Struggling to Move Back to Investing Side
Been a while since I've been on here - think my first post was back in 2012 asking if I could make it to Wall Street from X school - lol.
Anyway, I did make it to Wall Street from that school, and I ended up spending 2 years at a top BB. I moved on to a MM PE shop for a couple of years before it came time to "go get your MBA." However, I had absolutely zero desire to go get my MBA and simply stay on the traditional track because that's what I was supposed to do. Having spent time on the sell and buy-sides, I actually wanted to go get some real operational experience.
Long story short, I was recruited by an activist fund to go work on one of their deals that had gone south during COVID, and we had a wildly successful 2-year run. Our stock ran 600+%, as Wall Street lauded our turnaround amidst the market rally. We exited at the beginning of this year, and I have been looking to go back to the investing side of PE ever since. I had an awesome experience in more of an operational role, and feel that it made me an infinitely better investor. I simply miss being an investor, being one step removed from carrying out the operational mandates, and the diversity of deals/teams one sees in that seat.
Now that I am no longer in that Associate range, though, I am finding it almost impossible to get back into an investing role. With the few opportunities I have had, I have been able to make it pretty far in the process, only to get cut in the end for someone with a "more traditional background.".... Any advice from folks out there? Thanks!!
I'm sorry your search hasn't gone as you've hoped. Only thing that I can think of is that the combination of your investing and operational experience turns you into a "tweener" that a large fund with very specific, well-defined roles doesn't know how to place ("my VPs/Principals look like this, and my operating partners look like this, and you don't look like either").
What kinds of firms are you talking to? I could see you having success (both at landing the seat, and then performing in the seat) at a smaller middle-market shop or family office or the like that has a mandate or value creation thesis that matches nicely with your experience. That might not be what you're after though.
Thanks- definitely been much tougher than I anticipated. I think you're exactly right in that there is such a homogenous background within these roles that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I certainly don't blame the funds for going with a stud from New Mountain vs. "taking a shot" on someone like myself.
I'm open to LMM, but those roles seem to be few and far between in this current fundraising/macro environment. There's no longer the same turnover once you move up in seniority... I do think my background would lend itself best to an operationally-focused fund or one that specifically operates in the consumer/retail space, which is where my operating deal was.
Congrats on a great run! Agree with the poster above that PE firms -- particularly the larger / more bureaucratic ones -- have a VERY well-developed "you don't get fired for hiring IBM" instinct when it comes to recruiting. Personally I see this as an enormous detriment to the diversity and health of the industry as a whole... but it sadly is what it is, and unless you have a personal connection somewhere who will go to bat for you, I think this will always be a challenge to overcome.
The other thing that I'd add is in a mid-level role you really are a glorified project manager. Obviously you need someone who will take a critical eye to things, know which stones in DD haven't been turned over, etc. which I'm sure you'd be good at... but as far as the annoying but critical "have we talked to this person, kicked off this workstream, engaged so and so," it can be tough to get back into this at the competency they're looking for if you've been out of the transactions game for a little while (or at least I suspect that's how they may be thinking about things).
If I were in your shoes I would probably look downmarket given roles / teams will be a little less defined and your diversity of experience will be seen as a benefit to the team, not some burden you have to look past. I'd also just really look at this as the experience you deserve based on the track record!
Agree completely with this post. I think you just need more interviews and maybe focus downmarket a bit on more operationally-focused firms or those that were started by entrepreneurs, not Wall Street types (I find tech focused PE / GE firms are often more open to diverse backgrounds). You have banking and PE experience already so I think someone will bite eventually.
Also, from a mindset perspective walk into the interviews knowing that your unique experiences are an asset and you can use them to add value to the firm. This type of self-assuredness will come across in interviews I promise.
Thank you both - really good stuff in here!
This may not be what you want to hear but business school is a great way to transition at this phase. You get a huge network and the opportunity to take your time and make connections with firms and get ahead of formal recruiting processes. Plus, coming out of MBA school you’ll be branded a more “traditional” VP candidate which should even things out. The downside is you’re on the hook for tuition and will need to forgo two years of income of course.
I've wanted to avoid it, but it certainly becomes a more compelling option each day that passes. I just haven't felt I had a good enough reason to go other than to get a job until now... also, I worry I am starting to age out at 28 with a wife who is ready to start a family once I get my career back on track
I started my MBA at 28 and six years of experience was actually the median YOE for my MBA class at Booth. Even if you applied this year in round 2 and started next fall, you would be slightly above the median. You absolutely aren’t aged out but you will be eventually if you wait too much longer.
I feel like I may have interviewed you for my fund because this is a fairly unique background. If your case study involved traffic lights, reply to this post and I will DM you to connect.
Otherwise agree completely with other posters and have little to add.
Hey man. This is dope to read.
The first thing you have to internalize is that you have a skill-set that's actually irreplaceable. People respond to people. Just reading this post, your energy doesn't come across as "I have this awesome set of experiences". You gotta lean harder into that.
The second thing is that the best jobs aren't found in a three or six-month search process. They often take a year or two. You're reaching the point in your career where the path becomes a little less well-trod, seats are no longer a guaranteed two-and-out phenomenon. I encourage you to combine these two things I'm saying by continuing to search for a place that responds warmly to the warmth, positivity, and (healthy) self-certainty you emanate through this process.
It sounds like you've decided you're not interested in continuing in the operating lane. That may be smart, because there's a scarcity of junior private equity portfolio operations roles to go around. Some of the prior comments (love seeing all the familiar usernames) hit your conundrum squarely on the head. Firms like to hire gray-haired dudes (it's always dudes...) as Operating Partners. They've been around long enough to progress past knowing a little about a lot to actually know a lot about a lot. They often fall naturally into a great dynamic with management teams in the portfolio. Said simply, taking advice from someone who looks and sounds like they've been around the block is easier. You're not here yet. Secondly, there are fewer firms that run operations teams alongside their traditional deal teams. (You might want to investigate those though, because your profile really makes sense for them.)
If you're not at all interested in that, you have to package yourself as a senior associate hire who's better than a typical two-and-two person looking for their next shop.
The point I want to hammer here is that the packaging really has to be different for each place you're talking to. Let's rattle off some examples, and tailor them to your stated C&R focus.
I want to do other stuff now so I'll wrap this up.
You've done cool stuff. Don't let the no's you've received so far make you think the path is closed. The more senior you get, the longer a search takes. You know more about yourself, you have more things in your repertoire to talk about and highlight, and the firm is eyeing you as a longer-term investment. Keep at it.
Much appreciated - really helpful advice here! I am currently industry agnostic, but would love to get an opportunity in that C/R space since my operating experience is there. Most of my PE deal reps are actually in the business services/industrials space.
Unfortunately, the sheen of my top BB days has long worn off, and I can't even get the time of day from these damn HHs who were blowing up my email 6 years ago with PE opps. I am currently left wondering how much of it is the brutal macro backdrop vs. my non-traditional background now vs. scarcity of SA/VP seats compared to associate... I have started to hit the point in my search where I wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat wondering what the f*** has happened - this is not how everything was supposed to go... That said, this has been a very humbling experience and will make it that much more fulfilling if/when I am finally able to get back in!
You are learning that the less traditional your profile, the less attention you get from the third-party headhunter crowd. This makes sense given the nature of their business model.
You will enjoy more success forging your own path. Skip trying to impress the people whose entire methodology is about pattern-matching so they can fill a funnel and go to the end audience, actual working professionals at funds that have a higher likelihood of valuing your experience.
Lastly, take the pressure off yourself. You are more than your work. It's great that you have the perspective that the difficulty of the journey will make your eventual success more sweet.
Good luck man.
Actual lol at this line.
Fantastic advice though, as per usual.
I wholeheartedly concur with this post. I believe you simply need more interviews and should narrow your emphasis to companies that are more operationally focused or were founded by business owners rather than Wall Street types (I find that tech-focused PE / GE firms are frequently more receptive to different backgrounds). Given your prior experience in banking and private equity, I predict that someone will ultimately bite.
Additionally, approach the interviews with the idea that your special experiences are a strength and that you can use them to benefit the company. I guarantee that interviews will reflect this level of confidence.
I can't help you much on the original question, but would love to hear some specifics about what operational experience helped you become a better investor. I posted about this the other day, but I'm getting to the PE VP level and feel like it's the right time to get some operating experience, despite PE being long-term goal. Any advice on what to look for, or what made the most valuable experiences, would be helpful.
Part of my question stems from me wanting to validate that it's a good idea to do this (easiest path would be portco at current firm then come back to investing role, which shouldn't be a huge ask given small firm dynamics).
1. Able to see how investment mandates actually flow through an organization.... hiring the right heads in key functional areas is everything
2. Better able to identify FEASIBLE levers to pull from a revenue and cost perspective and the proper cadence for maximum effect/efficiency
3. Much better at evaluating the abilities/qualities that top operating performers need to have to make a successful investment, especially in the turnaround space
4. Appreciation for how normal employees within these investment targets feel about institutional $ (they don't care about your investment at all) and how to better motivate and align in the future
5. Better understanding of exactly how a target makes money and every little thing that goes into it, which I think is often lost on investment professionals
6. Deeper understanding of industry dynamics, key relationships in the industry, and less understood details re: key competitors
I could go on, but these come to top of mind
As someone who knew he wanted operating experience, I must say that the career cost has been much greater than I anticipated. Although I made more money in the short term than I would have in PE, it has clearly been a hindrance to my broader career as an investor in the space. It seems that most funds would rather you stay in an investment seat than leave the traditional path to get operating experience.... That said, if you can work it out with your fund in advance, I highly recommend it. It was a great experience, and made it clear to me that I would rather be back on the investing side... but I would have always wondered in the back of my mind had I not had this experience.
What do you think about 2 yrs as an associate, 2 yrs at a portco of the same fund, and then going to vp? essentially replacing mba with portco exp. have seen this at some UMM and a couple of MF.
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