WSO Advice is 98% Horseshit
This post goes to any Freshman or Sophomore in college looking to recruit for jobs in the business world.
If you're on WSO, then I probably know the type. You're not a woman. You're (probably) not a person of color (well, you're either White, Asian, or South Asian. I'm not wrong), or you are, but you've come through a diversity program (no hate, awesome way to enter!). You're probably, 80% chance, gifted, bright individual that wants to make a lot of money. No harm in that dream, everyone in a rational economy wants that! So, your logical next step is a career in business.
Well, you quickly realize that there are only like 3 jobs out of school, with only an undergrad degree, that will pay more than 6 figures. This, of course, you read from the gods of WSO, reddit, but for egotistical white guys, Investment Banking, Consulting, or those few *sexy* buyside roles in a Hedge Fund or a Private Equity shop that have like 8000 Asian CS kids and Brads lining up. You, from Ball State University, aren't even in the running. The other jobs, which, you think, are practically janitorial by comparison. FP&A. Audit. Sales. Marketing. Operations. Treasury. Insurance. LMM banks. Asset Management. Back-office functions.
Main WSO forums will have you believe that there is one path to success in life. This is that path.
Do well in HS (also, like, love finance at age 5) ---> get into a top undergrad program ---> start networking for Investment Banking or Consulting (the only two careers remember) --> Do your investment banking internship sophomore year, then MMB consulting junior year (also be a part of 100 clubs, travel the world, and get a girlfriend) --> get your full time offer at Goldman Sachs --> Start recruiting IMMEDIATELY for PE --> get into Apollo--> Fire People --> Realize there's no hope and life is nothing but a massive machine of working 100 hours a week --> Go MBA program (HBS is the only school)--> Join another PE firm (or HF, doesn't really matter) --> become scrooge mcduck --> get divorced --> realize money doesn't actually matter and you're fifty, with no connection to your family--> move to a university and become a lecturer--> find happiness????
THIS IS THE DREAM. THIS IS THE WAY. And if we're talking about consulting, just change Goldman with BCG and change PE with a strategy group at Capital One (or whatever you guys do).
WSO will have you believe these tenets:
- Prestige is everything
- If you didn't go to a Target, you're fucked, and, your stupid/lazy
- If you went to a target, you're entitled, and you have everything going for you
- Money is everything (comp is what we like to call it)
- IB, Consulting, and the GLORIOUS buy side (not endowments, insurance, pensions, or wealth funds LOL) are the only careers worth having (fuck marketing, let alone being a lawyer or a doctor)
- You're late to the party, you know nothing, and any career not in these fields is doomed.
- You're first job is everything: if you don't go to one of these three fields, you can kiss any sort of really success goodbye
- You should always know about every path in Finance and have your career laid out 15 years in advance (it worked for Mao, so obviously it will work for me)
Does anyone see how FUCKING STUPID THIS MINDSET IS?
First, let's look at the glorious life path. You'd have to have had perfect grades in HS. Parents, that supported the T1 university stint, AND have the financial wherewithal to take on either A. Mountains of Debt B. Be Rich enough that it doesn't matter C. Be so poor that the chances of doing all the great things is near impossible (Compton High School sent like one kid to Harvard). Okay, so even then, only like 15% will actually GET INTO the top schools. Right away, through little fault of the student, if you're at a non-target, you're competing in a recruiting game on a horse next to formula-one cars. It's not a fair fight.
So, you get into the near-impossible University, then, you have to have PERFECT information and know that IB is EXACTLY what you wanted the WHOLE TIME. You take easy classes to pad the resume, and get into the exact right club. You get the interviews, and then, by stroke of luck and your arm sweat (the MD is a grad and you both LOVE the XXX team), get the internship that only 1 in 50000000000 get. If you're at a non-target, who cares if you'd actually LIKE banking. You have so many calls to do that it doesn't matter.
So many things had to go right, so many things needed to go their way, so many extraneous things. Point is, people in college (unless they like, start a business, write a book, do something REALLY impactful) are all copies. No one at HARVARD's economics program that is applying for IB is fundamentally SMARTER then the kid at OSU. It's a broken system, but WSO makes you believe that it's YOUR FAULT, that because one kid from OSU or insert state school here got into Apollo that then makes you a failure.
Most of recruitment is luck, pedigree, and networking. Period. Once you're in the interview room, you have so little power. When a firm has 1000 applicants for two spots, the game is rigged. You're in a casino that usually loses but tells you that you didn't win poker because you weren't smart enough. Obviously, we make mistakes. Obviously, you miss a technical, and that sucks. But that doesn't mean you're not worthy. Unless you're at Citadel or a Quant, nothing in Finance is rocket science. You're not an idiot: you're playing in a Casino that makes you think the reason you're losing is because you suck.
Truth is that this website is full of idiot College students who have nothing better to do but stroke egos about jobs and fucking prestige. I say this, knowing full well I'm about to sign for a buy-side role at an insurance company, not exactly the sexiest form of Investing out there. I get it. I'm a hypocrite, the guy outside the frat party saying that the frat sucks and is so uncool even though he'd gladly step in if only one of the WSO gods would let him in.
Use WSO for the company database, but stay the HELL away from forums. They'll screw you up. I've done almost 250 calls in 9 months. Buy side, Sell Side. There's pretty much no job function I HAVEN'T spoken to. They all refute the WSO crap, and I've never ONCE heard an MD rave about WSO.
There's more to life than a stupid job, and there's more than three ways to be successful in life. Break yourself from the limiting chains of online forums, prestige dick-measuring, comp wet dreams and make a non-target (or target) dent in the universe!
tldr?
delete
WSO is putting on a pedestal IB/PE/HF and the general advice is that you need to prepare starting from kindergarten for IB, otherwise, you're late. Hmmm, what else, that some people had a lot of luck in getting into targets and thus the advice they give are not applicable to someone from a non-target. That target kids think they're smarter than others, when in fact, there is no difference, they just had opportunities and money to do the extracurricular that put them there (Compton HS only sent 1 kid to Harvard). And that's it, basically take no advice from WSO because it's full of college students and prestige-oriented people that will only lead you into a depressive path.
so basically what everyone already knows about WSO
We only talk about IB and PE because this forum is called Wall Street Oasis. Do doctors and authors work on Wall Street? Rest of your stuff is too long and don’t have time to read pls fix.
Also the average Harvard Econ student is probably smarter than insert no name target non target Econ student.
True - run your own race.
Aint reading all that
The average kid as OSU is as smart as the average kid at Harvard?
Praying for the downfall of WSO 🙏
I ain’t reading all that.
I’m happy for you though
or sorry that happened
Initially I MS’d this post because it uses too many absolutes and hyperboles, and because I didn’t agree with a few statements or opinions presented.
However, after rereading, I find that I agree with the general sentiment expressed here and empathize with your frustration regarding the forum and industry. I do find that you have a lot of good points scattered across your post.
Some aspects of this site that I find frustrating include:
- Narrow-mindedness among many users and prospects, who don’t always consider alternative perspectives or career paths. To me, there are many paths that can potentially work for one’s career; it’s not limited to solely one path, it’s not linear, and you’re not any lesser just because you didn’t choose one path over another
- Excessive negativity: certain roles or backgrounds, whether they’re seemingly prestigious or unprestigious, get trashed on regardless, as there’s often people who believes your background or role isn’t ideal based on their preconceived notions / mental frameworks
- Overall, compared to several years ago, posts and comments are now generally less helpful, with many contributions consisting of troll or monkeybot responses, rather than of meaningful discussions or helpful advice
- The tendency for odd, absurd, or irrelevant sounding posts to receive high volumes of serious responses and advice (example: why do people care if a person can have an RV in nyc?)
The above may not even encompass all my opinions, but they have contributed to my diminished usage of the forum.
Agreed that many posts now have a lot of useless commentary and focus on random discussion topics. There’s also a lot of repeat posts because for some reason people are too lazy to do a quick search and would rather create a new post every time they have a question.
I do come across some helpful advice however, it’s not all spam
I can't focus reading that. Can you add subway surfers footage to this pls, thnx
We should do that for current IB analysts. Analysts will now have Subway Surfers running in a corner of the screen or their favorite Twitch thot. Exhaustion reduced by -90% and attention increased by +130%. Just imagine the productivity, the possibilities, the shareholder value...
Yes, the site has negative psychological aspects to it but I’d say from a career perspective and niche knowledge view point, it’s a net positive to many people. The career and job advice people share mostly rings true up until you run into mid career commentary from unqualified individuals who are junior or ones who try too hard to generalize their experience. Moreover, there are a ton of fantastic posts and comments from industry insiders that you would be hard pressed to find anywhere else. For example, economics of a specific compensation contract was recently discussed which will help me negotiate my own. A classic one was by Bondarb who described how the market was going to collapse prior to the GFC as a trader at a major bank.
Social media breeds some of the worst behaviors and thought patterns, and the fact that we are anonymous removes all consequences of our words, so don’t mistake that WSO isn’t a form social media with all its negative externalities.
I think a lot of what you stated is valid but your conclusion in avoiding the forums is an overreaction. The caution should be to not internalize the negative aspects of WSO and to use valuable information on here to your benefit.
I think that WSO provide instruments, it’s you that you have to decide how to use it
Insecure kid who didn't get sellside or PE ranting about WSO is hilarious (congrats though on insurance firm, good comp/WLB and a seat most stay in forever)
I want a Monkey Bot response to that wall of text.
Come to a website focused on IB and get mad that people focus on IB.
Logic level: 0.
I wish I had WSO in college, but it wasn’t around then. I would have known how important internships are for IB roles. I took courses year round for 4 years and studied abroad twice instead of internships. I got a good management consulting job after graduation so it all worked out I guess. I still interviewed for IB roles after graduation and only received one offer which was rescinded.
I did have a blast studying abroad though and my second time was sponsored by my school through the Honors college to try to get a Fulbright.
So I don’t think it’s 98% horseshit. When I was in college, all I had was the Top 50 Banking Firms by Vault and stories from alumni as well as finance books.
I think the subject line and initial paragraphs are clickbait but agree with the concluding thoughts and general takeaways
The forum does have lot of overly negative and narrow minded sentiment. Possibly because It’s full of angsty college students / prospects chasing prestige + miserable analysts who are both jaded and disillusioned by the jobs they worked so hard for.
There is definitely plenty of good insight on the forum, and this would’ve been a great site for advice while recruiting, but we’re probably better off spending significantly less time on here after starting our FT jobs if we prioritize our mental health and sanity lol
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