How late do you work?
Recruiting for PE because can't see myself sustaining the lifestyle in banking, my associates, VPs and even some MDs are working late into the night 12am-2am every day.
Do you work this late in PE every day? Can't see how this is sustainable long term. Are there any firms out there that don't work past 10pm consistently?
It really depends on your staffing - if you are on a deal, you can expect banking hours or worse (have also pulled ~2 weeks of 3-4 am's while I was running the model in late stages), with no time for anything else in your life. If you are not on a deal, it varies significantly based on how intense your team is, but I'd say a 7-10 pm on Mon-Thu and 5-6 pm on Fridays with limited if any weekend work is typical.
Would echo. If not on model you can "unplug" by 1-2am hopefully but agree no time for anything else.
Off deal life is quite relaxed. Granted Im 5 years into my PE career. Associates have it worse.
Can others confirm? This sounds like a dream..
We're distributed and my fund is chill so I log in about 8:00am-ish and I log off about 4:00pm-ish, more if there's a live deal going on, and less if I have everything done. Have only worked once during the weekend, and Fridays are usually done at 2pm.
fund size?
Lol guess
It's small, LMM
Mon-Fri: 8:30am-6pm + logging on from home after if busy deal work.
Weekend work if multiple active deals with tight deadlines.
All this is definitely much better than banking hours, but the work is definitely more intellectually strenuous. Fun, but much more critical thinking used.
First 2 months on the job, found myself as tired as banking despite leaving office @ 7-8pm vs 3am. But after year plus developing investor mindset & growing my business acumen in this role, I look back at my banking days and wonder how it took our team so long to get a CIM, model, and data pack out for processes. My job requires me at times to pull together IC memo, Initial Model, and analysis pack together for 2-3 companies in a week at times.
What do you think are the biggest areas you’ve become more efficient on wrt pulling together models / deal materials?
#1 has been getting smarter / more sharp on industry and business models.
My shop takes a thematic approach & we'll dig into 4-5 top players per (sub)sector/theme we dive into, many of which the models, KPIs we hold them to, industry wide operational challenges are very comparable. After a deep dive into one of the businesses, the rest take much less time and you can get straight to the point on analyses and at times start to even envision in your head (during the first call) what the financial model will look like before you even build it. That's just being specific. On a more general basis with this done across more and more industry subsectors, these learnings become pattern recognition that just helps an associate cut straight to the point on almost everything across the board when it comes to diligence / analysis. Banking did a good job at giving me the technical skills on building really robust presentations, analyses, models, but I was less efficient then and there were tons of bottlenecks in deal team + client during sell-side processes that I was way too busy to really build the business acumen / investor mindset that makes all the work that much more efficient and targeted.
#2 The good ole good ole classic - "Reps"
When we're taking a deal to IC, the work / diligence / analyses become as rigorous if not more rigorous than banking, but those are 1 in every maybe 10-20 deals we "dig" into. We'll look at 2-3 companies per week (meaning open up their dataroom to take a look). Only a quarter of these do I build models for, but at minimum I'll spread some of the analyses, do some back & forth with the CEO / CFO on initial questions, but eventually pass on the deal. These are still a TON of reps where I'm at least at an 80% level of understanding the story of the business (this doesn't mean just knowing what they do, this means getting to a conclusion on where I think the business will go). This builds on that pattern recognition mentioned above. You're probably thinking how does that not add up to 100 hrs / week for me? This is the good thing about the buyside, I race to get to a conclusion on why it's not a deal for us and the deal dies. Regardless, the benefits I get on improved efficiency growth with each rep.
#3 Less so of a point, but Investor Network
Most of the deals we do are growth equity vs full buyout, so a large number of deals we are just taking a minority steak in the business. This opens up a whole wealth of industry resources as it's not a winner take all in the investor peer universe. Meaning I don't have to worry a ton about competing with "competitor" firms when we can just partner on the deal. I can reach out a number of associates, many of which are looking at the same deals I am, and get cliff notes on those I'm interested in. "Don't dig in to much to XXX, they've got a big churn problem."; "Were going pencils down, valuation expectations are too high"; "We held a customer call that said xxx negative thing about them, because of that we're passing" - All these are monumental nuggets of info that cut my work on IC memos down to get straight to the answer that I want to relay to committee. Many times, these associates have already passed on the deal so don't care to let us know why.
Associate 1 here. I try to leave the office by 7pm everyday. On call for the rest of the evening if any urgent deliverables, but otherwise I try to enjoy my night without thinking about work. If closing a deal however then the hours can get pretty bad
is this UMM, MM, or MF fund
$3-5bn latest fund
Similar to the others, most nights I get off around 7-8pm and only log on from home if something comes up. Fridays usually out by 5pm. Rarely have weekend work off-deal other than sometimes reading some CIMs.
When running on a deal typically getting done more like 8-10pm and then later when deadlines start to get real tight before IC meetings. Usually that means a 2 week period before final IC of grinding with a couple of 2am+ nights.
is this UMM, MM, or MF fund
MM/LMM - investing out of $700mm fund
I am assuming none of the above are MFs? Would say quiet periods is more like working till 10-11pm here.
Is this for associates? Are analyst hours similar to this or do they tend to work longer?
Yeah no way all of those are MF
Glad to see a lot of you guys have pretty chill hours. I'm typically working til 9-10 M-Th. (+/- 2 hours) when not in deep 2nd round DD processes, then its all hands on deck consistently midnight or later, and crunch time all-nighters leading up to IC's. Friday usually off by 7ish. weekends hit or miss, sometimes a few hours Sat/Sun or nothing at all. Overall much better than banking i would say, but definitely feel like I'm on the higher end hourswise to a lot of my peers.
is this UMM, MM, or MF fund
MM, 750mm latest raise.
sounds apollo-esque
AVP, MF. Agree with general consensus up above. Depending on your level of a) involvement and b) managerial relation in a live deal, expect your hours to vary. While the title 'AVP' sounds like a formal VP position, still a bit more grunt work than a true Vice. Somewhere in between SR-ASO & VP, leaning heavier towards the former.
Regardless, I can structure my hours according to my team's involvement in certain projects. While the true quantity of time I spend at the office goes down, the quality of work I must produce and the net effort output greatly increases - as it does with any bump in promotional placement. I'd say I'm usually in by 7:30-8a, out by 6:30p max M-F. Virtually zero commitment is needed on weekends, but will have to pop in on a 30-60m call usually once. The important thing for me is flexibility, and I now have a lot more say in little expenditures that may come up. If I want to head out Friday around 2-3p, no one will push back.
wow you really write like you work at a MF
You are in credit or secondaries right? Pretty attractive WLB
Looks like he’s in real estate private equity based on post history.
wtf is "promotional placement"
Surprised to hear about these hours considering that most people on here seem to be of the opinion that large-cap PE is Banking 2.0. Seems like there is a major improvement in WLB if you can leave at 6-8pm on weekdays when there are no deals. Especially as you would only progress to late stage on a few deals a year.
Most of these are LMM or more senior than associate. 6pm leave time isn't happening at associate level at MF
not sure why this got MSed, this is true
MFs are too busy grinding to be posting on here.
Except PE starts earlier at 8-8:30. Bankers don't even come in until 10
In my view, 8-6/8 is still better than 10-2am
Ymm, no? I usually come in around 10.30am and get to leave around 5pm on most days (+2h WFH till 7-8pm).
This is definitely not true across the board. We don't come in till 9:30-10 at my firm
MM London, I would say it averages out to 9 to 7:30 over a year, which seems broadly in line.
In terms of weekend work, really only during deal sprints or when it’s really busy. I guess i maybe have more flexibility to leave at (say) 17:30 and push stuff to a Sunday if I want to go to something in the evening on a weekday. Also, sometimes I like to read things or do a model in peace without the annoyance of emails / calls so couple of hours on a weekend is a possibility.
My sense is MF hours seem to vary quite a lot, more than I expected.
Seems at the moment, due to debt markets, limited deal activity so people leaving at (say) 7:30ish but can heard it can be brutal during busier times.
Wow, thanks all for the responses. This all sounds much better than my current banking experiences. Good to hear can still have a career in finance without working until midnight M-F.
For reference I'm at a BB TMT coverage group, SF based. Thought group wasn't supposed to be sweaty coming in, but have been working until midnight-2am nearly every day after ramping up. Quality of life detiorates highly after 10pm..
BB TMT “wasn’t supposed to be sweaty”. Someone lied to you.
I agree with you. If you could get home at 10 it's pretty OK as you have 1-2 hours where you can wind down before getting to sleep and you will also get a full night of sleep. Grinding out one night on 5-6 hours of sleep isn't a problem, but when you sleep 5-6 hours 5 days a week and spend every minute of your time awake staring at a screen in the office it does affect your general wellbeing A LOT.
I was working until 2-4am regularly when I was in banking in SF. My PE gig pays me the same or more for about half the hours.
ton of pitching or deal related work? r u cranking weekends?
Mix of both, Saturdays protected but usually end up doing 1-2hrs of work to lighten load on Sunday. I'd say most of the analysts work 8-12 hrs Sunday
Very chill hours here. Most seniors leaving between 4-6pm and I just leave after my associate leaves. Have been out around 7pm on average with minimal work from home in the evening. LMM fund with small team
If you’re a first year analyst keep in mind that this is the slowest the market has been in years. It will definitely get much worse.
Could you please elaborate on why? Get the sense further backstops to come, a return to QE in 12-18 months means it will only be painful this year / early into next. Keen to get others thoughts on this.
M-Th 8A-630P in office, second shift 8p to 10P or 11P typical. Can flex to ~12A during busiest times. Friday usually 8-6:30P but without the second shift. Weekend work is where most of the flex is. Lighter times that's just a couple of hours, super busy times those can be all consumed.
As an associate ($500MM-$750MM fund):
9:30-11:30 M-Th on average, with plenty of later nights (and fairly regular 3-4am nights when in deal sprint mode). Usually out by 7-8 on Friday, usually got Saturday off (but not always, probably worked at least 1-2 Saturdays per month), and typically worked 6-8 hours on Sunday. Vacations were frequently blown up. The firm I was at had a notoriously shitty culture though so wouldn’t expect it to be this bad elsewhere (I hope).
Now ($5-10Bn fund):
8:30-6:30 M-Th, usually do Fridays from home. Maybe 30 min to an hour reviewing work from home and answering emails in the evening. Rarely do anything on Saturdays (maybe read a CIM or something on a slow Saturday) and spend maybe an hour Sunday prepping for the week. Deal sprints are obviously worse / grindier but since I’m not deep in the model anymore, it’s not nearly as bad. Late late nights are super rare at this point (although they do happen every now and then).
Interesting.
I guess key question is: did you find having more resource / more professional management teams at larger fund reduces workload?
Culture does sound awful at previous fund.
Yes it makes a huge difference. Previous firm had no real operating resources to speak of. Combine that with underperforming portfolio companies, weak management teams, and noxious partners/MDs/mid-levels and you have a recipe for a painful associate stint, even when not working on a live deal.
I can’t tell you how much better my life is being able to just call the CFO and getting an accurate piece of analysis right away vs. having to cobble it together as an associate (also helps that the companies are big enough that they’re relatively insulated from short term movements)
how were you able to transition to being a principal at 5-10B fund from 500-750mm? Did you get promoted all the way to VP and then lateral to principal at current fund?
wondering if its better to pick a PE shop where internal promotions are better to get to VP and then lateral? often times, moving from senior associate to VP seems pretty hard so curious about your path and tips on what helped you get promoted in PE?
Unrelated topic, but looks like you made the move to MM from LMM. Curious as what stage you made this move. I’m at a LMM myself but have considered moving upstream to a bigger fund. Did you find it challenging? Thanks.
I started last summer, it was pretty busy up until about November. I’d say on average I was doing 60-70 hrs pw. Since the turn of the year it’s like a 9-5 with a few days here and there I’ll work til 12. Deals are stalling heavy and buyers have been getting cold feet due to the economy. Still haven’t closed a deal lmao
At EB
What I've seen and heard, both real estate and generalist, is it is highly firm dependent. There are places that are 9-7, little weekend work, and others that are 9-2am and weekend work, and the results aren't necessarily that different. The difference comes down to 80/20 rule (spend 80% of your time on the 20% that matters). Some PE firms will have you spend 5 hours on an analysis that the result is just a brain exercise and doesn't impact anything related to what you're working on
Real estate but.....
M-Th: Typically in the office from ~8:30-6:30 pm, sometimes up to about 7:30 if crunched but usually try to work from if working any later. Obviously essentially on call in the evening but most days I can unplug outside of an email or two. I eat lunch at my desk most days but maybe get away from my desk for 30-60mins a day including coffee and the occasional lunch with coworkers (my direct team is just me and one director, as opposed to the 4-5 person teams most people at my firm are in)
Fr: Usually WFH from ~8:00-4:00 or so, but can obviously be later if needed. I try to push Friday afternoon work to Sat/Sun weekends if I can as I'd rather wrap things up then if it can wait. Typically a quick lunch at my WFH setup so I can finish working as early as possible
Sat/Sun: As needed. Sometimes it's been 12-16 hours over a weekend, sometimes it's zero. I would say I usually end up doing about 4 hours of work on the weekends excluding crunch weeks.
Typical week as described above usually lands in the 50-55 hour range. Good weeks can be as light as ~35-40 (maybe get 1-2 of these a quarter). Bad weeks obviously stretch to 70+. What others have said about intellectually stimulating work being more tiring is true, I can breeze through 60 hours of simple stuff and feel fresh everyday, but 60 hours of complex work really wears on you.
PE has way more variance than IB. I still generally found the hours in PE quite long but the work was more long-duration so more spread out. That is, I have always worked some of the time on weekends and always had long days. I worked M-F12-14 hour days pretty consistently. But the number of forced all-nighters and chained-to-desk urgent work pushes were much more limited. Which is good because as I get older I just can’t do the sort of body-abusing all-nighters anymore. So it’s more marathon less sprint.
Definitely agree with the choppiness of it.
When you're actually on late stage on a deal in PE it is absolutely brutal. I am 5x more efficient than when I was an analyst and yet on deal I'm grinding as much with far more thought into my work.
In truly off deal environments in a slow market like now the job is chiller than even a 9-5. Obvious caveats that I'm several years into my career (VP is one promo after MBA for us) but not yet responsible for deal gen so it's kind of a nice spot to be in
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