In the midst of a huge struggle!!! (Please Read)!!!!

Can you try to transfer to a less obscure college for your senior year? You might be able to get into interviews in the fall.

To be blunt, while I'm sure NDSU is not a bad school, it's probably lost in the vast "average" category with 1,000 other schools.

You might check your alumni database for anyone who works in high finance. I'd think that any alum from NDSU would go out of their way to help you, given that it's a very steep uphill battle.

I thought NDSU was a target, no?

I've asked around, but people around here don't really respect Investment Banking. In fact, the term "Wall Street" is a common insult here. No help out of NDSU.

Also, I don't see why I should have to transfer. I am a resident of North Dakota and get a full scholarship plus a yearly stipend of $5,000. Trust me, that's a lot out here.

Quite frankly, I am 100% confused by this situation. What more could I have done? When my parents told me I wasn't doing enough I thought it was just because they were being traditional Asian parents. But I mean come on! There's no way I could improve my grades from here....(GPA is 3.98)

Exact same situation for me bro. 3.99 GPA at the same 'type of school', i don't have three majors -- but i do have better EC's, and better work experience.

Advice: apply for a Masters in Finance at Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Boston College, or any other place you can find. You'll probably get in.

Good Luck.

LudvigJ:

Hello,

I'm a junior at NDSU (North Dakota State University) doing a triple major in math, economics, and statistics. I have a 3.98 overall GPA, and close to 4.0 in all of my majors. I am President of the Investing Club, and an Eagle Scout. In 2008, I will graduate with a BS in all of my three majors as well as an MS in Statistics. I also serve as a Research Assistant for two professors.

I also work three hours a day at my parent's Chinese restaurant.

Pretty good huh? Well I've been working really hard for it. But the problem is, I applied online to every Ibank I could think of and didn't get one reply!!!! Not even one!!!

What the hell? Why haven't I gotten any replies? What do I do now?

Everyone who knows me, professors, friends, family, they are all shocked. Kenny Lee didn't get an interview? How come? That's what I want to know to!

Big fish in small pond syndrom. You have a good GPA at North Dakota State. Whoopdeedo. There's nothing special. Not to be mean or anything, but there's a lot of Asian kids at state schools with similar stories.

And applying online probably didn't help. I think most people will tell you that applying online is pretty much useless. If that's what you were counting on to get into a bank, you are either very naive or not very knowledgeable about the industry.

Can I ask why you guys think so lowly of NDSU?

Do you realize that we use the same textbooks used at Columbia, UMichigan, Princeton, etc?

Pretty much all schools use the same textbooks.

Besides, at all schools students learn from the text as opposed to the professor (big lectures).

Get a grip, just because you're some Ivy League hot shot doesn't make you any more qualified then me to work on Wall Street.

I have a 3.98 and I'm a triple major. Beat that Ivy Leaguer!

You may use the same textbooks, but I bet the tests are easier. Also, the kids aren't as smart, which means you are at the top of the curve. If you went to a better school this might not be the case.

for a person without a job now arent you? Dont come to this msg board, ask for advice, and expect solid answers if you only want to insult ppl.

I agree with opticalcharge - networking is definitely key here. Call up firms, briefly describe your credentials, and ask for informational interviews or any open job opportunities. If you busted your ass for that 3.98 GPA, now's the time to start busting your ass in the networking dept.

Good luck.

side note, it doesn't seem to work to just submit things online and then hope for the best as a sophomore but will it work better as a junior given i'm at an ivy? What is the best way to go about it when recruiting comes around next january? Just give a copy of my resume to everyone I know at each bank or is there something extra here that I am naive to?

Look

I'm sorry if I seem mad

I have worked for the last 21 years for this

Not specifically for I-banking, but so I could have a great career

I just feel I've done everything asked of me (Straight A's) and it hasn't gotten me anywhere

there's more to life and recruiting than grades...

I'm guessing you're not Asian :(

make sure you don't have a 3-page CV trying to brag all these achievements. I share my wisdom from my experience at superday.

Don't think you are the best. There's always smarter one out there. Keep low profile man.

it would help a lot to have strong work experience. I know plenty of applicants with 3.7-8 GPAs with solid valuation experience that have beat out 3.9-4.0s.

perfect gpa doesn't mean everything, i hope you don't get too cocky in interviews.

I thought this was a joke...

I think this is a joke.

i'm not even sure if north dakota exists

Don’t post if you’re just going to rag on him, It mars the face of this board.

And to the original poster I would do more then just apply online, show some initiative. Email or call in. And like ermen said “you are just not hungry enough” Seriously think about transferring to a brand name school because as ugly as it is, we are all superficial to some degree.

There is no need to transfer schools. Check some of the ivys career websites. They have good info there. http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/ Check that webpage out. Make sure your resume meets all of their requirements.

My guess is that your resume looks like shit and is not do a good job of selling you.

Also, network, network, network. Thousands of people send there resumes in online. It is basically useless. Find emails and send direct to people.

Good Luck!!

efinancialcareers.com, dice.com

To catch the eyes of resume readers, you need excellent professional experience. Frankly most people don't care much that you are the president of a club, work in a restaurant, or help your professors with research projects. They want to see finance or accounting related professional experience. So get an internship with a local investment firm, apply to big four internship/externships, and do anything that will help out your resume.

And fyi, I go to a target and there are plenty of Asian kids with near 4.0s that can't get into banking. They either have very limited professional experience and can't get the interview to begin with, or they just don't interview well.

LudvigJ

The posters above are correct, the best way is to contact alumni, but maybe look up this prof:

http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/ndsu/jelder/job_opportunities.html

Also, did you ever think of applying for an accounting internship to get experience? Some of my friends work at Big 4 and they mention people from this college. Accounting is also a solid career and it may suit your lifestyle. Banking is a great career, but to some people on this board's surprise, it isn't everything. I know people who chose accounting over banking just because they wanted a different lifestyle.

Another thing is that you need to change your attitude. NDSU cannot compare to IVY's and top state schools both in terms of prestige and academic rigor. Just prepare when the time comes and do your best.

Get out of North Dakota and go for a masters at a top school.

Hi,

"What the hell? Why haven't I gotten any replies? What do I do now?"

There are a multitude of reasons why they don't care.
1. You are from a fourth rate school. Your competition is nearly non-existent; all lazy kids. Try getting a 4.0 at Wharton, Stern, Columbia, etc,etc. I doubt it. I had a buddy that failed out of Stern in his sophomore year. (lower than 2.0) He went to Rugers State U and had a 3.8 GPA there.... 2. You don't have either a finance or an accounting major. Or both, the strongest combination 3. You have no finance experience. Being the master Eagle scout doesn't mean squat. 4. Your resume/coverletter probably have myraid amount of problems. You might have a shot at a second rate boutique, but even boutiques are quite vigorous.

"And fyi, I go to a target and there are plenty of Asian kids with near 4.0s that can't get into banking."

Yeah, many asian kids of the senior year Stern class (cum laude,magna cum laude, etc.) didn't get banking jobs and even second round interviews. It's just that when they interviewed, they screamed..."I'm a typical asian FOBBBBB and dullard" to the interviewer...and "I'm a human calculator."

i agree i definately thought this was a joke post... but on reviewing its somewhat obvious why you didn't get interviews... big fish in a little pond to say the least

Mostly theres no difference in what you can learn in a college and thats mostly up to you ..even if you go to a state school..... what matters is the initiative and showing people you are genuinely interested in it and will work hard for that without coming off as a jerk... I always tell this to people at my school and they rarely do it.... but networking and contacting individuals at banks and going out of your way to show your determined to get into this even by taking an unpaid internship or something is some possibilities going forward

I think people tend to group all non target schools together. There is definitley a difference between a non target with a top 25 undergrad bus ranking and a relatively unknown non target like NDSU.

Like others said, networking seems to be key. Most school have employment data from recent graduates. You could look at that to see if anyone went to an investment bank. If you are not seeing any IBank placement or are not able to contact any alumni who work at Ibanks, I would really consider transfering.

Also, if you haven't, consider applying to MM banks that are in your region, Piper J. comes to mind in the twin cities.

A friend of mine at JPMorgan that went through resume's told me that the resumes are generally separated by target school...and the rest are thrown together in a pile. They get instructions and time limit to, "choose a few from harvard, wharton, stern, etc." and if you time after two hours of resume scanning, a few from outside. Then trash the rest...

They do this because there are so many freakin' resume's coming in everyday into the NYC office that there is no time to physically read them all. Having a 4.0 From community college clown college doesn't mean squat to them, you simply didn't go through a challenging program and truly prove yourself, thus you aren't worth their time.

Look man, Nobody really cares if you're an eagle scout or work in your parents' restaurant. Banks don't give a shit about giving some kid from an underprivileged background but who excelled in what he could a chance. If you went to Wharton or [insert inferior but acceptable undergrad business program] you could get away with applying online. The only way you're going to get a job is if somebody knows who you are, has talked to you, and is going to go to bat for you. And you're not going to get that by applying to HR. Do some research and get a few analysts' and associates' email addresses, particularly at smaller places (you're not working for Morgan or Blackstone, or even Citi or Bear coming from NDSU), and email them.

If you get a Master's in Finance, will you be recruited for full time like the undergrads at that school?

"This is what I don't like about Sternies. They are elitist fucks who think they are the shit. "

That's the way that I-banking recruiters recruit. I didn't chose that sort of method. Live with it. Ask any MD or fellow you know in BB...

"Notice how every one of Sternfox's posts has Stern in it... "

Just telling what I know, people I know, to this kid.

"No need to say NDSU is filled with "all lazy kids." "

Mostly.

"The reason why your friend failed out of stern is because stern people sabotage each other in order to get ahead of their classmates"

A little bitter? No, people don't "sabotage" each other here. Whatever that means....

" You don't need either. You have to be retarded to think a finance or accounting major is better than a double in Math and Econ, not to mention Math + Econ + Stat... and Accounting and Finance isn't "the strongest competition," not nearly as strong as Econ and Math"

Finance/accounting is better than Math/econ for banking. Considering that I-banking interviews often ask accounting and finance technicals... This isn't a quant's job. You don't know what you're talking about...at all.......econ is a weak major in the job market. Math and statistics is a decent major only if combined with finance/accounting.

"Master Eagle Scout means something, but it is obviously not enough to get him the interview"

Not much. I might as well boast, "quarterback for high school varsity football..." ....who gives a rat's ass! While this kiddo is talkin' about his amazing wok flippin' skills, a JPmorgan summer intern is talking about the deals he helped make....

A bitter kid, hahahahahahahah....Let me guess, freshman? Sophomore...wake up, and smell the coffee.

LudvigJ you wrote that you are a junior. I assume therefore you are talkng about no interviews for summer intern positions. Those intern positions were filled months ago how come you are writng now? Anyway the main game is still alive and that is a fulltime position.
That application process starts in the Fall so whats the BEST plan at his time given whats happened already which you can't change anyway. I would like to make a couple of suggestions: Look at the Regional Boutiques form and select say 25 regional boutiques in your section of the country. Call them (This is networking and given no one at your school likes bankers or knows bankers it is your best alternative) and ask the person the name of the person you should address your resume to with respect to a possible summer internship. Even if they say they don't have any say you would like to do it just in case. Get their name too. In your cover letter tell the person how much you would like to have the opportunity to prove yourself at their firm and you are ready to come at any time this summer. One day after they got your letter start calling the most promising and ask to speak to the person. Tell the reception you want to talk to Mr Jones regarding a previous application. Tell the person you are keen able and available any time. But if no opportunity now you will stay in touch and re-apply in the fall. If you get a short-term short- notice summer internship great, put it on you resume and apply to the 25 in the Fall. If you don't get a summer internship you re-contact your network in the Fall and re-apply and expand it. In the meantime read some good books on IB resumes

I know you needed to vent, but now you have done it and its time for action. Don't worry about NYC and other big city BB. You don't have the credentials yet. It is a fact of life maybe one that you feel is unfair?? what ever that means but if you are going to get to where you want to go you are going to have to plan now and do now and be prepared to modify your plan in the future as opportunity arises

There is another great plan menitoned by some of the other writers. If you dont get your FT offer use your great acadmeic credentials to go to a highly respected grad school. Get a Masters in anyone of your majors or some other finance field and keep on with the process of Regional Boutiques and creating and working your network. If you want it the road is there but the route won't be the same as for a kid from Harvard

Best of Luck

Kenny Lee,

Like others have said, I do detect a little 'big fish in a little pond' syndrome. Your GPA is stellar at NDSU, but you're talking about applying to some of the most sought-after finance jobs in the world. Is it better to get a 4.0 at NDSU or get a 3.0 at a top school? The answer is neither in investment banking. Investment banks try to find the guys that can get a 4.0 at the top school or thereabouts.

Now I don't know what your reasons for attending NDSU were; if they were financial totally understandable. But you are definitely better off getting a masters at a better place. You probably have a good shot because a lot of schools like enrollment from all 50 states and not too many people from ND apply.

I have worked for the last 21 years for this Not specifically for I-banking, but so I could have a great career I just feel I've done everything asked of me (Straight A's) and it hasn't gotten me anywhere.

Look kid...there's plenty of other kid's with similar grades if not better and are from top schools. When I first graduated I was faced with the same situation. Top grades, strong finance background, with a Masters in Econ including MBA courses in options and derivatives, with relevant experience, and an FRM certification to boot, and I was coming from a top university. Other graduates with no masters, low grades, no CFA or FRM, and no experience were getting hired at the top I-Banks, or boutique firms and I wasn't. Do I think I deserved to be ignored? Hell No...but the reality is you're only good if someone else recognizes that...stop wallowing in anguish and start networking...it's always hard to find your first full-time job and will take a bit longer than expected...but once you get your 1st job your career will develop in no time. Hang in there!

Look, NYU is a great school and no one is to question that. But, it is a school not above any others...It is a school where kids go to if they cannot get into top state schools (UCLA, Cal, Mich, UVA) or if they cannot get into the IVYs. I am not cutting down NYU at all, but it is NOT better than anyone else. If you study real estate you know three words...location, location location.

Another point...major has nothing to do with getting a job in banking. If you are smart, then you will get a job. Look at all the kids from HYS with no business programs

"Look, NYU is a great school and no one is to question that. But, it is a school not above any other"

NYU Stern and NYU are on totally different levels. The average sat is more than a hundred points higher in stern, and it's much harder to get in. The finance program is rated 2 in undergraduate, that's why so many BB hire here.

Kenny, can you tell us why you want to do banking that badly? Do you know what you are gettin yourself into? there are so many finance related jobs out there and there are many ways you can break into ib. i've had 3 finance-related jobs on my resume before i landed a BB offer. can you tell us about your resume?

Why don't you just take the GRE and get a masters from Princeton's MS in Finance program, or Berkeley's MFE program--then apply to IB? All the best :-)

Go through headhunters if you can. If you have a 3.98 , a triple major, and an interest in finance, someone will hire you, although it probably isn't going to be Goldman. It doesn't matter though, just do 3-4 years doing something worthwhile and then your stellar grades and a good GMAT will get you into a top-tier MBA program, from which you can probably wiggle into the bulge bracket (or wherever, buyside, etc..)

You should've transfered after your 2nd year, but it isn't the end of the world.

According to U S News, it's a third tier school with an 84% acceptance rate. Therein lies your problem.

Except if you look at the proportion of stern kids who get ibd jobs to those who want them, I bet it is probably much, much, lower than any other ivy league school or top target...

Yeah, keep telling yourself that your finance and accounting major is a wow factor! That sure is going to give you a leg up over everyone else...

Seriously, Stern is for ivy league rejects. It's #2 finance school in the country because, besides wharton, no intelligent person wants to pigeon-hole themselves into a finance degree, which is both an easy and boring subject.

Bitter? Not at myself. I'm doing MS as a sophomore this summer... it's just funny to me how cool you think you are, being a stern kid and all. Stern really sucks compared to other target schools and you have to get over that, but I guess you'll eventually find out when you get shafted for interviews

Stern kids are all the same it seems, think that they are in the 2nd best school in the nation for business when they actually don't even break the top 10.

tell me that's not on that new 2400 pt one.

So true. I mean it is a good school. But lets just say if you took it and smacked it in another city like Boston or Chicago, the BB recruiting would probably drop.