why are we still paying for girls again?
Seriously, I never got this. It made sense before when girls didn't work and had no income. Now they're getting pipelined into the highest paying jobs, it's just illogical to keep paying. On top of that, why am I paying for your time? Is your time really that valuable that I have to pay to talk to you? If I were to go grab dinner with my best friend of 15 years, we would split the check. So why is it that I have to pay for some girl I just met who could be using me for free food and I never hear from her again?
Can we all just agree to stop paying and that way we'll all be better off? I swear it's coming from the finance/law/consulting guys who make bank so they don't care about throwing $30+ at a girl for a date. Let's work together on this and lower the expectations. I'm not in the office until 1AM to pay for someone's dinner.
I have a date in 5 minutes and I know this girl is going put up an attitude when I say to split the bill. Still gonna hit that though, just hate the attitude.
Just legacy gender expectations. It's ok to pay on the first date, but highly agree that by the 2nd or 3rd date, if she still doesn't offer to pay, then she basically views her time as more valuable than yours and it should be a red flag to leave. 1 big tip is to always do coffee dates on the first date because they are cheap and flexible. If you really hit it off, you can transition the date into a lunch or dinner depending on the time and if it goes horrible, just make an excuse to bounce.
I don't know man it's a pretty masculine thing to want to provide for and protect your girl even if she can for herself. Nobody says you need to be a bitch pay pig but I like taking my girl out on nice dates, paying for nails or a purse whatever she likes to look good. Like you make enough money, and if you date girls who are supposed to potentially be your wife - what do you lose out on being a generous for a couple dates? A couple hundred dollars? That might be hard if you work a minimum wage fast food job, but we're working professionals. Your retirement account won't miss that extra 500$ a month, so relax and make your girl feel pampered or something lol
Love the monkey shit as usual when you don’t repeat the childish beta male behavior. Either you’re a baller or you aren’t that’s okay lmao
its funny because when I first heard the term "beta" used it was to refer to "providers". Now we got the providers doing the mental gymnastics to say it's actually "alpha" to provide. What's actually "aLpHa" is providing zero resources/money other than your presence and the girl still loves being around you. She genuinely appreciates you and you provide so much value you don't have to pay for anything.
I don't need to bribe girls to hang out with me. The ones that want the bribes can go hang out with you, I already filtered them out it's cool.
the men who downvoted your post haven't been with anyone hot and just don't know how the real world works
by this logic, you can work for free and tell yourself that you're providing for your country and fellow countrymen (or for people of the world if you work in a global firm).
“bY tHiS lOGiC” bro it’s not that fucking deep? Why does it pain you so much to spend a little excess cash on a girl you supposedly like? If you think the girls you’re dating aren’t worth a $50 plate then maybe you should pick better women. Starting to think the guys on this thread hardly talk to any real women on a regular basis or didn’t have a good father figure in the home because this is bare minimum shit lol
Actually yes, your retirement account will absolutely miss years of compound growth at $500 a month lmao
Past performance doesn’t imply future performance. We have 0 clue what geopolitical challenges lie ahead for the US, the strength of the dollar, and the SPY in general. But assuming, all those things hold as previous and you get the 8-10% annualized rate of return, what are you going to do with that extra money at 55? You’ll be older, weaker, and may even have health problems from the years of long hours that hinder you from doing much. Only today is guaranteed for good health, and experiences. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t save for retirement, but you should realize your life is going to be a lot more slower paced then, so don’t expect to have the time of your life in your 50s and miss out on your 20s.
And this is precisely why you get no bitches lolol you’re lame if you cheap out on taking pretty girls on nice dates. You’ll find your people here but don’t be surprised when another “ohhh why can’t I find a girlfriend” thread pops up.
I'm guessing the type of girls OP is referring to are NOT the kind to want a man to "provide" or "protect".
your average 20-25 NYC hotgirl isn't looking for "protection" and a "provider"
she's looking for that juicy validation that comes from you paying for her dinner. It's even sweeter when she tells her friends all the free shit she got from guys that week. For some, it's better than sex (why she won't bang you after).
are we really at that level where we're LARPing that we're in some tribe protecting and providing for females by paying for $18 drinks at an overpriced rooftop?
All i can say is that I am a girl.. I do not have a single female friend who ever has or would split a bill or pay for flights, activities etc. Girls talk about this kind of thing to each other. Comes off as super desperate to share expenses with a man, unless the man in question is your gay roommate bff
Lmao at this kid paying for nails?? Anyway I pay because I mainly date college aged girls and the trade is understood (she delivers youth and looks and I the $$ and access). If I dated a professional woman closer to my age there’s 0% chance I’d pay for everything because that trade is fundamentally different.
what are you providing access to? In NYC a hot girl has access to just about everything (for free). Wouldn't these girls still be interested in you if it weren't for your cash? You could be trading looks and youth for experience and maturity. One of the main reasons I don't pay is to filter out those types of girls.
They do but it’s generally through (I) promoters most of whom are sleazy (beyond just keeps trying to fuck but more like might roofie you), (ii) significantly older guys eg 40-50+. So I’m able to target the niche of 18-23 year olds who want a still youngish in shape guy who’s 29-32 but has enough disposable income to take her out to nice places, bring along on Hamptons trips etc. It’s a tried and true value prop I’m sure many VPs / directors in your fund/firm do it. Nice thing is the competition is lower than expected because lot of folks around that age and in that demographic are married or seriously dating. I’m not interested in marriage till 36 at minimum.
If she's still in university or it's a super expensive place that was my idea I'll pay. If not, best be sure we're splitting unless I'm very interested. "Equality" and all the girl-power/independence stuff has its tradeoffs.
yeah I would never take a girl I just met to a super expensive place
you're digging your own grave there
I pay because it’s not a meaningful expense for me and not worth the hassle to try and split
“OMG why do women expect so much of me, this date cost me $50 more than if we split it!!! Her time isn’t as valuable as mine!!!”
Men who don't value their time or money over that of some random woman are called "simps"
You don't understand supply and demand. The constraints and sacrifices are real for a girl. Biologically let's say she has 10 years post college to earn for her own financial security.
These years will determine everything from chosing her husband to whether to have children. Why would she waste her time with a cheap skate like you?
Let's say its your daughter and she is top target. I can assure you yore.going to tell her to weed out cheap skates since there are no shortage of guys who don't have a problem paying for dinners and trips.
Myopic and selfish thinking is why ppl like you lose at the game of life.
I'm not cheap. When I show up to the date well-dressed (I can afford nice clothes), in-shape (I can afford a gym), tell her where I grew up (rich people town), and tell her about my life experiences (I can afford travel/hobbies/etc.) it's understood I'm not. I'm very cheap with people I don't know who are not in my circle. If I was a girl, I wouldn't want a guy wasting his resources and throwing money at a bunch of random girls every week. I love not paying because it filters out the short-sighted girls who have no patience or delayed gratification skills.
Girls just don't know how to play the long-game. They want to feel validated for 25 seconds when you pay the bill and then have the weekly competition with their friends to see who got the most free shit that week. It's basically an "I'm hotter than you" competition without saying "I'm hotter than you" so it's acceptable and fun for all involved.
Guys also don't know how to play the long-game. We'd have so much more leverage in the dating marketplace if we all just stopped paying. We could all be banging hotter girls, I promise there's enough for everybody. But no, pay for that girls dinner who would have fucked you anyway but you didn't have the confidence to not pay.
Also never heard of this competition between girls comparing who gets what? Maybe if the girls are 16 to 19 years old but even then prob not? Yes if you get great valentines gifts or go on an amazing trip etc, girls will tell each other but it is more in the sense of sharing something exciting and positive, not a ridiculous competition.
Girls talk about this subject because no one wants their best friend to end up with a cheap loser and then for her to realize it by the time she's 31 and engaged or pregnant etc...
This was up for a debate amongst my guys. Consensus was that the uglier (or less desirable in general) the guy is relative to the girl, the more he’d have to pay up to warrant her attention.
This is true. On the scale from "i pay when I take her out for dinner" to bitch pay pig the uglier guys always fall on the lay pig end and feel like they have to give up more money to keep the same girls attention. In that case I say guys should either fix their face / get jacked or be satisfied with the ugly girls
Wdym by fix face?
of course
you pay for someone's time when they are more valuable than you
you do not pay for an equal's lunch/dinner etc. unless it is a gesture of appreciation and is tacitly understood the other person will pay next time
Can't spring $30 for a date? Wow the recession is definitely hitting the finanace sector hard!
I'd just like to know how you can get a date to be only $30.. JFC my am cold brew and lunch salad costs more in midtown- especially if I spring for a Pelegríno with my salad.
oh man - it's not about the money
fuck if I made 1M a year I wouldn't pay
if you think it's only about money you've already lost
lool
I don't know what you're talking about. Women are paid 15% less then their male counterparts.
Many give up their career to raise a family. There's real opportunity cost there.
Are you seeing more women MDs and partners at your firm?
I’m not going to get into the merits of his argument, but just want to note that he is referring to dates/dating period. A better comparison would be analysts/associates. With diversity recruiting quotas, the class is usually 50/50 male/female these days. I’m also not too sure where you are getting the 15% haircut in pay because most reputable firms have a standardized pay grade based on position. Perhaps at boutiques that could occur where hiring is one-off, but otherwise I’m skeptical.
that guy was just repeating the same talking points from 2014 without doing any critical thinking lmao
makes sense that he would be the guy paying for dinners
yeah totally dude
when I did my internship at (G)oldman Sechs the girl interns all got paid 15% less
when they give up their career to have a family I'm paying for their expenses, and then when they divorce me they're getting half my money
investors are getting rewarded for their risk (some would say overly compensated)
not a single thing you said was actually valid
100% agree, but unfortunately can't make everybody else to stop paying, so if you stop paying, girls will think less of you and you'll just waste your time and don't get anything. it's a prisoner's dilemma. the right decision that would benefit all men would be not to pay, but nobody want to make the first move while others are still paying cause that will hurt their game outcome.
I think the tide is slowly turning
"simp" culture is now mainstream knowledge
we're almost there brother, I can feel it. One last push and we'll be free.
even if we get there it's like a monopoly. The sellers hold the price high but then one participant undercuts secretly to win all the business. In this case, the traitor is the guy paying for dinners to differentiate himself in a world where no one pays. Fuck man.
While this is one method to approach dating, it is not the only one. You’ve chosen a quantity mindset to dating. There are people who choose to date people from their existing social circle which is a quality mindset. There are pros and cons to each of course, but the point is you don’t have to spend money on a stranger if you don’t want to.
I do believe as a courtesy the guy should pay for the first date in full if he asked the girl out. You don’t to a family members house for thanksgiving and then they draft up a bill asking you to pay your share. Similarly, leave a good impression and pay for the first date since you asked her to go out. I actually think coffee dates/solely drinks are a bit disrespectful as the girl is naturally going to be hungry in the evening (and dates last several hours), but at the same time you don’t have to go all out and go to a 3 star Michelin on the first date. There’s a balance you have to strike between finding something that is satisfying, income constraints, and appropriate for the setting.
2+ dates on there’s no right answer. You will notice that those posters in this thread with more senior positions (and who have much more money) are saying to pay the dates in full and buy shoes/clothes for the girl. Those starting out though often have student loans to pay and may not have even had the first bonus hit yet. In such cases I think you should split and communicate to the girl that you have loans such as student loans you need to pay off. If girls don’t get it, then you should just move on. It’s best to be open and honest about your situation rather than trying to create a false illusion of being the Wolf on Wall Street as a lowly analyst. It will allow you to see if the girl actually is understanding or not . You can also factor in the girl’s pay into this as well
Your time argument doesn’t make a lot of sense. Fashion is big in NYC and models get paid to wear nice clothes and more or less exist at shows. There is a market to pay for a girl to be nicely dressed and exist at a certain place. You can use that argument as a minimum to justify some of the costs of date dinners, even if you don’t feel the emotional connection yet to see the girl as a long term partner.
And in case you are thinking I am a simp, I am not. If for example you invite a girl to a nice restaurant and she orders the most expensive course on the menu and wine, without even asking then you should try to get her to split and if not move on (obviously important to do some DD on the place you are going to before this). If she never shows any appreciation or gratitude and feels entitled to constant free food, then again this raises alarm. If she calls you a cheapskate because many of your intermediate dates are at a more reasonably priced restaurant that you can afford given your financial situation, you should again avoid. At the same time don’t invite her for dinner and only order her an appetizer.
TLDR: Paying for dinner dates requires balance based on a variety of factors, and people pay for varying reasons. You should always pay the first one in full if you ask her out.
I have no problem investing in a girl who has invested in me. I was seeing this girl and I got super sick (flu or whatever) and she took care of me at her place. You have to reward that kind of behavior.
I'm not going on dates with models. I'm going on dates with soft to hard 7's who went to respectable semi-target schools but studied some bullshit major. You know who I'm talking about. These girls are hot but they're definitely not getting paid to exist at fashion shows. A fashion show is super intense in terms of preparation/rehearsal and diet, that's why they're getting paid. They don't really make any money. It's just a cool way to travel the world, party for free, and get free designer clothes that cost $1.50 to make in China.
Social circle dating is great (and super easy), but man how big is your social circle? I've seen that stuff play out and after a couple years everybody in the circle has banged everybody and now your best "friend" is banging your ex or that girl you were into. I'm also a pretty private guy and don't want people I hang out with knowing the details of my sex life, nor do I want to see my girlfriend every time I want to see my friends.
I think I get away with it because it's obvious I'm not a broke dude. I make good money and I'm dressed well. Once we've built a mutual connection and invested in each other organically, no problem to spend and nurture that connection. Encourage the long-game my friend.
reward that kind of behavior? what is this pavlov and his dogs? lol. society going downhill fast
What do you think about tapas / appetizers as a first date?
If you take a girl on a dinner date she is 100% viewing you as a beta dork free meal ticket.
When I was single had a hard and fast rule - never buy a meal for a girl until you're fucking her. No one gets wet over dinner. It's sterile, predictable, and absolutely doesnt move the needle.
Masculine traits to display when dating can be providership, sure. But it's also excitement, assertiveness, planning, control, etc. You can do all this without $$$, you just have to be creative which goes against 90% of mens experience because most men suck ass at dating.
Do laugh when chicks tell me about the restaurants they force a first date guy to go on lmao
Two things can be true at once. What you just described can be a beta move and and taking a girl to dinner where you pick the restaurant based on your budget can be perfectly reasonable.
Dinners are not necessarily stereotypical in the way you make it to be. There are many experiential dining establishments that provide an experience outside of just straight food. Obviously those cost more, but then again you get what you pay for in life.
Finally. the idea that you have to take a random girl on a date is completely ridiculous. People take their friends on dates as well. Would you never buy a friend a meal?
if you take a girl on a 'experiential' dining experience and that experience isn't you making food together and then fucking her - you're doing it wrong period.
That's not the shit you pull on an early date
What's your go-to for a first date? Drinks are the most obvious one, but I'm wondering if there's another option (definitely not doing food of any kind). Guess coffee could be fine too, just not very interesting
Maybe museum, lots of opportunity to talk without having to stare at each other since y’all walking next to each other (bit awkward on a first date)
100% on the money. Never do lunch or dinner dates, especially as the first one. If you want to do food, keep it simple like ice cream or something. Going to a fancy restaurant for a first date before you're banging is asking for being used as a human wallet
If you took your absolute dream girl out to dinner (megan fox, blake lively, etc idk whoever), would you ask her to split the bill too?
lets be real bro
any girl that actually cares about the bill will not sleep with you when you say you aint paying lol
eh some girls actually respect it. It's an easy way to differentiate yourself, for better or worse.
to give you an extreme example, you ever hear of a hate fuck?
Some girls try to pay their part of the bill if they want nothing to do with you (date going wrong)
Most guys are the ones who ask the a girl out on a first date, so it kind of makes sense for the guy to pay. After the first date, it makes much more to split the bill. I think part of this depends on the balance of power in the looks department. If you are dating up in looks, you are likely going to be paying up. If you are comparable in looks, you should split the bill. Women fought for equal rights, which should include the right to pay for dates.
as you said, paying the bill is just compensating for something
when I go out to lunch with my coworkers, even when I suggest the place, I don't pay for them. We are equals and respect each other. If I invited someone out to lunch who was above me and clearly had better things to do then hang out with me - I would compensate and buy their lunch to make up for it.
fundamentally, I feel like I would be putting myself below girls if I paid for them, for the reason above. I don't feel like I'm below them, so it doesn't make sense to my brain to pay. The thought never even enters my mind. Even if she's "hotter" than me, I've still accomplished things, I'm still an interesting dude. My value isn't 100% my looks.
No wonder there are so many virgins on WSO. Their entire personality revolves around prestige and "high finance" but they squabble with girls over paying for dates.
B
If this is very important to you, I think the trick is to improve your ability to filter out girls before you ask them out on dates. I’m pretty darn selective about who I ask out on a date, but I’ve never once had a situation where the girl didn’t offer to split 50/50 or absolutely insist on paying for the 2nd or 3rd date (whatever the activity may be, a meal / event / anything). I consider myself a pretty good judge of character, but I also think it can be pretty darn obvious when a girl has the personality where she expects the guy to pay her way. If you’re dating with the intention of finding a long-term partner, you need to stay away from the girls that are 8/9/10 unless you are a smoke show yourself.
Dolores in voluptate est assumenda nobis quis. Praesentium quis et sed est aut.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Dolor natus iste similique sit at. Vero soluta qui omnis aliquam consequatur. Voluptatum incidunt numquam voluptates dolores. Non qui sunt sint eaque quo.
Possimus doloribus omnis in omnis facilis. Veritatis soluta est aut qui autem id. Voluptatem laborum omnis ut odit soluta. Voluptatem qui consequatur beatae. Corrupti nesciunt voluptatum sint et quam ab sequi provident. Error enim reiciendis cumque molestias fuga commodi beatae debitis.
Neque excepturi doloribus est est quo. Pariatur repellat quo ducimus autem est. Optio id cumque soluta non velit.
Voluptas ratione eum soluta ut odit quidem. Neque voluptas unde hic atque et ratione. Dolores occaecati commodi consequatur quasi harum consequatur.
Illo fuga dignissimos iusto et. Molestiae exercitationem deserunt rerum sit ratione. Vero ea iste iure voluptatem. Qui unde sequi voluptatem et quis. Consequatur nobis quos eligendi ea officia. Sed suscipit dolore unde optio incidunt.
Omnis ut expedita sed non sapiente. Eum qui magnam praesentium error sunt quibusdam. Quisquam voluptas at ex commodi repellat. Optio magni expedita et. Aliquam qui corporis sint aspernatur quia fuga fuga eaque.
Non est est illo eum odit delectus ex. Atque rerum repellendus suscipit incidunt omnis. Voluptas itaque molestiae aut ipsam. Dolore nihil nisi est voluptate mollitia. Molestiae distinctio perferendis dolorem unde. Omnis nemo corporis eius eius ut quidem facilis perferendis.