Texas Cops Reportedly Scared To Go Inside School
https://mobile.twitter.com/paleofuture/status/152…
Why do we give these cops GI Joe military grade equipment if they’re just going to sit around and LARP? Unreal, if true..
edit - shooter was outside firing shots beforehand for 12 minutes.. while cops were.. ????
https://www.wsj.com/articles/uvalde-residents-voi…
edit 2 - According to a Texas DPS Lieutenant who spoke to a local news station after the shooting, some law enforcement officers even rushed into the school to rescue their own children.
Javier Cazares, whose fourth grade daughter, Jacklyn Cazares, was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school when he heard about the shooting, arriving while police were still gathered outside the building.
Upset that police were not moving in, he raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.
“Let’s just rush in because the cops aren’t doing anything like they are supposed to,” he said. “More could have been done.”
“They were unprepared,” he added.
Minutes earlier, Carranza had watched as Salvador Ramos crashed his truck into a ditch outside the school, grabbed his AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle and shot at two people outside a nearby funeral home who ran away uninjured.
Officials say he “encountered” a school district security officer outside the school, though there were conflicting reports from authorities on whether the men exchanged gunfire. After running inside, he fired on two arriving Uvalde police officers who were outside the building, said Texas Department of Public Safety spokesperson Travis Considine. The police officers were injured.
After entering the school, Ramos charged into one classroom and began to kill.
He “barricaded himself by locking the door and just started shooting children and teachers that were inside that classroom,” Lt. Christopher Olivarez of the Department of Public Safety told CNN. “It just shows you the complete evil of the shooter.”
https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-texas-schoolsho…
How the fuck is locking a door considered a “barricade”
The school rent-a-cop at Stoneman Douglas did something similar. Absolute disgraces and just shows how arming teachers and adding more security isn’t going to solve this.
If you look at the video, the cops were restraining parents who wanted to go in for there kids and one even had a taser out ready to use on parents.
If cops who are trained for this are too scared to act, I doubt many underpaid and undertrained teachers would be willing to put their lives on the line and play hero.
As someone who has voted for Republicans before, this is such bullishit. They keep saying it’s a mental health issue and not a gun issue but refuse to expand access to healthcare and other resources that would actually help peoples mental health.
Also, reportedly, some cops/law enforcement people were allowed to go inside and save their own children, but didn’t bother with others. TBD on if bullshit or truth, but wouldn’t be surprised either way
Lol so the cops won’t do anything and your solution is that citizens and teachers aren’t allowed to arm themselves?
man, do you honestly think arming teachers is a good idea? like in order to be actually effective you have to train for that shit constantly like the military. Giving some 20 something a Glock whose gone to the range twice is idiotic.
I completely support increased training requirements for cops - defunding the police is stupid, but moving some of the budget away from shiny toys to actually training cops on how to deal with different situations is key to improving our law enforcement
I do not think any level of training is going to help. It is actually a rational decision for police officer to not want to put his life on the line by confronting a shooter with an ar-15. I know it is their job to confront shooters but they also have families who need them.
Then they shouldn’t be cops.
“To serve and protect.”
they shouldn't be cops then wtf. They act like they deserve all this bravado and shit for putting themselves in danger and they are too scared to confront one kid with a gun?
In a confined space like that, there's not a legitimate reason that you'd be more scared of a shooter w/ an AR-15 than a shooter w/ a handgun. This line of thinking would more or less provide cover for failing to police most violent crime. Training needs to be better and selection needs to be tougher. The police being scapegoated and portrayed as evil, violent racists for the ~15 years certainly hasn't helped the morale among cops or police forces' ability to attract quality candidates
part of the job, can't wear punisher stickers and fly those blue lives matter flags and then get scared when its time to do your job
This has the be one of the stupidest things I have ever read on WallStreetOasis
If the police are not going to do their jobs, nobody is going to be able to stop an incident like this one. If it is impossible to create a safe environment for kids at school, we have a gun problem that can't be fixed by a adding a few additional regulations or a few extra police officers.
To make matters worse (depending on how you feel), police have no duty to protect you in situations like this or any other violent crimes thanks to a SCOTUS decision. They can sit back and do nothing and they can't be touched due to qualified immunity.
Interesting. Which case?
Why is this even a discussion? Even for the die hard trumpers? We need to get guns off the street, period. Starting with assault rifles. We have so many jails, just make it a mandatory jail sentence if you’re caught with a gun.
But if we can’t even stop the right wingers from inserting themselves into abortion, I guess we will never get guns off the street.
I’ll never understand how the Republican Party stay relevant in this country.
I agree. That would be the only way to protect the kids at school. Removing guns from society does not guarantee that bad stuff will not happen, but I would think that the probability of something terrible occurring would be lower compared to doing nothing, which has been how how conservatives have addressed this issue. All I keep hearing is excuses but no action.
You will never get guns off the street, and any form of gun control will do nothing to stop the flow of illegal guns.
In other words, do nothing?
Canadian/Israeli here, you're 100% wrong.
what if we stop the manufacturing of guns at the source?
dudes like this guy, the buffalo guy, sandy hook all got their guns legally. You think those fuckers can get an illegal gun?
So how come every other 1st world country in the world has managed to do it?
I assume you are one of the people who think these shootings are inevitable then.
Cops won’t do anything so citizens aren’t allowed to have arms. Do you guys intentionally incite chaos or does it just flow from your belief system?
Fuck them. I literally pay taxes so these assholes get shot instead of me. If they're not going to do their one job, why am I even paying taxes?
These cops also lied that the shooter had body armor. The armed school safety officer ran away. They cuffed parents that were arguing with them instead of going in and saving kids. An off duty border patrol agent is the only one that engage the shooter and was wounded.
Insane! And Abbot and that fuckface Cruz say good job and lets put more worthless armed security guards at school while they go attend an NRA conference the next day. These fucks have no remorse.
At this point the blowback on the cops and politicians is worse than on the shooter- no one is talking about him which they shouldn't anyway- no fame for the fuck.
Those assholes will get re-elected by huge margins too
now they are saying there are victims in 4 classrooms!, not one where he supposedly locked himself in. These fucks keep lying as to why they didn't go in. And there will be no accountability at all as cops always get away with it.
I think guns in the US should be viewed similar as the Swiss but also why they are that way(conscription). The drivers license debate is something I whole heartedly support, the taking a course before hand and registration aspect and think that should be the next step. On the cops running stand point…put them behind a desk or fire them and hire more ex serviceman. Tired of these glorified mall cops. Controversial but that’s literally your duty “protect and serve”.
Some reports are saying cops entered the building to evacuate their own children. Some saying cops didn’t enter as it was believed to be a hostage situation.
yep, seen this too
L, average amerifat "law enforcement" personnel. This is why China's crime rate is 11% of ours and we have literally 288x the mass shooting despite having 1/4 of the population.
China is an effective police state, while the US exemplifies what a failure democracy and liberalism is.
Username checks out
I think there’s passionate arguments on both sides of this and I like the notes people have posted. But I do wonder, of the people that fault the cops in this - have you ever shot an AR15?
I’ve owned plenty of firearms in my lifetime and there is no question that an AR15 is a very serious weapon. I wouldn’t say that people become afraid to shoot it but it definitely takes some getting used to it and I NEVER want to get to the point where I’m blasé about a rifle like this.
So to be scared to jump in after a deranged person is on site with one? Yeah, I’m 100% scared. I think any human would be, cop or not.
Lets be clear on a couple things:
All I am suggesting is that unless you have experience with an AR15 then you don’t really have context for why someone would hesitate to act in that scenario
I never shot an AR-15 but have shot AKs and other long guns, so understand the power of these weapons. Question is then how do you prevent this? Ban AR-15s? If cops armed with their own AR-15s are too afraid to engage someone armed with one isn't that argument that no one should have weapons like that?
I’m not sure I have solutions here. At least not popular ones. I am for universal background checks - parking lot transactions bother me and I 100% don’t engage in those. But I recognize that wouldn’t help here, most mass shootings have been carried out with legally obtained weapons.
I think I’d support checks around drug use, mental health but that’s such a complex topic that it will probably never come to fruition.
It's a serious weapon in the sense that any rifle is a serious weapon, but it fires a relatively small intermediate caliber bullet. What made it so effective is that virtually anyone can pick up an AR15 (or any ergonomic rifle firing 5.56) and control it without much difficulty. That's why it replaced the M14 in the American military. A full powered cartridge like 7.62x51 is obnoxious in semi-auto and very hard to control in full auto.
Should it scare you more than a pistol if you're on the other end? Absolutely. But we have well over a million people in this country who signed up (from ages 18+) to do exactly this, but worse. Because they're facing down fully automatic weapons, machine guns, grenades, etc. If a bunch of 18-22 year olds can fire back and not lose their shit when being fired on by full-auto AKs and worse, I would think the police can kill a single dude with a semi-auto rifle.
The police have had ARs (or other semi-auto rifles) in the trunk of their squad cars since the North Hollywood shootout in the 90s. There's no way these officers didn't have them available. They were just being little bitches.
As someone who has shot an AR-15 countless times, I fail to see your point here. The gun is the definition of tride and true, with no recoil, and a 30 round mag. If your job is quite LITERALLY to protect the general public, how is being fearful of using your weapon a valid excuse? There is almost no weapon I would rather hold than an AR-15 in the event of a school shooter, particularly if my job was to protect the people and take out said shooter.
I think that the average joe in Texas who owns an AR-15 and has fired it hundreds of times would absolutely not hesitate to kill a deranged individual threatening the lives of his or her children.
How the hell do you have experience shooting yet not see how badly the police failed here? They not only failed to do their jobs, but they failed to let PARENTS enter the school to idk God forbid, attempt to do what the police didn't. There should be no controversy around police failure here.
Active shooter situations are not targets that stand still on a sanitized range. Owning and knowing how to work an AR15 is completely different than having to control and unknown situation.
Again not trying to defend the cops or gun nuts or anything/anyone else. Just don’t cast stones, that’s all I’m saying.
As usual the masses squabble against each other blaming one politician or another or making absurd generalizations to create wedge issue divisions without calling for investigation on the specific department that was responsible for the inaction.
More often then not there isn’t some bigger picture ambiguous solution to such a problem (ambiguity is perfect for politicians as they don’t have to do anything), but rather something dysfunctional going on at a localized level.
TLDR: We should be calling for an investigation of that specific department rather than making generalizations about all cops, police department funding, gun laws, mental health laws, etc and proposing ambiguous solutions that achieve little because that’s playing right into the hands of the bureaucracy and career politicians.
Forever lockdowns & masking imposed by the government, cops won't do their job, and somehow the solution is to disarm the public? Am I following that line or logic correctly?
Aren’t the people who support forever lockdown and masking usually the same people who support defunding the police and disarming the public?
How on earth did you manage to shoehorn Masks into this discussion
What the hell are you talking about? Incoherent nonsense.
All are Democrat policies. Pretty easy to see the connection.
Police protocol in mass shootings is to kill or capture the shooter as soon as possible. After Columbine, police tactics changed to rush towards the gunfire as soon as possible instead of setting up perimeters and clearing rooms. The police chief is clearly covering up for the pieces of shit he hired who waited an hour to enter the room.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-les…
As for the debate on gun control: we need background checks and red flag laws. You shouldn't be able to get a gun if you have skeletons in your closet, and you should lose your right to have a gun if you act like a nutcase. The vast majority of Americans agree with these laws and their passage would not harm gun owners. The problem is any time politicians discuss even the slightest gun regulations, FOX news and co. fear monger like crazy act like the entire second amendment is going to be abolished.
AR-15s or assault weapons shouldn't be banned, it's just media hype. Criminals are more likely to use a glock or a revolver anyways.
https://www.npr.org/2019/08/20/752427922/poll-americans-including-repub…
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/may/25/steve-kerr/polls-cons…
We have background checks. Whenever you buy a firearm you fill out a form and the FBI runs a background check through their Brady Bill created system. If a crime comes up, they look into it to determine if a transfer of the gun is legal or illegal (within a few days). If it isn't legal, you can't buy. The exception is for private sales, which are typically amongst friends or relatives. "Universal" background checks aren't helping here - there aren't many legal private sellers being tricked by illegal felon buyers.
Red Flag laws probably would stop some (not near all) of these, but with severe civil rights issues. Most people who are weird and crazy aren't future criminals. You can't just strip away constitutional rights from people because they're weird.
On your other point, Fox and co have learned their lesson on gun rights (and only gun rights). Don't give an inch - ever. Liberals aren't being honest, they just want to ban guns and disarm the population. If they could get the SCOTUS to allow that tomorrow, they would do it. It's the shitlib ratchet. We just want tolerance for gays! (click) We just want gay marriage! (click) Bake the gay cake bigot! (click) We just want trans acceptance! (click) If you don't support prepubescant kids being pumped full of hormones you're an transphobe!
Modern progressivism is a disease and the primary feature is ever increasing radicalization. The right should only return to good-faith policy arguments when shitlibs stop being insane. Until then? Focus on stopping evil.
civil rights for gay people is a bad thing? go get some pussy man,
LOL go celebrate "pride" month in your "Protect Trans Kids" t-shirt you NPC retard
Only 78% of gun sales have background checks. There is a loophole and as recently as the '90s even the NRA agreed it should be fixed.
As for red flag laws, you are correct that a law that takes guns from anyone who acts 'weird' is unconstitutional, but if such a law did follow due process and the first amendment (threatening and such is not protected under the first amendment) it would be fine.
And your last point is just slippery slope fallacy. You realize that you can agree with liberals on some things and disagree with them on others right?
Crazy to think it is harder to get decent weed than a firearm in this country...
They should honestly raise the age for handguns and rifles to 21 and increase waiting periods. Hearing republicans blame mental health and other shiy is rich considering that Abbot cut social services in the state to fund his bullshit border mission.
Please, do go on since your blanket statement shows that you obviously have all the information about the current ins and outs of Texas law regarding firearm ownership and sales/transfers.
there's no waiting period in Texas and 18 yr olds can buy rifles and handguns. abbot did raid his state's budget to force the national guard to sit in humvees in the desert while slashing educational benefits for the NG. What am I getting wrong?
Not to sound like a hardo but if my kids are in that school there is nobody who is going to stop me from going in to try to rescue them. I can not imagine how scared they feel and to think that this went on for close to an hour bf LOs went in....let that sink in...around 40 minutes these little kids are hiding in corners, others getting shot... I am based overseas now and every time I think about going back home I see one of these stories I just am like WTF how can I raise kids in an environment where this goes on. This is not a political post, a 2A post, just a wtf as a dad post because it really hurts my heart. I remember doing fire drills at school when i was in elementary school That these kids have to do active shooter drills and its beyond sad to me..
State by state firearm laws will never work. Needs to be regulated at federal government level. That won't happen either. Pretty saddening to think about...
Corrupt GOP. Only way out is to leave America.
I personally am not ready to condemn the police for not rushing in to confront the active shooter. I read Drumpfy’s article and while it seems police have determined that the most effective strategy is to run towards the gunfire, it did not say that all police departments have been trained in this tactic nor that it is the protocol in place at all police departments. More investigation is required to determine if the police in this situation failed to implement protocol in order to save themselves. That would obviously be a problem.
The thing we have to remember is that the officers were dealing with incomplete information at the time. The number of active shooters wasn’t known (we now know it was 1, but it could have been 2+ such as Columbine). Heck, they probably didn’t have an accurate description of the shooter and when you have literally moments to react to a threat, you’re at a huge disadvantage if you need to assess whether or not your target is the shooter or just a teacher before firing. The police officers also didn’t have fancy tools such as in infrared lasers to know exactly where in the building the shooter was, what type of weapon(s) he had, etc. I don’t know how prevalent gang violence is in the area, but they could have been worried that it was gang related and there were multiple well armed and properly trained shooters.
I’m not saying the cops were innocent and behaved appropriately, I’m just saying we need more information before we condemn them. Imagine the scenario where a bunch of parents were permitted to run in after their children and they all got shot and killed? Or parents ran in and shot a teacher or student by mistake? Let’s wait until we know all the facts before declaring guilt.
Great response - it’s easy to jump to conclusions or form narratives based on incomplete information, especially when the subject at hand is so sensitive. The one concrete fact that’s known is that for one reason or another, several cops were outside a building where a lunatic was murdering innocent children, and that fact alone is enough to force a preemptive discussion on the events that did or did not take place
It is mind-blowing that anyone in their right mind considers normal that an 18yo kid can buy an AR-15, let alone the majority of a community (as appears to be the case here). The fact that you as a country look at yet another school shooting and don't immediately decide that at the very least assault riffles are a bit too much to have out there tells me you'll never get even close to solve this problem.
If only there were other countries that faced similar issues in the past and now have no gun problems that you could use as example...
Bingo. Here is a graph of mass shootings in the U.S. The red line marks when Republicans let the assault weapon ban expire in 2005.
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