Do you want your wife to work?

YungMonc's picture
Rank: King Kong | 1,247

Disclaimer I realize this question is geared toward men. I would appreciate female input as well, but my assumption is most women expect/want their husband or future husband to work. Also, just to cover my bases, I don't assume men are the only ones married to wives and women the only ones married to husbands....

With that out of the way, what is your preference for a wife/partner to work Versus stay at home? Does it make a difference to you? Would you have an issue with a potential partner preferring to stay at home or work?

For those already married/in a long term relationship, does your partner work or stay at home, how does this effect you, and are you happy with their choice?

For me personally, I am in a long term relationship and prefer a dual-income household (as we have now), but my girlfriend wants to have kids in the near-term and stay at home without steady income for 10+ years. She currently earns around 1/3 what I do. Living in a high-cost of living city and still having student debt worries me, even though I am making very good money right out of school. To afford a down payment on a good home with one income would be tricky in the next 5-7 years.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Comments (165)

Mar 21, 2017

Disclaimer: I'm married and this is the expectation that my wife and I have.

Before kids, absolutely. It's great to have two incomes (even if one is way larger than the other) but another reason is that I don't want her to be lazy.

After kids, up to her. Again, it's great to have two incomes but childcare is expensive and there's a lot of value in having the ability to be flexible (kid gets sick and she doesn't have to take off work, work is super busy but an hour frees up for lunch then she can bring the baby and come see me). There's also the possibility that she hates staying at home and wants to go back to work so it's fluid.

Mar 22, 2017

+1 SB

I agree, my wife is in publishing so she's never really going to make big bucks, but childcare is expensive. What is the marginal utility for an extra $30,000 before takes to have a stranger raise your kid. It's not that I don't want my wife to work, but it's how she expresses how much she misses the baby. But then by Sunday night I don't think she minds going to work on Monday. I think ideally if she were to work part time, it would be a healthy balance.

Also to the younger guys or guys not married, she can't work from home AND take care of a kid. I don't care how easy the spam bots say it is to "make $650 a week from home".

Also, lastly. You don't want your wife bored at home, I hear way too many stories, from guys WAY older than I divorced and someones wife is doing the tennis instructor. It's a movie cliche for a reason. Since my wife is in publishing it's great, you never hear about all those butch meathead stylists and prop crafters over at Women's Day magazine.

Mar 21, 2017

Her benefits are better than mine, plus the second income ever hurts, so yes.

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Mar 21, 2017

Yep, DINK lifestyle - Dual Income No Kids - at least to save up for bigger purchases ie. house, car, kids, drugs, minivans etc.

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Mar 21, 2017
Wallstreetneversleeps:

Yep, DINK lifestyle - Dual Income No Kids - at least to save up for bigger purchases ie. house, car, kids, drugs, minivans etc.

Co-sign DINK as the way to go

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Mar 21, 2017

Yep, DINK lifestyle - Dual Income No Kids - at least to save up for bigger purchases ie. house, car, kids, drugs, minivans etc.

one of these is not like the other

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Mar 21, 2017

Yea minivans are TERRIBLE

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Mar 22, 2017
Wu_Tang Financial:

Yep, DINK lifestyle - Dual Income No Kids - at least to save up for bigger purchases ie. house, car, kids, drugs, minivans etc.

one of these is not like the other

LOL, didnt catch that hahahaha

Mar 21, 2017

Dual Income No Kids. Saves for Kids. Great

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Mar 22, 2017

Doug funnie's neighbor in the nickelodeon show -Mr. Dink. Notice he always had money for new inventions and no kids.

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Mar 23, 2017

Yes exactly, "very expensive"

Mar 22, 2017

ha DINK. As if your saved half of the apartment rent is less than buying nice dinners out, couples vacations, jewelry etc. My expenses increased by double having a wife and she doesn't even like the fine things like lobster and steak. But women like to go out and have a nice $20 drink somewhere.

What I'm saying is it's a net loss. ;)

-Happily Married w/kid

Mar 23, 2017

I must be a real cheap ass.

Mar 26, 2017

Lobster and steak are fine things?

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Mar 21, 2017

Another thing to consider is economic value added...if she stays home, how much would it cost to pay for everything she does?

I've done that math and if you live somewhere like NYC the figure is pretty high. If you take it a step further and she's relatively well educated enough that she can contribute to one of the co-op schools in New York then you make that exponentially greater.

Mar 21, 2017

Work 100% even with kids.

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Mar 21, 2017

She makes more....so yes

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Mar 22, 2017

Somebody got lucky ?

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Mar 21, 2017

100%, no question about it.

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Mar 21, 2017

I like how you guys get to say leave the kids to your wife. I fully support this, but wait until a LIBTARD comes into WSO

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Mar 26, 2017

Staying home with kids all day sounds like the pure definition of hell. Solution: don't have kids. WTF is the point.

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Mar 21, 2017

My wife worked up until we had our first kid, and hasn't gone back since (~3 years). She sacrificed a lot early in our marriage, moving around the country on four separate occasions for me to pursue various jobs, and ultimately when I went to b-school she was our sole bread winner for those two years, walking away from a job that would've sponsored her own part-time MBA in order to move to Chicago with me.

After we had kids I always wanted it to be her decision. I secretly hoped she would choose to be a 'stay-at-home' mom, since I am kinda traditional like that. At the time she was probably making about 1/3rd of my income and we were renting but reasonably comfortable. Now if she went back she would be closer to 1/6 or 1/7th, which after tax and daycare expenses for two kids is like literally <$10k swing in our bottom line. Just not worth it. I think when our kids get a bit older she may eventually want to go back in some capacity, but time will tell.

I will say I think it is MUCH better for the kids to have her home. Kid #1 goes to daycare two days a week so still gets the social thing figured out, but I think she benefits a lot from being with someone who cares about her above everything else (vs. someone where it's their job; nanny, daycare etc). Just my 2bps.

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Mar 26, 2017

What will she do after the child starts going to kindergarten?

That is the biggest problem with this arrangement.

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Best Response
Mar 21, 2017

I would just like a steady girlfriend to plow on the reg before I start worrying about marriage.

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Mar 26, 2017

Sex is hell. I hate sex.

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Mar 26, 2017

/thread

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Mar 26, 2017
RobberBaron123:

I would just like a steady girlfriend to plow on the reg before I start worrying about marriage.

Why ever worry about marrying though? Just dont do it brah.

Mar 21, 2017

Don't care but she better have dinner ready when I get home.

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Mar 21, 2017

I'm single but looking for wife material. I also want 3-4 kids. I say get her to work for as long as possible while the first kid is still a baby (pass the baby off to my mom during the day) Then when it becomes a toddler she'd hopefully retire and do something passive from home making an extra $20k while rearing the kids. Before I get called a sexist, I'd find a girl who wants this as well. You might be a career minded woman, but that doesn't mean a large percentage of girls aren't traditional when it comes to this

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Mar 21, 2017

No wonder your still single. Soft! :(

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Mar 22, 2017
ewqfegf:

I say get her to work for as long as possible while the first kid is still a baby (pass the baby off to my mom during the day)

Ha, just wait til you actually get there. I would suggest dropping this idea from your head now, speaking from experience.

Mar 22, 2017

"I would suggest dropping this idea from your head now, speaking from experience."

This...coming from experience as well.

Mar 27, 2017

Why the fuck do you want 4 kids? You gonna help the world's underpopulation crisis?

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

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Mar 21, 2017

My wife made the equivalent of about $200K when she stopped working to take care of our first kid. 100% worth it in almost every regard. When she stopped working when he was about 1 year old, we kept the nanny. Once again, still worth it for sanity. Happy wife = happy life.

As a male, you will never be as good of a parent as your wife. You might wish you could, but you won't. Especially in the early years (before puberty).

One thing to consider is that if you are the high earner, your income will rise less quickly if you are co-parenting equally. When you have kids, if you come home at 9 pm or 1 am, it doesn't matter, you still won't see your kids.

The ability to do that client dinner or take that last second business trip without having to worry if your kids are ok is invaluable.

On the other hand, if you're taking turns dropping off/picking up the kids from day care, good luck with your career. At a bare minimum, get a live in nanny. That won't be the same comfort as having your wife with the kids.

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Mar 21, 2017

My wife was in a similar position and now is going crazy less than one year in with our child. We don't have a nanny so that could be it.

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Mar 26, 2017

Men are better parents and that's a fact.

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Mar 22, 2017

may I ask wtf the point of a nanny is if the wife isn't working?

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Mar 21, 2017
BobTheBaker:

may I ask wtf the point of a nanny is if the wife isn't working?

1. To ensure your wife doesn't go insane (so, you can still have sex)
2. To make sure she has plenty of time to hit the gym

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Mar 21, 2017

Very valid point. When we are past the first couple years I plan on asking mine to stay at home, at least until the kids are in grade school.

Mar 21, 2017

nah i want my girl to be my baby mama

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Mar 22, 2017

This may sound old-fashioned so interpret it however you want.

My wife worked full-time before we had children and I left it up to her. Together we made the decision that we didn't want to outsource parenting. We both decided that we wanted to be the primary influences on their lives and not simply have them when we're tired after work or when it's convenient (Not saying that it's right or wrong to put kids in daycare all day while the parents are out earning as many couples don't have a choice based on where they chose to live and cost of living expenses). She now stays at home with the kids and believe me, her job is much harder than mine - anyone that doesn't understand why, have two children under six and you'll see ;). As far as finances go, it all depends on what your priorities are.

This is a big decision and should definitely be made together as a couple unless you don't view your wife as an equal partner.

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Mar 22, 2017

I am a guy and I could understand why people say things like that, but on the other hand, I can't help but wonder, is it too selfish to ask the woman/wife to automatically just give up her career/life and just focus on being a stay at home mom? I get it why people say that women are better parents and instinctively want to do that, but for women who are well educated and also had an equally successful career especially before this happens, I think it's very unfair. Basically it's saying that as a female, you need to choose one, you either choose to have a husband/kids and then give up career or you just your career, while we guys get to have both.

I just feel bad for women who want both.

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Mar 23, 2017

All the lady monkeys, @vikkk will now be accepting girlfriend applications. Please PM him for details.

Mar 26, 2017

Men are better parents. That's actually been proven. Are you still living in the decade you were born in? You do realize that population is peaking and women don't really want kids anymore, right?

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Mar 22, 2017

Hi there, we should allow our wife to work.

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Mar 22, 2017

Allow? You don't own her...She is your equal and your partner is crime.

No, I'm not a feminist and neither is my wife - just raised to respect women.

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Mar 25, 2017

Dude,

Do you believe that women deserve equal rights to men? Congratulations, you're a feminist.

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Mar 26, 2017

Gotham, he's probably foreign. When they learn English for the first time, they typically don't utilize the strongest word choices. Cheers to the melting pot... yeah...

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Mar 22, 2017

As a woman, I don't necessarily expect my future husband to work full-time.

You just have to find something that works for the family - and that takes a different form for every family. I know someone who worked two days a week, and spent the rest of the week looking after her kid. She made no secret of the fact that those two days were a huge relief and she would look for any way to spend time away from her daughter.

She ended up divorcing her husband: being a parent was too much for her and her husband wanted more kids. Her husband, who was at an elite law firm, took a position with better hours so that he could have as much custody as possible.

What I took away from this was that both partners need to be able to retain their identity. Maybe this is by letting the grandparents have the kids for a day or two each week, maybe this means going cycling or going to yoga class with old friends, maybe this means working, maybe this means immersing themselves into parenthood as much as possible.

Go back three years, and I would have said that I expected my partner to take time off when we had kids. After spending time in the real world, in a job that I don't love, I've kept on thinking about kids, and I think I would prefer to take some maternity leave if the opportunity arose.

As it stands, my partner has mentioned taking paternity leave and eventually going back part time if and when we have kids. He would be a better parent than me (more patient, calmer, more nurturing...), but I do think it would be something beautiful to have some time to focus on the things that matter to me. Funny how opinions can change so much over a few short years.

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Mar 22, 2017

Before kids my wife worked full-time. After two kids now she works part time - 2 days a week in the office and able to work from home the rest of the week, which rarely is actually required. I couldn't imagine a better setup. She actually still brings in a decent paycheck, but her job has almost no stress and is incredibly flexible. It gives her something to care about and put her education and work experience to use, but still allows her to focus most of her attention on the family. I travel a lot and I get in the office really early. If she was working an 8-5 job we would have to have a full-time nanny. I personally think the time at home and dealing with the kids, especially in the early years, is a lot more valuable than whatever additional income she may earn from working full-time. In the end everyone has to figure out what the right setup for their family is, but this is working really well for us.

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Mar 22, 2017

Have you seen the hordes of stay at home moms at Whole Foods in their gigantic SUVs?

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Mar 22, 2017

I don't have kids but I have always thought that two parents working is a good idea. The reason why I think this is because I knew someone (when I was growing up) whose parents were both high earners until the father got into a bad accident and had to basically be out of work for half a year and after that only worked part-time and never was able to really work full-time again. Thankfully since the mom had never left work, she was able to support the family. That's always stuck in my head and that's why I am a proponent of two parents working. Life just happens sometimes.

********"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money." - Jerri Blank********

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Mar 22, 2017

Goal is Dual Income No Kids for a few years after marriage to save $$$. Then once we decide to have a kid, I'll likely be making enough to be able to reasonably support a family on one income. Ultimately, I'd like for her to only work part-time at most until our kid is off to college. After that (and let's be honest, even before that) the choice is really up to her.

Mar 22, 2017

I'm definitely a proponent of both parents working full time even after kids. My dad was a c-suite (so he was always traveling) and my mom was a doctor (long hours). There were some times where I would only see my dad for one week out of an entire month and my mom usually didn't come back until 7:00 or so. I've never once felt that my parenting was "outsourced" to any of the nannies / babysitters I had and I also consider my mother and father to be, far and away, the two biggest influences in my life. I would guess that most people end up doing whatever their parents did, but I don't think it's right to force / expect your wife to give up her career to raise kids, which is a decision you both decided to go through with.

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Apr 19, 2017

Good response and also good info to know for the future - I worry about this a bit since my situation is loosely similar (still early innings so I'm nowhere near senior management level, but my serious gf is about to do residency).

Mar 22, 2017

MGTOW so they don't take half my stuff. At least until Canada fixes it's abhorrent Family Court system.

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Mar 22, 2017

Yes, if I marry some woman I don't want her to have all day to sit around and spend my money.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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Mar 21, 2017

I love how people keep using words like "have" and "must" for nannies...I'm pretty sure most people - my parents included - figured out how to get their kids to school, activities, etc. without a nanny, while both working normal hours. Nannies are nice luxuries for sure, but a luxury nonetheless. Also, not having a stay at home parent does not mean you are outsourcing your parenting, again, that is ridiculous - if anything recent evidence shows children of working mothers benefit more than their non-working counterparts. This isn't to say its better to work just highlighting a point that a stay at home parent isn't some massive gift that is otherwise not available to children of working parents.

Ultimately people should do whatever they want and don't judge one another in either direction.

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Mar 27, 2017

My parents did the same and my wife and I are doing that as well. However, at least 1 needs a LOT of flexibility if both parents are going to work. On normal days, we function fine, but there are very many abnormal days..... I travel, we both have meetings, kids get sick ALL THE TIME.

For us, my wife is the one with a ton of flexibility. She's a teacher so she gets out pretty early and can take days off as necessary. March has been a really bad month for health in our family, but between my 2 little dudes I think my wife missed 6 days this month (I missed one). At 11pm my 2 year old was crying, I went in his room and he puked everywhere......I slept on the living room floor with him last night, but my wife is home with him today.

twitter: @CorpFin_Guy

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Mar 22, 2017

Here is how I imagine is the best way to do it. DINK it up until your early-mid 30s and enjoy your life. This is the time to do everything you've wanted to do (achieve career goals, travel, buy a cool car/house). This time also helps both partners build an independent and strong character through their career and experience, Have a kid or 2 between 35 & 40. At this point both parents should make enough to easily afford an nanny. Sure, you might be a little too old to play soccer with your kid, but you'll be a calmer, experienced, and intelligent mentor for him/her to guide their lives. I feel like a lot of people have kids too early these days before they figure themselves out.

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Mar 22, 2017

Sounds like a lot of folks here should just be a dog owners...because looks like raising children would be too much of a burden. Plus, it seems like many of you view your future wife as a business decision more than anything else. As is rampant in this industry, it's pretty apparent that money and your own time are your biggest priorities - which is okay, it's your choice but let's call a spade a spade.

Or, you could follow the traditional banker dad plan, only get involved in your children's lives when it's convenient (certain sports games, maybe a recital or two, and then just respond as "their doing fine" anytime someone asks you how your family is like 90% of our senior bankers that have kids). Besides, nannies are great - look at my VP, learned Spanish before English and doesn't even have to call his dad's admin to get on his calendar for a lunch here and there. Talk about unfettered access!

Even better, since you're going to wait until you're 40 to have kids, you will likely get a front seat when you flash that AARP card at your kid's high school graduation. And, let's not forget to mention the handicapped parking pass for your arthritis - great parking +1! Assuming you're still mobile, or even alive by the time your children get married, you may or may not be able to sit your grandchildren on your lap and tell them all the cool Wall Street stories about how you stayed late to get a really special LBO done and played a key strategic role for some company or other, because that's more important than playing catch with them or interacting with them in an actual way that they will remember when you're long gone. No other success can compensate for failure in the home.

The point is please don't view your wife as just a business decision (you'll probably never land one anyways if you do) and for all of us, please don't have children unless you really want a family and not just a couple of pictures in your wallet so that you can fit in with the crowd at happy hour. I see this way too often.

As for the cool car and house - kids don't stop you from that. You do. ;)

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Mar 22, 2017

Entering into a contract that gives another human being access to half of your belongings is a business decision "let's call a spade a spade". 50% of marriages end in divorce, don't be silly it is a contract like any other.

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Mar 22, 2017

.

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Mar 23, 2017

Don't disagree with what you're saying broadly, but do specifically object to the age bashing. Plenty of people don't find someone they want to settle down with till later in life

Mar 23, 2017

lol, +1

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Mar 22, 2017

I'd really like my future wife to work. Lots of studies show that kids benefit from having two working parents. My dad got fairly sick for a few years and lost his job, and thankfully my mom had risen up enough in her career to be able to pay the bills those few years. If she had taken time off, there is no way she would have ever made it up to where she was and would have 100% lost the house. Also as a word of advice to the ladies, my mom does have a number of "Country club friends" whom, in their 50s got divorced (A lot due to the husbands losing everything in the recession or from cheating spouses). After 20-30 years of being a stay at home mom, not one of them was qualified for a real job and no one wants to take the risk of hiring a 55 year old to do the job a 25 year old can. A lot of them are now stuck working minimum or close to minimum wage jobs in their late 50s, not exactly the dream life. I do know of a young guy who, luckily enough is a software engineer making well over 100k, has to support his mom because she cannot find a job and his dad died.

EDIT: Obviously these are horror stories, but it's always smart to prepare for the worst. A working wife can do a lot to help keep stability in hard times.

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Mar 24, 2017

And? Who cares? You just told us about Gold diggerz hitting the eject button, only to find out their competitive advantage no longer exists. Doesn't answer the question of whether you want wife to work. It just tells us whether you want to lose money in the recession or not.

Mar 22, 2017

Opened up with I'd like her to work and then gave a number of reasons why.

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Mar 22, 2017

Sign me up to be a stay at home dad.

Mar 23, 2017

You know how hard it is finding a gal that knows how to cook Asian food?

Generally I do most, if not, all the cooking. All my of ex's have made generally close to 2x-5x more than what I make. I am hoping to opt out and be the stay at home dad.

Mar 23, 2017

I'm not sure about wife, but I definitely want my husband work

Mar 23, 2017

100% yes she better work. The days of women getting a free pass in life are LONG gone - thank god

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Mar 25, 2017

My darling wife let me know that she would not be a single parent. Don't know about your plans, but at a BB, that means Senior VP or Director status before you can comfortably be home to be a second parent. I've seen associates that have kids, and they want to die. I talked to one director with a new born, he said he hadn't had that little sleep since he was an analyst.

On the income vs. childcare question, can't bring up enough that just getting out of the house and doing something, even if it's breakeven on cash, can save her sanity, and by extension, yours.

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Mar 23, 2017

Yes, for me it's non-negotiable. I can't imagine what I would talk about with someone who doesn't work. We'd have nothing in common and I wouldn't want to spend my entire time talking about kids (even ours). Secondly, my mother stayed at home and I saw exactly what it entails. Once the kids are at school (so post age 4-5), it's a part time job at best. I have no intention of working my ass off to fund someone going to yoga and lunch for half the day.

Mar 26, 2017

Yeah I have friends who literally only talk about their kids. It's rather banal. I physically tune it out and walk away. It'll be funny when the kids are older and the parents are left with no life and no self love. Like the girl who ditches all her friends for her man!

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Mar 23, 2017

my wife and ran ran boban man both work

Mar 26, 2017

Makes no sense

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Mar 26, 2017

Just let the liquor do the thinking and you'll understand.

Can't knock the hustle of a triple income household . . . a man's gotta eat.

Mar 25, 2017

At the same time, and this is even with my previous comment in there, while my darling wife was 'retired', ie: not working and not looking hard for work, I felt like such a
baller

when she told her friends about how I made enough that she didn't have to work if she didn't want to. You could almost see the gears churning in their heads about how to place themselves as wife #2 if I became a widow.

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Mar 23, 2017

you need to learn the pros and cons of staying at home vs. going back to work

Mar 24, 2017

"... my assumption is most women expect/want their husband or future husband to work" as a female, I think that is a very archaic view

Mar 21, 2017

This a forum for finance professionals/future finance professionals and is heavily, like probably 90%+, men and few (read: none) want to be stay-at-home parents. Operating under those assumptions, it's not odd that OP only mentions wives staying at home, but the second part of his disclaimer covers husbands/same sex partners. So calm down and don't go all SJW because the OP wasn't explicit enough for you.

Mar 26, 2017

Dude this is 2017 going on 2018. This isn't Mormon / Crazy Christian era :) No one needs to stay home with kids when you don't have any.

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Mar 26, 2017

As a female I think it's an archaic view to ask me if I will be having kids one day. I don't go around asking men when they'll be multi-millionaires.

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Mar 24, 2017

My girlfriend and I (been together almost 4 yrs) want to live that DINK lifestyle. She's going in Landscape Architecture which she genuinely loves (Just got into Harvard and UPenn graduate schools of design). We both love nice cars, we love to travel, etc etc. If I end up making into some sort of lucrative profession then we might want to adopt. But at the very least 3 dogs. She does not want to go through everything associated with childbirth (both pre and post) and I do not blame her because I sure as hell wouldn't want to. Also she HATES kids, especially really young ones, before the age where you can sort-of reason with them.

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Mar 26, 2017

Oh I guarantee that'll change. You're young. I am 33 and I'm the only one who isn't interested in children and it's staying that way. I've seen many couples say they don't want kids and that never works out. One always caves (usually out of boredom, insecurity, or a desperate attempt to feel less alone).

Mar 24, 2017

It might, but it might not. Kids are not for everybody, and if we get bored enough to want them we can always adopt, as I mentioned earlier.

Mar 24, 2017

As a PANK (professional aunt no kids) -- it is a very personal decision. A lot of people make the case marginal economic cost of childcare vs a dual income household, but one has to think long term. There may well be a time - particularly in the current financial services environment - where one or both partners will lose their job...as someone who left the business for a few years to go to consulting --- it is nearly impossible to get back in on the same trajectory -- if only a few years behind. Also I personally think its important for the potential stay at home partner to weigh the pros and cons of the psychological benefits of work (particularly if that person has been career minded in the past). All too often I've seen couples 10-15+ years into the marriage when the stay at home partner resents giving up their job, micromanages the working partner, and the relationship starts to fall apart because caring for the kids requires less cooperation. To the future non-working partner -- find something you love as work and own it -- run a non-profit, teach, write, open a small business.....the world is so much bigger than Wall Street - but sometimes it is difficult to see when you are there.

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Mar 24, 2017

+1 YoungSally, You make a fantastic point - staying home does not ever mean don't "work". Too often we are bound to the idea that work pays a base, bonus, and 401k. If you are stay at home and your children are of school age -- you now have 7-8 free hours a day. I'm assume the stay at home partner is also taking care of home operations (errands, groceries, meal prep, etc.), that would take MAX 4 hours on a peak day, which still leaves you half a conventional workday to yourself.

Finding a passion and honing it as your life's work is critical, to both working and non working partners

Mar 24, 2017

My wife just gave birth to our son (first child) 3 months ago and is still on maternity leave, so I have a small amount of perspective to add. The short version is I believe my wife will go crazy if she doesn't have a job and feels stuck in the house all day. I also feel like single-income households are just too fragile to shocks that are completely out of your control.

She likes staying at home with the baby to-date and has actually cried during multiple daycare interviews we've had while thinking about the prospect of leaving him with someone else. However, she is also going crazy being in the house all the time with the baby, and it's not easy to just get out of the house with him due to winter, him being hungry/cranky, prep time involved, etc.

Personally, I 100% want her to go back to work because I hate the downside risk if I were to die unexpectedly and her and my son would not be taken care of. Yes, I have life insurance, but here in the real world, unexpected cash windfalls like that nearly always (1) get spent quickly on random shit and/or (2) screw up people's lives/perspective. Most people are better off with a regular source of income instead.

A lot of that also applies if, heaven forbid, we get a divorce or something like that. I don't want her out on an island with no relevant work experience for the past several years and find herself unable to get a job. That happens to divorced moms in the real world as well.

The dollar costs of childcare are not material compared to her salary+bonus of 150k in a corporate strategy role for a public utility. Even if she takes a paycut to find a job that has better hours, the $2k a month we are looking at doesn't compare to what she pulls in from her regular job.

We also both grew up in divorced households with a single mom basically carrying the load, and are thus probably not slanted towards the more traditional "dad works, mom stays at home" arrangement.

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Mar 24, 2017

Curious question, non-topical:

We don't have life insurance policies out on us yet (aside from standard work contributions), but isn't the common thinking to have 5-10x current annual salary of the one the policy is taken out for? That way, the widow/ER has 5-10 years to figure it out? Yeah, if someone passes the expense can be abnormal at first, but standard living expenses shouldn't match what your total salary is each year, I feel there would still be more to have?

Mar 26, 2017

Wow, looking out for a divorced spouse and her career prospects post-divorce? Takes a big man, not sure if that is a good thing, could go either way

Mar 24, 2017

The most important thing is to figure this out before hand. My (now) wife and I had many discussions about this before getting married, so we were pretty much on the same page after we (the royal we) started having kids after being married for 5 years. She wanted to stay home with the kids. Her choice. I happily backed her in that choice.

Now that the kids are in college, I keep trying to convince her to go back to work, not so much for the money, but so she can have a life with adults again. Alas, that's not going to happen since she is busy helping her parents with their health issues. Parenting sandwich!

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Mar 24, 2017

I've done both (my wife used to work and now stays home).

I personally prefer her staying home because it makes my life much better. I don't have to clean the house, pay bills, cook, run many errands, etc. This means when I'm not working, I can enjoy my family or hobbies more. My son has some special needs and, although therapies are expensive and I often miss the extra income, it would be extremely difficult for either of us to do well at a job with all the time spent ferrying him to the various doctors/therapists necessary to treat his issues.

All that said, it was sort of simple math for us. She made X, paying for day care, cleaners, etc would cost Y, and I valued my time/sanity at Z. Ultimately we decided it actually saved us money for her to stay home.

Mar 26, 2017

So basically a marriage is like a friendly maid/friend who you occasionally sleep with LoLoL

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Mar 24, 2017
PointPleasant:

So basically a marriage is like a friendly maid/friend who you occasionally sleep with LoLoL

Haha it can seem that way at times. Really, it's more like a valuable, tireless business partner to help you propel your life and your family forward.

Mar 24, 2017

Whatever makes her happy. <- this is the only question.

BTW

I think the optimal would be a part-time job where she has plenty of free time and still has a purpose, not doing anything.

If you let her work too much, she may waste herself, her body or her mind easily...

Also, I must specify that I believe that marriage is hugely overrated, and I don't want to be the next Bill Ackmann..
The ideal is to like the guy that married alice walton and divorced after 2 years... or stuff like that.

Don' t be the richest guy in the couple or without prenupt you are going to get fucked.

Mar 27, 2017

We both work currently. My wife likes her career and wants to go into nonprofit work. I dislike my job and dislike being an employee. I'm using real estate investing and a business I started to become financially independent and will eventually quit. Our plan is for me to quit eventually and run businesses from home while raising our future kids while my wife does her career thing. The kids thing is huge to us. We believe that a lot of conventional wisdom and how people raise kids is harmful and want to have a lot of control in the process.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

Mar 24, 2017

Ok... I'm in a stable relationship and we just have a baby who just turned 10 months. My partner works very hard, leaving ALLLLL the housework to me, including looking after the infant, feeding her, cooking for her, educating her, taking her out, taking her to the doctors, to tresilians (for sleep training), to mothers groups so she makes friends, ... AND cooking for him and me, cleaning the house, tidying the house after the baby's messes, and whatever else you-name-it.

Costs wise, to put the baby to childcare costs us $188 a day. If I go back back to work full time (let's leave aside whether I like it or not), childcare is $940/week (5 days), times 52 weeks, $48,880 per year.

Assuming my work pays $90,000/year, minus tax roughly 30%, leaving $63,000 after tax.

Paying $48,880 to childcare, leaving me $14,120 per year in "savings", or $270 a week in "savings".

The above is just childcare cost. The assumption was mortgage (very very high), food, clothes, other shoppings, doctors, drugs, holidays, entertainment, ... all funded by my partner.

Can you advise me if I should go back to work?

But let me tell you: I desperately WANT to go back to work. I want total security: if anything happens between us, my job skills won't be outdated, I can work, earn, meet people and live independently.

It is hard on us women though, to try to achieve both career and children. You men are lucky to just have a career to care for, as I assume you have the option to allow your wife home to do it all for you. I don't have that choice. I only have 1 option: work 5x harder, sleep 3 times less to achieve hopefully close to what you guys achieve.

Mar 27, 2017

Dramaaaatic
Is what you miss out on in raising your child that you birthed in favor of being a corporate hag worth a $14K a year to you?
And we're not "lucky." Your situation is of your own choosing. You're crying about being a housewife.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

Mar 21, 2017

This is not advice of why or why not you should go back to work but just things to consider.

FWIW, you'd actually only work 48-50 weeks a year (depending on how vaca you have) so that's extra to 1800 to 3600 pre-tax back to you. There's also a bunch of other factors that can knock that childcare cost down:
Do you have family near by that can take the baby for a day or two a week?
Could you work from home more?
Could you work 3 or 4 longer days and have one or two days off a week?
Could you work part time?

Honestly, you can hire a nanny for less than $49k (assuming you're not in NYC) and you can hire a local college kid for way less if you just want a part-time nanny.

Mar 24, 2017

I live in Australia where marginal income tax can go as high as 45%.

30% used in the above example is the effective tax rate for a people in the $80k-$180k tax bracket.

ie. the tax calculated is tax actually paid.

  • Hiring a full time nanny perhaps costs $35k-$40k/year: cheaper, but you have to provide accommodation and food. In addition, it's better for the baby to go to childcare, make their own, hopefully lifetime friends, build their social skills so I would definitely rather the baby go to childcare.
  • Family assistance: I don't have ANY family member in Australia, so no...
  • Working part-time? Is an option, but not without acknowledging the career to be suffered.
  • Working from home? Are there anyone in this forum who works in finance/investment and is allowed to work from home?
Mar 26, 2017

Yes the burden is always on the woman. Plus, who wants to have sex after all that banality!

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Apr 8, 2017

$940/week? That's more expensive than a nanny in London. I think that's exaggerated and either way it's not a permanent cost. You don't only have one option and you wouldn't be working 5x as much as well as sleeping 1/3rd what you already do. I may be wrong but it sounds like you're exaggerating the entire equation to talk yourself out of pursuing a career...and I think you know that. You're not trapped. If you want to pursue a career, do it.

Mar 24, 2017

You're right: it's not permanent. $940/week is for the first 2 years of baby's life. Following 4 years about 20% less.

I am not exaggerating. How about this:
- primary carer for an infant
- studying for CFA Level 3 exam
- applying for jobs and preparing for interviews
- cooking, cleaning, tidying, food shopping
- managing an investment portfolio for extra income and retirement

They say:
- looking after an infant is a full time job
- studying for CFA L3 is a part time job
- applying for jobs is a full time job
- complete housework - isn't that a full time job as well? We used to have a maid back in my home country: her all day work was just that
- portfolio managment: i'd say that's another part time work

24 hours a day. Sleep 4 hours if lucky to give 20 hours for all the above, and hopefully some left for "me" time or I'd explode.

Mar 26, 2017

Yeah I'm a female and would prefer both my husband and I to work. No interest in runts on my end but my issue is that men are obsessed with kids, so, it looks like I'll be single for awhile. I miss the days when guys wouldn't want kids! Now that's all they want: marriage and kids. What happened to the days of independence.

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Mar 26, 2017

You're either a troll or just low-key ignorant. Either way, any smart man would probably stay clear of you so don't worry about the whole marriage thing

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Mar 26, 2017

OK

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Mar 26, 2017

The biggest problem with her staying home is WHEN the child gets older.

What will she do all day while you are supporting her?

Also, how does this increase your risk for divorce whereby she will take large amounts of assets/alimony/child support, particularly since she has ZERO income and "gave up her career for you".

Remember, women divorce men >80% of the time with >60% of marriages ending up in divorce.

Im not sure about this strategy in 2017 and the "traditional" marriage situation.

This is acutely worse with feminist women who have gotten educated who have given up their "careers" for you.

At the 10 year mark, there is high risk for divorce.

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Mar 24, 2017

"Remember, women divorce men >80% of the time with >60% of marriages ending up in divorce."

"At the 10 year mark, there is high risk for divorce."

Please cite, there is too much misinformation in this thread already.

We are practically using game theory to plan out who, what, when, and why we get married. I've said this others places here, but our emotions and our heart function differently than our logic.

You'll do seemingly irrational things for love.

Apr 8, 2017

I would want my future wife to do what my future wife wants to do. In fact, I expect that I'll probably have to do what my future wife wants me to do as well.

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Apr 8, 2017

If you get married after the age of 23 the divorce rate drops to 30%. Don't be a douchebag and it drops even further. A pre-nup isn't a magic bullet and unless you're already wealthy it's not going to "protect" anything, so you're far more likely to alienate your prospective spouse and their family than anything else. If you're going to get married you need to go all in.

May 18, 2017

The role of my (future) wife will be to make me happy and my kids outcompete other kids.
I believe the formal term for her job is a homemaker.

I never understood why guys who can't support the entire nest get married.