Got Citi, but DB gave offer today

heylou:

I signed with Citi already, thinking I was done.

What do I do? renege? I know the DB MDs better than the Citi ones though.

Some people say Citi will come out of this as one of the stronger banks, but I'm not sure about that argument. Will Citi be around IF I get a FT offer?

Umm. Not to come across as too harsh, but what planet have you been on for the past year and a half?

Renege asap. Sign with DB. Why would you want to work for a company that's inevitably going to be owned by the US government, about to lay off more workers, and not be allowed to pay out any bonuses in all likelihood for the next few years. Let's be real, Citi won't exist in it's current form by the time you start FT. BE very thankful you have the DB offer.

Dude take the DB offer and run. Do note tell Citi where you are going either.

If the events of today can't convince you to renege on Citi for an infinitely more stable bank, I don't know what will.

God knows what CIti will look like in a year.

.

Citi is doing horribly, took on very little interns and still decided to hire YOU. It's a summer. Go with Citi. Citi has always been much stronger than DB in IBD anyway. Still #2 on leaguetables

Citi is doing horribly.

Go with Citi.

You're a fucking embarrassment to your parents.

Congrats on the Deutsche Bank offer. Go with DB.

Thanks everyone.

Right now I am scared I will burn bridges at Citi. The guys will remember me because I talked to them. All my interviewers called after I signed to say congrats and dont fret etc etc. I feel like I gave my word to them.

How long did DB give you to decide? You could wait to see if the gov't does something drastic soon, then use that as an excuse to renege. Without having any special knowledge though, I really can't see citi taking on a bunch of interns just to dump them, so the offer probably isn't as risky as others are suggesting. However, DB is still obviously safer, so you should consider how committed you are to not burning bridges

I have 2 weeks

What's the consequence of burning bridges with citi? I guess maybe that they could tell other banks you suck. They'll be such a radically different company in a few years.

Tough situation b/c you're still only a junior and its not like you're done with OCR for next year. I don't really have any great suggestions, but I will say that when I was in your shoes and considering taking my bear offer, I was told by plenty of employees that bsc is fine, great opportunity, smaller class so better selection, etc...month and a half later bsc bought for 2 bucks a share and entire class was fucked. So, don't put ANY weight on what current employees tell you, most are just as scared as you are... You have to go with your gut and block out the words of encouragement from guys @ C. Good luck w/ tough decision..

You definitely want to renege; congrats on getting DB.

yeah, go with DB...in this market, nobody else is going to look out for you. if you go with citi and end up getting screwed, you'll kick yourself in the ass forever

Most important lesson of a Wharton education:

Look out for #1.

Wow. I'm pretty surprised by the sentiment on this board.

Don't be...self-preservation is the strongest instinct.

Its like you are asking us whether you should shoot yourself or stab yourself. Banks are done. DB is probably just as bad off as Citi.

First off, DB is a shitty IB platform, I guess Citi is too now but it wasn't awlays shitty, and second, you might get into trouble from your career center if you renege an offer. At my school (top target) you were banned, no questions asked, if a recruiter called and said you reneged on an offer.

Guys thanks so much for the advice. If I go DB, I better get that offer and hopefully nobody jumps ship to DB from Citi and remembers me. I need to think things through a bit more...

whatever happens, just take DB

The world has changed. And we must change with it.

Kind of in the same situation. I have (and accepted) and offer with Citi/BA/MER (due to offer expiring) for the summer, but was placed on waitlist for one of CS/UBS/DB. I, like you, am scared of the situation, but if I did happen to get off the waitlist, I wouldn't renege.

You have a job at an IBank this year. That's more than can be said for most of your classmates. Albeit, recruiting will more than likely be terrible in the fall, but at least you will have a lot of leverage (and a good story) if you decide to go to another bank.

You also have to think that if you do renege, you'll probably be blocked from OCR at your school. If you don't get an offer from DB at the end of the summer, you could be in bad shape as well.

If you are blocked from OCR, can you still apply at the major banks? Is it possible to do interviews via phone/at their hq? I guess I'd ask if being blocked from OCR means being blocked from recruiting period or if its just inconvenience.

1. reneging an SA signed offer = ban from OCR for FT (at least in my school) *I was in the same situation last year and stuck with my original signed offer

2. you're going to burn bridges at CITI - though they're at CITI now, they will jump ship later and will be scattered through the industry (they will remember you as that asshole kid) *their jumping ship is ok since they're not reneging on shit

3. you will never get opportunity at CITI *assuming CITI survives

4. CITI is royally screwed, but their IBD and CapMarkets (only ECM and 1 or 2 debt groups) were/are top notch. they still have a good platform to train you.

Do you really think the VP of undergrad recruitment or some associate VP is going to remember you if they jump ship? are you even going to be dealing with that wing of HR ever again after you get a FT offer?

Burn bridges at Citi? They about to burn regardless.

Citi - $1.50

DBA AG (USA) - $25.56

RUN RUN RUN!!!!

EDIT: LOL @ the picture

Dude you'll get on the "Citigroup Global Candidate Blacklist" and lose your shot at working for the federal government ;)

Citi are still top 3 for IBD, DB is about 7th. When people say DB is safer, what do you think they mean? Citi is just as safe as DB, it won't go bust. Their image has been shot to pieces, that is true. But they are still a top IBD dog and you'll probably be working on bigger deals at Citi than at DB. If you are worried about conversion rates, then you shouldn't be. You are as likely not to be picked in one bank as you are in another, and if you are good, really good, you'll get converted. No bank wants to have an age gap in their demographic. If you've already signed with Citi, stay with Citi, DB isn't half as good as people make it out to be.

Just my 2c.

I was in a very similar situation last year, but for FT. I verbally committed to a non-BB firm (Wachovia, BofA). Shortly thereafter (a few days), things were looking progressively worse for the company and another offer had come in that I wasn't expecting from a more stable firm, but with a slightly lower total takedown at signing (w/o year-end stub bonus factored in since that was obviously hard to predict and I was just given ranges over the phone of what to expect).

I contacted the firm I initially committed to and was upfront about my change of heart and they more or less understood though were clearly unhappy and tried to put me through a bit of a guilt trip by saying how they offered me a great pay package, that we had an agreement, yada yada. As many others have said, don't feel guilty for looking out for #1 if you have something better lined up.

Also, they asked more than once about the other position, but there is obviously no reason to disclose the other firm. Bottom line: don't feel a need to give in to them; just as they're looking for the best employee fit you should be looking for the best employer fit, and in this situation, that is definitely DB from my perspective.

Congrats on the offers and good luck with your decision.

Seriously, can't be too careful on this market.

Two things can happen:

1. Citi will be split but still survives => you go to citi
2. Citi goes under => you go to DB

The people you will work with at Citi is of better quality than DB. Forget about burning bridges, nobody gives a squat about a SA dude, seriously.

Just a hypothetical:

You renege Citi to go with DB and get banned from your school's career services center. You work at DB, do an okay job, but don't get a FT offer. All I have to say is you better have some good connections for this fall if you have to find a job with out your career center getting you interviews.

agreed

Someone a few posts up mentioned how the guys who accepted with BSC got royally screwed last year. I thought it might make sense to mention that every SA and FT person I know at Lehman was absorbed and is still working for Barclays. So you might want to take into consideration that even if Citi implodes you may not be out of a job or even have to be a federal employee.

banquer, you're comment regarding legacy LEH bankers may be right, but I had a classmate who received a FT offer after being an SA which was ultimately rescinded upon the firm's collapse and acquisition by Barcap.

She was allowed to keep her signing bonus but was left in the cold regarding employment prospects (she ultimately found a good situation, but I can't imagine everyone was so lucky).

There are several people I know from Lehman IBD and capital markets who were laid off after the Barclays deal. If Citi's IBD gets sold or split out, jobs WILL get cut.

Suggestions:

1) Go to your college counselor, explain your situation. See what the reneging policy is, if they have one.

2) If you get blacklisted for reneging, do not reneg. Worst case, you work for Citi this summer, they do not offer you or they fold, and you go out to recruiting with IBD experience. If you take the DB and get blacklisted, you damn well better get a FT offer.

3) If you don't get blacklisted, take DB. It's just safer. You can always shop an offer around from DB if you get one, and if not you can use OCR to get another shot. If Citi is still around and hiring FTs this fall, I guess that's one less place to recruit at, but there are plenty of others who will at least interview you.

Is hiring even going to take place in the fall? I would think most of the firms would fill their analyst class with summer analysts.

some firms leave few spots for FT recruiting. i know for sure JPM doesn't do that, but i know for sure GS does.

which office is this? is DB's group in that city better? kinda hard to pick a bank using only overall prestige (or lack thereof). Let's figure that out before guessing whether or not Citi will survive.

I think that you can get a great experience at citi and if you burn bridges with your school's OCR, it'll be next to impossible to get a FT offer next year. also, citi is ranked higher still for IB, and if you're rating on safety, well I just don't think uncle sam will let tens of billions of dollars of their investments to go under. the u.s. gov will not let citi disappear, but I can't say the same about DB if they start having major problems.

Prestige means ZILCH this environment. In today's market, you're lucky to have a job. Look what happened to all the people who picked Lehman/Merrill/Bear over less "prestigious" firms two years ago. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the old rules to recruiting no longer apply today. You gotta look at the bigger picture and STOP worrying about the vault rankings, 06 league tables, name recognition or whatever you guys use to make decisions.

With that being said, look at where Citi is trading at right now. Look at how many time's the government has had to step in and look and see how Citi's earnings and share price reacted. The next logical step is nationalization/the share goes to zero. In that case, you can be assured that saving Citi's banking/capital markets division will be the last of President Obama's priorities. Given all this, it is beyond me how anyone can consider Citi more "prestigious" than DB...

It's not that they all think citi is more prestigious, they are simply implying that if he goes against the offer he signed he could lose out alot more in the long run. If you reneg you may loss full time recruiting at your school, and that would be a HUGE lose. So, have you decided on what you are going to do?

i definitely would not renege if you loose OCR going into your senior year. If you have a top IB on your resume, you will definitely get interviews next fall even if you dont get that offer at Citi etc. If you choose to go with Citi, tell DB recruiters your situation, how you would rather join their firm etc, but made a commitment. Keep those contacts for next year.

I suspect that the people inside Citi will understand if you renege. They will not like it, but they will understand, and I doubt you will not be blacklisted by them personally, or that they will even remember you in two months.

The problem you face is really your OCR. If someone in the HR dept decides to rat you out, they will call your OCR folks. Some campuses will ban you from OCR for reneg'ing an offer. I would suggest that you talk to your OCR office first and explain exactly what is going on.

All that said, you are a Junior and I'm not sure I see the massive concern about a summer at Citi. It's like you're getting a free one-year call option on a volatile commodity (job at Citi). Take the Citi job, and you will have one crazy summer of probably doing VP-level work because so many low level people have been laid off or left. Great experience, which is supposed to be what a summer internship is about.

First off, the odds of most big banks even hiring FT people this fall are very slim.

Secondly, if your school really bans you from OCR because you look out for yourself by reneging from an insolvent bank, then they're just as out of touch with reality as the banks themselves are. Explain you situation to a career counselor. I'm sure they'll understand..

Thanks guys!

I talked to my OCR (they were actually very understanding of the situation and didn't say anything about me being banned if I renege.. until I asked.) and a couple of friends. I pretty much know what I will be doing but don't want to post it on a public site. I hope it doesn't bite me in the arse. Either way, I'm pretty much fcked SAing at any of the BBs right now with the markets the way they are.

lol...

he would've been better off at Citi after all...

Maybe he ended up in commercial banking.