Help!!! Group and Industry preference for Goldman Sachs
Hi everybody,
I have an internship with Goldman Sachs and I was asked to rank in order of preference the following groups and industry's ( Combine them) I have no idea what Goldman sachs group stands out, ( Work environment) and if you have any inside info of both the groups and the industry's. I am also curious as in which industry and group is a good choice for the current recession.
Product Groups:
Equity Capital Markets
FIG Financing
Investment Grade Capital Markets
Industry Groups:
Consumer Retail
Financial Institutions
Healthcare
Industrials
Natural Resources
Public, Sector & Infrastructure
Technology, Media & Telecom
TMT is known as the best group on the street but is ultra tough to get into. dont know much about the rest, im sure others on here will
They are also asking me to match product group and industry group
ex: FIG Financing with TMT etc
If you can get into, the operative word is CAN,TMT is the way to go. GSachs TMT s oneof the best groups on the Street up there with MS M&A.
What If I dont get TMT, what should be my other choices in your opinion? Also what product group with TMT?:
Equity Capital Markets FIG Financing Investment Grade Capital Markets????
Thanks
GS Healthcare, Consumer Retail, and FIG are all top notch as well.
I would really push for GS Healthcare if I were you. It is a fairly recession proof area where you will get good experience. Compared to most healthcare groups that are sweatshops, GS HC is said to have pretty reasonable hours. That comes from speaking with several bankers who work in HC groups at various BB firms (including GS).
But if you really have balls, and truly want to be the best, try asking for Goldman M&A ;)
Are you on crack...?
Were you asked to rank this before or after getting an offer? Just curious how they do it, and whether your choice affects your chances at an offer or if it's just for your preference.
The Product Groups in GS are separate from Industry groups, so there isn't a TMT Capital Markets. So you can either be in a product group or an industry group. I personally prefer the industry groups.
And as said, TMT is very good, CR and HC are also impressive and within the firm FIG gets a ton of resepct
i am assuming this is the accelerated interview program. Is this the only FT recruiting GS will do this year?
hey i also received an offer from GS and have to start thinking about group preferences. from what i gather, tmt, fig are top notch but what about natural resources group, healthcare [how does it stack up again ubs hc or jpm hc?], energy? and how can i start networking at GS now to get a competitive advantage from my peers? does this mix and match process involve meeting and greeting people from all groups etc? thanks in advance.
1) Do you know anyone at the firm? 2) Did anyone you interview email you back or call to congratulate you? 3) Did you network prior to the interview?
Start with those people - often times if you just drop a "would you talk to me about your group" type of line, the door will open up and they will likely ask if you were thinking about other groups (and subsequently put you in touch with bankers they know in those groups).
Also, don't make the mistake of picking the group based solely on prestige...talk to people and find out who you could stand sitting next to at all hours of the day. And if you have friends you can talk to, find out which groups have MD/VPs that aren't heartless and make you spend hours on useless pitches.
hey masnariktap..thanks for commenting. i do know a few people but not any strong relationships from before. two interviewers did email me and congratulate me on the offer. the network that i have is kind of limited - i know people in gs private equity and one in GSAM. one of my interviewers really took a liking to me so maybe i can get coffee or talk to her over the phone about her group? does that sound appropriate to ask your interviewer for coffee/lunch/phone convo to discuss their group? i am sure they will ask me why i am interested in the group - a simple - i like the people i've met, dealflow is great type of answer or more specific answers?
i have also heard that GS is kind of bad at FT conversion [50% this yr], is this true? thanks once again.
I heard the rate was something like 90% this year. Didn't get this from HR or anything, so don't kill me if I'm wrong.
GSAM probably won't know much about the IB groups. However, a common track for both PEG and PIA (not sure which one you are talking about) is to be an IB analyst for a couple years and move to those arms. So, those people could be very knowledgeable about the groups.
If it were me, I would first start with the two people who called you after you got your offer (surprised they didn't say anything about helping actually). Shoot them an email and ask them if they are willing to talk to you about group selections (wait until the email comes from HR though). If you have even a remote interest in their group, tell them that (but don't go overboard). If they don't ask during the convo, bring up that you were also interested in industrials and TMT (or whatever your liking) and wanted to get their thoughts on those groups. They liked you enough to call you - they will be happy to help (and maybe "pitch" their group). I don't think they will ask too many questions about "why" you want to be in the group...but if they do, keep it simple - they know more about the group than you ever will. e.g. maybe in a project during school you worked on TIF and the business was interesting so you thought maybe you'd be interested in consumer retail - whatever.
As for medium, I'd just see if they had a few spare minutes to talk on the phone. Don't annoy them!
SA I assume?
GS has a bad FT conversion 'cause they are known to scout around and take bankers from other banks (who did internships at other BB's) and also experienced hires and other FT superstars. They poach a lot as well.
This is just hearsay, but one of my friends did an internship in PSI and really disliked it. I'd say go for a group like TMT or FIG if you can.
Is Lev Fin not an option?
you know other top notch kid are choosing tmt, so i would say...
classic ibd all the way
I would argue to not take FIG for a several reasons: 1) The group works very long hours 2) It is a very specialize skills set (different modeling, etc.) 3) With the above, it can potentially limit your exit ops (width, not quality of) 4) It is a different sort of personality in FIG (lots of super smart Wharton kids)
However, you do get a sweet experience and the space is very active. Also, the analyst go to some of the sickest shops out there afterwards.
Bottom line (that I think many people on this board overlook, because all they consider is prestige / perception from friends): Pick a group you have a legitimate interest in. If you couldn't give a shit about how a pulley manufacturer operates, you will not "enjoy" modeling, researching, learning the industry, etc. Also, if someday down the road you want "move to industry" it would be nice to work in a sector you have experience in.
While 1 and 2 are correct, I'm not too sure on 3 and 4. The analysts I know from FIG have been able to go to a variety of top buyside shops - both hedge funds and PE - and oftentimes not in the same industry. The cliche is "if you can model a bank, you can model anything" and it seems to ring true, at least for GS.
As to your point 4 - I think there is one Wharton analyst total in FIG. Plenty of Harvard and Princeton people however. Definitely super-smart, but all groups are.
That said, you should pick a group that interests you. I personally wasn't that interested in Financials when choosing groups so I went elsewhere. Thinking back, it might have been a pretty interesting choice as the last year and half have been a pretty exciting time for financial institutions, and they'll probably see a flurry of consolidation activity in the near future. Might see the same thing play out in healthcare now that Obama's reforms have passed, who knows.
thanks a lot for your thoughts. yes this is for SA and I hv also been advised by others to stay away from FIG. the HR lady also said that all the groups are going to get a resume book for the 2010 class and they will contact you if they find your resume impressive etc. but i want to start networking now since i am already in the city and can get coffee/lunch with some people. the groups i like so far are tmt, healthcare, energy, industrials, cr. nrg and lastly fig.
is it inappropriate to ask for the ppl you interviewed with to introduce them to other people in different groups?
btw they did all say that i should call them if i had any questions etc.
Yeah, they will help you out. If you find a group that you really like, then you need to talk to some people in the group - it will increase your chances of getting picked. They won't get the resume book until the class of 2010 is complete, so I wouldn't count on them contacting you.
FIG pidgeonholes however. a 2ndary of TMT may be healthcare.
I know GS has a financial sponsors group, but it doesn't really get talked about much on this board. How does the group do in terms of dealflow/ culture/ and exit opps? GS also doesn't have the strongest Lev Fin group primarily because it doesn't muscle with its balance sheet like a JPM or a BoA-ML, but a lot of people have recommended joining this group. Any thoughts on doing financial sponsors coverage or lev fin at GS?
yea would like to hear about gs fin sponsors and lev fin as well. thanks.
I think what masnariktap was getting at with point 4, and one that I can confirm, is that FIG tends to be a bit "nerdier" than most other groups. A friend of mine a year ahead of me from school works in FIG at GS, and he is a super-dork (he admits to it) and has said that pretty much everyone in FIG is just like him. We all are a bit nerdy at heart, but from his comments, FIG is made up of those brilliant nerds with lower social skills.
I work at GS FIG and had to register just for this. I think I know exactly who you are talking about. You/he are from a top northeast LAC? If so, let's just say your friend is an outlier in his class. Not to say the group isn't full of exceptionally intelligent, bookish types but when you also have kids from Indiana, Penn State, and a bunch of frat boys from Princeton and Georgetown you're going to have a hard time convincing me that everyone in the group is a super-dork. (At least more so than any other group at GS)
If anyone has a question about GS FIG - give me a private message, I doubt I'll be posting again.
Well, he has told me the group -- at least the people he interacts with -- are fairly socially-inept. I apologize if I'm bringing the wrong information, as I personally do not have experience with the GS FIG group (I actually interviewed there, and the associate staffer that interviewed me had absolutely ZERO social skills -- ironic), but figured I could contribute some information based on his views. He certainly isn't the most social kid, but we have a lot in common due to our work environments so he's pretty easy to talk to.
Not THE top LAC in New England, but certainly well-regarded. He'd be a Y2 Analyst, and I'm pretty sure he intends to stay on for Y3 if that helps.
OP and others, feel free to disregard my previous post -- better off listening to an actual GS FIG employee than to the second-hand info I've got.
hah. I didn't really mean "nerdier" - just a different type of culture. Much more intense than others...I'm not sure I could keep up.
But to RedGrenadine's post, that is all very true. Strike my number three.
Yes, the staffer has no social skills at all - much different than the last one. I would say the associate/vp range has a slightly "nerdier" bend. The analysts, especially new ones below my year seem to be rather fun and sociable.
Yes, the culture is exceptionally intense, I'm sure that's been repeated ad nauseum. Just something you sign up for. Everyone my year that wanted it will be leaving for large-cap PE, both in generalist and FIG roles. Those that stayed will be direct-promotes to associates. Year before us had a fair split between hedge funds and PE.
I'm done being on a computer on xmas but hope this was helpful. message me if you have questions and i'll try to get around to them sometime.
I'd say GS TMT - with ECM (TMT ECM does a good bit of business) - the reason they pair you with industry is in case you get put into a product group you can still work within that verticle
in fact, choose ECM with all the groups because investment grade DCM is really boring.
1) TMT 2) Healthcare 3) Real Estate 4) FIG 5) At this point its a crapshoot if none of the above 4 want you - so choose Nat Res / Power - its a hot area
i mentioned fig as #1 choice because of the modeling (a bit unique so you can say it pigeonholes you if you want to be negative), exit opps (as impressive as tmt, ms m&a, cs finspon), new age of pe will be financial institutions (uplifting of regulations)
just my 2c
Thoughts on Healthcare and NatRes, specifically?
just saving this... yes i know it's old
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