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Comments (53)

  • Associate 1 in PE - LBOs
Sep 21, 2021 - 1:39pm

lol gtfo "working hard" shouldn't equal to 100+ hours a week for months, this isn't a rich kid vs poor kid thing

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  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Sep 22, 2021 - 3:06pm

You are wrong because you don't understand the job. Here's why you are wrong:

The hours a junior banker works doesn't create a better product or get more deals done, it often is just senior bankers being abusive or them not attempting to make conditions better when they could. A great example of this is demanding people be back in the office or refusal to stagger work start times. You talk about cost benefit analysis however, it would be very easy to have some members of junior investment banking teams work night shifts/ have later starts to boost productivity, but firms don't do this because the productivity boost is marginal and more importantly the egos of seniors don't like junior bankers not "paying their dues". Everyone in the industry knows-they don't run a cost benefit analysis-it's not that deep. A huge reason being the way banks make revenue is senior bankers bring in revenue, junior bankers execute. The reason banks make less money isn't because they don't have enough junior bankers to execute, it's that senior bankers aren't able to bring in more revenue. Put another way, the revenue brought in is constant and junior bankers don't affect revenue. Senior bankers then just create work for juniors often because they don't have anything better to do and aren't penalized for it/ aren't required to do any sort of cost benefit analysis.
The part you really don't get is that the industry has way more old ways of doing things and horrible inefficiencies than you would believe. They really are just pretty apathetic/ don't care about the treatment of juniors because most of them leave in 2 years and the senior individuals have bigger problems to worry about.

Your main argument comes down to, "well they pay you money, so you should either quit or accept anything they do to you" is a little crazy and half baked. It also ignores the reality of working. Employers have the ability to change and ultimately this survey actually did change the industry a bit. My bank isn't Goldman and we got protected saturdays that previously didn't exist due to the survey that was released. You don't have two options as a worker either 1) agree with everything your employer does and stay or 2) quit. You can say things like, "I would like to stay, but these things should be done to improve our organization". 
 

Ultimately, banks could say take it or leave it and that's where a cost benefit analysis might actually come into play. However, this survey did 3 things that were actually pretty important breaking a not optimal equilibrium for employees:

1) it made the treatment of the juniors get public attention which started to affect client relationships/ revenue. Previously treatment of juniors had no correlation to revenue, so they didn't care if juniors were treated poorly. For example, some clients to my bank have commented they didn't want Goldman as an advisor due to that survey and the treatment of employees. This forced the bank and banks broadly to begin treating juniors better as a function of making their business succeed/ it shook some of the irrational apathy.
2) It allowed a conversation to happen in recruiting where banks started to compete with each other in terms of talent by finally competing on working conditions and pay-previously they were massively underpaying everyone, hence why the whole industry raised salaries.

You seem to think anyone who complains is simply a complainer and it shows a severe lack of understanding behind employee and employer relationships as well as the job market. Sure, there are a ton people who complain and probably should leave the job, but again as mentioned the notion that you have to 100% accept everything an employer does or you should quit is idealistic and makes you not a "contrarian" it makes you come across as horribly ignorant (which you are as a kid who hasn't worked).

Sep 21, 2021 - 3:38pm

The truth is I would not have the balls to even stand up to my MD at a shit firm, especially coming from a family where Im the biggest bread winner in the history of my family. I think eventually its confidence like this that sets the top dog and myself apart. Working in finance seriously makes me depressed sometime, especially most of the folks in high finance come from a wealthy family. Most of times I feel like a outlier when I cant relate to the 1st world problem that people around me have.

  • Analyst 2 in IB - CB
Sep 21, 2021 - 5:49pm

RichChigga

The truth is I would not have the balls to even stand up to my MD at a shit firm, especially coming from a family where Im the biggest bread winner in the history of my family. I think eventually its confidence like this that sets the top dog and myself apart. Working in finance seriously makes me depressed sometime, especially most of the folks in high finance come from a wealthy family. Most of times I feel like a outlier when I cant relate to the 1st world problem that people around me have.

strong username to post content ratio

Sep 22, 2021 - 12:33am

My thoughts here cut both ways:

  • This guy probably felt comfortable speaking up about a legitimate issue because he knew he couldn't get fired. And even if he did get fired it wouldn't change his lifestyle. He used his unique position to address a problem that none of his peers could. Which in my mind is noble.
  • I don't know this guy. Very possibly he's a good analyst who would be in his seat regardless of who his father is. But, if he got his job through nepotism I think this is pretty poor form. Complaining that the hyper prestigious job daddy got you is too hard is sort of gross.

Hard to know what the truth here is. My level of sympathy for first year bankers complaining about work load is generally low. But, there is a limit to what humans are capable of doing. And it sounds like TMT at GS was approaching/beyond that last year. I also blame the banks for making internship programs too soft. If you don't give people a realistic work experience then you're kind of asking for situations like this.

  • Intern in IB - Gen
Sep 23, 2021 - 1:24pm

I think your underestimating the step level change in the workload from before to during COVID for TMT, internships couldn't have been similar even if they tried

Sep 24, 2021 - 10:02pm

I don't agree with your premise. You can create an unlimited amount of work for the interns to do. The point is to create as realistic (miserable) an experience as possible. It's far better for everyone involved if people figure out that they aren't cut out for banking before they start as full times. Not least because analyst attrition tends to create a vicious cycle in terms of work load.

  • Research Analyst in HF - Other
Sep 22, 2021 - 1:22am

LMAO whistleblower??? Like these people are the same as the guy who unraveled Theranos? Everyone on the fucking planet knows how shitty life is for junior bankers, much less everyone actually in the industry.

The only thing that's notable is this somehow got into the mainstream conversation outside of finance. Even though these people get paid well enough for the privilege of taking it up the ass compared to Main Street careers outside tech where you have to use your brain much more. Banks didn't raise bases because of this - they did it cuz of economics and supply/demand. People are quitting banking in droves without jobs lined up and banks are desperate and scared to get good talent. It's a good time to be a smart 22-23 year old with finance experience.

  • Research Analyst in HF - Other
Sep 22, 2021 - 1:22am

LMAO whistleblower??? Like these people are the same as the guy who unraveled Theranos? Everyone on the fucking planet knows how shitty life is for junior bankers, much less everyone actually in the industry.

The only thing that's notable is this somehow got into the mainstream conversation outside of finance. Even though these people get paid well enough for the privilege of taking it up the ass compared to Main Street careers outside tech where you have to use your brain much more. Banks didn't raise bases because of this - they did it cuz of economics and supply/demand. People are quitting banking in droves without jobs lined up and banks are desperate and scared to get good talent. It's a good time to be a smart 22-23 year old with finance experience.

Sep 22, 2021 - 3:23am

Yeah this is a non-event and not news. As someone who came from a zero finance background I see why it would've been challenging for someone in my post to make these grievances public in the same fashion the TPG kid did but you're right, it's not like he uncovered some scandalous piece of news or anything folks didn't know to be true. 

Did it help him to do so and feel safe from being let go? Fucking yes it did. Show me a kid who hustled to be where he/she is that would blow the whistle in that public a manner - you'll be hard pressed to do so. But yes, it's not like this person did anything revolutionary by any means. 

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  • Research Analyst in HF - Other
Sep 22, 2021 - 1:22am

LMAO whistleblower??? Like these people are the same as the guy who unraveled Theranos? Everyone on the fucking planet knows how shitty life is for junior bankers, much less everyone actually in the industry.

The only thing that's notable is this somehow got into the mainstream conversation outside of finance. Even though these people get paid well enough for the privilege of taking it up the ass compared to Main Street careers outside tech where you have to use your brain much more. Banks didn't raise bases because of this - they did it cuz of economics and supply/demand. People are quitting banking in droves without jobs lined up and banks are desperate and scared to get good talent. It's a good time to be a smart 22-23 year old with finance experience.

Sep 22, 2021 - 11:12am

Because he was born rich he can't have opinions now? Treat people the same, period.

And y'all complaining when this man helped raise everyones wages by tens of thousands? Sounds like y'all r just bitter imo.

Also, how did they identify him as one of the GS13?

Sep 22, 2021 - 4:50pm

Anyone have a link to the actual deck got leaked?  Not sure if it was released on here.

  • PM in HF - Other
Sep 22, 2021 - 4:58pm

The kid sounds like he has a "gold plated" resume. His dad is one of the pioneers of PE industry. For all we know this kid is the biggest banking hardo in the world or possibly the nicest guy who decided to follow his dads career path. Like come on the clinet on his deal could have been his "godfather" or guy he played tennis with growing up. Very few are this close to the situation as this kid prolly was.  

As other posted mentioned this bullshit "clickbait" by new sources. What WSO did was way more impactful than the holy 13. The holy 13 wanted minor tweaks and more "money" truly. They got that and now no more slide decks.

WSO tried to do real analysis, posts to change the whole industry. All analysts on here said yes yes yes! Then banks said you get 5 more hrs a week to shower and oh yah 20% raise and everyone was like DEAL.

  • Intern in PE - LBOs
Sep 22, 2021 - 9:11pm

As a straight male I would marry this guy... So I could divorce him to get half of his sweet sweet tpg carry trust fund.

Sep 23, 2021 - 10:17am

In a weird way, knowing that he comes from a privileged background actually makes me respect him more for doing this.

This kid had absolutely nothing to gain (or lose, to be fair) by sticking his neck out and complaining about horrible working conditions. One could claim that he used his privileged background as a firm launching pad to accelerate the improvement of working conditions for his peers across the industry.

Well done.

Sep 23, 2021 - 11:16am

I mean he could have gained, and he did, a better work envt...saying he had nothing to gain isn't accurate. Just because he is rich doesn't mean his parents would just "let" him for lack of better terms quit because he was being worked to hard. In fact, he probably had immense pressure to work in banking, whether self imposed or not. He did use his clout and everyone benefited...but I highly doubt this was some benevolent action. 

  • Associate 2 in PE - LBOs
Sep 23, 2021 - 8:32pm

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Sep 24, 2021 - 1:49pm

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