So I know this isn't exactly "trading" but I couldn't find a commodities section on here and in terms of commodities I like to think of it as my first step in my career to becoming an actual trader. I know when I was applying and trying to search information I was unable to find a lot of commodity trading/scheduling posts (there are a few but most are pretty dated) so thought I'd post something up for those of you interested, feel free to reach out to me with any questions as well and i'll try to answer them best I can although I have just started my journey.
Anyways, I have finally secured myself a full-time position as a natural gas scheduler for a large multi-national O&G company here in the North East United States.
Surprisingly originally applied online to the position after finding a scheduling role that required 0-1 years of actual experience vs the usual 3+ (no alumni connection/networking here and I actually can say I "got a job by applying online" lol) and went through the usual phone screening with HR/recruiter, phone screening with hiring manager, in person interview with hiring manager and HR recruiter, and final interview with the entire head of mid stream trading/ops for NA. All in all very relaxed and enjoyable interview never once had to go through any technical tests and was asked mostly "Fit", "Back Story", and "Why?" driven questions throughout the process.
I will stress that I didn't just wake up and apply to this position with no experience straight out of undergrad, it's something i've wanted for quite a few years. I have been gathering experience with whatever internships I could find throughout undergrad as well as my graduate degree (I went the straight to graduate school from undergrad route, but that's a separate story in and of itself). My best advice to any of you regardless of what you ultimately want to end up doing for your career is to take ANY and EVERY internship opportunity you can possibly get that is even remotely in your field of interest and start as early as possible. Always be working if possible. I worked part-time 20hrs a week during the semester 40hrs during the summer all throughout my entire graduate program and I absolutely recommend this to anyone that has the chance or goes to school in a big city/area with lots of companies. It shows you can balance your work and that you're able to put in long hours and are hard working. Employers eat that kind of stuff up.
Also, and I hate to say this but name does matter, people like seeing Glencore, Shell, BP, Vitol, Mercuria, Trafigura, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan etc. a lot better than "X" boutique, Bobs Bunkering, or Billy's Brokerage Company. I am by no means knocking small firms, heck that's where I started with my first few internships and they often times provide the best learning experiences but Big names grab attention especially when trying to break into other Big name companies. I was able to get a few Big name companies on my resume, not necessarily in "big time" positions but to most people just glancing over your resume those big names stand out. Even if you had to be a transfer pricing analyst or worked in compliance or some BO type role at some big name firm for the summer/one semester (nothing against transfer pricing but it's just honestly not for me) DO IT even if just for that name, heck you can put your were in the finance department and were a financial analyst or something, spice it up as long as you're not flat out lying. Just getting your foot in the door and being humble will get you farther than you can possibly imagine as well and being able to network within the company and try and move up or into a different role is always easier once you're inside.
In terms of getting internships it really comes down to just networking networking networking even more so than full-time positions (my personal opinion). Nobody expects an intern to know jack shit about what they are doing and it's all down to someone just giving you a shot. People like to give other people they know or someone they know knows a shot it's just how the world works. Talk to your friends parents, fellow classmates, alumni etc. I can without a doubt say that every single internship I have had (besides one) was from one of the three categories I mentioned above. Once you've gotten that first internship just keep pushing and applying and trying to get closer to the actual job/industry you want.
It wasn't until my final internship the last semester before I graduated that I actually landed an internship in the commodities field (i.e. ABCD firm). And that internship didn't even have anything to do with actual "trading/ops". It was on the financing side of the business and dealt with a special financing project the firm was trying to role out but it allowed me to gain enough understanding of many of the different terms in the industry and how actual physical commodities trading works (albeit from the financing side). The role was completely by chance through a former alumni who was looking for someone to create models, crunch numbers and run correlation/regressions in excel looking at basis risk/VaR for different routes/commodities and whatever other random things my boss could think of. The position explicitly stated that it would not turn into a full-time offer and would last until whenever my boss had no more use for me. I took it without a second thought and stayed there over 9 months. I watched other interns come and go but kept my head down and kept grinding and learning (the money was also nice think BB but not BB hours). My boss was an ex IB/PE/HF guy and his partner was an ex Oil trader turned Trade Finance guy. Between the two of them I learned a lot.
Anyways they allowed me to stay on after a graduated while I continued to look for a full-time position (yeah I graduated without a FT offer). As I said in the beginning was recently extended official offer few days ago and quickly accepted (I did interview with a few other firms and did receive another offer but rejected it for offer I took that was head and shoulder above the other). All in all well above and beyond what I had expected compensation wise. Not going to break it down here but more or less near low six figure compensation all in with 100% health/vision/dental benefits. Never give up and always keep grinding hard work and perseverance eventually pays off. Cheers.
Congratulations on the offer. I've had a lot of interviews in the past, and the most engaging ones in my opinion were not technical related questions but more about 'fit'.
Thank You, and yes I have to say the best interviews for me are where it comes across as more of a conversation and not someone grilling you the whole time.
Great post, thanks.
..
Yes, especially in undergrad unless you go to certain schools phyz commodity trading is rarely if even touched on at all as part of finance/economics degrees. I know in the large state school I went to the most we learned about commodities was gold/oil futures and that's it. I find it to be definitely one of the most interesting career choices, especially for someone who is interested in trading and global finance/macro concepts, and something I wish I had known more about early in school.
All i can say is stick with it and soak up as much as you can. The doldrums of being a scheduler can get to you pretty fast, but do your best to be an asset to your trader and always show an interest in what they are doing. 95% of all traders came from the same seat you are in and want to help you come up.
Appreciate the advice, just trying to learn as much as I can.
which pipes are you on?
Congrats that sounds like a solid role for learning from the ground up.
Im EU based - does that comp. include bonus? And if so is that standard sort of comp in the US? Sounds good to me, but hard to know without adjusting for cost of living etc.
Thanks, yes all in comp is including bonus but not 401k match, stock options, pension etc. which of course add to the overall benefit package. For those of you interested, In terms of a better idea the base salary was towards the higher end of average natural gas schedule salaries you could look up on glassdoor. https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/natural-gas-scheduler-salary-SRCH_KO…
I would say it is around standard for the region if a bit on the higher side for someone with 0-1 years experience. I was honestly expecting a bit less to be honest and was pleasantly surprised. Of course you have to take into account the cost of living vs. somewhere like Texas etc. where a $50-55k salary is pretty comparable to a $65-70k salary in New York. I know this site likes to think mainly in terms of IB salaries so put it towards the lower end of the average IB salary in the NE but with about 1/2 the hours.
Do you work in nat gas in EU? I know a few individuals who work in physical commodity trading houses mainly in the Geneva area, beautiful place although pretty much as expensive if not more so than the NE US. Shoot me a PM.
Late response, but congrats on the scheduling gig. Hope you've been enjoying it. I started scheduling midcon pipes for a small shop here in the SE about a year ago after I finished up my undergrad and have been loving it.
Thanks definitely enjoying it, learning a ton. Congrats on your gig as well, we don't really trade/schedule on midcon but sounds like a solid position right out of undergrad.
Very interesting post!
Could you talk a bit more about your day to day tasks or the tasks you expect to be doing as you haven't started yet?
Also, how would you expect the transition into a trading role to happen?
Any opinion on differences between EU/NA career progression? How many people working with you are from outside the US/Canada?
Trying hard to prepare myself in the best possible way for a career in physical commodity trading, so every bit of information is helpful!
Many thanks,
Lamer
Could you talk a bit more about your day to day tasks or the tasks you expect to be doing as you haven't started yet? - Only been on the job ~2 months so am still learning things. My own personal day to day tasks currently are mainly running/generating different daily as well as month end reports while I learn the systems both internally and externally that we use. I have also been shadowing different schedulers to learn different pipelines and how to navigate the different Electronic Bulletin Boards (EBBs) and our internal systems we use to schedule and account for the gas we schedule. I have done some basic scheduling for base load contracts we have on certain pipelines, which basically entails contacting the scheduler at the counter party we sold gas to and confirming the delivery point(or points) they want the gas delivered, which for base-load contracts its usually the same point/points each day. Going into the EBB and nominating the gas to flow on our contract, which is more or less just rolling forward the previous days nom and possibly changing a del point.
Once I get up to speed my general day to day tasks will be scheduling gas for my set of pipelines every morning and working with the trader who will be buying/selling gas on the pipes I cover. Making sure traders are up to date on any issues or constraints on the pipes and making sure all gas is scheduled/flowing and alerting traders to any cuts that may be made. We have several schedulers and each scheduler takes 3-4 different pipelines that they are responsible for scheduling gas on and we rotate every few months between them in order to stay up to date with/learn how to schedule on them all.
Also, how would you expect the transition into a trading role to happen? - Transitioning to a trading role is mostly "right place, right time". Of course being upfront and letting management know your ultimate aspirations helps. Being a scheduler you sit with and work directly with the traders on the desk. Your job is to make sure everything is working correctly operationally and to make their lives as easy as possible. As such, you spend a lot of time working together which can afford you the opportunity to ask question about certain things and learn from them. Most physical gas traders have done at least a few years of scheduling in their early years. Scheduling allows you to really learn how everything comes together operationally from start to finish which is extremely beneficial in physical commodity trading.
Any opinion on differences between EU/NA career progression? How many people working with you are from outside the US/Canada? - I was born and raised in the US and have never worked in the EU so I cannot really comment on the differences between EU/NA career progression but I would think they are pretty similar just from speaking with people I know who work in the EU. Each company is different though. The company I work for is actually headquartered outside of NA (I work for their NA arm). We have a lot of individuals working in our office who were born outside of the US. The majority of upper-level management is foreign born and I believe if I so desired to progress to an upper level management position, and not a trading type role, I would probably be hampered in that regard. As an entry level employee this doesn't really concern me too much. My entire trading desk, with the exception of one individual, is from the US.
Didn’t expect such an extensive answer, thanks for doing this! It can be challenging to obtain information about careers in the commodity sector, at least compared to the abundance of information on purely financial roles.
I think I am in a similar position as you were a couple years ago. I’m currently interning in the metal procurement department of a producer of intermediate goods, mainly to gain access to people who are well connected in the metal markets as well as getting familiar with hedging.
Which kind of internships did you complete in order to enhance your profile? Which helped the most? Were they all focused on NG or also other commodities?
Also, do you feel like there are similar positions in other industries (ags and metals especially)? Rule of thumb there would be proximity to the actual traders, but I feel like this can be deceiving.
You mentioned your postgrad education, how important would you consider academics in this context? I often read that they are neglected by recruiters in the commodity industry, but when I check my LinkedIn (EU of course), most of the traders seem to come straight from the top universities.
Best regards
great desk to start on.. the ne is a great area to be in... learn all you can and network as many of your counterparts schl with you will end up trading the same pipes one day
Thanks monty, your posts were a great source of information on here when I was looking for FT positions/interviewing. Definitely an exciting desk with great group of traders/schedulers so far and looking forward to learning as much as I can.
Kudos yo you for making it.
Really liked what you said about selling yourself to get a foot in throught the door and about moving forward no matter what. Also, totally agree with the institution name thing. That's just the way things are.
Its posts like these that make me believe someday I will also be able to transition to the position that I want.
Cheers.
Thank you, I'm glad I was able to inspire you. Just keep your head up and never discredit any work experience you are able to get no matter the industry as almost everything can be applicable in some way or another.
Mr. T,
Do you have an update on how everything is going? I am set to finish undergrad in the Spring at a non-target school. I've only had 1 internship at a natural gas pipeline in the Midwest. Do you have any advice for me? I plan to move to Houston upon graduation and eventually become a trader.
Hey man, going great closing in on 2 years soon just continuing to learn as much as I can. Have become fairly proficient on about 3/4th of the pipes we trade/schedule on, still a few I haven't had the chance to get any direct exposure on (besides weekend on calls) as we usually rotate pipes every 6mo-1yr. At this point I know how to "schedule gas" and it's more about learning the nuances of each pipeline. I have a complete grasp on our own internal trading/scheduling systems and was in a unique position where Ive been able to really learn a lot in regards to other business functions as well, in addition to scheduling. I've done a lot with tying out invoices, loading in new t-port/contracts, setting up new pipelines/locations, and other kind of higher level tasks that helped me get a good grasp of the entire business and all of our assets in addition to just scheduling gas.
I wouldn't worry too much about "target" and "non-target". There's schedulers/traders on our desk that went to schools you've probably never even heard of. Having an internship at a pipe is definitely more practical experience than I had going in. My best advice is to just keep searching and applying to any entry level roles you can find. They're not the easiest to come by but they are out there and you just need to get your foot in the door. Not sure what your internship entailed but you could definitely try to spin it as you having a bit of experience and a leg up when applying. Focus on ops/risk type roles and you should have as good a shot as anyone at landing a trading role in the future. Good luck!
Hey Mr. T,
Appreciate your post and all the info you provided. I was going to pm you but who knows maybe this will be helpful to somebody else down the line. I graduated from a state school in the NE in 2019 and have been working at a BB (think JPM, BAML, MS) in a corporate finance role in NYC - long story short I have been looking for a career change and I am specifically interested the energy industry.
I have been applying to everything under the sun to try to get my foot in the door but no dice. I feel like going back to school may be the best option for me, and I am willing to place that bet on myself.
I was a finance undergrad but I am curious on your take on what would be a good school (McCombs/ Rice/ Purdue/ or other?) and degree which would help me get my foot in the door as a scheduler (tbh no product specifically in mind).
Any insight would be appreciated.
Happy to give you my opinion, but I’m no expert in the best path. I would definitely keep applying to any entry level roles you can find, it’s a numbers game. I would also try searching on LinkedIn for any people you can find at whatever company you’re applying to and try to connect with them before you send in your application.
I’m not the biggest fan of higher education. Truthfully most things you will learn from doing a masters won’t be entirely applicable to a scheduling role per say. The big benefit of a masters though would be increasing your network through alumni/current students and getting access to any placement services.
I’m not super familiar with which programs are the best for this and wouldn’t want to point you in the wrong direction. I’d think probably schools that specifically focus on energy would be good bets though. I’d just really research their placement/alumni bases.
A quick LinkedIn search would probably be beneficial. Just search up some schedulers/traders and see where most of them went to school for a good place to start. Then start contacting those universities and get more information on their programs and try reaching out/talk to any current/former students in the programs to get their take.
Thanks for the advice, I understand completely the fact that what I learn will not necessarily be applicable to the role - main reason I am looking to go back, to your point, is to build my network out and get another shot at recruiting.
On a separate note, how has everything been since your last update ~2 years ago? Curious to hear.
Doing great. Was able to step up into a trading role while back. Freed up the trader I scheduled under to focus further out the curve. Just continuing to learn.
This has been a great resource to this industry and a peek behind the curtain of what it really is. Thanks for the replies and commentary here it has been really helpful. I just started a scheduling role in Texas and wanted to ask you if there were any tricks/tips you had to learning scheduling? Things you did that helped, ways of thinking, approaches, even notes or ways to remember specific things. I'm only two weeks in and trying to process an insane amount of information quickly.
I know it won't be an overnight thing, but I want to do the best I can to add value to the firm that took a chance on me and be a good scheduler.
Cheers
Always know your position going into the day on each pipe, not sure on your shops own internal scheduling systems or whether it's good ole excel but you need a way to keep track of your position and any purchases/sales done or you'll be completely lost. Have a starting # and work off it +/- depending on trades done and confirm the position with your trader, make sure you're both always on the same page.
Try to pass your contract/rec/del information as early as possible to have a better chance at not getting someone else's shitty split. Try to pass one contract/del/rec location to a counterparty if they pass you a single contract/location as well if possible.
Be sure to check informational pipeline posting on EBBs for any critical notices/outages daily and be aware of planned maintenance for the month and relay these things to your trader ASAP. Know the maximum open capacity you have on your tport/storage contracts and the primary rec/del locations for them and whether you can segment on them.
Get really good at multi-tasking. Don't spend a lot of time sitting around waiting on one thing. You want to be continually moving from trade to trade and passing information as quickly as you can. Don't be afraid to just fire off IMs as information becomes available to you right away.
Learn how to manage your time. Focus your priority on the most recent deadline. If it's 10am EST you shouldn't be working on timely stuff if you still have ID1 scheduling to do, unless you're waiting on u/s or d/s info of course. Sprinkle in timely noms while you can but your primary focus should be on the soonest deadline. which leads me to my next point.
Make sure you absolutely get all of your nominations in by the timely deadline. Missing timely can be a death sentence, you'll get that sinking feeling in your stomach the first time it happens to you, try your absolute best not to let it.
I could go on and on but i'll leave you with these. Congrats on the gig and good luck!
Become an excel wizard and make sure those sheets spit out the precise information needed for position management, ofo calculcations imbalance trades, settlements, etc..
Neque omnis harum similique quo labore. Fuga dicta harum magni. Officia voluptates voluptates illum quidem quam. Id doloribus ipsa rerum rerum ea itaque. Rerum repellendus cum praesentium beatae et est est commodi. Consequuntur quos ut qui tempore culpa sequi. Voluptas alias enim molestias omnis dolorum tempore numquam consequatur.
Ut dolores unde error id iste. Ut in et quas est corrupti rem in.
Dolore velit suscipit nihil sit eum. At reprehenderit illum et deserunt. Velit aliquam cumque aperiam.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Ipsum laboriosam aut non animi perferendis iure. Debitis debitis quos doloribus officiis est exercitationem eius. Dolores corporis provident dolorem labore sed. Recusandae quia eum sed rerum quae velit qui.