From Homeless to Front Office

About a year and a half ago, I posted about getting 20+ interviews and no FT offer (20 Company Interviews Later...No FT Offer looking for Advice). I wish I could say that I quickly got a job after that, but that wasn't the case. I'm going to be very vague about certain details, because I'd like to remain anonymous.

Working in finance has been my dream since I was about 12. Around 14, I decided that I wanted to do IB. I started seeking out any and all finance mentors I could find, in addition to reading the news, getting magazine subscriptions, watching CNBC/Bloomberg, etc.

My passion was self-directed

I'm from a very poor community. For perspective, I had neighbors without running water, a neighbor without electricity, and I knew someone without indoor plumbing. Yes, this was in the U.S.A...just in the parts no one talks about. There was violence. I don't want to describe my home life too much. It's too painful. It's too revealing. I'll just say that it was very 'volatile'. That's why for me, investment banking meant so many things in terms of financial independence, being part of a community full of intellectuals (to an extent), and status. It was (sorry MLK) my promised land.

Even so, I was not naive about my status in the world. As both a female and a URM, I knew that it would be even more difficult to break into the high finance world. I started networking and interning as a freshman. I spent thousands (no exaggeration) on networking events, conferences, and industry organizations over the years. I had up to 3 jobs at a time so I could cover my school costs as well as my career costs. This was all so I could meet people with the hope that one day they'd admire my intelligence and tenacity enough to provide me with a lead. When I was 15, a finance person told me that who I knew would matter more than what I knew. While people made fun of me in college for spending money to 'meet' people, it made sense at the time.

Now flash forward to my senior year. I had multiple high quality internships under my belt, not bad grades (considering how much I worked), and tons of people that I'd met in the industry. My school's career center knew and loved me. I never thought things would get so bad...

****Disclaimer for the people who want to say it's easier if you're a minority.****

I don't want to hear anything about companies' diversity programs because that only 'helps' if you're at a target school! There was something in my previous post that I purposely omitted. I didn't want it to turn into a crap show. At some point, there was a lull in the amount of interviews I was getting. Around December '14 things/calls slowed down significantly. I changed one thing before I started to get a faucet of call backs. I refused to check my race, or fill out an application where it was required. No agenda here. I'm just being 100% transparent now.

***End of disclaimer*****

After graduation

Anyhow, I graduated without a job and began to move around from place to place. I kept being persistent. I lost count of how many applications I submitted after 350. I kept making calls. I kept seeing people, eventually maxing out my credit card to have those coffee conversations. It was difficult to keep up appearances. My friends started calling me stupid, dreamer, a leech (for couch surfing even though I bought my own food). I was told to grow up and be realistic. They encouraged me to give up.

After running out of money and hospitality, I found myself sometimes sleeping on the subway or train station. It was scary and painful and cold. At my lowest/poorest point, I could only afford to eat one bowl of cereal a day. I lost around 30 lbs between graduation and my hardships. I was able to do some part-time seasonal work, but while I had that job and was couch surfing, I had to pay for my stay, so I saved nothing. By the time I was permanently kicked out, I was maintaining odd jobs (one of which was a bathroom attendant) while trying to interview for my stable positions. (I just want to say if you walk into a club bathroom and there is no vomit or urine, please tip the attendant. I swear they do more than hand you paper towels. It's just the only way you can see them.)

Anyhow, I would be lying if I said I didn't go to a deep dark place. I thought many times about walking in front of a moving train. I saw so many years of work go up in ash. And for some reason, people in the industry began to express that I must not be trying hard enough. I could go on and on about the shitty things that happened. These are on the mild side.

However, I'll just end by saying that eventually I got the offer. An alum knew someone who knew someone who knew someone who was hiring. I had 4 different rounds of interviews before I got the job, and I'm very happy. Sometimes it gets annoying to hear people brag about their fathers getting them the job or seeing frat boys that barely graduated with no relevant experience go to more 'prestigious' institutions. But I'm never bitter. I see it this way: I've already weathered one of the largest downturns in my life and anything the markets throw at me will be no big deal.

For all of my struggling monkeys, persistence and consistency in the face of adversity will pay you dividends! You got this!!!

Mod Note: Best of WSO, this was originally posted December 2015

 
DickFuld:
Nicely done.

I like my women birthday wishes like I like my coffee: tnebStrong, black, and full of Sapphire my ip. You fit at least two of those criteria and two out of three ain't bad. Three is a trifecta.

That's hot. Call me when you're in New York.

(Just don't tell my wife (or Sharon)).

Working in finance has been my dream since I was about 12. Around 14, I decided that I wanted to do IB. I started seeking out any and all finance mentors I could find, in addition to reading the news, getting magazine subscriptions, watching CNBC/Bloomberg, etc.

 

If this is all true please message me when you're looking for the buyside. I'll be happy to provide you all the recruiting resources I've aggregated and provide any help I can.

"If you want to succeed in this life, you need to understand that duty comes before rights and that responsibility precedes opportunity."
 
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If this is all true please message me when you're looking for the buyside. I'll be happy to provide you all the recruiting resources I've aggregated and provide any help I can.

Thank you! It's all true. Nothing I wrote was an exaggeration, and there are actually several more crazy things that happened, but were omitted for various reasons.

 
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Congrats, that is definitely one hell of a story. Your attitude is incredible regardless of what you've been through, and your experiences only make it that much more impressive.

Thank you. I struggled with whether or not I should share my story. But over the months my conscious would not allow me keep it in. I believe in the power of being positive. But I didn't want to give some sunshine and lollipop rendition of what really happened. Everyday at work, I make sure that I start the day with a smile on my face. It doesn't matter how tired or stressed I am, it's just a self-reminder of how lucky I am. I'm not saying I always end the day that way, but I truly believe that attitude determines so much in life.

 
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Great Thread.This puts a lot in persepective for me again.

Thank you! I am happy to hear that. My mission is accomplished. When I was job hunting, I was relentless. I talked to/ called/met with everyone I could from analyst to CEO. I once talked to a global head of IB at a BB firm that I won't name. It was literally one of the most crushing conversations I'd ever had in my life. He ripped me apart for having a low GPA (he said working/supporting myself was a poor excuse). He called me stupid (he said that if I was truly intelligent then I would have gotten a return offer from my internship). And he stomped on my dreams (he said that I was basically damaged goods and that I'd never get an offer in IB so I might as well move on to other things). It was 30 minutes of torture. I cried for days after the fact. (I'm not a big crier.) For a month, I half assed applied to things, before I snapped back to reality. It was actually around December '14 when this convo took place. In hindsight that was stupid, and I just don't want people to make the same mistakes as me.

 

Did you know that people that feel like they've come from the same sorts of suffering (which many 100% of the time haven't) are less understanding of those that have gone through the real wringer? In the words of a famous HBS alumni graduation speaker - "You go out there, and prove them wrong. Each and every one"

 
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Great Thread.This puts a lot in persepective for me again.

Thank you! I am happy to hear that. My mission is accomplished. When I was job hunting, I was relentless. I talked to/ called/met with everyone I could from analyst to CEO. I once talked to a global head of IB at a BB firm that I won't name. It was literally one of the most crushing conversations I'd ever had in my life. He ripped me apart for having a low GPA (he said working/supporting myself was a poor excuse). He called me stupid (he said that if I was truly intelligent then I would have gotten a return offer from my internship). And he stomped on my dreams (he said that I was basically damaged goods and that I'd never get an offer in IB so I might as well move on to other things). It was 30 minutes of torture. I cried for days after the fact. (I'm not a big crier.) For a month, I half assed applied to things, before I snapped back to reality. It was actually around December '14 when this convo took place. In hindsight that was stupid, and I just don't want people to make the same mistakes as me.

Holy shit. What the fuck? This guy sounds like a complete and total asshole. It's amazing that the global head of IB at a BB would satisfy the banker stereotype of 'asshole'.

 

That story about the head of IB at a BB makes me so upset! That piece of shit doesn't understand the real world & needs to be punched square in the face. Thankfully that generation is dying off or being run out of the workforce. Complete incompetence.

I was watching an interview with Chris Sacca, he was discussing one of Uber's greatest challenges which was underestimating the full blown corruption in the government. I think once more disruptive fin companies come along the corruption in BB's, etc. will soon be run out as well.

 
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Just wow. Love these type of stories. Reminded me of the Pursuit of Happiness, which btw is my favourite finance type movie.

Thank you! I mentioned on one of the earlier comments that I'm 99.9% sure that if I had a kid, I wouldn't be able to this. But then again, most people thought I wouldn't be this far either, so who knows.

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I could totally relate to a lot of the things you went through.

While I'm not happy to hear that bad things happened to you. I am happy to know that I'm not alone.

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Congrats on your offer and best of luck in your career - you're definitely one to watch!

Thanks again! My aim is to be successful.

 

Thanks for sharing your story. And congrats to you, can definitely take whatever life throws at you.

He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. Socrates
 
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Congrats! Clearly there is driven and there is DRIVEN. I don't think most people in your spot would have kept going, so great job. Thank you for also sharing your story here on WSO. I think stories like this always help give us a big dose of perspective on how lucky most of us are.

Happy Holidays!

Wow that means a lot! Thank you Pat! I've been using WSO since I was a freshman. I've gotten tons of great advice. I've met some awesome Certified Users. When I left my neighborhood, I had a dream and a general direction, but WSO gave me a map. So much of what I've done in terms of prep and strategic networking has been because I learned from the resources put here. Although the map was a giant zig zag, I eventually figured out where to go. So thank you and Gene and Ant, and so many others who've dedicated time and energy to help all of us who are on unfamiliar grounds. Happy holidays to you as well!

 

Mods, Next time some stupid kid talks about which offer is more "prestigious", instead of banning them, send them to this thread. It's incredible how much adversity you've overcome, and how positive you are coming out of this! A person's soul can literally turn cold coming out of a situation like this.

NEVER lose this passion, and keep doing what you're doing!

I think- therefore I fuck
 
Controversial

"As both a female and a URM, I knew that it would be even more difficult to break into the high finance world."

You have a huge advantage as a female or non-Asian minority if you leverage it correctly. And no, you don't need to attend a target school. I go to a good school but not a traditional target and every minority student who is doing IBD took advantage of diversity programs (e.g., SEO, INROADS) or special firm-specific scholarships to get in.

At the end of superday interviews, when the interviewers get on a conference call, HR will typically first inquire how the female and minority candidates did. If they did reasonably well, there will be a huge push to get them offers even if they didn't stand out as the top candidates the team would prefer to give offers to. At the end of the day they have quotas to fill. If you don't check the gender or race box then yes you'll simply be lumped in with the general pool.

 
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"As both a female and a URM, I knew that it would be even more difficult to break into the high finance world."

You have a huge advantage as a female or non-Asian minority if you leverage it correctly. And no, you don't need to attend a target school. I go to a good school but not a traditional target and every minority student who is doing IBD took advantage of diversity programs (e.g., SEO, INROADS) or special firm-specific scholarships to get in.

At the end of superday interviews, when the interviewers get on a conference call, HR will typically first inquire how the female and minority candidates did. If they did reasonably well, there will be a huge push to get them offers even if they didn't stand out as the top candidates the team would prefer to give offers to. At the end of the day they have quotas to fill. If you don't check the gender or race box then yes you'll simply be lumped in with the general pool.

What are you talking about... how would you know the super day interview process if you're a prospective monkey?Stop talking about shit you don't know about. No one is going to give someone a job just because they are a minority. At the end of the day, if they aren't good, they aren't going to last regardless. Sometimes minorities are scrutinized more because their intellectual capability is drawn into question at times as a result of negative stereotypes society has towards minorities and their ability.

 

Because I know people in the industry and they've shared that this is the way it largely works. The same thing has been stated on this forum as well in those "how are superday decisions made" type threads. HR gives a huge push to female and minority candidates even if they aren't necessarily among the first-choice options of the team. Yes, if they don't meet a certain level of qualification and interview poorly they won't be receiving an offer. But that's irrelevant to the fact that female/URM status provides a distinct leg up in the process on its own.

Regarding your last sentence, that's often a consequence of affirmative action practices themselves and was MLK's central misgiving about the practice of providing non-discriminate advantages to certain groups of individuals based on certain check-box qualities. Then there's the question of, did this individual get to where they are on their own merit, or because of their skin color?

 

Thank you for posting, seriously.

Here I was feeling discouraged because of my situation, (non-target, Engineering 3.0GPA, & no IB internships ). In regards to working outside of school to cover expenses I can def relate. I have been working since high school to help out at home.

Similiar story to the global head of IB: Had the chance to speak to an MD at a BB, as I'm sharing my background, he asks "what's your GPA." I confidently stated, "3.0." .. his response "3.0 AT A NON-TARGET?! Forget about it, you're definitely not going to be able to do IB."

So as I keep cold emailing/cold calling away, I'll keep your story in mind. When I have doubts I'll just ask myself "What if ItzWhitneyBitch gave up??"

Congrats!

 
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When I have doubts I'll just ask myself "What if ItzWhitneyBitch gave up??"

Congrats!

I think it's pretty clear what would've happened. By her own admission, she had maxed out her credit cards, drained her financial resources, alienated friends/family (her support network), her health was in decline, she was starving and sleeping in train stations, all until a stroke of blind luck went her way. The mind blowing part of this entire story, is she had good internships and what not, but refused to go after the opportunities right in front of her a.k.a squandered those opportunities by chasing an unlikely dream. Persistence is key, sure, but jesus have some sort of limit.

Normally, any success story is awesome, and overcoming adversity to do it is inspiring. In this case, I can't help but think this person was ready to throw away their life, relationships and early career opportunities. For what? Some false perception of "prestige." I really hope this person's story is the exception, rather than the rule regarding the lengths young people are willing to go to in order to "break in."

 
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When I have doubts I'll just ask myself "What if ItzWhitneyBitch gave up??"Congrats!

I think it's pretty clear what would've happened. By her own admission, she had maxed out her credit cards, drained her financial resources, alienated friends/family (her support network), her health was in decline, she was starving and sleeping in train stations, all until a stroke of blind luck went her way.

I know my story is very atypical. I am one of the 'luckiest' unlucky people you'll ever meet. The issue is that I've met people from similar backgrounds who have given up on themselves, and they actually have a support network. And the people with real support networks could actually benefit the most from the things I've learned. I want people to ask me what I did in terms of finding contacts, talking to senior people, networking strategies at conferences, etc. I'm simply here to help (to the extent that I can) like all the people did to me. In terms of alienating friends and family, ha! First of all, my family alienated me a long time ago. This is why I was willing to move 1500 miles away without knowing a single soul to reach my dreams. I came to college not knowing anyone. My first day of orientation was literally the first day I had ever been on campus. In terms of the friend alienation, that was kind of the biggest surprise. I have a typo above in one of the years. But here is my basic timeline: 5 months after graduation, I'd already had 4 addresses (in between those is where the sleeping in bus stations and etc took place. Then I got a more semi permanent address with a friend, and I still had a few more days of train/ bus station sleeping (I got sexiled). After about 5 months, I got permanently kicked out b/c I needed to grow up. I hate going into detail because it makes my friends seem like horrible people, but they're really not. They just were less understanding b/c they got to spend a year or two with their parents and save money, and I didn't have that luxury. It's just really hard to make people understand that. I'm sure that vast majority of people here don't have the issue of not having a permanent home so all the stuff I ran into, they won't. The being hungry part sucked, but it wasn't too different from some parts of my childhood, so it didn't bother me as much. Sleeping on an actual subway train, I only did once, and I don't recommend it. It was scary. Nothing bad happened, but the fear of what could just didn't sit well with me. Sleeping in the bus station happened more frequently and was actually not a big deal to me at all. I slept in Port Authority. It's kind of like a hostel if you don't think too much about it. At night, they lock you in behind cages (don't know what they're called officially), so no one can get in or out, and there are cameras somewhere around to deter criminal activity. And if you're wondering how in the world did I manage to sleep in Port Authority, it's simple. You buy a *refundable* ticket to Philly for the next day. I used Philly because it's the cheapest at $9 if you get the right time. As long as you have a ticket for the next day, they cannot kick you out of the station. Don't try to be clever and stay without a ticket because the cops check and will forcefully (if necessary) remove you. It's not beautiful, there is no bathroom access, the floor is hard, and it's cold during the winter, but it's safe and not smelly. In the morning, around 5 am, the cops come unlock the cages and wake you up. I'm not here to tell people whether or not they should be willing to sleep in a bus/train station. Hell, as a female, I would strongly discouraged anyone but especially women from doing that unless they have the means to defend themselves in the worst case scenario. I don't go looking for trouble, but the majority of physical altercations I've had in my life have been with males attacking me. I don't think my luck was blind. Had I not did all the necessary things in terms of preparing myself, when the job opp came up, the alum would have never thought of me or mentioned me to the right people. The mind blowing part of this entire story, is she had good internships and what not, but refused to go after the opportunities right in front of her a.k.a squandered those opportunities by chasing an unlikely dream. Persistence is key, sure, but jesus have some sort of limit.

Normally, any success story is awesome, and overcoming adversity to do it is inspiring. In this case, I can't help but think this person was ready to throw away their life, relationships and early career opportunities. For what? Some false perception of "prestige." I really hope this person's story is the exception, rather than the rule regarding the lengths young people are willing to go to in order to "break in."

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I had multiple nice internships. Which is why I think a lot of people didn't necessarily take me seriously when I asked for help. The amount of times I heard,"You have a great resume; you'll be fine." makes me want to vomit. Don't get me wrong, I don't feel entitled, nor do feel like people owed me their time or a even a recommendation. But I think people for the most part felt less guilty dismissing me or not advocating for me because they didn't think that it would be necessary. When I asked what could I be doing differently, I was being genuine. Because hearing that I'm doing all the right things doesn't help me position myself into a different/ better spot.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by squandering the opportunities in front of me. I think this job was interview 34 in terms of finance positions in the aggregate, and every interview I went into in the past I gave my all. However, can you imagine having an interview after sleeping a bus station, or a superday on a practically empty stomach? Even under ideal conditions, these things are rough, but imagine doing them with all the additional background noise. And I was not only applying for IB if you see my past post I mentioned that I was applying across a wide spectrum of opportunities.

I did have a limit. I had two actually. The first one was pretty basic and stands. If I ever woke up, and truly felt like I should not be in finance, then I would give it up without a second thought. The second was if I ever put so much as one foot past the yellow platform, I would abandon finance regardless of my 'feelings'. Also I don't think that I was throwing my life away. You do realize this is something I was pursuing for essentially a decade, and it was a huge part of my identity. In terms of prestige, that's not what I meant when I said status. I guess influence might be a better word. It's just, in my opinion, that as a very successful finance person, you have the ability to transform lives. You can buy board seats in charitable organization. You could start a charter school. You can influence policy makers. It's not about being cool for me.

 

Foremost, I think it's incredible OP landed her dream job. Not many people commit to themselves in such a dedicated way, but at the same time those of you who dogpile on the other perspective, you are no less the moral superior than the jerks you perceive them to be. We all have our own opinions, so quit having that holier-than-thou attitude. Without a doubt it would be rational for anyone to label this a rather "extreme" way to go about their ability to land that IB role. After all, the OP clearly said she allowed her circumstances to make her homeless. Not many would do that.

Frankly, what ArcherVice is clearly stating is that OP could have been more patient and prioritized her health for an opportunity that isn't a "never". One doesn't necessarily need to pursue IB head-first to enter high finance. Whether one can call OP's bloom a stroke of blind luck or not isn't really any one of us to decide, because it shows she took the effort to land the job but at the same time that effort could have cost her her life.

Heads and tails, guys. Heads and tails. In conclusion: OP, congratulations!

 
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Thank you for posting, seriously.

Here I was feeling discouraged because of my situation, (non-target, Engineering 3.0GPA, & no IB internships ). In regards to working outside of school to cover expenses I can def relate. I have been working since high school to help out at home.

Similiar story to the global head of IB: Had the chance to speak to an MD at a BB, as I'm sharing my background, he asks "what's your GPA." I confidently stated, "3.0." .. his response "3.0 AT A NON-TARGET?! Forget about it, you're definitely not going to be able to do IB."

So as I keep cold emailing/cold calling away, I'll keep your story in mind. When I have doubts I'll just ask myself "What if ItzWhitneyBitch gave up??"

Congrats!

Lmao. Let me guess; the MD was a finance major ?

 

Not going to say the md was right but we all know gpa is one of the most common things these companies use to weed out a ton of people. It's also a thing you can control whether or not you go to a target so there aren't really too many excuses. Yes sometimes the teacher you have is terrible but overall it's usually a small number over a 4year degree. I do wish you well in all of your future endeavors. I like reading the WSO success stories so I will look out for yours!

 

Obviously the liberal keyboard warriors are going to throw MS, but OP saying that as a female URM she was at a big disadvantage is patently false. The opportunities and recruiting initiatives available to URM's and females (and consequently off limits to everyone else) are numerous, with many firm-specific programs as well. It is a huge advantage being one of the two, let alone both, as the offer rate among URM's and females is higher than the overall pool despite being less qualified on aggregate.

If she had leveraged her race she would have had a much easier time getting to where she wanted to be. That she thought you need to be a target school student to take advantage of the programs and initiatives available simply shows misjudgment and poor research on her part.

 

I'll raise my hand. I threw MS because you turned an inspirational thread into one about race. I'm focusing, as I believe most other monkeys are, on OPs ability to come from the type of upbringing she had to a job in finance, NOT the fact that a black woman (assuming black because she agreed with me on my carla harris comment) made it.

also, I believe she made it clear that the traditional recruiting channels and therefore the diversity programs were not available to her as she did not attend a target, as you do. I believe what she was implying is that being a black female growing up the way she did she did not have the role models/opportunities that most forum users have and THAT, not her genitalia or skin color, is why she was at a disadvantage out of the gate.

I threw MS because your comment reeked of some of Brady's bitching about being at a disadvantage if you're asian, and I think you implied (either accidentally or not) that not being asian was a big reason why she got a chance. it's thinking like this that is toxic, and that is why I threw MS.

and for whatever it's worth, I'm not a liberal keyboard warrior, just someone who despises thread hijacking from one of the best stories I've ever heard, so please excuse my downvoting of your post.

 

I agree that it's a great story. I simply didn't agree with a part of her post, which is of course immaterial relative to the greater theme behind it. Her thread from a year back (linked to in the OP) is also interesting.

And yes, having the proper guidance and role models growing up is extremely important in a career as competitive as high finance. Anybody, regardless of race, who doesn't have that is at a big disadvantage.

I knew a girl who had a loads of potential (went to one of HYPW), but came from an abusive household where her parents made her stay home with them each summer and was never allowed the chance to pursue internships. Needless to say, when it came to getting a job in finance she was completely fucked. Now, a few years after graduation, she works some low-paying job that a C high school student could do. It's a shame really.

 

This obviously isn't some well-hidden fact. Look at, for example, URM admissions rates versus ORM admission rates at Ivy League schools versus the average standardized test scores between the two contingents. And what non-affirmative action practicing systems has done to minority enrollment (e.g., UC system). Debating whether affirmative action exists and its effect on URM representation in universities and the work force is pretty stupid.

 

Curious to hear how you got turned on to finance and IBD at 12/14. Would have thought one of the biggest hurdles to URM/ socioeconomically disadvantaged choosing finance as a career path was an awareness that it even existed. It sounds like you grew up around pretty abject poverty, which doesn't really seem like it foots.

That said, if this is real, congratulations. You definitely earned it.

 
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Curious to hear how you got turned on to finance and IBD at 12/14. Would have thought one of the biggest hurdles to URM/ socioeconomically disadvantaged choosing finance as a career path was an awareness that it even existed. It sounds like you grew up around pretty abject poverty, which doesn't really seem like it foots.

That said, if this is real, congratulations. You definitely earned it.

Thank you. It's 100% true. I'm actually hoping to find more people in the industry like me. It gets really difficult not being able to ever let your guard down because people are just so unused to bad things happening. My friends like to joke that someone in my ancestors did something really f'ed up and God is getting me for it.

In terms of awareness, you're 100% correct. At 12, in reference to business, I meant entrepreneurship. To be quite honest, I was just tired of being poor. I figured that entrepreneurship would be the best way to become financially self-sufficient. Then I got really lucky. Because I was part of the state's gifted and talented program, I got to take pre-college classes. The course I chose to enroll in revolved around investing and money management. I was the most annoying (to my classmates) and beloved (to my professor) student ever. I asked tons of questions. That professor ran an IBD program at the university and gave me a few tips. Soon after that, I ordered tons of subscriptions to industry/finance magazines and newspapers (I was lucky at that point b/c a lot business magazines were so desperate to get subscribers that they would give free year long trials). After my year was up, I'd reorder magazines with a slightly different name to get a new trial. My mom was always freaking out because she thought I'd get arrested for fraud. I'd also order glossy annual reports (because back in the day you could get the physical ones shipped for free) in order to understand how companies worked.

So yes, had I never attended that course I would have been woefully ignorant. In fact, I've literally only met 2 URMs in finance from a socioeconomic background similar to mine, and they didn't even get into banking until much, much later. They also had better families then I. Every other URM in finance I've met has come from a stable 2 parent/ non-blended family household that was middle class to upper middle class. Accounting has a better mix.

 

Yes, It's amazing how people can not relate or fathom, and therefore doubt. It's nauseating to be honest. I would love to take you to lunch. Just to chat it up, because I most certainly can relate. And yes, that's rare.

 

This is fantastic. Congratulations, really so proud of you.

Enjoy this feeling of success. It is addicting, and it very well should be. Let this spur you on to new heights. You have now learned the most valuable lesson in the world. You need to believe to achieve. Your fanatical commitment to your dream has paid off. Continue dreaming, and maintain the same methodical, maniacal focus on making your dreams a reality.

I don't need to say this because you're already practicing it, but remember too to give back. You know better than just about anyone; no man is an island. The people who offered their couch to you, who shared their meals, gave their advice, edited your resume, responded to your cold emails, met you for coffee, and passed your resume along - they are the faces who stand out in your memory. Be that and more for the next person. Give freely and often. "Cast your bread upon the waters, for you will find it after many days."

I won't say any more for the same fear you have of divulging too much identifiable information on an anonymous forum, but your story and mine are eerily similar and I am smiling so hugely for you right now.

"Dream no small dreams for they have no power to move the hearts of men."

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 
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This is fantastic. Congratulations, really so proud of you.

Enjoy this feeling of success. It is addicting, and it very well should be. Let this spur you on to new heights. You have now learned the most valuable lesson in the world. You need to believe to achieve. Your fanatical commitment to your dream has paid off. Continue dreaming, and maintain the same methodical, maniacal focus on making your dreams a reality.

I don't need to say this because you're already practicing it, but remember too to give back. You know better than just about anyone; no man is an island. The people who offered their couch to you, who shared their meals, gave their advice, edited your resume, responded to your cold emails, met you for coffee, and passed your resume along - they are the faces who stand out in your memory. Be that and more for the next person. Give freely and often. "Cast your bread upon the waters, for you will find it after many days."

I won't say any more for the same fear you have of divulging too much identifiable information on an anonymous forum, but your story and mine are eerily similar and I am smiling so hugely for you right now.

"Dream no small dreams for they have no power to move the hearts of men."

Thanks. I truly and sincerely appreciate it. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Working now makes me appreciate those people that much more. Taking time for coffee, reviewing resumes, that stuff is extremely difficult to juggle. I did a lot in school, but that was predictable, but nothing is truly predictable in finance. I can go from having a slow week to being hit with assignments, so I'm truly, truly thankful for all the people that helped me. In terms of the bed and meals...I'm always telling my mentees if they ever have any issues to come to me. I don't want anyone to ever experience what I did. So my sofa beds and food cabinets are open as long as they're willing to do what it takes to accomplish their goals!

 

Congratulations for your success after all the struggle you went through, it really makes one think that everything in life is possible. Keep it up, go up in the ranks and don't look back. I'll keep studying hard and try to make my way in too as I come from a "non target" and the networking event I've been in haven't been too productive for me, I'm shy, hell of a lot, but for a job of this stature you can't be.

 

Incredibly inspiring story. That dedication, drive, and self-belief is amazing. Grit will get you far. And we know the saying, attitude determines your altitude. You have both, and intellect to boot. In your success, I hope you'll remember your roots and not let your environment and achievements turn you into a negative person

 

Seriously everyone? Are we really going to fucking do this right now? I can't believe what I'm reading from some posters on this thread.

Some of these posts are absolutely correct. Even so, is this completely necessary? This is why we can't have nice things.

ItzWhitneyBItch Please don't let some of these posts dishearten you.

 
undefined:

Seriously everyone? Are we really going to fucking do this right now? I can't believe what I'm reading from some posters on this thread.

Some of these posts are absolutely correct. Even so, is this completely necessary? This is why we can't have nice things.

@ItzWhitneyBItch Please don't let some of these posts dishearten you.

Thank you @QGKZ ! No worries. Nothing that has been said has disheartened me anyway. I'm well past the stage of allowing others to influence my emotions. Heck, I'm already where I want to be. The worst that any poster could do would be to give me a minor eye twitch. I think for some people, even though my original post was long as hell, it was still too condensed. So it was a bit hard to follow. Literally writing out every single thing that happened would take a very long time, and ultimately wouldn't be value added for what I'm trying to do.

My ultimate goal is not to get praise or congratulations. That's not important to me. I mean I'm extremely thankful for all the well wishers, but I'm here to give back. If I can share through PMs and targeted posts everything I learned over the course of years, then I can help someone well before things get to my stage. I don't know who threw MS at @ArcherVice, but that wasn't me...although I'm pretty tempted. I'm not really sure where the self-inflicted adversity comment comes from. At first, I thought he or she missed missed my post from a year back where I said that I was applying for positions all across the board beyond IB. But then I noticed that he/she was one of the negative commenters/naysayers. I'm guessing somewhere along the line they probably rejected me because I wasn't a good 'fit'.

The advice I got then from one poster was to stop interviewing for so many things because I was spreading myself thin. And that it was really hard to have passion across such a wide spectrum of roles. And that was actually pretty good advice for my situation for two reasons.

  1. Cost

Once you graduate (even before in some cases) the power balance shifts even more in favor of the hiring companies. Around the time April/ May hit, I had to pay for my transportation to my job interviews. When you have a lot of interviews/ rounds and you have to pay out of pocket it really starts to add up. :( I remember one interview costing me nearly $400. The interview was in a random out of the way place (non major city) and it wasn't even for IB. I had to take a train in that night because all the trains that ran the day of would arrive AFTER my job interview. I had to pay for a sketchy motel because it was the cheapest thing that I could afford (it didn't even have proper heat/air circulation). I had to pay for cabs from the train to my motel, from the motel to my interview site, from the interview site back to the motel (because I was too paranoid to bring my change of clothes to the company), and then from the motel back to the train. There were no public transportation options available to me. I don't even remember if I bought food because I was very cognizant of all the costs.

Add the fact that you need to have your suit pressed (after a certain point in financial deterioration, it just didn't make sense to get this done so I eventually stopped). Soon it becomes very clear that all opportunities aren't good opportunities.

  1. Time/Energy/Emotion I actually have several stories about this, but I'll just share a few. One does not simply just go into any interview and approach it the same way. A good job in finance is (usually) competitive no matter what it is. I will say it again. All good jobs in finance are competitive! While there are guides on interviewing well in IB, that is exactly what they are. It's how to interview well in IB! IB/ HF/IM that's where I got to go to the final rounds because I understood how those people think. The way you answer questions or frame your story in IB is VASTLY different then how you'd frame your story or answer questions in Consulting or ST or Corp Fin. I had interviews in those fields and I got demolished.

My stories didn't make sense, my brain/way of thinking did not mesh well, and my temperament was off. For my consulting interviews, I could only talk about revenue synergies and cost cutting. True example: in one of those interviews, I was asked how to stop a small bike shop from losing money. The company had 3 workers at all times which I thought was extremely stupid. How many people do you really need to run a bike store? So my solution was to get rid of one of the workers, which is extremely logical as a banker...not so much as a consultant.

In terms of passion, in one of my corp fin interviews, I got called out. Interviewing with the analysts went great. Then I spoke with one of the more senior people. I was asked three questions before it ended. The first two (I don't remember exactly) were softball questions. Then she hit me with the "Why do you really, really want to be here?" I tried with the 'in banking thinking isn't as valued...I'll be more appreciated here... Blah blah blah'. And she shut me down quickly. She responded that all of my coursework, leadership experiences, and work experience was related to banking. She said that I was really passionate about the field, and I was desperate for a job and that was the ONLY reason I was sitting in front of her. She said that she hoped I didn't think she was so stupid to not realize that. When I tried with a rebuttal, she cut into me again, and I was just done with the whole company at that point. The full interview with her lasted 7-10 minutes.

Once, while interviewing, a trader said he wanted to see me angry. I was taken aback and said that I don't really do that. He told me that people curse, throw and break things, and that I needed to be able to handle that. He asked me the last time I'd been really angry, and I couldn't even think of an appropriate response.

So to ArcherVice and all the others who may see my post and think that I was just being really illogical with tunnel vision: Doing well at anything requires time and commitment. Trying to learn a new style of interviewing while supporting myself and already having a resume that 'in some ways' worked against me really wasn't logical at the time. And again this is all still a pretty condensed story.

 
undefined:
undefined:
Seriously everyone? Are we really going to fucking do this right now? I can't believe what I'm reading from some posters on this thread.Some of these posts are absolutely correct. Even so, is this completely necessary? This is why we can't have nice things.@ItzWhitneyBItch Please don't let some of these posts dishearten you.

Thank you @QGKZ ! No worries. Nothing that has been said has disheartened me anyway. I'm well past the stage of allowing others to influence my emotions. Heck, I'm already where I want to be. The worst that any poster could do would be to give me a minor eye twitch. I think for some people, even though my original post was long as hell, it was still too condensed. So it was a bit hard to follow. Literally writing out every single thing that happened would take a very long time, and ultimately wouldn't be value added for what I'm trying to do.

My ultimate goal is not to get praise or congratulations. That's not important to me. I mean I'm extremely thankful for all the well wishers, but I'm here to give back. If I can share through PMs and targeted posts everything I learned over the course of years, then I can help someone well before things get to my stage. I don't know who threw MS at @ArcherVice, but that wasn't me...although I'm pretty tempted. I'm not really sure where the self-inflicted adversity comment comes from. At first, I thought he or she missed missed my post from a year back where I said that I was applying for positions all across the board beyond IB. But then I noticed that he/she was one of the negative commenters/naysayers. I'm guessing somewhere along the line they probably rejected me because I wasn't a good 'fit'.

The advice I got then from one poster was to stop interviewing for so many things because I was spreading myself thin. And that it was really hard to have passion across such a wide spectrum of roles. And that was actually pretty good advice for my situation for two reasons.

1. Cost

Once you graduate (even before in some cases) the power balance shifts even more in favor of the hiring companies. Around the time April/ May hit, I had to pay for my transportation to my job interviews. When you have a lot of interviews/ rounds and you have to pay out of pocket it really starts to add up. :( I remember one interview costing me nearly $400. The interview was in a random out of the way place (non major city) and it wasn't even for IB. I had to take a train in that night because all the trains that ran the day of would arrive AFTER my job interview. I had to pay for a sketchy motel because it was the cheapest thing that I could afford (it didn't even have proper heat/air circulation). I had to pay for cabs from the train to my motel, from the motel to my interview site, from the interview site back to the motel (because I was too paranoid to bring my change of clothes to the company), and then from the motel back to the train. There were no public transportation options available to me. I don't even remember if I bought food because I was very cognizant of all the costs.

Add the fact that you need to have your suit pressed (after a certain point in financial deterioration, it just didn't make sense to get this done so I eventually stopped). Soon it becomes very clear that all opportunities aren't good opportunities.

2. Time/Energy/Emotion
I actually have several stories about this, but I'll just share a few. One does not simply just go into any interview and approach it the same way. A good job in finance is (usually) competitive no matter what it is. I will say it again. All good jobs in finance are competitive! While there are guides on interviewing well in IB, that is exactly what they are. It's how to interview well in IB! IB/ HF/IM that's where I got to go to the final rounds because I understood how those people think. The way you answer questions or frame your story in IB is VASTLY different then how you'd frame your story or answer questions in Consulting or ST or Corp Fin. I had interviews in those fields and I got demolished.

My stories didn't make sense, my brain/way of thinking did not mesh well, and my temperament was off. For my consulting interviews, I could only talk about revenue synergies and cost cutting. True example: in one of those interviews, I was asked how to stop a small bike shop from losing money. The company had 3 workers at all times which I thought was extremely stupid. How many people do you really need to run a bike store? So my solution was to get rid of one of the workers, which is extremely logical as a banker...not so much as a consultant.

In terms of passion, in one of my corp fin interviews, I got called out. Interviewing with the analysts went great. Then I spoke with one of the more senior people. I was asked three questions before it ended. The first two (I don't remember exactly) were softball questions. Then she hit me with the "Why do you really, really want to be here?" I tried with the 'in banking thinking isn't as valued...I'll be more appreciated here... Blah blah blah'. And she shut me down quickly. She responded that all of my coursework, leadership experiences, and work experience was related to banking. She said that I was really passionate about the field, and I was desperate for a job and that was the ONLY reason I was sitting in front of her. She said that she hoped I didn't think she was so stupid to not realize that. When I tried with a rebuttal, she cut into me again, and I was just done with the whole company at that point. The full interview with her lasted 7-10 minutes.

Once, while interviewing, a trader said he wanted to see me angry. I was taken aback and said that I don't really do that. He told me that people curse, throw and break things, and that I needed to be able to handle that. He asked me the last time I'd been really angry, and I couldn't even think of an appropriate response.

So to ArcherVice and all the others who may see my post and think that I was just being really illogical with tunnel vision: Doing well at anything requires time and commitment. Trying to learn a new style of interviewing while supporting myself and already having a resume that 'in some ways' worked against me really wasn't logical at the time. And again this is all still a pretty condensed story.

I was actually the person who gave you that advice. I was going through a similar struggle at the time and had finally broken through and found something. I remember how good that felt finally having something to show for all the pain, hard work, embarrassment, and effort that was my job search. Congrats and best of luck.

 

1st of all great story! I know someone very close that is in a similar situation, really hoping things turn around next year and gets a FT offer and a place. Another thing why in the hell a trader would ask that? He/she doesn't know how to interview. Early this year I had an 3 person panel interview and 2x times they asked what is the hardest thing you've ever done. I was taken back more the 2nd time they asked (I hate HR type interviews). That same company is still posting for the same position. I did however get an offer for a new job.

Good luck in the future! Your story is inspiring as hell, Get at it!!

Greed is Good!
 
undefined:

Really don't understand why I got MS for my post.... but whatever..

I normally don't pay too much attention to this stuff, but I figured you deserved a response and some encouragement. I don't know either.

When someone gets pissed off by my posts, it's sometimes because they have some personal issues. If they're not willing to step forward and say something, I suspect there's also a lack of confidence on top of that. However I also know that complaining about it is a great way to further encourage them.

There are a lot of unhappy people out there. Especially with the Yellen correction right before year end bonuses are calculated and the general failure of value and mean reversion bets this year. Maybe he was long oil, lol?

Yup, the ms from the (very predictable) miserable dude will be worth it. Especially if this post helps you.

 
Libertybeast6:

@OP, congrats. I have a question. How beneficial do you think CFA is for breaking into Investment Banking?

I personally don't think that it is very helpful for breaking into IB. The time you would need to spend studying (because of how general/intense it is) could be better devoted to networking or a modeling class. If you fail the CFA, you have nothing to show for it. If you pass, you may get a few brownie points, but not anything that will necessarily move the needle in favor of you over another candidate. I wouldn't say that the CFA is frowned upon, just that you may encounter some indifference within IB. Networking and modeling will always come in handy. However, if you are looking into AM/IM/HF eventually, it's a little different. People on the buy side tend to have a much greater opinion of the certification. I've had several buy side people tell me to go for the CFA which I'll eventually start. But for right now, I'd say the focus should be on Networking & building relevant skills over the CFA.

There are several threads on WSO covering this topic.

 

Thanks for sharing your success story. Your determination against all odds is really inspiring, especially to people like me who are still trying to make it.

Although, I agree with @ArcherVice that you could easily have found a good job elsewhere with your credentials. During your struggles, were you ever tempted to settle for a less competitive role, perhaps in the middle office, then try to work your way up later? Surely it is preferable to working odd jobs and not having a roof over your head.

 
dazzwater:

Thanks for sharing your success story. Your determination against all odds is really inspiring, especially to people like me who are still trying to make it.

Although, I agree with @ArcherVice that you could easily have found a good job elsewhere with your credentials. During your struggles, were you ever tempted to settle for a less competitive role, perhaps in the middle office, then try to work your way up later? Surely it is preferable to working odd jobs and not having a roof over your head.

Great points! One of my favorite teachers in high school used to say, "There's more ways than one to skin a cat." This means (for those who aren't familiar with the phrase) there is more than one way to accomplish a goal. I truly believe this. There were several options, under perfect conditions, that would have made more sense/ been easier. However, due to my time/ financial constraints somethings were just ridiculously difficult. Initially, I was applying for non IB jobs/ non front-office jobs as well. I burned a lot of cash on unfruitful interviewing. Besides rejections, I had multiple interviews where there was an extra honest interviewer who told the truth. On the $400 interview that I mentioned above in the comments, one of the interviewers flat out told me, that I would hate the job, I would do nothing of substance, and that the quoted salary was a lot higher than anything I would ever see.

One of my biggest issues was that I did not graduate and go directly to a major city. So for the longest, I was burning cash to travel only to get rejected at less desired jobs. I'm going to have to make a separate post, so people understand that I'm not condoning my path in it's entirety. It's motivational and cautionary.

 

And I quote "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent"

Calvin Coolidge

Want to Lose the body fat, keep the muscles, I can help.
 

One of my coaches in high school used warn us about taking time off to relax, because there will always be someone out there working 100x harder than you. He was a huge hardo but that's beside the point. This is that someone, and she has put in 1000000000x more than most of us have.

I AM THE LIQUOR
 

Thank you for sharing ItzWhitneyBItch congrats on persevering through your struggles and showing the world anything is possible if you push through hard times and keep your sights focused on your dreams. You didn't compromise and you broke in. Inspires me to push forward in my job search post-graduation.

 

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