Advice for summer and return offer rate?

Recently accepted a summer internship offer with a top bank/mid-top group from a non-target. Our group is fairly large with a big intern class. Does anyone have any specific advice for the summer? I have a tendency to worry that I won't get the return offer since there are so many interns and because of how competitive it may be.

investment banking return offer rate

Getting a return offer depends on multiple factors. The economy, group performance, firm size and so on. This means that offers can be extended to between 40% and 90% of interns. So if return offer rates vary year to year and firm to firm, what can you do to increase your chances of landing a full-time role? The answer lies in the question itself. Focus on winning an offer not on how many offers are given. Here's some great advice on winning an offer from a certified community member @JoeyJ

On top of what everyone else has said, the most important thing is to do good work. Don't be afraid to ask questions but try to figure things out on your own and using the Internet first. Don't keep going back to an alayst with questions one at a time as that is annoying. Get a list of a few and then ask politely if they have time to answer a couple questions. Don't fee bad if they say no, they are likely just too busy, so try to ask people who don't look too busy. Print out your work to check for errors, you catch way more on paper than on the screen. When doing a turn with comments, highlight each comment in a light color as you make the change. Make sure all comments are highlighted, and then double check each one and highlight them again in a darker color after they have been double checked.

On your first day, get your computer linked up to multiple printers. 3 color and 3 black and white. Make sure each works. Learn how to send event invites and set up calls. Use another intern you became friendly with as a test. Become friends with other interns, they will be going through similar experiences as you and it's good to have them available and it's good to help others too, people will notice.

leave a traceable trail on the work you do. If someone asks for 10 data points. In your file you should have all 10 and links to where you got it from, which will make the ft persons job easier. Show genuine interest in learning from those sitting around you if they are open. If you finish at 11 and the analyst next to you is teaching you about something, ask them questions even if the topic doesn't seem all too important. Let them know you if they want to leave then just interrupt and say so but if they are enjoying teaching you then continue to learn and show interest.

You want to work for as many people as possible so more people vouch for you, but don't take on a workload you cannot handle. Doing great work is more important than doing the most work. On the flip side, it's important to work with a handful of people multiple times so that they will really push for you if you do well. It's even better if these people are well respected in the office. Becoming very close with at least one member on a personal level is also very important, as they may give you this kind of information and tips along the way.

I definitely missed some things as I am just ranting on my phone as things come to my mind right now but if you do all of this you will be in a good spot. And don't be cocky, that's the worst thing you can do. Be friendly, polite, and show respect to every single person at the company


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Comments (61)

Apr 6, 2016

Return offer rate not only varies by bank, but by group and specific group needs in that year. Instead of focusing on return offer rates just do the best work you can. I came into my internship with a point of view that the job was mine to lose. Of course I have always been optimistic. Since it is a large group just make sure that you get to know a lot of people, but be sure not to spread yourself too thin.

As far as more general advice, do not think that any assignment is below you as often times this is where you can actually shine. Analysts aren't going to have you cranking away at a model without double-checking your work. However, if you can show them that you can do the simple stuff like edit pitchbooks correctly then by the end of the summer they may trust you with some more meaningful work. Don't forget to also stick your head up and be social. Being well liked will always score you extra points.

    • 1
Apr 6, 2016

Agree with everything said above. Some banks hire twice as many interns as full-time positions they have to fill, others hire less. My biggest piece of advice is that first, working hard and doing a good job is very important. Make sure you double check your work/make sure it is high quality, and learn from the mistakes you do make. You're going to make mistakes but you are going to learn a lot too so if they can see your progression your odds will be a lot higher of getting the offer.

Second, and at least equally important as doing quality work, you have to be sociable and someone they like working with. Not everyone is a good fit for a particular bank, but if the people you are working with like you and think you are personable your odds are much higher. If you're a cocky shit intern who thinks he knows everything, see ya. Its already assumed you are more than capable of learning what you need to do the job, the biggest thing to the people hiring you is if they can stand to be around you 16 hours a day.

Also, on a side note, make friends with the analysts you work with. They're gonna be the ones it will be easiest for you to relate too and at the end of the day their recommendation will go a long way towards you getting the return offer. If they like you and can rely on you to do quality work, you'll get the job.

    • 2
Best Response
Apr 6, 2016

On top of what everyone else has said, the most important thing is to do good work. Don't be afraid to ask questions but try to figure things out on your own and using the Internet first. Don't keep going back to an alayst with questions one at a time as that is annoying. Get a list of a few and then ask politely if they have time to answer a couple questions. Don't fee bad if they say no, they are likely just too busy, so try to ask people who don't look too busy. Print out your work to check for errors, you catch way more on paper than on the screen. When doing a turn with comments, highlight each comment in a light color as you make the change. Make sure all comments are highlighted, and then double check each one and highlight them again in a darker color after they have been double checked.

On your first day, get your computer linked up to multiple printers. 3 color and 3 black and white. Make sure each works. Learn how to send event invites and set up calls. Use another intern you became friendly with as a test. Become friends with other interns, they will be going through similar experiences as you and it's good to have them available and it's good to help others too, people will notice.

leave a traceable trail on the work you do. If someone asks for 10 data points. In your file you should have all 10 and links to where you got it from, which will make the ft persons job easier. Show genuine interest in learning from those sitting around you if they are open. If you finish at 11 and the analyst next to you is teaching you about something, ask them questions even if the topic doesn't seem all too important. Let them know you if they want to leave then just interrupt and say so but if they are enjoying teaching you then continue to learn and show interest.

You want to work for as many people as possible so more people vouch for you, but don't take on a workload you cannot handle. Doing great work is more important than doing the most work. On the flip side, it's important to work with a handful of people multiple times so that they will really push for you if you do well. It's even better if these people are well respected in the office. Becoming very close with at least one member on a personal level is also very important, as they may give you this kind of information and tips along the way.

I definitely missed some things as I am just ranting on my phone as things come to my mind right now but if you do all of this you will be in a good spot. And don't be cocky, that's the worst thing you can do. Be friendly, polite, and show respect to every single person at the company

    • 16
Apr 6, 2016

This is great advice, not just for IBD but really for any type of role.

Apr 9, 2016
JoeyJ:

+1

This is stellar and should be more noticed.

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Apr 7, 2016

All this is extremely helpful. Thank you!

One advice that I found to be just a little confusing is, what does it mean by getting to know everyone in the group, while trying not to spread yourself too thin? It seems a little counter-intuitive. How does mid-summer reviews work and things of that nature? It seems like it is a daunting task for the staffer especially since the summer analyst class will be so large.

Apr 7, 2016

What I meant by get to know everyone is not literally go out and have coffee with everyone or something of that nature, but don't be afraid to speak up specially at social gatherings. You want most people in the group to be able to put a face to the name. However, the bigger focus should be on doing good work for the select amount of people you will be working under. In terms of the mid-summer reviews, in my experience people you work with review you and submit it to the staffer. The staffer is more like the medium for that communication.

Apr 8, 2016

At my bank, for the end of summer review all of us full timers gather in a room to discuss the analysts. The head of running the interns for the summer within our group brings up each person one by one and opens the floor up for comments. If a group that has a lot of spots to fill and the market is strong, all it might take to get an offer is a handful of people saying yeah he/she was good when I worked with them without anyone saying they had a problem with the intern. Being known is great, but in my experience only people who worked with you are taken into account. So if you form a good relationship with someone who you haven't worked with, you want to try to get staffed on a deal with them.

When spots are limited due to market conditions or for whatever reason you can't control, this would likely not be enough. A handful of yeah he was good would be beat by someone really vouching for you and a few others saying yeah they were good. And even better than that is someone In a position of power really vouching for you. Power doesn't mean MDs as they largely don't get involved. A VP or a top rated analyst/associate can be that person, anyone who is highly respected and someone who people would not want to cross.

You don't know what the hiring conditions will be like, so you want to make sure a large number of people know your name and have worked with you for at least a bit to say you've done well. But you also want at least 1-2 people who you've worked with consistently who think you did a great job, like you, and will really vouch for you.

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Apr 8, 2016

That makes a lot of sense. I guess to go along with that, how exactly are the markets for M&A? Obviously, 2015 was a fantastic year, but there's been a lot of ups and downs for this current year and it is difficult to gauge what conditions might be like for this summer.

Apr 9, 2016

spot on

Apr 10, 2016

At my place they said throughout that there was a job for every one of the interns if they were good enough. In the end out of the intern class they took on around 70%.

A lot of people have been focusing on work load, however the social aspect is important too (this is coming from someone who is very much afraid of social interactions!). Make sure that every day you get coffee with an analyst or associate, don't be afraid to ask and don't be afraid to be rejected, they are most likely very busy or have just been.

During my internship some of the older associates even took me for lunch and we would talk for a couple of hours giving a fantastic insight into their experiences and you can also get informal advice on yourself.

[I'll caveat my response with the fact it was based in London and over the Autumn]

Apr 12, 2016

Did you get return offer? What type of group were you in? (country, consumer, healthcare, leveraged fin etc?)

Jun 29, 2016

A late response is still a response.

I did get an offer for Industrials coverage team.

Apr 11, 2016

People tend too focus to much on external things that we can't control.

The only thing that you can control is your attitude, effort, and actions. Worry about being the best you can be and the things you can't such as return rates, etc. will work themselves out.

Jun 29, 2016

look it up with the search function - there are already some solid threads about FT recruitment. Just know that the FT process has significantly tightened in recent years, such that the vast, vast majority of FT hires are done from the intern class.

    • 1
Apr 12, 2016

Given the uncertainty around return offers, would it make sense to go through FT recruiting just in case?

Jun 29, 2016

Also interested!

Jun 29, 2016

Do you know if the current fund you are at is explicitly open to bringing on interns for full time?

In addition to the items you mentioned, some of the other focus areas for buyside include being able to work more independently and demonstrate that you can evaluate companies/markets with an investor mind set.

Jun 29, 2016

that is correct about GS. I've heard otherwise for MS. I would take my chances on MS.

Jun 29, 2016

if you go into it thinking you might be in the bottom 30% that's likely where you will end up.

GS is known for hiring a shitload of SA's and having a relatively low conversion rate, but most other banks are not like that. You even said that MS is normally in the 70-90% range, so why are you even worried?

Jun 29, 2016

I'm worried because I don't trust that much HR marketing BS...

And no I will definitely not be in the bottom 30% if I'm assigned specific tasks.
I'm really strong technically and know my stuff, I just have to avoid failing at fetching coffee and such.

But I'm really bad at all the networking and ass-licking stuff.
I actually stopped GS process halfway trought when I learned that there were no "formal rotations" and that the bank expected you to go running in circles looking for some comprehensive MD to push for your offer...

Anyway thanks for your answers, if this is GS specific then I'll stop worrying and focus on what's important.

Jun 29, 2016

Bitter prick that sucked at his internship. Seems like he had a shitty attitude the entire time. GS is known for having a lower offer rate than some of the other banks, but that doesn't mean he was SOL. Must have really fucked up recruiting for FT to get nothing with GS on his resume.

Jun 29, 2016

Morgan's recruiting process is a bit different from a lot of other firms. Other firms (i.e. Goldman) have a 'weed out' mentality, i.e. they'd rather wildly overhire for the summer and take more than double the summers they need to fill their FT class, throw everyone into a pit, and let the dirtiest, meanest ones survive from the scrap. Morgan has a 'weed in' deal, where the recruiting process is much more challenging but if you get the summer offer, the FT offer is yours to lose. After taking so much pain to get to know you and bring you in, it's disadvantageous to have to go out and bring someone else in during FT hiring. There are naturally the ones who realize the industry isn't for them and who self-select themselves out plus the ones who can't cut it, but other than that, it's a very, very high offer rate.

Jun 29, 2016

From what I understand, the low offer-rate thing for GS only applies to S&T. I've heard that banking is in the 80-90% range, where the people who didn't get FT offers were ones who just generally weren't a good fit.

Jun 29, 2016
asiamoney:

From what I understand, the low offer-rate thing for GS only applies to S&T. I've heard that banking is in the 80-90% range, where the people who didn't get FT offers were ones who just generally weren't a good fit.

I don't believe so. I had a good friend who didn't get his return offer, smart, humble, mentally quick guy who I can't believe wouldn't have succeeded. He said they were very frank on the last Friday -- it was simply a matter of headcount.

Jun 29, 2016
asiamoney:

From what I understand, the low offer-rate thing for GS only applies to S&T. I've heard that banking is in the 80-90% range, where the people who didn't get FT offers were ones who just generally weren't a good fit.

I have heard differently, that GS' low offer rate definitely applies to IBD.

Jun 29, 2016

.

Jun 29, 2016

if this is how you feel I think you should reconsider S&T...

Jun 29, 2016

^^don't know about S&T but definitely IBD corp fin stuff

Jun 29, 2016

Who told you MS converts 70% of their S&T interns into full time? Is this for NY? Because my friend just mentioned last night, that her friend worked at MS in S&T in NY last summer, and out of about 30 interns, they gave 7 full time offers (or maybe only 7 accepted, but even so, the offer rate couldn't have been very high). Maybe she misheard but I doubt it.

Asia is a different story though.

Jun 29, 2016
bcf2011:

Who told you MS converts 70% of their S&T interns into full time? Is this for NY? Because my friend just mentioned last night, that her friend worked at MS in S&T in NY last summer, and out of about 30 interns, they gave 7 full time offers (or maybe only 7 accepted, but even so, the offer rate couldn't have been very high). Maybe she misheard but I doubt it.
Asia is a different story though.

Last year in London, 38 ou of 55 interns got FT offers.

Jun 29, 2016

Does anyone else have input on the GS IBD FT offer rate for SAs in New York? I've continued to hear really conflicting information.

I know IBD interns who said like 6/7 or 11/13 of people in their group (depending on its size) were given return offers and that the people who didn't were clearly not meeting expectations. I've heard people on WSO swear that the rate hovers closer to 60%.

Someone I spoke with assured me that the reputation for a low offering rate is purely due to the securities division (which apparently does definitely have a low rate), and not banking. Any comments on this?

Thanks!

Jun 29, 2016
asiamoney:

Does anyone else have input on the GS IBD FT offer rate for SAs in New York? I've continued to hear really conflicting information.

I know IBD interns who said like 6/7 or 11/13 of people in their group (depending on its size) were given return offers and that the people who didn't were clearly not meeting expectations. I've heard people on WSO swear that the rate hovers closer to 60%.

Someone I spoke with assured me that the reputation for a low offering rate is purely due to the securities division (which apparently does definitely have a low rate), and not banking. Any comments on this?

Thanks!

I've been told by someone in IBD there that it is indeed lower than other banks.

Jun 29, 2016

lower rate..i even asked an MD about it and he got really pissy

Jun 29, 2016

Bump

Jun 29, 2016

Bump...

Jun 29, 2016

There's nothing too difficult about this. Keep doing a good job and he'll give you an offer. If not, move on. Plain and simple, really. Do what you can that you are able to control. I wouldn't keep pestering him though.

Jun 29, 2016

bump

Jun 29, 2016

try the search function....there was a thread specifically dedicated to this...S&T is a bit tougher sometimes and tend to have a lower conversion rate compared to banking...

Jun 29, 2016

yes.

Jun 29, 2016

First person in last person out is probably fair in your situation, but sometimes stupid in IB. You've gotta be smart with your time. I know people who interned with me who often stayed later than I did and didn't get offers, because people thought they weren't efficient and work they were doing shouldn't have taken as long as it did (I'm guessing this is why). On the other hand, I'd get my work done, and ask if others needed help - if they said no, I'd bounce ASAP - note, this still had me leaving post-midnight basically every day.

First in last out in good in theory if you mean it to represent work extremely hard, but better advice is to determine what the culture is like at your bank - if you don't literally need to be first in last out every single day, get some rest and come back refreshed for the next day instead of sitting around wasting time.

Jun 29, 2016

Eat shit with a smile and don't whine, even to junior guys.
Don't be a retard and make sure you have a senior guy advocate. I know a MD i worked directly with is a huge part of why i got an offer.

Jun 29, 2016

I'll let others with S&T experience opine on whether passing 7 and 63 during the summer is valuable, but assuming it is:

If you pass the 7 by mid-July you'll have NO trouble with the 63. It is seriously like 10% as difficult as the 7. So, don't be afraid to give yourself more than half the summer to pass the 7.

Jun 29, 2016

Speak less than you think you should.

EDIT: This advice does not apply to questions.

    • 1
Jun 29, 2016

Do well....

    • 1
Jun 29, 2016

You throw MS at me but there's no secret here. Do your best, be the best you can be. No other strategy.

    • 1
Jun 29, 2016
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