GS vs. MS London
Sitting on a GS FT offer after doing the summer there last year. Just finished an Off Cycle at MS and received the full-time offer. I know what team the offer is for at MS (one of the top teams in London) but team selection for GS has not been finalised yet. This uncertainty is making me consider taking MS over GS, even though GS is still the premier M&A franchise out of EMEA.
Conversely, whilst the MS team I was in was very strong, the culture wasn't exactly premier.
Thoughts? I could do with some advice.
I don't understand why you wouldn't know GS team - they give team-specific FT offers based on the 2 teams you would have interned in?
Yes that is true. But I asked for an extension to sign the FT offer in order to do the MS off cycle and a PE internship. That meant that HR told me my team wouldn't necessarily be the coverage group I interned with. I know it will be a coverage group and not a financing group but what coverage group depends on headcount now, unfortunately.
If you didn't like the culture at MS, go to Goldman - you'll thank yourself in the long run.
I don't know my GS team so can't know for sure that the culture would be better unfortunately
Speak to GS’s HR and say that you want to be in X/Y/Z coverage - I would give 3 (ie the one you interned in, the one you did at MS and an other one) and try to narrow it down this way.
If you didn’t like the culture at MS no point of forcing yourself into that - MS tends to run leaner teams so longer hours and the culture is more intense than GS which is more friendly from what I’ve seen/experienced. I would also much rather be in the City than in Canary Warf.
Don't underestimate the CW/City difference haha
Yes, it's a good point about the culture, but it's hard to walk away from the MS team as it would (almost) guarantee me great exit ops in the future.
Not actually too fussed about city v CW, get some pretty great places in CW for good value if I choose to live near the office.
If that works for you either way, then that's a point that we can disregard.
Will you be joining a product (I know that that's most likely to granual here :) ) at MS? Industry v Product would be something to consider re your preferences.
I don't think that industry groups at GS/MS make a real difference as London PE recruiting is not that keen on specific groups in my opinion.
How much did you dislike your group at MS? If its either unpleasant or you just don't feel very comfy with them, then take the GS offer and don't look back. HR may help you to get in touch with some groups at GS before confirming your group.
Hope that helps!
It's a sector team at MS (so not M&A if that's what you were thinking because I know that's regarded as one of the top teams).
Interesting that you don't think groups make a difference, I think they do for MF PE. Some groups place better than others, even at top BBs, after going through Linkedin.
Not that I hated my MS group at all, just that it wasn't what I was expecting, perhaps my hopes were too high given that it is a professional environment and these people are your colleagues not best friends.
From any of the groups at GS/MS you’ll be given a shot at any process for all the funds. The only reason while you may see certain groups have better exits is because of the selection bias - I think I know which group you are referring to at MS, and this group has an OK culture because it is mostly seen as a stepping stone. It’s full of people that just go there knowing they’ll exit after 2-3 years, so the top people that want to exit will tend to pick this group. Thus people are nice but not super friendly as they don’t intend to work with you for 5 years - a good chunk of the group won’t be there anymore once you join for FT.
Worked at Citi in a good group which isn't considered "top notch". Liked the team a lot because I felt all of them chose it because of genuine interest. Can echo what Pan European said, as the "top PE exit groups" do attract a certain kind of people. We actually were hanging out in our free-time among analyst/associates.
Some people like that more-than-average competitive PE-exit environment though! However, my takeaway for London was that if you're at an American BB you definitely have a shot at MFs or strong euro funds such as Cinven/EQT/CVC. So GS/MS is a toss-up in that perspective.
Maybe someone can opine on this as that's just an ex-intern perspective :)
I'd really advise you to call HR to narrow it down to 2-3 groups. Hope MS isn't urging for a quick decision though. What's your deadline?
How would your opinion regarding exits, dealflow and culture be on the following MS teams: 1.) M&T, 2.) Healthcare 3.) Industrials?
In my humble opinion: 1) M&T 2) HC, and a distant 3) Industrials
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