How is female quota not considered sexist?

You have a different genitelia = you have a higher chance of getting hired. Thats literally the definition of sexism? How is tgat not illegal?

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Comments (31)

Controversial
Jun 7, 2021 - 12:41pm

I'll try to give an explanation. As an Irish man, and a Catholic at that, we'd face huge discrimination in northern Ireland by the Protestant community. We'd write our address on job applications and if it was a predominantly Catholic area or we had a Catholic surname we were sure to not get hired. It didn't matter that we were equally matched, discrimination occurred nonetheless. Using quotas forces people to hire until we get to the stage where we no longer need them.

In America, the black community faced untold discrimination. Yes, legally they could be hired but in practice they weren't. This ultimately results in many turning to crime as society rejects them. So the government, after listening to some economists, decided to use quotas. This way and only this way could society as a whole eventually become equal. We can't debate equality when there's not already a level playing field.

So now there are minorities and LGBT still being hired as well as women. It is still true to say that some of these groups are discriminated against and some have tougher economic upbringings. I'd be more in favour of socioeconomic economic based hiring. In the past, it was clear the minorities were disenfranchised but nowadays all genders and races can be. E.g poor white guy from Detroit Vs Carlton banks.

That's the logic, that's the rational. There was a reason for it, and I believe it was the correct choice to be made. When will it stop/change to looking at people's socioeconomic status instead of their race/gender/sexual orientation? Idk.

Edit: Chuck all the monkey shit you want, all I did was give the explanation and expressed some disagreement with how it currently is and some agreement with why it came into place initially. If you think that black women in the 1950s had equal rights/opportunities as white men then don't bother commenting. 

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Jun 7, 2021 - 5:12pm

For someone on the other side of this argument, this was a very well reasoned comment. +1

I think taking into account socioeconomic factors for college admissions would be a beneficial practice. However, I believe that the leg up URMs are given don't level the playing field during any normative recruiting cycle, rather they tilt the scale towards those groups. I think a lot of it has to do with SJWs in HR, who think they're making the world a better place by diversifying the company's demographic statistics, and then you have more senior guys who think it's a beneficial practice from an optics/PR standpoint. It's unfortunate that there will always be biases in the hiring process, but I'm not convinced that structural biases against white and asian males will do anything to solve that, rather they will stoke the fire for more biases down the road. For example, the achievements of a Hispanic woman being attributed to her identity as opposed to her work ethic and intelligence. But as a result of the diversity policies employed by many entry-level recruiters, is this bias irrational? I would argue it isn't, and that buck should stop when it comes to recruiting for actual jobs, though upbringing and socioeconomic status should be a factor, to some extent, in the admissions programs at universities, that make recruiting for these jobs possible in the first place.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Jun 7, 2021 - 8:04pm

I think a big problem though is who these diversity programs are taking. Just in my network alone I know two girls who are half asian/white and they've lied to say they're pacific islanders. Every underrepresented minority in these programs that I know, comes from at least an upper middle class background. For example, my school has no connections to MBB and never places. But one of my friends is hispanic, although his parents are solidly upper middle class, and he got it. He's a good friend of mine, and a very smart guy, but literally never would have gotten the opportunity if it weren't for the program. Compare that to someone else who lived in abject poverty, worked throughout college, but still maintained a good GPA, and had no way in to MBB

Most Helpful
Jun 7, 2021 - 11:45pm

Is this a fucking troll?

As an Irish man, and a Catholic at that, we'd face huge discrimination in northern Ireland by the Protestant community

Yeah and guess what? The Irish Catholics immigrated to the United States and faced discrimination here too. People thought of the Irish as poor, drunken criminals, and "No Irish Need Apply" signs sprung up everywhere. And then... this sentiment started to disappear. Did the Irish get diversity programs? Were there Irish Leadership Seminars at JP Morgan or Ford Motors? Yeah, no. The Irish assimilated, worked hard and used everything that this country had to offer to lift themselves up. Just like the Jews, Asians, Italians, and practically every other group that immigrated to this country and faced similar discrimination. The reason blacks are behind is because of their defective culture, especially in the inner cities (which both they and well-intentioned gov't policies are responsible for). Those that don't take part in this culture move up, with or without diversity programs.

So now there are minorities and LGBT still being hired as well as women. It is still true to say that some of these groups are discriminated against and some have tougher economic upbringings

Gays are one of the highest earning demographics in this country. Why the fuck do they need a leg up? That should be DAMNING EVIDENCE that diversity programs are total, utter horseshit. Stop acting as if they were thoroughly researched by "economists" and the government to lift people up. They might have been well-intentioned initially, but now they are merely tools that politicians use to pander and that companies use to avoid getting sued for racism or homophobia.

When will it stop/change to looking at people's socioeconomic status instead of their race/gender/sexual orientation? Idk.

These bullshit programs will never end. It is too politically unpopular to end them. We've gotten ourselves into this and now there is no way out. I encourage everyone to abuse the shit out of these programs. I became a bisexual hispanic just a few weeks ago, actually.

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  • Intern in S&T - FI
Jun 8, 2021 - 5:46am

You're being intellectually dishonest in the first part of your comment. Why do you think Irish people were able to assimilate in a way black or hispanic people couldn't? Because when you're white, and you have an American accent, who is to know? When you're judged by the colour of your skin, who won't know? Your comment is riddled with borderline racist dribble.

Jun 8, 2021 - 12:23pm

I gave an explanation as to why they exist in the first place. 

Is what a troll? Are you aware of what occurred in Northern Ireland? There are thousands dead because of it. 

You don't think the fact there was still legalised segration of blacks up (Jim Crow) until the 1960s, faced backlash from the KKK as well as having no real ability to get jobs played a part?  Not all forms of oppression are equal. No you say, they should just "assimilate" and move on like the rest of us. It's not the same. You mention groups that immigrated, not those that were taken to the country to be enslaved in far greater numbers. They're not comparable. I know what you want me to say is that "blacks should just get a job". Do I think there needs to be some change within the community? Yes, but I've no right to speak for others. But it's not just the fault of them, it's all the medias fault for idolising and glorifying the life of a gangbanger and get-rich quick schemes. 

Why are you creating a strawman argument about LGBT in particular? I said some of the groups are discriminated against, but so are ALL groups by some people. I fail to see how anyone could tell if you're gay in an interview unless you dress so flamboyant the interviewer faints from a gay overdose.

Saying "they just need to change and stop doing that" does nothing. It's like telling a compulsive liar to be truthful, a depressed person to be happy or a homeless person to buy a house. Stop hating on people and maybe we can come to a solution that benefits us all ultimately.

I do agree there's a lot of BS around some of these programme, that's undeniable. 

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Jun 8, 2021 - 12:42pm
iercurenc:
The Irish Catholics immigrated to the United States and faced discrimination here too. People thought of the Irish as poor, drunken criminals, and "No Irish Need Apply" signs sprung up everywhere. And then... this sentiment started to disappear. Did the Irish get diversity programs? Were there Irish Leadership Seminars at JP Morgan or Ford Motors? Yeah, no. The Irish assimilated, worked hard and used everything that this country had to offer to lift themselves up. Just like the Jews, Asians, Italians

Ahh yes, those ethnicities assimilated in a time where you didn't even need a high school diploma to get ahead while at the same time black people weren't even able to get those jobs. Don't forget government welfare that was denied to black people all those groups would've been eligible for.

 You guys love to use the government as your whipping board for how we got here with disproportionate misfortunes in the black community. But in reality, racism was the overarching issue that weaved its way into everything including government.

Jun 8, 2021 - 12:42pm

This is literally just the classic model minority myth. Basically: "Asians, Jews, Italians, and the Irish, have such strong cultures that they are able rise above other oppressed minorities."  Not only does this hurt these groups, as any anti-Asian or antisemitism rhetoric is often not noticed as much. But when you use it the same way as the KKK does, you promote anti-Black rhetoric. All aforementioned groups faced incredibly challenging times, but Asians, Jews, Italians, and the Irish, didn't achieve economic success because of their "culture" they achieved because white people became less racist to them. Also, immigrants always do better than Americans in basically every field because of selective immigration that brings in the top talent from foreign nations. Its the reason African women who immigrated earn more than white American women.

Finally, how should we go about fixing "The reason blacks are behind is because of their defective culture?" Please enlighten me.

Jun 7, 2021 - 2:47pm

It is sexism for sure, but the world is currently WOKE and looking to put even more sexist and racist quota's in place. Feel free to identify as a woman and meet that requirement since we cant even admit there is a difference anymore in some circumstances. 

  • NA in IB-M&A
Jun 8, 2021 - 10:15am

Is there any way to sue a company that doesnt hire you because youre a different (male) sex?

Jun 8, 2021 - 12:00pm

You would need concrete evidence that your gender was the precise reason why you were not hired. I would be surprised if a company was careless enough to allow you to build a case, but you could sue if you have proof and not just a hunch.

I’m a fun guy. Obviously I love the game of basketball. I mean there’s more questions you have to ask me in order for me to tell you about myself. I'm not just gonna give you a whole spill... I mean, I don't even know where you're sitting at
  • NA in IB-M&A
Jun 8, 2021 - 12:05pm

I was told in an interview for a MM PE that the opening is specifically a female. No evidence to back it up unfortunately

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Jun 8, 2021 - 12:42pm

Shut up man, you know that's not what he said. 

"How clueless do you have to be to write "You have a different genitelia = you have a higher chance of getting hired" to describe women's privilege?"

He's not entirely wrong. What he said is statistically a correct statement. 

Jun 8, 2021 - 11:08am

It's simple: liberals hate men

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

  • 1
Jun 8, 2021 - 12:43pm

Interestingly enough the only category Trump did worse in than 2016 was white males which ultimately led to his loss.

Array

Jun 8, 2021 - 12:43pm

Let's specify: upper class white males who live in coastal cities, who preach wokedom yet are never personally impacted by it. No skin in the game. 

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

Jun 8, 2021 - 11:19am

it's been going on for years with minorities. I usually hear the argument that minorities are oppressed therefore they need the extra help getting a job... ok but thats been happening for well over a decade. and the quotas don't make sense. the UK is 86% white (was 92% in 2001), how are companies trying to recruit 25% black workforces lmao. 

it's all a rigged game anyway... soon these jobs will be full of sub-par candidates that are a) somehow oppressed or b) got the job through a connection. 

I encourage all other straight white males to say you are a disabled black female. I do on all my apps. If we all do it their system fails. 

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