If you could work directly under one Wall Street Titan, who would it be?

thefinancekid's picture
Rank: King Kong | banana points 1,243

From all-star banker Frank Quattrone, buyout magnate Henry Kravis, to hedge fund legend Steve Cohen - there are always people we aspire to be or in the least look up to. If you had the chance to choose ANY big names to work directly for, who would it be and why?

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Comments (139)

Jul 23, 2017

It will be myself at my own boutique for 500 Watchmojo

Jul 30, 2017
bernie madoff's dead son mark:

It will be myself at my own boutique for 500 Watchmojo

Savage user name

Jul 23, 2017

Lazard's Andre Meyer. Read about his work ethic and the the praise he received from David Rockefeller, the Kennedy family and others. This guy really knew his way with people and emphasized the importance of interpersonal relationships over finance. He said that if you knew important people, important people would want to know you. He was also mentor to Felix Rohatyn and pioneered the M&A market after World War 2. Meyer was French but he escaped France when World War 2 started and moved to the US where he stayed even after the war

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Jul 25, 2017

Jimmy Lee

Jul 23, 2017

Bernie Madoff

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Jul 23, 2017

ELON MUSK.

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Jul 29, 2017

Definitely would agree! Though not a wall st titan, guy is one of the smartest people out there.

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Jul 23, 2017

You won't be throwing MONKEYSHIT when you're riding the HYPERLOOP TUNNEL for TESLAS that the he built on MARS!

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Jul 26, 2017

Calm down, Trump-tweet.

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Jul 23, 2017

Not one, but a team. The all-star team from the 90's: Long Term Capital Management's founders.

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Jul 29, 2017

I would understand wanting to work for Meriwether at Salomon, but LTCM? What a bunch of wankers.

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Jul 23, 2017

Gordon Gekko

Jul 23, 2017

Simons. Then I'll invest my money in Medallion and sit back.
Otherwise, Dimon because JPM is an important part of the US economy and it'll be an interesting learning experience.

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Jul 23, 2017

Ray Dalio or Howard Marks. It is their investment philosophy and company culture and returns of course that I admire.

Jul 24, 2017

I was going to say these two along with Seth Klarman.

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Jul 25, 2017

For sure Seth Klarman - love his investment style and I don't need the attention/press (looking at you Ackman), just want that $$$. Guys like Klarman don't get nearly the respect they deserve on WSO, guess he would like it that way though.

Jul 23, 2017

Warren Buffett or Steven Schwarzman

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Jul 24, 2017

I bet Warren Buffett would be stoked to be considered a "Wall Street Titan"

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Jul 24, 2017

Omaha Titan

Jul 23, 2017

Martin Shkreli

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Jul 24, 2017

I'm studying biochemistry, want to go into finance, and basically do the same as him, so I kind-of agree, though he isn't a titan.

Jul 28, 2017

You mean allegedly run a Ponzi-like scheme following risky short positions blowing up at your fund and, when discovered, raid your current company coffers to pay-off former investors who lost their money?

Or the part where he acquired a 60-year old drug that didn't have an AB-generic in the US because it wasn't economically-attractive to develop it given the previous branded price of the drug and small market size, then closed-off its distribution and jacked the price up by 4,000% overnight because he could, interrupting both patient access and generic manufacturer access to API while the entire industry reeled in response?

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Jul 24, 2017

I mean working at a hedge fund (he did before going to college), then starting your own hedge funds and pharmaceutical companies, by passionately teaching yourself chemistry and finance. He became successful at the hedge fund he worked for by recommending short positions. He claims he likes to have a 50:50 long:short portfolio so that his general market exposure is balanced. To me that makes sense, especially considering the S&P etc. are at an all time high and the market is cyclical.

For the second point, if its not economically attractive to develop/market a drug then you have to chose between either dropping it, or making it more expensive. If you chose not to raise the price, then you go out of business and no one can use it and there is no patient access to the API. If the patent is still valid then there isn't going to be a generic manufacturer either way. So to maintain patient access sometimes you have to increase the price. He also claims it was his fiduciary duty to increase the price. I think the US healthcare system is lacking and breeds these kind of business practices. Either you have change the game, socialize the system, and give up some innovation, or you keep it the same, poor people suffer, and you shouldn't hate the player. I think the latter applies to most people on this site, whereas coming from Europe I tend towards the middle.

Yes, what he is being sued for is shady. I think he has character flaws, made some mistakes, and is an attention-hoe. All I meant with "I kind-of agree" is that I would love to learn from his positive traits...

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Jul 28, 2017

1) I'm not sure you understood the big picture here. He's currently on criminal trial in the US for securities fraud and faces up to 20 years in prison if convicted because, according to the charges, he lost all his investor's money with his hedge fund and tried repaying them by raiding the coffers of the companies he later ran. If there's a more serious white collar crime to be accused of as an investor, I'm not aware of it.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crime-shkre...
"Assistant U.S. Attorney Alixandra Smith began Thursday with prosecutors' closing argument, telling jurors that Shkreli wooed investors by falsely claiming that MSMB Capital had an outside auditor and managed assets worth tens of millions of dollars.

Smith said Shkreli lost all the investors' money in 2011, but hid the loss from them. She said Shkreli used his other fund, MSMB Healthcare, to funnel money into Retrophin, which he founded in 2011.

Eventually, Smith said, Shkreli paid back investors with shares and cash from Retrophin, using fraudulent settlement and consulting agreements that were not approved by the company's directors.

'It was a way to pull money out of Retrophin, a public company, to pay back debts that were owed by the defendant,' she said of one consulting agreement."

2) That's a pretty myopic way to look at healthcare delivery systems. Yes, his argument was that he raised the drug to pay for future R&D, except that Turing doesn't really seem to actually have an R&D team or pipeline. I could probably scrape together enough cash located between my couch seat cushions to fund the R&D program they're running (i.e. reformulations of Daraprim in a "preclinical" phase). It's pretty naive to think the money was going to go anywhere but their bottom line (and, in fact, internal communications that have already been made public substantiate this as well -- google them).

The issue with Daraprim, again, was that they took a 60 year old drug, added absolutely no value to it, and proceeded to increase the price by 4,000%. Was it legal? Sure -- and yes, no one had bothered to go through a long regulatory process to produce an equivalent generic in the US despite them being available in ex-US countries. In the end, I would argue his decision to jack up the price was dilutive to society, the biotech/pharma industry (Clinton's tweet, price overhang), the company's name (and everyone associated with the companies he was at), and even his own personal well-being (I would bet a good sum of money that the negative PR did not help with the timeline of, or resources for, the charges brought against him by federal agencies). So no, I don't view it as a particularly intelligent choice in the end.

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Jul 24, 2017

I think I understand the big picture. Please understand the modality of what I'm saying. I never said lying about making losses was wrong. I never argued against the fact that the money from raising the prices was going anywhere but the bottom line.

Instead, I admire the work he put in to be in a position at such a young age where you can be trusted by investor's money and have the knowledge to know how to work the US pharmaceutical industry. Again, I acknowledge that he, not only messed up, but even worse lied about it.

Regarding Daraprim, I never said anything about R&D. I am currently interning at a small pharmaceutical company and they got off the ground by buying a phase II drug in Korea, which the original owners thought did not have a future, bypassing some regulatory hurdles in the US to get it approved, and selling it (paclitaxal). A better drug was on the market (abraxane), but a company that wanted to go public needed another one in their pipeline to successfully go public. No real value was added. It's how many small pharmaceutical companies in the US work. In almost all countries around the world, the government fixes the prices, controls insurance, and money is not lost to PBM's (so I don't think my view is myopic).

Shkreli's company bought a drug from a company cheaply, because it did not know what to do with it, did not add any value, but ultimately kept its sales alive by making selling it at an economically feasible price. Impax Laboratories was losing money on Daraprim, so they were not going to continue it and they sold it for a reason. They sell generics so they are not used to selling low volume, high price drugs.

The US has a very unique system, in how free market it is. I don't think you fully understand that big picture. It has its pros and its cons. That's a different argument. **Focusing on what are in reality systemic issues, when labelling someone as bad, who is working the pharmaceutical system, like any pharmaceutical CEO with fiduciary obligations should, takes away strength from the argument that he did not uphold his fiduciary obligations at his hedge fund. **You are confusing yourself in regard to my argument because you are mixing the two concepts: systematic issue vs. integrity. These kinds of confusions polarize us as a society, because you are emotionally arguing orthogonally to an observation, perhaps because you like the system, but not some its side effects. That's why he wears a pepe pin on his suit.

Again, I aspire to teach myself to be as knowledgeable about both finance and pharmaceuticals as Shkreli did and I think I could learn a lot from him. That is not to say that he has serious character flaws reflected in his trial and maybe he could learn from you, me, or more so the greats mentioned on this thread, about integrity...

Jul 29, 2017
Yossif:

Instead, I admire the work he put in to be in a position at such a young age where you can be trusted by investor's money and have the knowledge to know how to work the US pharmaceutical industry. Again, I acknowledge that he, not only messed up, but even worse lied about it.

Exactly. He lied. I'm not really sure what there is to admire. I would wager a small fortune he initially obtained the trust of those investors by lying to them. He's a sociopath. And not even a successful one. Give his decision track record, I think there is an argument to be made he isn't really that smart. I strongly suspect he probably learned just enough about pharmaceuticals to talk dangerously about the industry which was just the tip of the bullshit iceberg.

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Jul 24, 2017

No, you're wrong. He taught himself chemistry and finance and got recognition for recommending to short a company after figuring out a certain API molecule on which the company relied was too large to cross the blood brain barrier. That's not so easy to figure out.

He comes from a humble background and I think he is very smart and diligent, despite the fact that he has little integrity...

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Jul 28, 2017

1) It's not hard to raise money if you lie about your accomplishments and sell "biopharma knowledge" to investors who are are not experts of the industry (i.e. 99% of fund of fund managers). The key here is the lying...and also completely mismanaging the risk associated with your portfolio to the point that you lose all your investor's money. You're confusing his ability to raise money with his ability to generate returns (or, you know, do anything but lose all of it on a few bad shorts). This isn't even the moral argument here -- it's the rational one. Why would you want to emulate someone who performed so badly as a fund manager he lost his client's money, had to lie about returns to keep them from pulling out, and then had to illegally funnel funds from a company he was later running to pay for his inability to perform as an investor?

2) "They sell generics so they are not used to selling low volume, high price drugs". That's just wrong. What do you think their specialty brands division does? What do you think Rytary is? Why has Impax decided to invest in life cycle management of their specialty brands division if they do not view it as strategic to their company's future? The reason they sold it was because it wasn't a neuro asset that was acquired in the basket of the Tower Holdings deal. They then got what they thought to be a generous offering from Turing for a drug that was outside their CNS core, so they dumped it to Turing, with everyone expecting them to develop it for another indication like normal, value-adding spec pharma companies. Instead they just raised the price to collect profits knowing it would take awhile for a generic manufacturer to run through the required bio equivalence studies and push through the GDUFA process (which was backed-up at the time), and also knowing patients could not stop taking the medication and relying on someone down the pharmaceutical supply chain to have compassion in footing the bill (or bankrupting families in the process as the costs were eventually passed onto patients in the form of massive co-pays). Turing was banking on the payers just sitting idly by and not caring because the expense wasn't pushing their needle. Shkreli got a surprise when the costs got passed down to patients and they (and their physicians) started calling their Congressmen and the media. In the end they had to pull back on the price, and they're essentially blackballed from the industry at this point. And again -- what he did was legal. But it was morally reprehensible, which adds confusion as to why you would want to follow his footsteps.

Perhaps the most ironic part of your argument, though, is that you say "the US has a very unique system in how free market it is" and cite other countries as having single-payer systems. In fact, the reason market inefficiencies exist in the US pharma industry (and actually Daraprim is a prime example) is because the US drug industry is anything but a free market. It is one of the most heavily-regulated industries on the planet in terms of QC, and the specific reason why Shkreli jacked up the price of Daraprim was based on his knowledge that the FDA would not accept foreign generic equivalents to be sold in the US market before their sponsors could run the necessary bioequivalency studies to satisfy FDA approval standards. By then, Turing would have made a significant return on the initial investment of $55 mm if they were able to sustain the massive price hike. Unlike high-cost drugs that address orphan indications for which FDA grants market exclusivity following the Orphan Drug Act of 1983, or groundbreaking drugs that have IP protection associated with their novel features, the price of Daraprim was not associated with solving any particular societal problem and instead took advantage of a regulatory process that is ultimately in place to protect public health more broadly.

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Jul 29, 2017
deathTouch:

1) It's not hard to raise money if you lie about your accomplishments and sell "biopharma knowledge" to investors who are are not experts of the industry (i.e. 99% of fund of fund managers). The key here is the lying...and also completely mismanaging the risk associated with your portfolio to the point that you lose all your investor's money. You're confusing his ability to raise money with his ability to generate returns (or, you know, do anything but lose all of it on a few bad shorts). This isn't even the moral argument here -- it's the rational one. Why would you want to emulate someone who performed so badly as a fund manager he lost his client's money, had to lie about returns to keep them from pulling out, and then had to illegally funnel funds from a company he was later running to pay for his inability to perform as an investor?

EXACTLY. He lied to gain investor trust and then couldn't even generate the returns. No further analysis required. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Wanting to be mentored by Martin Shkreli is like following the Pied Piper of Hamelin.

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Jul 24, 2017

Look, I have to say you may be right about 1) and 2), but I think stringent FDA approval is not the same as price control on drugs and insurance:

If you have drug price control it does not matter how much FDA regulation you have, drugs will be affordable. If you have national insurance then the drugs will be covered. Both regulations go hand in hand. Arguing for the interests of consumers you can't imply FDA regulations are causing the problem. There is no completely free market, in the case of pharmaceuticals especially, for a good reason. These market inefficiencies therefore exist, because of a lack of price control. Consumers suffer, because of the insurance system. Not because the FDA is making sure drugs work and are safe.

He was in the Forbes 30 under 30, had his own hedge funds and pharmaceutical companies, that's all that I meant what I want, which he had. I think the system - which can definitely be improved, especially when one compares it to other countries - encouraged him to do what he did with Daraprim and this would not have been possible in other countries. I think, though the investors that said him did not lose money (some made a profit), he should not have lied to them.

This thread clarified some things for me and there better people who I could have chosen with the hedge fund and pharmaceutical company achievements, but I was just sayin'... he's immature, possibly somewhat amoral, but I think intelligent in some ways and somewhat hard working. Not trying to downplay the immature and amoral, but just trying to say there are two sides to the story.

Jul 29, 2017

He's definitely ambitious and smarter than the average bear... that's about it. I think "amoral" is being generous. I would say the guy is definitely immoral. The problem with sociopaths like Shkreli is that they try to rationalize immoral behavior as part of their thought process to convince themselves they're not doing anything wrong. This is why Pozni schemes like Madoff's can grow epically disastrous in size. "Oh yeah, I'll make it back doing XYZ and pay back all the investors." The proof is in the pudding. If you're in that position to begin with, you're not that smart of a hedge fund manager.

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Aug 11, 2017

I just logged back on after 2 months away and this thread popped up....

I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to this but I guess I'm taking sympathy on the fact that you're still studying and have yet to enter the industry... DO NOT empathize or idolize Martin Shkreli. I understand where you're coming from but your error is that you simply just haven't done the effort and legwork to understand that there are far more accomplished people that have done what you admire about Martin Shkreli without seeking notoriety or fame much less breaking laws. Consequently, you hold him up as some paradigm of a successful, self-made HC investor

Examples:

Stop taking in only a cursory understanding of finance from the media and actually start doing the legwork to understand what it takes to be successful in the industry. Find better role models or you'll probably fail. I don't even work in the HC space of investing but I know names just from keeping my ears open and a 1 min (literally) on google led me to FierceBiotech.com which actually seems to have relevant articles you'd be interested in.

Jul 24, 2017
  • SB... This was definitely a very sobering thread. I had watched too many of his educational finance youtube videos I think. I have read some articles in fiercebiotech recently and it's great. Thanks for showing me these investors. It's still hard for me to shake the notion that he is demonized and made out for dumber than is rationally fair, but ultimately, you're right in that he is not worth all this attention.
Aug 11, 2017

This is the best answer in this thread.

"When you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead."

Jul 23, 2017

Dimon or Steven Schwarzman

Dimon keeps JPM's balance sheet in his head

Steven Schwarzman - he's over the top extravagant and a fun personality

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Jul 23, 2017

Paul J. Taubman. The man was on the deal table by himself

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Jul 23, 2017

good choice!

Best Response
Jul 23, 2017

Dick Fuld

RIP LEHMAN
RIP MONACOMONKEY
RIP THEACCOUNTING MAJOR

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Jul 29, 2017

agreed

Jul 24, 2017

Le man

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Jul 31, 2017

count me in

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Jul 29, 2017

Bill Ackman

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Jul 24, 2017

Agreed. He seems to do an extraordinary amount of due diligence as evidenced by his support on the claim of Herballife being a pyramid scheme (which I also agree with).

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Jul 24, 2017

"Betting on Zero" is a pretty good documentary that covers the Ackman vs. Herbalife battle.

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Jul 24, 2017

Yep, I've seen it and loved it

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Jul 24, 2017

One of the few good finance docs on Netflix.

Jul 29, 2017

thanks for suggestion, i'll have to check this one out

Jul 24, 2017

I hope you know that Betting on Zero is a "documentary" paid for by Bill Ackman.

Great movie, but even better marketing material.

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Jul 29, 2017

He must be pretty clever or very self-deprecating, because if he paid for that documentary to be made it doesn't necessarily give him a spotless, shiny persona. They throw a little dirt on him in the movie as well. But of course a turd would appear absolutely golden compared to the business practices of Herbalife.

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Jul 24, 2017

Yeah, obviously slanted positively toward Ackman, but still doesn't negate the fact that Herbalife is a pyramid scheme. I took the documentary with a grain of salt... probably painted him out to be a little more saintlike than in person, but still arrives at the core premise of revealing how MLMs work.

@Goldmonkey Sachs Still think it's important to note what you just did (as many casual Netflix viewers blindly accept everything as fact) so +1 SB

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Jul 26, 2017

You do realize he's lost the Herbalife battle right? Along with VRX, PAH, and now looking like CMG. All of these were relatively obvious mistakes that other people spotted with a little bit of DD.

Jul 29, 2017

You do realize the Herbalife battle much like his battle with MBIA isn't over, right? Took him 7 years to hit big with MBIA. Admittedly his Valeant investment was a mistake. His PAH investment is now looking like win with a Blackstone purchase: http://www.investopedia.com/news/billionaire-ackma...
CMG will bounce back. In fact, now would be a great buy opportunity there. Two months ago they were trading at $496/share. Back then you would have said Ackman was killing it. Norovirus ain't ecoli. If they can bounce back from an ecoli scare, then Nororvirus is a fart in the wind by comparison. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Probably will go buy some CMG today.

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Jul 26, 2017

The battle with Herbalife is over. The big bet was that the regulators would shut them down and they've declined to. HLF is now in the legal clear and Ackman is now attempting to distract mgmt / hurt the business through his propaganda campaign. Quite frankly what he's doing is unethical.

I'll concede PAH, though if you read the article its hardly a win: lots of things could have made you those returns since 2013 with trivial volatility (like 2x SPX for one).

I won't argue the specifics of CMG except to say Ackman made a characteristically bold bet on a company that was (and remains) expensive by any metric. Two months ago I woudln't have said Ackman was killing it, I would have said investors were paying ridiculous forward multiples (50x) for a company with unusually elevated risks (like the fact that customers will note it and freak out w/e they have a food incident. Even before the 2015/2016 issues CMG had a terrible record of food safety. The only difference is that now customers are paying attention, so even run-of-the-mill incidents will cause further attrition. Rats falling from the cieling is not run-of-the-mill btw). Ok, so I just argued some of the specifics of CMG. I'll finish off by noting that it is also in a stupidly competitive industry facing oversupply headwinds (too many restaurants being built as we finally cross the 50% threshold on ppl eating outside the home).

Really, the point here is that Ackman is just an analyst who is sometimes right (CP, APD, GGP) and sometimes wrong,(VRX, JCP, TGT) but has apparently 0 sense of risk management. He blew up his last hedge fund with poor risk management, and , BOTTOM LINE: it appears that PSH has made hardly any money over time on a dollar basis (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/10/is-bill-ack...).
Take it from this former fanboy: Ackman is a below average manager.

Jul 29, 2017

I respect your opinion, but I vehemently disagree with your first assertion regarding Herbalife. While I think his short position is taking longer than expected, I wouldn't have a problem being long on that. I believe once enough word gets out, market forces will cause Herbalife's stock price to collapse over time. But the thing which I really, really disagree with is your idea that Ackman is somehow behaving unethical, because he is hurting Heralife's business. HERBALIFE'S ENTIRE BUSINESS MODEL IS UNETHICAL. It is predatory and most certainly a pyramid scheme. Bill Ackman shining light on this is not uenthical - it's a public service. Whether he profits from it is secondary to me in the overall grand scheme of their saber rattling.

I believe time will tell if Ackman is a below or above average manager. I don't know too many below average manager's with a billion dollar net worth.

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Jul 26, 2017
DetRustCohle:

I respect your opinion, but I vehemently disagree with your first assertion regarding Herbalife. While I think his short position is taking longer than expected, I wouldn't have a problem being long on that. I believe once enough word gets out, market forces will cause Herbalife's stock price to collapse over time. But the thing which I really, really disagree with is your idea that Ackman is somehow behaving unethical, because he is hurting Heralife's business. HERBALIFE'S ENTIRE BUSINESS MODEL IS UNETHICAL. It is predatory and most certainly a pyramid scheme. Bill Ackman shining light on this is not uenthical - it's a public service. Whether he profits from it is secondary to me in the overall grand scheme of their saber rattling.

There is a difference between 'unethical' and criminal. Is it ethical for Victoria's secret to promote models with unhealthily rail thin bodies? For Coke to advertise diabetes water to children? For Valeant to intentionally mislead PBMs in order to sell drugs at massively inflated prices?

The fact is that HLF did engage in some shady and misleading practices. The last several years of scrutiny (thanks Ackman) have forced them to correct many of these. Without acknowledging w/e or not the original business was a pyramid scheme, the FCC has granted them clearance to continue pursuing their modified business practices.

Ackman is now trying to undermine the business itself by scaring distributors and customers. This is no MBIA - a business that whose structural flaws were ignored until the GFC hit. Ackman didn't tip MBIA into default, he merely predicted it and pointed it out. What he's trying to do here is altogether more sinister.

DetRustCohle:

I believe time will tell if Ackman is a below or above average manager. I don't know too many below average manager's with a billion dollar net worth.

Yes, not too many people blow it all on increasingly ill considered bets after amassing massive AUM. Look, given his bet the farm style I have no doubt Ackman can recover in pretty short order. However, his track record on any kind of risk adjusted basis (and even on an absolute one right now) is just crap and I don't see how a risk concious investor could touch that fund with a ten footer.

Jul 29, 2017
dazedmonk:

There is a difference between 'unethical' and criminal. Is it ethical for Victoria's secret to promote models with unhealthily rail thin bodies? For Coke to advertise diabetes water to children? For Valeant to intentionally mislead PBMs in order to sell drugs at massively inflated prices?

The fact is that HLF did engage in some shady and misleading practices. The last several years of scrutiny (thanks Ackman) have forced them to correct many of these. Without acknowledging w/e or not the original business was a pyramid scheme, the FCC has granted them clearance to continue pursuing their modified business practices.

Is this a joke? Erm... yeah, there is a huge difference. Thin models are modeling underwear. Coke is advertising a sports drink. They're not encouraging you to dump your life savings or quit your job to become a model so you can fit into a size 0 or become a professional athlete. Kids have parents who can guide them on what is good for them to eat or drink. What HLF is doing is nothing short of fraud except it has much more disastrous consequences, and they intentionally prey upon desperate people, particularly, the undocumented Hispanic community. What Valeant did was fraud... and their stock took a beating for it. And HLF's stock was taking a beating until Carl Icahn stepped in, because he has a vendetta with Ackman and essentially pumped it up to stop it's free fall. But make no mistake about it, Icahn will sell, because he sees the house of cards HLF is. I highly doubt HLF who is under the "watchful eye" of US regulatory bodies has anything to worry about on that end with Carl Icahn being appointed as special adviser on regulatory reform by Donald Trump. What will happen is that over time the business model won't change because that is the only way they make money (burning through the income of distributors, rinse and repeat), it's recent attempt to penetrate the Asian market will collapse (it's failing as we speak), and then the spotlight will be on them once people realize they've made no meaningful changes to their business practices. More disclosure? Meh... sure. HLF will play around with definitions. Number manipulation? Yep. But the whole business model still relies on recruiting distributors by selling them delusions of grandeur and crappy over priced products rather than selling to consumers who in turn don't buy their junk in a meaningful volume. That charade is going to end at some point. Not a question of "if" but rather "when", and the only question as I see is if Ackman can hold his position long enough to see it through. Here is a recent well researched article from SeekingAlpha on the inevitable doom of HLF: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4076807-herbalife...

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Jul 29, 2017

I look up to Ackman as an investor and corporate titan but maybe not a hedge fund manager. He takes incredible amount of risks and large concentrated bets. He's largely driven by his desire to prove himself right (as in case of HLF) and he is a very insightful business man... but to try to prove yourself with other people's money like that - not very appetizing for institutional investors. If he was running a family fund or doing these corporate battles with his own money like Carl Icahn, it'd be more fitting. Activist HF managers are certainly one of a kind.

Jul 24, 2017

Jamie Dimon = Built up JPM to where it is today + was the only bank that was relatively unscathed by the recession + seems like a great person

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Jul 29, 2017

Dimon seems to be a popular one!

Jul 26, 2017

Dimon is so cool and charming and witty in real life that it makes me uncomfortable. You don't get to that level without being something of an egotistical kineving douche. I just know i'm probably being played by that charming bastard.

Same goes for a lot of the finance titans I've met.

Lloyd Blankfein, amazingly enough, just seems like such a down-to-earth lovely person its crazy. It made me feel bad about myself lol

Jul 24, 2017

Ray Dalio or Steve Cohen - two completely different approaches to managing a hedge fund, both incredibly successful.

Jul 26, 2017

Quant puffery or insider trading. Tough call.

Jul 26, 2017

what does dalio do that you consider quant puffery? i don't know much abou to him or his fund and would honestly like to know

Jul 26, 2017

I was mostly being a douche. My two beefs against him:
1) His returns have been pretty mediocre recently but he keeps growing AUM like crazy - definitely an asset gatherer
2) Bridgewater's weird cultishness. They don't consider themselves a hedge fund, but rather a "research firm that aims to understand as much as possible about people. Markets are just one aspect of it." I think that is both pretentious and a little bit ridiculous. If someone said that to me I would have 0 interest in investing. Seriously, go take your billions and start a cult/research organization if your primary aim isn't generating returns

Jul 26, 2017

lmfao +1 SB that was good

Jul 24, 2017

Dick kovacevich or Hank Greenberg

Jul 24, 2017

seth klarman

Jul 24, 2017
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Jul 24, 2017

Ray Dalio when he started out (apparently the culture isn't that great nowadays); Dimon from a year before the recession to today.

Jul 24, 2017

Dalio - those returns.

Jul 24, 2017

No Einhorn?

Jul 24, 2017

Was just going to say Einhorn. Learn under a one of a kind investor and hopefully could get staked for Main Event in the process.

Jul 24, 2017

Finkle is Einhorn

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Jul 24, 2017

Yung Jeff Skilling

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Jul 24, 2017

not a wall street titan, but Peter Lynch

Jul 29, 2017

lynch counts in my book! Definitely one the greatest institutional value investors

Jul 28, 2017

You took my answer! Agreed

Jul 24, 2017

Bill Gross.

Jul 24, 2017

Ken Moelis, he's building a legacy

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Jul 24, 2017

Justine Tobin.

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Jul 24, 2017

Not so far fetched here... All you have to do is sell your soul for free.

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Jul 24, 2017

Runner up: Lynn Tilton. You'd literally be working under her (body pillow or footstool)

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Jul 27, 2017

Legendary

Jul 24, 2017

Carl Icahn

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Jul 24, 2017

Jesse Lauriston Livermore in 1929

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Jul 24, 2017

If you haven't read Reminiscences of a Stock Operator, it's a must as a Livermore fan. I'm sure you have if you're dropping his name...

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Jul 24, 2017

I actually have not. Just love that the guy was a trader at heart. I read an article on him at one point and found him incredibly interesting. I am not a fan of market downturns but calling one accurately and coming out on top seems like the definition of having it mastered.

Jul 29, 2017

I've read that book a while back! Really good read - one of the most compelling stories and great history on how the stock exchange worked. He was a Gatsby of sorts and really characterized Wall Street in the early 1900s. From running away from his parent's to becoming one of the richest in america to his suicide - it was all like a movie.

Jul 26, 2017

Best trading book of all time

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Jul 24, 2017

Jay Gould

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Jul 24, 2017

God, yes. I was reading through these and thinking "how the fuck is no one naming anyone from the 1800s???" and I was thinking Jay Gould/Jim Fisk as a combo, but you beat me to it.

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Jul 24, 2017

John Paulson - I think we would get along

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Jul 24, 2017

Surprised nobody has mentioned Soros, Tepper, Covner, Tudor Jones

Jul 26, 2017

Tepper 100%. Great returns, brilliant risk management, solid process.

The macro guys are just too seat of your pants undisciplined for me, though Soros in his heyday would be a heck of a ride.

Aug 8, 2017

John Frank over at Oaktree?

Matthew H. Greene

Senior Vice President, Corporate Recruitment & Talent Acquisition

Bostonian Capital Management Company

MA: 617 419 3295 / CT: 860 249 0791 / NYC: 917 210 3029

[email protected]

WWW.BOSTCAPITALMGT.COM

Jul 24, 2017

And the sleeper pick, John Arnold

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Aug 5, 2017

As a commodities guy myself this would be my pick too

Jul 29, 2017

Wow how are you commodities guys holding up nowadays?

Jul 24, 2017

i bet schwarzman is absolutely hysterical if you know him personally. Would love to work for him and hear about his outlook on things.

Jul 24, 2017

Mitt Romney - Bain Cap has always been a uniquely innovative maverick of a firm and Romney's management style and success across a variety of different management activities (whether it was saving Bain & Co from bankruptcy or saving the Salt Lake olympics) would offer a great opportunity to learn how to work hard and consistently.

Also in terms of current execs - My man Lloyd is offensively underrepresented on here. Schwartzman, Dalio, Dimon, and others are all good picks but Lloyd Blankfein is as tough and smart as Jamie Dimon and masterfully led Goldman through the purge, actually taking advantage of the chaos to further GS' hold of the top spot on the street.

Jul 24, 2017

Paul Tudor Jones, back in the 80s.

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Jul 24, 2017

Sickening that no one has said druckenmiller

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Jul 24, 2017

Jamie Dimon

Jul 25, 2017

Roger Altman;

Jul 24, 2017

Another one I would mention since this is hypothetical.... Paul Singer has been in some absolutely crazy situations with buying countries sovereign debt and then forcing them to repay through the legal system.

A lot of people refer to him as a vulture capitalist, they even name dropped him in an episode of Billions.

I've heard stories of him seizing dictators planes and trying to detain shipping vessels to get his payment faster haha.

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Jul 25, 2017
camerashy1:

Another one I would mention since this is hypothetical.... Paul Singer has been in some absolutely crazy situations with buying countries sovereign debt and then forcing them to repay through the legal system.

A lot of people refer to him as a vulture capitalist, they even name dropped him in an episode of Billions.

I've heard stories of him seizing dictators planes and trying to detain shipping vessels to get his payment faster haha.

This. So many names but Paul Singer is a bulldog who doesn't fuck around, doesn't care for emotions, and is purely driven by making money.

What he did to Argentina was fantastic. You can't borrow money, spend it like a drunken sailor, and then complain when you can't make payments that life is unfair.

Wish he would do this to Greece, Nigeria, etc.

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Jul 30, 2017

This guy sounds like a modern day Godfather/Mobster!

Jul 25, 2017

Jimmy Lee (RIP) - One of Dimon's right-hand men and a dealmaking machine. He's instrumental in developing their capital markets division (DCM and ECM) and orchestrating the LBO boom in the early 2000s, engineering a fundamental shift from junk bond financing to syndicated loans.

Michael Milken - King of junk bond financing and fueler of the 1980s LBO boom. He financed corporate raiders like Icahn and Pickens. He's currently serving a lifetime ban from the securities industry, so not sure I would aspire to work for him.

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Jul 25, 2017

Stephen Schwarzman or Henry Kravis 100%

Jul 25, 2017

Donald Trump - One of the biggest Real Estate titans in the world! Also the founder of a prestigious and well renowned University!

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Jul 25, 2017

John Pierpont Morgan

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Jul 29, 2017

Seconded

Jul 24, 2017

I'm surprised that not more people mentioned him

Jul 25, 2017

Ace Greenberg or Michael Burry

Jul 25, 2017

Bill Ackman, Ray Dalio, Carl Icahn, Seth Klarman.

Jul 25, 2017

Michael Milken

Jul 26, 2017

I will go with 5 names in no particular order:

Klarman, Abrams, Marks, Munger and Buffett

All are legends.

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Jul 26, 2017

Stephen Schwarzmann

Oh wait....

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

Jul 26, 2017

I see what you did there

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Jul 26, 2017

i am going with Julian Robertson since created legacy through tiger cubs and grandcubs or whatever they are called etc.

others would be Simons&Mercer, and probably Carl Icahn

Jul 26, 2017

Vikram Panda

Jul 26, 2017

Paul Singer, all he does is kick ass and take names.

Jul 26, 2017

Ralph Eads at Jefferies' Energy group in Houston. The group has been built into the most dominant shop for Upstream A&D and a strong Midstream business is being built out. Eads also financially engineered the financing necessary for the shale revolution in its infancy.

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Jul 29, 2017

Interesting choice +SB

Jul 28, 2017

Does anyone have a comprehensive list of these guys? My education has been somewhat lacking and I'm playing catch up. Would love to read autobiographies/research these guys.

Edit: I could compile it myself, but hoping someone already has one.

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Jul 28, 2017

Nick Leeson anyone? I know @Eddie Braverman likes him.

Jul 29, 2017

For me it would have to be Joe Plumieri. He's really underrated but a legend in his own right. Watch this clip to see what I mean:

Jul 29, 2017

Soros or March Rich (well maybe).

Jul 29, 2017

Hard to choose, but if it could be anyone living or dead it would be Sidney Weinberg, with Mayer Rothschild, Gus Levy and Felix Rohatyn all meriting serious consideration.

Jul 30, 2017

Barry Sternlicht from Starwood Capital. Dude is ridiculously in tune with the capital markets and relates it all back to his real estate projects like no one I've ever seen.

Jul 30, 2017

James Goldsmith - watched a documentary on him at around 15 about the rise of corporate raiders, which inspired me to get into finance!
Schwarzmann/Jonathan Gray has to be on that list too.

Jul 31, 2017

Dan Loeb would be one hell of a pen pal...

Surprised no one has mentioned Joe Perella... Seems like somebody who could actually be a great mentor/an honest person to work for. Also built out one of the first M&A departments in the 80's with Wasserstein during one of the more interesting times in the business.

Also, no one mentioned Michael Milken.

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Jul 31, 2017
Aug 4, 2017
Jul 29, 2017
Aug 8, 2017

Matthew H. Greene

Senior Vice President, Corporate Recruitment & Talent Acquisition

Bostonian Capital Management Company

MA: 617 419 3295 / CT: 860 249 0791 / NYC: 917 210 3029

[email protected]

WWW.BOSTCAPITALMGT.COM

Aug 9, 2017
Aug 11, 2017

"When you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead."

Aug 11, 2017