HELP! Which offer to pick for SA? UBS London IBD vs Citi Frankfurt, Germany IBD (M&A)

Crayons's picture
Rank: Chimp | 6

OK, so the two options I have to pick from ASAP are:

> UBS IBD London, UK (generalist - could be anything from M&A, through ECM to LevFin), 9 week programme, of which one is training.

> Citi IBD Frankfurt, Germany (generalist on paper, but mainly M&A as far as I know), around 10 weeks programme.

Further info:
> UBS pays twice as much as Citi (in Frankfurt banks do not pay pro-rata analyst salaries to summer analysts, but living cost is also lower there)
> Personal fit was very good at UBS, but even better at Citi.
> Met six people face to face at UBS, twelve at Citi (including ones from London office whom I met at networking events in the UK). Got along great with every single person from Citi.
> Interviews at Citi where much more challenging technically, hence more interesting than UBS, leading me to the impression I may potentially learn more there.
> Citi has on the job training sessions throughout the internship.
> Citi Frankfurt ranks the top 4 or 5 in the German league table, and has worked on very interesting deals in the past year. How does UBS compare?

Factors to take into account:
> I want to secure a full-time analyst position (I will graduate after that summer analyst stint).
> Worried about cuts at UBS recently (I know it was mainly their fixed income division, nonetheless...).

So, I'd be interested in any Europe based users to give their insight on what to choose and why...

I need to decide by tomorrow.

Thanks!

Comments (10)

Jan 31, 2013

I am just a college kid. but based on reading this, you sound like in your mind, you want Citi. If this has truly interested you more and you are worried about ubs cuts....seems like a clear cut choice.

Jan 31, 2013

Sounds like you already have your mind made up with Citi. Salary as a SA should never be a factor in deciding offers... you're only going to be there for a few months.

Jan 31, 2013

I am in another European country.
Here Citi gives 1 offer every 4/6 interns they have. I can name at least 4/5 people that were studying with me or that are currently working with me that interned there (Citi IBD - Country Coverage, South Europe country) and did not receive an offer because they did not have headcount in this country (even if they had a very high feedback).
You have to check if this is the same in your country first of all.
Also, note that it is better to be in London than in any other European country for banking, even if Citi is strong in Frankfurt. You will have the chance to work with more people (and learn from them), meet more people, see more products, countries, industries (if it is a generalist program) and you will have access to headhunters (top SAs are recruited during the summer to join firms such as BX PE, Silver Lake, etc.).
I did intern in a BB in Continental Europe (tier 1 bank) and I had the feeling that the overal learning experience in London is much better.
Note, also, that you usually don't have access to any events the HRs will organize during the summer for interns if you are not placed in LDN. This is a minor issue but it is a great opportunity to network and spend time out of office.

Finaly, a friend of mine had, at the same time, an offer for a second tier BB (Barclays, HSBC, BNP) for London and an offer for a Tier 1 BB (MS, GS, JPM) in continental europe. He called the tier 1 bank, said that he was interested in London and that he was not going to accept an offer for Europe and after a while they offered him a position in London (SA). During the internship he was recruited for BX PE... so think about leveraging the offer at UBS to ask Citi if they can move you to London...

Jan 31, 2013

Literally everything you said except pay is in favor of Citi. Go with Citi.

Jan 31, 2013
Crayons:

OK, so the two options I have to pick from ASAP are:

> UBS IBD London, UK (generalist - could be anything from M&A, through ECM to LevFin), 9 week programme, of which one is training.

> Citi IBD Frankfurt, Germany (generalist on paper, but mainly M&A as far as I know), around 10 weeks programme.

Further info:
> UBS pays twice as much as Citi (in Frankfurt banks do not pay pro-rata analyst salaries to summer analysts, but living cost is also lower there)
> Personal fit was very good at UBS, but even better at Citi.
> Met six people face to face at UBS, twelve at Citi (including ones from London office whom I met at networking events in the UK). Got along great with every single person from Citi.
> Interviews at Citi where much more challenging technically, hence more interesting than UBS, leading me to the impression I may potentially learn more there.
> Citi has on the job training sessions throughout the internship.
> Citi Frankfurt ranks the top 4 or 5 in the German league table, and has worked on very interesting deals in the past year. How does UBS compare?

Factors to take into account:
> I want to secure a full-time analyst position (I will graduate after that summer analyst stint).
> Worried about cuts at UBS recently (I know it was mainly their fixed income division, nonetheless...).

So, I'd be interested in any Europe based users to give their insight on what to choose and why...

I need to decide by tomorrow.

Thanks!

UBS generalist is either M&A execution, industry/country teams or LevFin, ECM is under GCM (thus separate).
Regarding the training throughout the internship, UBS does the same; the situation of the bank is quite different compared to US, much higher dealflow and still a strong name for IBD (especially in certain sectors i.e. TMT, FIG or Industrials). The conversion rates were also pretty high last summer (around 60-70%).
Having said that, go with Citi if you feel that it will be a better fit for you, the work you'll be doing is more or less the same in any place and the people you have around make the difference.

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Jan 31, 2013

Trash comments here...

Go with UBS. Yeah, Citi is maybe in a better position now and what not, but the location difference is huge!

How many people in Frankfurt get recruited by headhunters? What are the exit opps? Salary difference? All in favor of London for sure... networking opportunities cant even be compared. You will also learn more in the UK, although Germany is very technical and you skills will be good in that sense.

Also, if you plan on working in Germany FT, summer in UK will be valued much more than the one in done home, at least in my opinion. International experience is viewed as something prestigious in Germany...

Let us know what you picked.

Jan 31, 2013

Agree with Battleship (not for the money though, if you are going to get the same as in London (FT) (in my country it is like that), you will save a lot more with lower cost of life. But you should not think about this factor at this point in you career).

Jan 31, 2013

Thanks for the informative comments from everyone!

Cheers and SB to Thorin for pointing out that ECM is within GCM, I was under the impression that it is part of IBD. I'm definitely not that keen on ECM, and was a bit worried about being put in ECM in London, so that info alleviates my doubts. Btw, I'm assuming the conversion rates you posted are for London?

Will post on here to tell you guys how I decided soon, once I finally make up my mind.

Jan 31, 2013
Crayons:

Thanks for the informative comments from everyone!

Cheers and SB to Thorin for pointing out that ECM is within GCM, I was under the impression that it is part of IBD. I'm definitely not that keen on ECM, and was a bit worried about being put in ECM in London, so that info alleviates my doubts. Btw, I'm assuming the conversion rates you posted are for London?

Will post on here to tell you guys how I decided soon, once I finally make up my mind.

Yes, London IBD.

Nov 10, 2013
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