Rates Sales or FX Structuring
Hi, want to hear the pros and cons of those above roles. Currently in the rates sales seat, covering a few meaningful clients. There are potentials for more meaningful client coverage if I stay. Problem is I find it slightly hitting plateau on learning curve. i have decent relations with my clients and am able to find my own way to add values (apart from getting them a good price to trade) but still feel like a price monkey… The senior on the desk seems to have a lot of promises on the desk futures but I see zero execution.
I would like to move to a more quantitative role, gaining more experience in pricing and derivatives/non-linear products experience. Thinking FX structuring would be a great place to switch. Any advice is appreciated on potential exit/comp diff
Also, currently in Toronto, and would like to move to NYC/London so any insights on this is appreciated too
FX structuring could (not necessarily) be more complex than the rates seat you are in. However, the complexity often comes from building esoteric/bespoke products - it is a much slower paced role and is not client facing. I would think rates structuring is better than FX structuring.
However, I don't know what you cover (presume USD and CAD rates?) and what types of clients you cover, but perhaps you could try to move to Rates Hedge Fund Sales? That is a pretty fast paced role there where you will consistently be exposed to the whole breadth of rates products (cash, futures, linear derivatives, nonlinear, inflation, etc.). Doing that role can be quite rewarding (both from a learning, career, and financial standpoint) - and rates sales can move in to trading should the opportunity arise (I've seen it happen). Would you have any interest in staying in sales? To be honest, whether you are in trading or sales roles at a bank you are always going to be a 'price monkey' to some extent because that is your job as a liquidity provider...
Is it the complexity you want more of? Or a change in scope of your role? Rates is a very technical market - even linear rates (swaps, bonds, asset swaps, etc.) present a large number of opportunities which you can learn about and pitch to the clients / trading desk.
Have you actually seen people go from Rates Sales to Trading at a HF?
At the junior level, not so many examples I personally know of going straight from sell side sales to buy side trading. At senior level, yes there are a number of rates sales people I know/know of who have landed roles in macro HFs as portfolio managers. However, you can go from sell side sales to sell side trading which is much more common (if you are working with your traders all day on client requests, trust me it really isn't rocket science for a sales person with the right skills to move over). Then you can move to the buy side after, if you want to.
Thanks for the inputs. Yea unfortunately haven’t seen much of a rates structuring presence here at my bank. I think ultimately I would love to be in more of a discretionary role. Currently most of my important coverages are treasuries, which gives me a good understanding of swaps/asw. HF coverage does sound sick cus I always see their structures being the most complex.
Feel like buy side may be the way to go, thoughts on a treasury trading seat? Feel like a good treasury that can take on discretionary risks are the best
1) To be honest, I am not fully convinced structuring is a step up from rates sales given your goals (others with more experience feel free to correct me). Structuring tend to work on very complex deals, and that knowledge doesn't necessarily translate into markets/risk management/etc skills.
2) Regarding treasury trading desk, I think that is possible to go from those seats to buy side trading/PMs (know of a few examples just by word of mouth) but, admittedly, I don't know much about what the actual day to day is - maybe someone here might know more (I don't want to give wrong advice, but I have heard about treasury businesses running risk).
3) Absent of a role change, is there any room to do rotations for other coverage areas in sales (e.g. HF sales)? You could ask your manager to rotate around to continue learning about the rest of the franchise/something to that effect (?)/speak to the HF sales more. This strategy depends on your bank and the culture in sales there, but longer term if you could get moved to the NYC office I think it would be a great opportunity... You could also try to just casually get a buddy/mentor in HF sales to catch up every know and then to learn about their role.
What you can do in the mean time is working on skill/knowledge development so you are prepared to jump ship if it comes to it after not getting the internal opportunities you want:
- Develop a really solid understanding of your products and markets (lots of people make careers out of linear rates trading, which relies on them understanding the products and market micro-structure). Have a think about what your clients' portfolios look like and think critically about how the portfolios may react to different scenarios of rate moves (market pricing for path of rates in US has changed a lot recently) - can you find ways to help them protect against these in limited downside/convex ways?
- Have a go at pitching some ideas to the trading desk/HF sales and see what they say (basically zero downside at this point). There is a lot going on in macro markets at the moment (this past week has been insane), so opportunities will likely arise in all corners of the market!
- Learn some basic statistics/PCA/regression and have a go at seeing if there is anything you can extract from the swaps/ASW/UST markets (if you want to move to buy-side at junior level, lots of places will test quantitative skills)...
Bit all over the place, but basically you should consider what your options are internally to help you get one step closer to your goal and in the mean time just continue to develop such that when the spot opens up you are ready to hit the ground running. Let me know if anything unclear - but hopefully someone else replies re: bank treasury division role (worth having catch ups with people in those teams to ask them what they actually do on a day to day basis).
Thanks for your insights! May I ask that which rates products would only require Fin/Econ major?
Nobis exercitationem illum vitae asperiores quis. Error nam id consequuntur ad minima. Est molestiae eos corporis voluptatum. Quae molestiae exercitationem et officia sequi voluptatem voluptas.
Sequi ipsum id sint tempore placeat dolorem aut. Et sint aliquid quibusdam corrupti sunt maiores nulla.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...