What lessons you learned the hard way so everyone else doesn't have to?
Hi, I'm a graduating senior and incoming analyst. Wanted to hear about mistakes you have made and lessons learned the hard way from a career in private equity / finance in general. Not neccesarily scared to start full time, just don't want to mess anything up I don't have to. Appreciate the help!
Quickly off the top of my head:
Assume everything you put together is fucked up in someway no matter how small of a task, whether that be a Working Group List - triple check every single phone # and email, a simple comps output - f2 everything for your EV builds, check your factset estimates to make sure they make sense cuz they can be wrong (confirm w/a research report, latest IP deck for mgmt estimates etc) to sanity check your shit then do it again. In models, take a step back and make sure everything from top line volumes->revenues->cogs->Opex all make sense (ie theres not a double negative on a cost line in your formula, your sums are capturing every row, debt isn't going negative, etc) and your IRR isn't 672% or something. Be a freak about lining up your axis's on charts in a slide, your text boxes are perfect, your line spacing is consistent, and every word makes sense, those 20-30 extra minutes of review will help you find so many things and will give you goodwill with your VP's and save you an hour or two a night which goes so far.
Echoing the guy above on version control, I sometimes go a little overboard on v'ing up my work, but avoiding a disaster where you spend 2 hours updating a model and accidentally fuck somehting and #REF it will make you want to jump off a bridge if you don't have a recent draft saved, truly nothing more demoralizing than that.
Make an effort to build the camraderie with your class, venting about shit once the seniors leave at night truly makes you feel like you're all in it together, and when you're in a bind having your buddy the cubicle over lend a hand is a godsend.
Trust no one
fr, I've heard some crazy stories about office politics and plotting, two-faced coworkers
are you able to share a few stories? work for a MF that’s on the other side of cutthroat/sharp elbowed/backstab-y compared to, say, apollo (at least from what i’ve seen on the surface), and haven’t come across any situations like that thus far in my career.
I would say find 1-2 people you can trust, typically either right below or above you, no farther.
Imo, I would add you need one senior you can trust to advocate for you when layoffs/reviews/etc go down and maybe you are on a rating border.
Truer words have never been said.
No one is your friend in this industry, remember that and look out for yourself.
(this excludes the handful of shops with legitimately good people running ops, who genuinely care about their people….if you find this…hold on).
Definitely don’t overshare
Have generally heard people mention something to a coworker offhandedly such as them going to dinner on a weeknight with friends; coworker then blows it out of proportion and talks about how much time that person has that they can do this all the time, don’t work hard, etc.
Preface: Still a student now, but would be interning at a top shop for summer. This was during one of my previous internships.
Hate how true this statement is. Sometimes you intern with friends and you think everything is fine and dandy, and sometimes it is. But there always is the case things may backfire (see: group projects even in school). Much less when it comes to strangers. Definitely wished I came across this comment earlier so I would have suffered lesser, but had a whole bunch of snakes in my intern class. Thankful that I didn't get very open with them or I would have been embroiled further into shit, but still got my name tarnished.
In short, one of the interns asked me what I thought of a certain someone I was in a club with. Now, the question seemed a bit "instigating" and they did seem quite gossipy/like to talk shit about someone, but we interned for about 5 months together (off cycle role) and thought that it could have been a genuine friendship (spoiler: people who talk shit about tons of other people very quickly to you will just as quickly talk shit about you to people). I just gave a " half-honest" answer (but didn't give too many details as I'm not comfortable blatantly shit talking people to those outside my close circle) because man was frankly quite a dick at times, and was vague on how I actually felt, but the idea that I wasn't very close/fond of him can be conveyed.
And lol some months later, heard all kinds of shit on how I said stuff behind people's backs (not true, was essentially a one-off especially as they asked me how I found this fella) and how I was fake in always putting on a nice persona but deep down am manipulative and plotting (bruh wtf, ain't nobody got time for that). Word got around, and finance is a very small circle. Some of those close to me heard and told me about it, but I heard some of my intern seniors (those who interned at the same shop before us) caught wind too. And some of them are going to be graduating soon/get good roles, and may even potentially interview me one day.
Urgh... as much as I don't think it really matters and it hasn't came around to biting me on my ass (hope it doesn't too), was a taster on how sometimes people just want drama, and are willing to make it appear out of thin air too.
Seems like quite a duh thing to people in the industry, but it was my first taste of these types of corporate nonsense. So the " trust no one" is a very sad truth for the industry.
TLDR: Don't say anything negative/your true thoughts, can always bite you in the ass. Happened to me with people who I thought I was close to.
Manage your career proactively and adapt as you go. All the folks at higher levels do this.
Care to add more colour on this? Seems like this is a hidden gem
interested
Sure, it’s all about how you position yourself, manage the perception of yourself, and navigate the political environment of your situation. Also important is stepping back from your role and even current job/employer to ask yourself if what you’re doing and where you are will get you where you want to go. A lot of times people think if they just work harder or make their immediate supervisor happy they’ll get ahead….and they might….but I’ve found the most diligent workers often would benefit from stepping back mentally and looking at the big picture, and then doing something about it.
Personally it’s frustrating to realize that the worst people are the most inclined to “manage their career” and climb the ladder while the folks focused on doing good work get stepped over…and later stepped on. The good news is that when diligent people develop their awareness and learn to navigate the politics, they generally do get ahead, and they make the better executives in the long run.
It took me a while to realize that once you learn the skills toolset of your space, the rest is how you interact with people and position yourself. Very very very few people at the top are indispensable in any way, they just know how to play the game. And, further, whenever the folks at the top say “just work harder” what they really mean is “just work harder FOR ME”….no thinking person should ever blindly work harder without looking at what it will get them.
In short, you have to create and search for your opportunity and then take a chance, and not wait to be rewarded….because that day may never come. I lost a few years like this and now I am hyper focused on always understanding how to make a situation work for me. And I’m honest, I think you should too. Think about your situation realistically and look at what your opportunity is and how you can leverage yourself to what you want. As an aside I’d also say that building alliances and quietly stacking the deck in your favor is a much more reliable way to get ahead than engaging in showmanship or engaging in zero sum competition; leave your ego out of it.
In my view you don’t want to be the fastest gun in the west because you will inevitably get cut down. Even if you really are the best, someone is eventually going to shoot you in the back. That’s your ego talking, convincing you that somehow you’re special when most likely you’re just another cog in the wheel. You know who you never hear much about in the old westerns though? The wealthy cattle rancher who quietly employs all the cowboys, the guy who is building an empire and buying up all the land while all the little people compete with each other for baubles and bragging rights. Play for keeps.
…..and that was a much longer answer than I’d intended
Not directly but second hand: Don't quit on your worst day. Push through and make a clear headed decision once you're on the other side. Longevity in this space is often about just getting through the tough periods, not necessarily always being perfect. And always have a good attitude. This goes a long way early on when you're still learning / not adding much value.
Always remember who you work for. You definitely don’t work for your VP. You don’t work for your Partners. You don’t work for your company. They might review your work, they might pay you. They might benefit from all the amazing hard work that you do. But it isn’t about them.
You work for you.
When you’re double and triple checking your work, it’s because you are a detailed oriented professional. When you bang out presentation comments, it’s to learn how to effectively and attractively synthesize information. When you stay up until 2 AM modeling, it’s to become technically proficient. When you work 3 weekends straight to get an M&A deal closed, it’s to add a win to your resume and deal sheet. Even when you’re handling random bullshit asinine tasks, you do it to develop mental fortitude, patience, and resilience.
You work to make yourself better, stronger, faster, smarter, more capable, more skilled, more valuable, more adaptable. You're just using your company as a resource to get mentorship, deal experience, institutional capability, learning opportunities, client relationships, etc. Always, always, remember that everything you’re doing is for you, and do it to the best of your ability because it’s you who will reap the reward in the long run. Go get what’s yours.
Analyst 2 you should be a f*cking motivational speaker or a Navy SEAL. Inspirational.
It is bank holiday in UK and I am working, but this reminded gave me perspective as to why 🙏. Thank you.
Thanks Associate 2 in PE - LBOs. I hope one day I can slide you my resume and join you in the sun.
Never forget you work for the King.
How do you maintain this incredible mindset when it feels like you’re being taken advantage of? It seems like the hardest workers often end up overworked, while some analysts do the bare minimum and still get to list the same deals on their resumes. And it’s not like senior bankers are always going to appreciate your effort or advocate for you. How do you stay motivated when you're working longer hours and it's not like it's going to create a massive skill gap between you and others?
Even though I want to learn as much as possible, I also know that others see my work and could easily take credit for it in interviews. It’s not like they wouldn’t be able to do it either (and if they’re better speakers, they could probably still wing it much better), and I’m left wondering if all this extra work and grit is really making me a “better” analyst, or if I’m just burning out for no real growth, all for a couple extra thousand dollars if any.
I know it's probably a dumb thing to ask and maybe not appropriate here, esp when you said it so beautifully. But I know how awful and ungrateful IB can be with the wrong people, and I wanted to hear how you pushed through it. Thanks so much
Something I’ve found that has really helped me, is to find someone at the Senior Assoc/VP level who is really good and work your ass off for them. They’ll generally be happy to provide mentorship (as most humans do, see this thread) and if you’re good and keen will take you with them as they rise. The downside to this is you generally end up pissing off whoever is in the middle of you and them, especially if they’re less talented/burnt out/checked out/less hard working.
Don't assume anything. Get confirmation.
Also, and I find this particularly important for today's grads who have grown up multitasking and flying through multiple screens, TAKE YOUR TIME and PAY ATTENTION TO DETAILS. Takes way LESS time to get it right the first time vs. redoing your work over and over. Attention to detail (or lack there of it) is a pet peeve of mine. I don't care how smart you are or what school you attended if you make stupid mistakes that were easily avoidable.
As stated above by multiple posters, I cannot stress enough the importance of honing your attention to detail, especially at the beginning of your career. The less simple mistakes your Associate, VP, etc. have to correct, the easier your life will be.
Additionally, providing context when speaking to anyone internally or externally is incredibly important, and a lot of people tend to struggle with this. Before diving into the details of topics that people have varying degrees of familiarity with, you should strive to set the scene -> What's the background? Where did this task originate from? Whose been involved to-date and who will need to be involved moving forward? What does success look like / what is the ultimate end goal?
On a related note to the above - it's inevitable that you'll make mistakes (as we all do!), but I am a firm believer that you should aim to knock it out of the park in any aspects of your role, or even life itself, that are within your control. This encompasses not only attention to detail, but your attitude, work ethic, coachability, etc. If you have a firm grasp on this concept, I can assure you that your time spent at work will be much more fruitful.
There's a lot of gems on this thread already, but hope this was helpful. Good luck!
Your career is not linear, there's going to be ups and downs, and the path you outlined most likely will not be as clean cut as you think. With that being said, keep an open mind because you'll find things you like to work on, and may choose to go that route. Do what's good for yourself, not at the direction of others.
Focus on mental and physical health. Your priority is yourself and your well being. Theres differences between working hard and losing sight of life.
You're going to meet some great people along the way, and you're also going to meet some of the worst you've ever met, too. Sometimes in the latter, it's OK to burn bridges.
Money isn't everything, but you do need it to live the life you wanted - so take those vacations with the money that youve earned
I needed to hear this. I may shoot you a message if that’s cool. Experiencing that first major down in my life right now, and adapting has been difficult.
Feel free to... sometimes a vent sesh to a 3rd party with an objective view helps tremendously
The… “non-finance” parts of the job are at least as important as the “finance” part of the job.
For example, it is important to be able to model an LBO or run an accretion/dilution model. However, it is also just as important as being able to send an email to a CEO or head of Corp Dev clearly and concisely articulating whatever you have to say.
Everyone WANTS to be doing just the financial modeling or presenting their analysis. But in order to be able to do that type of work you NEED to be able to handle the more administrative type work
This. I have (and still am to a degree) learned this the hard way over the last few years. It’s especially true as you advance through the ranks.
Put a 2 minute delay on your Outlook Sent items. So anytime you forget an attachment/accidentally send an emai to the wrong person because you are exhausted, you've got a chance to catch it.
100%! I would argue the ability to communicate your model effectively is more important than the model, as you'll find that part of a job / career is highly commoditized. Still important but doesn't set you apart. However, being able to catch the attention of CEO, senior X, etc. and keep their attention with a succinct, well worded, move to action email (or VM, or in person) is a huge skill to build.
Network and people skills are more important than technical competency. The real game is finding the people who have resources / power and make them your friends / mentor. Don't be the person who grind technicals, those are always replaceable commodities. People connections and emotional values are the most valuable thing that make you unique
This is solid advice. From your recent posts you have revealed that you're working at a quant fund, which, if I'm being honest, kind of contradicts with this comment about networking and people skills - since, if we're being honest, quant funds aren't exactly the hub for relationships as much as it about analytics. As such, I'm somewhat confused about your stance that values people skills and networking so highly, yet you're working at a quant fund?
I’m a quant developer in quant funds. My livelihood relies on quant researchers and their strategies which I implement. And sometimes getting yourself in the right team, supporting the right quant researcher, and connecting with the smartest people is much more important than keeping head down and grind.
This is true for all industries regardless. Even academia is filled with people politics
A few things come to mind:
Good luck
This is so true, even more so at larger funds with more heads.
Liquid gold right here. Being a top performer isn’t about discovering strange new secrets to the universe and applying them in never-before-seen ways. It’s about applying all the basic best-practices everybody knows with excellence, day in and day out, consistently for months and years on end.
Lots of good stuff already. I will add one more, and it’s trying to “work up”. If you’re an analyst, try to complete associate tasks if you have time or take a first crack without being asked. Making the life of the person above you easier will make your life a lot easier down the road and will create a ton of goodwill. Don’t get me wrong, don’t ass kiss or stay up until 5am to do this. But if it’s a slow day and your associate said he’ll do that one slide but you realize the deck is done and he hasn’t gotten to it, take a crack at it. I found that people really appreciate it and I’m return make your life easier, i.e., by setting later deadlines or giving you some slack when you need it because you helped them out before. It will also just make you like able within your group. Again, very fine line between doing this and ass kissing, have to pick your moments.
One thing I wish I knew when I started in IB was that no one really cares how long / hard your work, as long as your work product is good. You obviously need to work hard in banking/PE, but really making sure to take time off is crucial. When I started, I thought it would look good if I only took 1 or 2 days off over the year, but no one really gave a shit and I regret not taking more advantage of PTO.
Understand well what is required from you: smaller firms rarely have a pre-written description of each role and of related expectations. You’d be surprised how helpful that can be! I realised this when a Partner at another PE fund gave me their internal write-ups of what skills an Associate, Vice President, Principal should display; it adjusted my perspective.
The above comments really nail it, wouldn’t add much except the below - which is - if you want to live in line with your values, trust your guts above everything else no matter what’s in front of you and observe.
If it sounds like a good option
If it walks like a good option
If it looks like a good option
Then probably it’s a good option.
Good option can be replaced by: a well built assumption in your model, a trustworthy peer, a well thought deck argumentation, a career move.
And good can be replaced by bad, toxic, unprofessional or whatever.
Some really interest points here, aside from what was said I would add
1. Own your work - Often I see people doing a sloppy work because their Associate/VP is going to review it anyway, instead work as if what you do will directly go to the CEO
2. Work as if everyone else is dead - Do not wait for your superiors to move things, be the one who gets things done, follows up, schedules calls, comes up with ideas and delivers
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