Why is PE like this? Shocked by culture after MBB
So I spent 2~ years in MBB after college in a T1 city and joined a growth/LBO PE fund a few months ago.
I actually really enjoyed my time in MBB, I got exposure to a bunch of stuff, didn't work weekends, my start class was actually very close and even did some trips together outside of work and regularly went out, etc. We worked hard especially when staffed on diligence cases but it felt structured.
Everyone in PE (not just my fund, know 3 friends who made the switch as well), feels militant. No one laughs at work and there is no sense of camaraderie, people are so bought in to the job. Also I know this was what I was signing up for but there is no sense of work ever being done. When you're done with a deal sprint it's back to portco work, reporting, LP comms, biz dev stuff.
Work is stuffy and people take themselves so seriously. I know for a fact most of these people don't have a path up at the firm either. I would rather do 9-9-6 at a high growth tech startup or go work strategy for FAANG for sure, in terms of pay and future career prospects knowing this now.
The learning curve is what it is, I didn't spend that much time in excel during consulting days but there is a ton of solving for stuff just to appease your IC or Partner preferences that's clearly just an ego thing. Damn.
tale as old as time. Former MBB here too (ignore flair). MBB culture is unique.
Because all the work PE does is performative. IC does 4-5 decisions a year (and say 4-5 on exits/portco, though not really there) and that is it, the rest is decorum. Thing is, you need to justify your existence to LPs and to the IC to get the insane comp you have and fees you charge.
Take solace that at least the analytical acumen you build and the subjects/tasks you work on are interesting, but yeah at the end of the day it doesn't matter.
TLDR: stakes are high, explicit link to returns is non-existent for non-IC/GP partners, need to justify your existence through BS work
this is why my mf doesnt hire soft mbb consultants we only hire bricked up bankers
Based
real
Lol
Pause
hilarious
the word you're looking for is "intense"
Welcome to private equity my friend. Im former MBB and I tell those who ask me that it’s not comparable to MBB. Night and day.
Is it worth it after MBB?
I'll try and be brief / not write essay
-- for me personally yes. it's been good switch, i vastly prefer it to MBB. I can see myself doing it for long time. i find the work/ownership 50x more interesting
-- But I have enough self-awareness to know the answer could easily be "no" for many ppl
-- I work at a fund that has every single characteristic you mentioned. MM $2-6B. More bankers than consultants. Very military, intense, workaholics. For the wrong person would be nightmare. But tbh I've always been a little bit like that too, where sometimes I would get annoyed in MBB with too many group lunches/activities/events where I would have preferred to have more time on my own to just get shit done etc. But that's just me.
-- There's a big sacrifice, and my $ per hour (or more relevant is $ per-effort of-energy/intensity) is probably clearly lower than MBB. The job has definitely changed me a bit. My friend/social circle has gotten smaller. I've probably "missed" some things in my personal life. I've become more of a robot. There's no denying it. Physical health is still fine but over the years you start fighting against some chronic burnout/fatigue.
-- My title is bit outdated, and I don't want to get too specific. But I've basically "made the jump" to mid-level etc, so I'm in it for the medium/long-term. So there is survivorship bias in my comment. I have many peers who are doing something else by now and doing great in life/career/etc. I agree with OP that there are other paths with significantly better lifestyle/culture and somewhat comparable pay if you find the right spots or willing to take some risks etc.
-- At end of day I like the work. The MDs etc at my fund who have done this for 20-30 years have decided to commit their lives to this. There's no other way around it. They view it as a "game" and the companies are the "toys" etc. Also for us younger folks the payoff/gratification is so delayed in PE, that you can't just be in it for the money, because at the beginning the money isn't that great and as I mentioned the $-per-unit-of-effort is actually pretty bad. So you genuinely have to like it and be good at it IMO. Unless you specifically want to do it for 2 years to have the skillset and do something else (also viable IMO)
I found PE significantly more stuffy than IB. coming from MBB even bigger jump
any career path that gets hyped up in forums and movies tend to be like this. Corporate law, private equity, investment banking. Because everyone is chasing after things that do not even exist and subsequently they get disappointed after sacrificing their time and relationships, so they express their discontent and insecurity at the workplace. And they are stuck
You see so many people shitting on MBB because of AI and "consultants don't add value MUAHAHA". But guess what, they all freaking enjoy their jobs and cutting headcounts and get to work on many interesting companies across all sectors while PE guys need to deal with the nitty-gritty part of portcos and must be laser-focused at all times. And worst of all, it is a risk-taking role and you suffer from market downturns whereas consulting is unaffected by market conditions (clients may cut fees but there is no drawdown).
IMO Prestige is the most useless thing when it comes to choosing a career
"Consulting is unaffected by market conditions"
Bro what? Just say you didn't break into IB/PE and move on..
Pretty much everything he said was wrong or crazy haha
This culture shock is literally why most PE firms refuse to hire MBB.
It also shows you how much easier of a job MBB is compared to anything in finance.
thanks for ur participation in the the dick measurement contest AS3 now you can put it back in your pants
Honestly I think even IB analysts experience this.
You go from being part of a large class of kids your age bonded by a mutually shared shitty experience to working at some truly humorless shops with people I have zero interest in getting to know personally (and probably vice versa)
Fwiw not all PE firms are like this. Every single one will be meaningfully more work than MBB (as noted above), but there are some that still maintain a collegial culture where you can shoot the shit with your colleagues / not be in robot mode 24/7. Coincidentally, these tend to be the ones that hire consultants
Why can't you shoot the shit in PE? Aren't there a lot of fellow associates you can bond with?
Banking is 2 and out, people don't take themselves THAT seriously. PE at my fund everyone has a delusion that they are fighting for senior roles 15 years out and they act differently as a result
Which firms are like this? Just curious
apax (people follow each other on ig), silverlake, permira (supportive and went on trips together)
Consultants that go MBB to PE are very hit or miss hires. Either they work out great b/c they know how to manage politics & are self-starters to learn the finance skills or they are cooked & flame out.
Firms that hire more MBBs naturally work out better b/c they kind of know how to manage both profiles of employees.
The best kind of PE job for an ex consultant that’s unsure about the lifestyle switch is one of those BS holding company PE jobs: the one that did Keebler, JAB, Cranemere. Blue chip pedigreed firms that hire smart / well educated ppl but the pace of deal flow is slow enough that there’s fewer portcos and more consulting-style work. Not that such work is easier but it’s less of a barrage of different things at once.
If you want even more of a chill / unserious PE job: HarbourVest, LGT, Wendel, Exor spun up a growth firm (name is in the investor pres), most co-investment/secondaries shops, and certain sleepy family offices (just look at who works there and you’ll understand). These jobs are dead-ends career-wise b/c another PE firm would have to be stupid to hire from there. The ppl have little to no deal experience and barely work. It’s a good gig if you can get it and guarantee you work there forever. You’ll never make a ton of money, but you’ll do OK.
This seems very true. Have former consultant who is OK technically, doesn't seem to work that hard, delegates a lot - but makes the right noises to the partners and talks well and just thinks of 'next steps' which sound convincing. Sometimes gets called out on the BS - but rarely.
Sounds like he'll make a good senior/leader, this is why consultants do well in corporate I guess. You have an army of people to do the work, you need someone to do the talking and put on a show. Less room for this in PE but there still is some
This is only a problem if they can’t source / close deals. That’s a big issue for most juniors in PE tbh. Even the ones that think they are good with mgmt teams. At the end of the day it mostly comes down to price = better or more creative underwriting. Everything else PE firms tell themselves is a lie w/ a few exceptions (like a sr partner was college roommates with seller or something).
This is helpful. Thank you.
I met a guy not too long ago who works at Wendel and I see what you are saying. Very unserious person & talks in buzz words that he might not even understand. I’d never heard of the firm before so it makes sense.
How's the job stability at firms like HV, LGT and these FoFs (HL, Stepstone, Adams Street etc.) as a junior?
At one of these funds and typically very good. People don’t generally leave either.
Not sure why everyone hates on them. Not everyone wants to do an ultra sweaty job. I enjoy what I do, get paid well and still have time for hobbies + sleep.
Delete. Mobile app sucks and kept posting.
Delete. Mobile app sucks and kept posting.
I think this is normal. MBB is basically like an extension of college until 3-4 years into the job (once you want to become partner it gets also extremely grindy).
I was at MBB in Europe and was constantly hopping around cities like London, Milan, Copenhagen, Munich, Amsterdam, etc.
Can remember that even on very demanding/tough projects we just took out a whole evening from like 4pm to do a (all firm paid ofc) event at Oktoberfest (because it is that time of the year :D), countless of trainings off-site at really unique locations with lots of partying, team dinners frequently (alas going out to the cities finest restaurant on company money), business class fights just to travel to some random event from some of the ton of practices you are affiliated with (e.g., "healthcare practice knowledge days in Geneva"), skiing trips, summer events in Ibiza etc. etc. - and doing that with basically 90% of ppl aged 23-35 educated all at similar business/engineering schools.
I felt also the culture was really soft compared to what you see in IB/PE. A lot of juniors were super entitled so they would always push back in team retros/bombed leadership reviews when the hours were bad so there were tons of situations where partners thanked you 1000 times for clocking in 2-3h on a sunday, etc :D
Now that being said it is not all fun and games and really depends on which people you meet / how good youre standing is (because if you are a chad and do well you can do all those shenanigans much much easier) and it is also no long-term option. It gets extremely intense from AP/principal level and you will get grinded to the bone by senior partners for whom you need to prove your worth to eventually get to partner. Also there it is intense with tons of traveling, meetings all day, pitches, client projects, etc.
But the first years are literally amazing. I loved it - met so many cool people, clients, in interesting/unique projects serving large corporates, investors, etc. Great learning for sure!
Hm yea I am envious of my friends in MBB because my years in IB have been really no fun but their time in MBB has been fun and something they look back on fondly and they have similar exits given I don't have interest in PE any longer. Don't regret it though, since there is no point in doing so I guess. It feels like such a foreign concept as someone in IB that the most junior people don't get treated the worst by default like it is in seemingly all of finance
PE is where you go if you want to build negative rizz skills
agree, no camaraderie. Most colleagues do not like each other. Your entire waking life is work. Becomes a personality drag. By the time you're 30, you'll meet people in your neighborhood / social circle that work in different industries, and are financially just as well-off.
Go ahead and drone your way to the grave if you want but whats the point of it all at the end of day?
We have finite time on this planet. So live life however you want.
The fundamental way I’d put it is that PE is an antagonistic culture. Your VP is against you, and it gets way worse when you get to VP because some MDs feel like they’re plotting to kill you.
I’ve had one senior person truly present as a strong ally, and it was only because we were just extremely similar people and valued all the same things.
This is a great way to put it - PE culture feels incredibly zero sum. It's usually the opposite of a nurturing, collaborative environment... so over time you're left with only a certain type of person in these firms at all levels.
This is a pessimistic view. First fund I worked at was ,2nd is not and I have (and probably so do you) friends that work with great people.
There is no hiding or sugarcoating investment performance. Consulting deliverables are nebulous and hard to measure. I don’t think this is PE specific
This is so false. Given how long the investment period is, being perceived as a good investor is mostly sugarcoating and performance (assuming you aren’t terrible). Thats why the job is so political and being sketchy and protective when your portfolio companies have a bad quarter. it’s all about how you are perceived to be doing.
Provident voluptatem velit expedita blanditiis quis in doloremque. Consectetur ad sint quis. Consectetur sint perferendis est debitis distinctio. Modi maxime a repellat aut. Consequatur excepturi neque dolorem nostrum itaque eaque.
Sed itaque et et necessitatibus est modi asperiores dolore. Eum ab vero dolor veniam consequatur error explicabo vel. Neque fugit molestiae assumenda dolor odio ut voluptatem ut. Sit id ad fuga animi et perferendis.
Enim eius atque aut deleniti quisquam qui. Voluptate expedita qui cumque distinctio et eius similique illo. Repellat magnam esse molestiae velit minus aut voluptatem. Est distinctio animi eos. Voluptatum qui soluta itaque. Aperiam perspiciatis excepturi assumenda. Fuga harum aut aut eaque aut.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Eum neque ad esse et autem in. Atque placeat itaque beatae et eius. Rerum sapiente exercitationem est. Facilis voluptate laudantium consequatur nobis est.
Et est qui et molestiae hic. Aliquid ut impedit quas quas autem sint. Omnis dicta eos voluptatum repudiandae est et. Et voluptas iste illo asperiores omnis molestias et. Qui molestiae eum doloremque quia et voluptatem dolorum.
Unde sint doloribus iure voluptates et repellendus. Illum expedita in aperiam est quis reiciendis. Ut cumque est minima consequatur voluptatibus laborum.
Rem eligendi suscipit esse perspiciatis autem cum est. Possimus autem aspernatur et sed ut. Rerum provident sit ipsa. Aspernatur sed asperiores quisquam et dolorem et modi ex. Magnam alias dolorem et et asperiores blanditiis.