Numerous times I've made it through numerous rounds of interviews to be shut out in the end. In the current process, I've had three phone interviews and they flew me in to meet the team one morning. Got a very positive phone call about three weeks ago saying the team thought I was the strongest candidate (but they had one more interview), heard they'd be making a decision this past week, and I haven't heard. I know it's not a for sure "no" at this point, but it got me thinking that they are likely working out something with one of the other candidates (i.e., I'm likely the fall-back option).
It got me thinking... is it normal to feel resentment towards an employer that shuts you down or thinks of you as their second or third option, whether you know that or not? I've heard that jobs aren't girlfriends, so "get over it," but I actually think I am the opposite. I don't want a committed girlfriend, so I don't care what one of my "partners" does, but I would want a job for several years, so I personally do feel some resentment towards employers that turn me away.
Curious how many of you are the same, how you deal with it, etc...
I feel like I am burning too many mental bridges.
Good thread and I was actually thinking of making something similar about how you guys get over getting dinged. I think sometimes it's a mix of bad luck and the fact that this industry is a numbers game to get in. In my brief soph sa hunt experience I feel I get taken less seriously because I'm a non-target. So far I've interviewed at 3 BBs and am hoping I can get some more coming. Quite frankly, I wish I could have a boxing match against my last interviewer and break their eye socket. I was literally phone-screened out of nowhere while I was driving. No email notification prior at all. I felt it was such a shitty thing to do but I really thought that firm was a horrible fit prior so maybe it was for the best. I know people will say "oh well you'll get more chances" but nothing is given in this industry and I absolutely fear that soph SA recruiting is pretty much done.
Were you wearing your cut-off-sleeve hoodie? That's your good luck charm.
I know it's crazy frustrating and stressful. I hope you are casting your net to include non-BB firms as well. You could always try lateraling later.
Woop got em
LOL yes. I showed up in boxing hand wraps, a cutoff t-shirt, shorts, and shoes in case a motherfucker wanted to square up. Sometimes I feel like uppercutting the white people who apply to diversity programs.
Of course I would love to work at a non-BB but unfortunately almost all of them don't have sophomores and the ones that do only take women. In fact, I actually think I would rather be at a MM or EB than a BB.
You're only a sophomore... you'll live. No need to be fearful of striking out with BBs, they're very difficult to get into regardless as a sophomore.
Was the random phone screen DB? They did that to me twice. And then wanted to schedule my superday at the exact same time as another BB I was interviewing with, and couldn't find a way to move it.
No but it was one of the BBs on this forum known as one of the most "white-shoe" on the street. Think JPM/MS.
Honestly I have no beef with it because it was probably for the best but I'm starting to think MM & EBs are more welcoming but they don't have soph programs which is ok. DB will be back and has cool people.
Of course it's normal to feel resentment in this situation. You might work in finance, but you're still a human being. You took the time to interview (remember, the company needs employees too...you're not just some desperate sap wasting their time), and they don't have the decency to give you feedback or to even get back to you. I honestly think this is a result of junior employees in the financial services industry, whether they are auditors; IB analysts,; PE associates; tax professionals; etc., being viewed as resources, not employees. You are viewed as a machine who cranks out financial models, not as an employee who contributes something of value. If you ever move into industry, it gets better, as non-financial services companies cannot afford the high turnover that comes with treating junior employees like resources.
All that being said, just keep pushing ahead. You might end up getting the last laugh, like I did. I interviewed at a BB, had many people go to bat for me, and never heard back after my superday. I was crushed because I worked so hard, and this was THE bank that I wanted to be at. Fast forward two years later, I'm now in corp dev. We're interviewing potential associate hires. As life would have it, one of the candidates whom we're interviewing is from the BB that gave me shade. Guess what? That associate was not hired. I had nothing to do with it (didn't even interview the guy), but it was funny seeing the reverse happen to someone from that BB.
Lol, funny you mention that second part. While I probably wouldn't have hard feelings towards random employees from that company I interviewed at, unless I interviewed directly with them or knew they had a say in my decision, I do often think "Well, if I have a stroke of luck in the future - maybe I create a product or service that the firm I had interviewed at needs or if I somehow compete with that firm - I am going to give my best effort to fuck them over so hard." And it's kind of funny to me that I think like that because I am more concerned if I should feel resentment for being shut down rather than wondering if it's normal to feel a fierce competitive drive to fuck over said firm. I think I read too many books on businessmen in the Victorian Era...
I felt anger more so than resentment when a BB interviewed me for a lateral position and then went with an internal candidate. Run your frigging internal process first and complete it before going outside. If you had a strong internal candidate why waste my time? I'm an associate, I don't have much of it. Particularly because it was a three round process.
yep why play with people's emotions!?!?!?!
bro, I am right there with you... interviewed with four companies over the past six months, all for very similar roles, and made it to the final round of each, only to NOT get the offer. Same thing happened with two other groups last year. I am batting 0/6 in the past 18 months, and have a heavy resentment towards a few of groups.
That sucks, man. I sincerely hope shit turns around for you. The longer the process, the more empty you feel after each denial. It's tough to start back at square one.
FYI, I got the official denial today. Despite being very friendly and professional, they are on my shit list now lol
When you get a buyside offer be like tupac and tell them "That's why I fucked your bitch you fat motherfucker"
Right? I just saw that this last group I interviewed with reposted for the position, and they told me there were 200+ applicants the first time around. Two month process, four fucking rounds, three in-person, and it took the last round to determine that you want to screen 200 more candidates?
Holy fucking shit
edit: As butt hurt as I am, and have been, at the end of the day, I have a job that I like and am well compensated for, so I shouldn't complain.
This is the epitome of first world problems.
Bit of resentment (Originally Posted: 10/30/2013)
I'm getting onto the trading floor but it's ridiculous how many young bloods lack street smarts. You don't have to fully know your product to sell the shit out of it. Fact. Disappointed.
Suggest ppl in st get into medical
Getting into finance is very competitive and hence difficult. Polluting yourself with negative thoughts and disliking some guys for choosing someone over you (for reasons you'll never know anyway) is counterproductive and only hinders performance in upcoming interviews.
I understand that it may hurt your self-confidence, but that's just the part where you need to be a pro and move on.
Not sure why people are throwing monkey shit at you. SB.
F*cking haters, bro
Depends on who you're selling to.
I would never want to be selling to top hedge fund managers without knowing my product.
Sorry it's not the 1980s anymore, bro.
People on trading floors sell products without understanding it fully all the time. You're probably doing it wrong.
I love this thread. Have had tons of bad experiences -
1) Went through a multiple interview process with a HF, with a case study and presentation, got good feedback after the final round from a VP/principal, and the firm just ghosted on me. Sent multiple follow-up emails, a couple voicemails no response.
2) Got an offer from a lower middle market fund for a summer associate position. They called references, did a background check, then told me a few weeks later the position was no longer available because of internal issues, and that I should keep in touch.
Your soul goes to a dark place with experiences like this.
Honestly there have been times I've wondered about the limits of perseverance with this stuff.
When a firm is ghosting on you after multiple rounds, persistent good feed-back, and you think its the perfect fit, when do you know to move on
Just went through this. You don't know unless you keep pestering them. I actually started to feel I was becoming annoying to the HR rep because I sent so many update requests. I guess if they don't reply at all, you sign them up for Cat Facts if you were fortunate enough to get their cell phone number.
How did it turn out for you?
Fuck HR. I literally have had my application go from "selected to interview" to the bs "thank you for applying" shit they send to avoid a lawsuit all because I asked when the interview would be.
I guess I'll be the only one to mention that it is not normal to feel this level of resentment. If I received an offer for every position I applied to, I would feel that I would not be challenging myself enough. A certain level of rejection is a sign of stretching yourself to set career goals at the length of your experience's reach. It is healthy and normal to be turned down from some places and it would be mentally healthy for you to move on.
I suggest building a CV of failures as Princeton professor Johannes Haushoffer did.
Honestly this is a straw man argument. Not one person has suggested that a certain level of rejection is not normal.
There are however some experiences, or after a certain number of awful experiences, where it gets to people. Thats what this thread is about.
The OP had three phone interviews. I would say that is a normal amount of rejection. A lot of people ITT are hoping these firms fail, etc. What a puerile attitude to take when it could literally be that most of the people on the hiring team liked the person and genuinely hope they do well.
This is a good idea. For me, rejection is the best motivation.
In some ways I think its good to have an internally composed "fuck you" attitude. If they don't give you an offer then, "fuck them", it's their loss.
There are a few situations I felt resentful due to what I saw as the employer not treating me fairly. Starting a 30 minute interview 20 minutes late, then only giving me 10 minutes takes the cake.
I don't think the issue here is getting rejected. Getting rejected is part of the game. What is ridiculous is the level of unprofessionalism and disrespect some companies extend to candidates. If I tried even a tenth of the stunts I've seen companies pull on people (even those who have gotten deep into their recruitment process), I'd be blackballed from the industry faster than it took me to write this post.
This is a very fair point. Classic case of abusing a position of negotiating leverage. Surprise surprise, firms that are more "fair dealers" tend to be ones with better cultures.
Agreed. Rejection is cool and normal, but there should be a certain level of courtesy provided to candidates who have taken the time to interview with you. If anything though, it just reflects a poor culture on behalf of the company.
I interviewed 2 years ago at one of the Big 4 for audit, which was my only interview at the time. I had a ton of resentment towards one of the interviewers (the office managing partner) when I didn't get the position, so I can only imagine what you feel given the comparative degree of competitiveness in finance vs accounting.
6 months after the interview I landed another audit position (bring on the jokes), and simultaneously the same guy I had resentment towards was receiving tons of negative press for something he had done. Thinking about it still puts the same size grin on my face, as if I just heard the news.
Keep on grinding and hopefully something works out for the better.
It's disturbingly common for firms to not get back to candidates after interviews. It doesn't take that long to create a form email that says "sorry, you didn't get the job", so I never really understood this. I've even had this happen after flying to another city to interview.
1) I don't understand how they can't send automated rejection letters as soon as they decide not to pursue you. 2) If you follow up and they don't respond, especially after receiving a lot of positive feedback (like OP) that reflects a lack of character in them. 3)There are some really nice and at the minimum respectful hr people out there and I enjoy interviewing with them. Unfortunately, the respectful and professional ones are the minority. Sometimes I feel like some HR people go into HR to be in a position of power. Maybe they got rejected so they became HR reps to hinder other people's success. 4) I don't know how or why the unprofessional and rude people even work in HR.
Well, mine was quite friendly. The only thing I disliked was the waiting game and drawing out the process to ~3 months. Everything else was pleasant.
HR is truly the waste of society
"HR is truly the waste of society"
Seconded.
If there ever was an experience i know a guy would resent a firm it would be this:
My friend's elder brother (an international student) was a SA at a BB, and then got the return offer. They even paid him the signing bonus and all year he was excited and in july when training was starting he gets a call 10 days before start that they have adjusted hires and have different plans now so are either moving people around or just letting ppl from the new analyst class go as they wont need that many anymore.
they gave him a 10k check and that was that,
the worst thing was that he is international and didnt have any backup plans (why would you when youve signed on an offer months ago), so he had no other option but to return to africa
Do you even bother putting that on your resume? Of course you'd put the SA on there, but like...e.g., "May 2009 - May 2009" for the analyst spot? I think there is some value that he was hired, but at the same time he wasn't...
nah you prolly just put the SA stint and say got the return offer
Firms want to keep their options open, so they may not reject you right away. It's business people, don't take this shit personally.
As far as feeling bad about being the firm's second choice: Imagine if you got to bang the woman who you consider the hottest/most desirable on the planet, but you found out she would rather bang Ryan Gosling than you. Are you going to not bang her? Only if you are a complete fucktard. It should motivate you to lick her pussy a little better, go a little deeper when you fuck, and play around with her poop chute if that's what she wants, to prove that you were the better choice. Don't let your pride fuck with your opportunities.
When you learn to not to take things personally, you'll be much more effective. Do what's right for you and don't worry about how butthurt you feel for not being the priority for everyone else on the planet.
You'll only hurt yourself.
That actually makes great sense. B-b-b-but...what...just what if....I can't "go a little deeper" due to physical limitations? Move on to tongue punching her fartbox?
Whatever it takes.
Totally normal to feel this way. It can be slightly painful for a bit, but if you are a motivated individual, you will eventually and naturally turn this into motivation. You get better with each and every interview, sounds trite but it's true IMO.
I recall an interview where a very senior partner started attacking my (top tier target) MBA program and overall just being a total dick at the end of a very successful superday and overall process. This guy clearly got rejected from the school or something, he was way too angry and went to a much lower ranked school undergrad/grad school to boot - it was odd. He had already made it big, i don't know what his fucking issue was... Anyhow, that too passed and I eventually achieved my goals and then some. This said firm has now laid off a ton of people and one of the biggest gripes was it's senior leadership was all jacked up. I don't take pleasure in that but it goes to show you sometimes it can work in your favor to go find another opportunity. Take the stinger and move on. My next opportunity came shortly after and it was a wonderful bridge to the buyside. Sounds a bit immature, but the day i updated my linkedin to show where i had landed, was a beautiful day.
Thanks for the response. Yeah, and I think it did wonders to just sleep on it a few days. I'm over it.
Been there hundreds of time, everybody gets dinged. Just get over it.
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