Williams vs Amherst
I am considering an ED to one of these two colleges next year. I like them equally. I know williams is considered better than amherst by most people; my question is, how different is the prestige on the street? I would appreciate what you might think is a parallel comparison among bigger schools to put it in context for me. EG. you might say williams to amherst is similar to uchicago to northwestern, respectively. I also don't want an equivocating answer (ex. they are equal. obviously not true. or it depends on if you are okay with living in williamsburg. I dont give a shit). If i did I'd go to reddit.
Also, will I be significantly hindered if I am not an athlete in recruiting? I am aiming for evercore/lazard/gs/ms, HF, or MFPE seat. I have 4.0/4.9/1600 and top ECs (research w/ decent quality pubs, USAMO, nonprofits, UN speaker, shit like that), so I can easily get into uchicago/yale/duke ED and have a solid shot at Harvard/MIT/Pton. I just prefer LAC environment, would prefer williams/amherst.
Of course by asking this question i'm giving up the fact that I have partiality to Amherst, or I'd just apply to Williams ED regardless. Ignore this when you respond.
Williams to Amherst is slightly closer than Harvard to Princeton. Close enough that smart people may genuinely believe the consensus underdog is better for specific reasons. But largely agreed on.
Evercore/Lazard and top BB definitely possible from both, but as a non-athlete it probably goes from a mid-high target (Dartmouth/Duke) to low target (NYU stern, Cornell). MFPE right out of a/w rare. p72 possible, other top HF v v rare.
Just REA Yale. It's impossible to not have fun at HY (not including P, MIT, Stanford on purpose). And they'll like you as a STEM-strong applicant, as I think you know considering you put it in the same difficulty tier as uChi and Duke for yourself. I'd lean into STEM on the app. Apply for applied math and if you really don't want to study it just switch to Econ as soon as you get in. A/W is a solid tier or two below for finance recruiting.
I appreciate your direct personality. You'd do well in banking.
Thanks, you are correct about the yale/duke/chi thing. I will consider this.
100% agree on the fact that as a non-athlete Williams & Amherst lose their target status. I'd go as far as to say it goes from a target to a semi-target if you're not an athlete.
For OP, I'd also ask why do you like the LAC environment so much? I went to Williams/Amherst/Middlebury, and I can 100% guarantee you the environments there are more like "glorified new england boarding schools" than they are "liberal arts colleges" the way I'd consider an Oberlin, Swarthmore or hell even Wesleyan to be.
In your shoes, I'd much rather target Yale for ED.
Also OP, aside from your great 4.0 & 1600, your extra curriculars of "research w/ decent quality pubs, USAMO, nonprofits, UN speaker," while simultaneously being a non-athlete, I am 99% sure you are not going to enjoy your actual experience at Williams/Amherst. There isn't really an "intellectual culture" there, the way there would be at Yale (or even UChicago).
tbh i think OP should REA Princeton. gets the best of both worlds if they want to do finance or quant.
Williams for sure - fits in with HYW
If you like the LAC environment so much, why not just apply to the better school in Dartmouth?
Also, even with those extracurricular, I’m not sure if you’re a shoe-in at any of these schools…
I go to Williams — GS recruits quite a bit here but it’s pretty much just athletes + diversity. Outside of GS/JPM/Gugg I don’t think being an athlete matters so much, but other top banks only take 0-2 people a year (for this summer I think MS took 1, Evercore took 1, and Lazard took 0). Not sure about HFs but only know of a few people getting MFPE internships. Definitely very doable to recruit for finance here if you’re set on LAC (alumni network is great and there’s not a lot of competition since it’s such a small school) but if you’re serious about going to an EB/top BB etc as a non-athlete just REA Yale imo
And the "diversity" are white women athletes lol. It's absolute fiction that you get a "diversity boost" at Williams.
Not sure I’d say it’s absolute fiction since GS at least takes some actual non-athlete diversity candidates, but yeah most people here getting hired through diversity pipelines are rich athletes who went to expensive prep schools
Dude you're a USAMO qualifier - one of the 250 best U18s in america in math. Idk what you're interested in banking for. People like you end up at prop shops or absolutely hating their banking / pe job.
I think you should focus on MIT / Princeton (esp princeton which will still give you the feel of a liberal arts education). If you're dead set on LAC, would highly rec Harvey Mudd where you'll get an A+ math / stem education while still getting exposure to claremont consortium (can take class and be part of social community at Pomona, Claremont Mckenna).
Seconded on Princeton giving you that liberal arts education feel.
What about the Amherst/Williams/LAC scene do you like or prefer over places like Yale/MIT/Uchicago? Based on your ECs and stats, the other places will be far more intellectually stimulating / you'll get along better with the majority of people (which, even though you want to go to college to get the best IB/PE/HF job possible, college is where you hopefully find some of your life-long friends).
I don't go to a LAC but during my cycle I didn't meet a single Amherst/Williams kid during superdays that wasn't an athlete. IMO, being an athlete at a private T20 school will always be better than a non-athlete but at LACs the pipeline is far more tailored towards the athletes. IMO, it'd be better to go to a place like Cornell/Duke than A/W as a non-athlete.
Yeah dude please rea to Yale they really dig stem applicants (see yes scholars) and your profile would get you in fs as long as you don’t fumble the essays. Very liberal-artsy vibes/ppl
i second this. a couple close friends did aime and a summer program in science and got into Yale
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I go to a/w, apply to princeton rea bro and do quant you're usamo, it'll be work you'll find more interesting if you really do like math and stats and you'll blow IB out the water in terms of comp. but if you do like a/w and want to do ib/pe:
amherst sends a great deal to EBs, williams to goldman/gugg/citi
great alumni network. Heads of groups, capital advisory and M&A at goldman, pjt, evercore are some a/w alums, along with many of the tiger cub founders (Tiger Global, Viking) and some buyside shops like General Atlantic.
Very hard to get MF PE though possible (2 ppl that ik), but UMM PE very possible. Also MF PE candidates are typically HYPSM + Magna/Summa Cum Laude (top 5-10% of class) + IB/Buyside internship + Top Finance Club on campus. Oftentimes, very unrealistic to break in out of undergrad.
Athlete bias i understand, but tbh if you're likeable you can land those roles. Ik a few non-athletes who landed top EB and got superdays at legit 90% of the banks and buyside firms they interviewed for. athletes at any school want to refer other athletes on the same teams, and same with clubs as well ( the super competitive ones especially have strong networks).
Less competition than the 2% acceptance rate clubs at columbia and way less hardos. to the college i go to, there aren't as many nepo afaik, most just are good friends with the seniors who end up as analysts. Less hardos as well to compete with.
It's hard everywhere. My buddy at Y/P/S said that only 5-7 ppl max get coverage/M&A at Goldman. It's hard everywhere going to a top school is like 10% of the game (though it is a non-negotiable prereq most of the time).
Amherst founders from top of head - Sixth Street, Raine, Sylebra capital, Monarch Capital w many more/tons of seniors across the street. Williams equally as many founders and both schools pull for each other
these are a bit random ngl. but co-founder of bain capital an amherst alum and general atlantic ceo. Founder of Merrill Lynch an amherst alum too
I went to Amherst, was not an athlete, made it to an “Eb” as they say and now am at a MF. You will be fine if you go to Amherst. You’ll be fine if you go to Williams too, or Yale … all very good schools
Ignore title. Went to A - MF PE now. The alumni at A/W are gold. Helps when everyone picks up the phone and refers you... the LAC cult is real, and argue it makes A/W stronger than many targets regurgitated here
What sport did you play
Didn't/not diversity. End of day it is hard at every school regardless of background. Successful kids will be successful anywhere - you will be more than fine
I'm also a little rusty but last I checked MF PE is legit impossible. Looked at what other people said above and there is a huge presence of A/W kids at Tiger Cubs (former partner at Coatue, analysts at d1, Maverick, Tiger Global, Viking).
At the end of the day it's your choice. Princeton seems more of a place to nurture your math background and gives you the freedom to do quant if you change your mind (and probably even easier to break into quant there than high finance), and you get the liberal arts feel.
Either way, Amherst Williams will set you up for success just as Yale/Princeton can as well. All are ridiculously prestigious institutions
Would you say Georgetown is a strong target and better than Williams, Vanderbilt, and CMU for ib and mbb?
Vanderbilt is a semitarget and CMU a non-target tbh
I majored in Economics at Williams College. Most people tend to fondly remember their undergraduate years, and that often leads to overly rosy retrospectives. So here’s my brutally honest take.
Frankly, my experience was mediocre. I can’t think of any truly standout moments that I wouldn’t have had at another top-tier school — but I can think of a number of downsides that I might have avoided elsewhere. Chief among them: the extreme winters and the campus' seclusion.
The isolation isn’t just a social or cultural matter — it had real, practical consequences. For instance, when recruiting season came around, I didn't have a car, and taking a 5–6 hour Greyhound to New York was a logistical and mental drain. I ended up attending fewer in-person interviews, often arriving tired and behind on coursework.
Seclusion also limits the campus’ exposure to the real world. It can become an echo chamber of ideas that feel disconnected from what’s actually happening elsewhere. For example, the Computer Science department lagged far behind peer institutions in terms of curriculum and resources. Similarly, I noticed a lack of diversity in career paths and perspectives: almost everyone interested in finance pursued the same IB/PE pipeline, as if sales & trading, hedge funds, or quant roles didn’t exist. That’s the downside of attending a small, isolated school where mimetic behavior is strong and options can feel artificially limited.
On a personal level, I also think the weather and isolation negatively affected my performance — not academically (I had a strong GPA), but emotionally and motivationally. I felt bored, unhappy, and often unmotivated outside of class. It wasn’t until I moved to a warmer, larger city after graduation that I realized how much better my quality of life — and my drive for serious career development — could be.
While Williams is technically a "liberal arts college," I didn’t find much that felt either “liberal” or “artistic” about the student experience. The social scene was dominated by varsity sports teams, which often acted like pseudo-fraternities — insular and cliquish. As one of my political science professors once remarked, “Most people come here to play their sport and find their spouse.” That observation, while harsh, rang true. There was a noticeable lack of vibrant, deep intellectual culture on campus.
If I were OP and could do it all over again, I'd target a bigger school in a major city (Harvard, Stanford, Duke, and UChicago all fit the bill).
Would you say Georgetown is a strong target and better than Williams, Vanderbilt, and CMU for ib and mbb?
No familiar enough with Georgetown to have a view, but I think reputationally it's considered below Williams. Williams is a tier above the other names you mentioned.
I'm just saying I would have targetted bigger name schools (Harvard, Stanford, Duke, etc.) in major cities.
I don't put much stock in the peak frameworks rankings. Williams isn't even on the list.
Also, listening to US News which ranked Williams the #1 LAC is what made me end up there in the first place. The older you get the less attention you give to these rigid rankings.
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