Seriously, I feel like any of the reasons I can think of to do the higher demanding work end up being meaningless in the long run. Any interesting takes would be appreciated, but here are the problems I find with common reasons:
- "I do it for the money so I can do X hobby or club/drink"
- The issue with this is that is short term and it is an equation around time and money. You can work a much less stressful job but then have more time to do those hobbies and just go to cheaper places. If you truly find meaning out of getting bottle service or traveling places for a week to only be stressed again I don't know how anyone can see that as long term happiness as you are simply burning yourself for enjoyment that wont be there in your 50s/60s.
- "I do it to support my family / gain generational wealth"
- While a noble goal, I think the current systems of wealth inequality show that there are not only better ways to generate wealth for you but also that wealth is relative. You can be one of the richest people in a small pond if you want to, but in the long run others will be far wealthier than you and things are only getting more expensive and competitive. Not to mention there is no guarantee your family will use that wealth wisely and people die anyway.
- "I do it to retire early"
- So you will burn yourself so hard you can retire at 45, but in that case you likely will have little friends or family given you had to work so hard and your health will likely deteriorate because of this, so really you will only get 10 years of legitimate healthy enjoyment before old age hits and you cant even do things with your money. 30 years of work for 10 years does not seem like a good math equation to me.
- "I do it to be involved in big things and to have a seat at the table"
- Your role is so insignificant that unless you can have the patience to eventually get to an MD or Principal level you really won't have any impact for the majority of your career. Even if you founded a firm and became influential, there are maybe 20-40 funds on the planet that have global influence, and those often times are limited to political intervention. Also, the work you are influencing is not exactly volunteer feel good work either. You are having the seat at the table of money movers which can potentially be categorized as bad influence.
- "I do it to be around smart people and have intellectual work"
- Those who work in finance know that many people are not that smart, and often times the conversation revolves around how to get the highest fee or at best most profit. You are not having philosophical debates about the role of the financial services industry every day. There are far smarter and more diverse people in other fields that are not raging hardos or only care about cash. Even financial research is better in this way.
- "I do it for short term money to then attempt to pivot away later by making money off of investments so I can quit really early"
- Ok, great. However you end up spending so much of that income on living expenses in a Tier 1 city, eating out, coffee runs, etc. just to operate in that job. Unless you are one of the rare few who can be monks and truly stack cash this likely will not work, and the amount of capital needed for truly freeing enterprises like personal real estate investing, day trading, etc. is so high and revolves around the first investments not being nuked its much more of a luck game than skill.
- "I do it as it is prestigious and makes me feel good"
- I don't even need to explain how sad this is.
- "I do it as I made this choice in my earlier adolescence and I have already gained enough skill to keep going"
- Is that what life really is about? Just walking forward with no active thought? You can do stuff like corporate finance for parks or cities, private wealth management in aims to help families, etc. but you chose to stay corporate due to sunken cost? I get it if unfortunately you debt trapped yourself with a mortgage, car payment, and expensive family but man thats sad
Any other major reasons would be appreciated. I truly want to understand as I am having a tough time truly justifying this meaningless job and existence.
Because I would prefer not to be homeless and living on the streets.
You can clearly not be homeless on a more normal job. Unless your version of homeless is anything but a penthouse apartment. Many great jobs exist that pay 200k (working for a city in finance, university administrators, etc).
you worry that front office finance is meaningless unless you're an MD and then list a university administrator as a 'great' job as an alternative... LOL. I truly can't think of a more meaningless job than a university admin. The closest occupation to being a literal vampire sucking the blood from the young in the form of 50k per year tuition for a meaningless degree so the admins can pay themselves ridiculous salaries and build ostentatious admin offices. I realize i did not respond to your question, but I felt the need to display my utter contempt for university admins. carry on.
one of these things is not like the other. As mentioned, the hugely inflated bureaucracy of modern American universities is insane, and one of the reasons we pay so much (on top of a lot of college sports, many of which do not actually add anything to a school's bottom line outside of the usual suspects).
If your motivation to work was just to avoid being homeless, why not work at Costco instead? They have good benefits.
What? That sounds terrible. And I don't think they would pay enough money to get by. Plus, I value flexibility in a job and am still helping to take care of my parents. I have a good WFH job right now. I also would like to make a lot of money some day and I don't think Costco has upward mobility. Unless you're talking about a store manager position, which is something I wouldn't want to do.
I'm right there with you. I see some of my friends/acquaintances from high school doing stuff like building a pest control business, or pool servicing, plumber, etc., and making as much or nearly as much as I do with WAY more free time. I don't know what the point is.
LOL to pay my bills, debts, and not eat ramen every night for dinner. Duh.
Also, your comments seem very defeatist. Believing you've lost before you've already even tried.
You know damn well you dont need this kind of job to do that. Unless you have 250k+ debt in which case you could have prevented that by delaying college or not going. You can most definitely pay your bills with a different job unless your standards say you MUST live in midtown NYC or any other super high cost place in which case get your priorities right.
On defeatism, sure I can see that. But as I have actually worked in finance I have indeed tried and been defeated. Call me a loser all you want but I saw how bullshit this all is.
Midtown? haha ok
OP if you feel this strongly just quit. Everyone has their own reasons for working these type of jobs - there isn't one rationale superior to all others.
I know, I just truly am hoping to hear a sustainable, logical reason for why people do this.
Also, I did quit, just trying to see if there is any good purpose to potentially joining again.
How many years work experience do you have? How big is your career gap?
If you quit it sounds like you already rationalized why you don't want to work in banking. I think there are a lot of people that have great situations in banking and can easily push back against your points. I remember there was a post about a private credit VP that was clearing 350k working like 25 hrs a week - I bet a position like that would easily punch a bunch of holes in your logic
I think everyone goes into banking for the money. The only thing that differs is the purpose of the money (ie. high lifestyle, supporting family, retiring early, etc)
Simple one from me, I just like what I do
What else am I gonna do? Work out for 3 hours a day, sleep 8 hours, maybe watch a movie. Add a 1-hour walk. 14 hours. I have 10 hours left. Take out the 2 hour movie and that’s 12 hours of the day. Might as well work and make money so one day I can do stuff that I like (traveling and staying at nice hotels, helicopter tours, renting ATV’s in Santorini, etc.).
Got nothing better to do honestly. If I already waste my life away, might as well earn some $ bills
Why do people fall in love, have sex, or marry?
It's just chemicals in your brain, and temporary pleasure.
Why even live?
Everyone is going to die sooner or later anyways.
You can rationalize anything if you set your mind to it. Work and goals give people meaning and purpose, and if you've ever experienced poverty, you'd know it's much better to have money.
People choose finance because they want: money, prestige, to support their current/future families, to be around intelligent and driven people, to retire early, because they enjoy career progression, because they grinded throughout their entire lives and this is a way to reap the rewards, etc.
To do good works for others.
Nothing there's no point. We all may as well just be immoral, live on the streets, and go back to a caveman society
Sounds pretty athiest.
OP clearly you aren't passionate about your work. Consider quitting and finding something else. It's very easy to make 6 figures (~$120k - $300k) doing something you love.
The cofounder I did my first co with that did ok sold his equity and does some weird mindfulness coaching thing. He is really passionate about it and somehow he is making ~$20k - 40k a month doing it.
Point being, if you love something, you can usually find a way to make quite a bit off it assuming you are reasonably intelligent.
How did he reach enough people to pay him to earn that much per month?
Because I want to fit in.
I need to stay at the gstaad palace or a slopeside chalet in courchevel on vaca, at the missoni room at Byblos when in St tropez, rent a farmhouse in Ibiza, spend august on a boat in the western Mediterranean etc. How am I supposed to fund that?
Let's compare alternatives:
1. You work 12-14 hours a day and make $300k. You can retire or semi-retire (move to chill/remote job or negotiate with an employer to work half a year each year) in your 30s and travel the world and bang chicks.
2. You work 8 hours a day and make $80k. You'll need to work your whole life (into 60s). But now you can work out, cook/go out for dinner instead of getting a delivery, and watch a movie before bed. Is it worth it?
I really do think there is a nice middle where you don't have to work 12-14 hours a day and can clear 200k and be nicely upper middle class
agree. that's where I'm at :)
just saying that if you have to choose between the two above, the first option may actually look more attractive, despite having grueling hours.
Two extremes and scenario 1 doesn’t square with any reality I’ve seen…most people I know in finance are still working until they die no matter how high up they go. Think it’s safe to say that people generally don’t get truly “rich” in this industry anymore, in the sense of making work optional at a certain point. You’re just upper middle class with maybe a nicer house and car if you’re into those things. If not, then you’re in the same spot as the $200k person.
so you're looking at old people working and think that old people don't retire? fly to places like Thailand and you'll see people in their 30s who are retired. you won't see them while you're working cause they're retired.
Agreed here that finance doesn't make people truly rich anymore (with rare exceptions)...we can get to upper middle class but generally that's where we top out. The days of pre-financial crisis (80s, 90s, 2000s) where a HF PM makes $100ml in a year or an AM PM at Fidelity makes $10ml a year are gone...very sad to say because the investors of today are almost undoubtedly better / sharper / smarter than the investors of 30-40yrs ago. Yet the game's only gotten harder and it's a race to the bottom
It's more of an emotional thing, you know?
"The wealth required by nature is limited and is easy to procure; but the wealth required by vain ideals extends to infinity.” - Epicurus
OP out here giving out highfalutin reasons for work. All I want is just to not starve and live in a sh*thole.
"Like a river flowing ceaselessly towards the vast ocean, we strive to navigate the terrain of life, our purpose not merely to traverse the land, but to refine our course through wisdom and virtue. As the water shapes the rocks, molds the earth, and nourishes the flora and fauna, shall we not too shape ourselves into the epitome of our potential?
Ponder this: Have you been brought into existence solely to bask in the comforts of a stagnant pool, or is it your nature to surge forward, facing the rapids and cascading waterfalls, embracing the journey that unfolds your true character? Can you not see the trees, the animals, and the forces of nature working harmoniously to preserve the balance of the world? Are you unwilling to embark on the quest that your human nature calls for, to sculpt the marble of your soul and reveal the virtue hidden within?"
Why did you quote yourself? Or why did you not state the author of the quote?
I like reason #6 as a decent logic for doing demanding work. And your rebuttal is fair too, but it’s pretty fatalistic to just assume that the big city is going to impose a certain lifestyle on you. There are ways to fight back . . fight & scratch for that cheaper apartment, skip the coffee runs, and apply the “if it’s not a hell yes, it’s a no” rule to social plans.
And the same goes for how much money you need afterward to in order to support yourself. Again, fight back on society’s assumptions about what you “need” in order to live. There are no needs, only choices. Someone says they “need” a certain expense item, but do they need it more than they need their freedom? Maybe not.
I wish one of you pussies whining every other day about banking would actually quit and go work at a surf club in hawaii or try to be an artist or whatever your “meaningful” job is and then see how fun it is to struggle financially through life.
If you hate the job so much, why don’t you leave instead of making a whiny post about it.
Do something if you hate finance so much. Then, when you realize 95% of jobs suck AND the pay sucks, you can come back here and make a post asking if anyone is hiring.
haha agreed
Lmao dead
and then when the surf club in hawaii doesn't work out, you write a blog:
https://fortune.com/2023/04/09/early-retiree-fire-movement-returns-to-w…
https://www.financialsamurai.com/sadly-giving-up-on-retirement-and-goin…
quote from his blog
I can't say that I disagree with all of his ideals because I think he understands very well that family and health are more important than living in luxury, but I think he misses the point of finding balance rather than thinking you're either working all the time or you're 100% retired
Double
Bc I have expensive habits (coke) and the commies took my family’s wealth so I gotta work now
based
username checks out
How much do you pay per month for your coke habit?
Sounds like you're in a tough place right now. I can empathize here. I really enjoy my job (LO equity research) but my boss is an absolute tool and I'm trying to leave. I used to come in really happy to get into work, these days it's a slog. And while there are more 'annoying' functions at work I've had to take on as I've gotten slightly more senior, that's not enough to move the needle on my happiness -- my boss has single-handedly made this job a 'job' vs. a place I love to come in to & engage with really sharp people.
For me the solution is leaving. Tough economy right now unfortunately but I finally have what I need (sufficient years of experience, CFA) in order to get out -- so just hoping something pops up. I'm bringing all this up because you need to find out what it is that's making you unhappy -- your job function itself, your boss, the nature of the hours, etc...and once you identify, course correct.
You hate the 70+hr weeks? Check out other parts of finance (corp fin, AM, etc)
You hate finance generally? I kind of wish I did because then I'd go work for a tech company where perks are unreal (4-6 weeks of vacation a year, 200-250k for working a 9-5, free gym or food or whatever, etc)
You hate your boss? Make all the preparations you need to leave
I truly do wish you the best of luck
This is the stupidest non-satire post I’ve seen on WSO
Bcs I enjoy my job, it brings me enough money for living the life that I wont (hobbies like traveling, for example, now in Bali tour, comfort around) and I can help my family
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