Is it really THAT hard to get an interview "from the inside".

I've been in touch with this MD at a BB for a few months now. I did the whole networking/establish long-term relationship thing with him, hoping that it would result in an OCR first-round interview. Check out the exchange of emails.

So, a few weeks before the resume drop, I email him the old:

“I hope all is well. With recruiting season approaching, I wanted to follow-up and ask you how I could best position myself for an interview with your firm.”

Of course, he responded:

"Sure, let me put you in touch with my Business Unit Manager"

OK, makes sense. Guy's an MD, doesn't have time to contact my school's recruiting team directly. Refers me to his "secretary".

The secretary (BUM), having been CC'd by the MD, writes to me:

" The on-campus recruiting process is still ongoing. We'll let you know as soon as we hear anything."

At this point I'm worried--does she not understand what I want? I've worked so damn hard for this! So, I calmly reply:

" I just would like to confirm that I'm on my school's interview list for first round OCR. "

Immediately, she responds:

"I understand. However, the interview list creation is still in process. The recruiting team is working through hundreds of applications. Unfortunately we cannot confirm anything ahead of the recruiting team's notification."

I respond, being VERY explicit:

" I'm asking if you can please contact my school's recruiting team directly and ask if they can add my name to the interview list. I have been in touch with MD for months about this, and he said he would be able to do this. Thank you. "

.. And that is where I'm at now. Is this just a "gatekeeper" problem? Am I doing something wrong? I though this was how it goes: network, then ask for what you want.

 
olafenizer:
advantageplayer:
I though this was how it goes: network, then ask for what you want.
Just because you ask for something doesn't mean they are in any way obligated to give it to you just because you "networked" with them.

This.

I see you've moderated a bit in your replies, but nobody is going to hand out interviews to you. They might put a positive spin on your name with the rec. team, but that's about it. That's granted he doesn't see your email exchange with the BUM.

CNBC sucks "This financial crisis is worse than a divorce. I've lost all my money, but the wife is still here." - Client after getting blown up
 

Exactly. I'm a team captain at a BB. An admin has ZERO control over the pre-select list. Do you know how many people try to 'network' with MDs? A lot. If dozens or even hundreds of resumes are received from a particular school, they are reviewed by the team and the top 12-24 are selected and a short list of alternates is created. You can't ask to be added - your resume is compared to the resumes of others. The only way you're getting on that closed list is if you have a great resume (academics, work, extracurrics) or have some type of special relationship with a sr person (i.e. you are a daughter/son of a major client, etc.).

 
fixedincomesalesguy:
Exactly. I'm a team captain at a BB. An admin has ZERO control over the pre-select list. Do you know how many people try to 'network' with MDs? A lot. If dozens or even hundreds of resumes are received from a particular school, they are reviewed by the team and the top 12-24 are selected and a short list of alternates is created. You can't ask to be added - your resume is compared to the resumes of others. The only way you're getting on that closed list is if you have a great resume (academics, work, extracurrics) or have some type of special relationship with a sr person (i.e. you are a daughter/son of a major client, etc.).

I'd say this is a tad restrictive. When analysts and associates put together the interview list, the amount of effort people put into reaching out to people in the group definitely plays a factor. Though, of course, your resume means a great deal. One thing is for sure: chatting with an MD once or twice does not make you a shoe-in for an interview.

"For all the tribulations in our lives, for all the troubles that remain in the world, the decline of violence is an accomplishment we can savor, and an impetus to cherish the forces of civilization and enlightenment that made it possible."
 

I think you are being way too forward with the business unit manager. FYI, they are not secretaries, they pretty much manage the deal flow and recruiting for a particular group, so I wouldn't really treat them as such. The way to go about this is to update your MD contact - to be honest, you sound a bit privileged acting as if you deserve an interview and it is their obligation to give you one. I think you need to relax, update your contact, and stop harassing the business unit manager.

 

So did the MD 100% say that he wanted you to have an interview/that he was going to get you an interview?

Personally, if that's not the case, I think explicitly saying "give me an interview" to the secretary one way or another might be an aggressive measure.

I've had this same problem too though, networking with people who say they'll help you get a superday, interview, etc and trying to translate that to recruitment. It doesn't help that recruiters are the most ambiguous people ever in there responses.

"Money is a scoreboard where you can rank how you're doing against other people." -Mark Cuban
 

The business unit manager for my line of business is definitely not a secretary. She actually has one. She basically handles all recruiting/time keeping/general office inquiry stuff. Be careful being too forward.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
 

Absolutely agree that you are being way too agreessive with these emails. Business Managers are not secretaries, and getting an interview is not as simple as calling an MD every month or so, then asking for an interview.

I would speak directly to your MD contact and ask him if there is anything that he can do to help. The recruiting process is very difficult and competitive, and most people are busy networking trying to get spots. Unfortunately, a referral from an MD alone isn't always enough to make the cut.

"For all the tribulations in our lives, for all the troubles that remain in the world, the decline of violence is an accomplishment we can savor, and an impetus to cherish the forces of civilization and enlightenment that made it possible."
 

Business Unit Managers handle a lot of the hiring process. You're probably on the verge of pissing this BUM off if you haven't already. Tone it down.

“Success means having the courage, the determination, and the will to become the person you believe you were meant to be”
 

this is too forward.. no one OWES you an interview... you cannot push too far.

I agree with some comments above, business unit managers are ex bankers as well and play an integral part in recruiting, if you piss someone off, they have the right to take you off the interview selection list

Take it as it comes JJ
 

Some serious entitlement/ego issues here. You may just have gotten yourself dinged, the "whole network/establish long-term relationship thing" notwithstanding.

Value Sleuth:
You come off as a huge dick.

Self-awareness is incredibly important. Try to learn something from all the different reactions in this thread.

 

Maybe it's because I'm in consulting, but this is really really aggressive (and somewhat rude in tone) of you to ask, especially after the BUM explained that the recruiting team is still working and they have yet to form an interview list.

My formula for success is rise early, work late and strike oil - JP Getty
 

I think the ideal situation is to have your contact want to put you into the interview pool (as opposed to you asking to be a part of the pool).

Don't feel like you've burned a bridge though. I've made bigger gaffes with alumni of my university, and people tend to be understanding.

"Do not go gentle into that good night"
 

Sounds weird. Most MDs or Associates that i've networked with always directly took my resume. Maybe he doesn't want to help? Who knows.

Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis - when I was dead broke man I couldn't picture this
 

Business Unit Managers are not secretaries... They handle a lot more than just deal flow such as overseeing revenues for the group and salary determinations etc... I would say tone it down a lot more going forward.

Banking.
 

"m asking if you can please contact my school's recruiting team directly and ask if they can add my name to the interview list. I have been in touch with MD for months about this, and he said he would be able to do this. Thank you. "

I don't see where in your correspondence with the MD he told you that he would get you an interview. You asked for help getting prepared for an interview- he never told you that you had one or would get one. Just because you talked to him a lot and established a 'long term' relationship doesn't mean he liked you. Heck, we had kids go to GS recruiting/info sessions beginning Freshmen fall, and many of them didn't get OCR 1st rounds- they established a relationship, but one that was annoying to people involved in recruiting. A referral is helpful, but it does not ever guarantee someone an interview, and for you to act like it does it ridiculous. Now not only do you look stupid, but you were an asshole to the person who works specifically in recruiting- do you really think she's going to do anything to help you out now if there is an opportunity for her to do so? Get referrals and network, but many times this still won't result in an interview.

 

If anything you probably just got dinged after sending the last email. I am 100% confident that the MD likes his business manager more than you and if you offended him/her then you are toast.

Besides, unless you are a close family friend of the MD...."a few months" is NOT by any means long term networking. you are not guaranteed an interview just because you talked to a MD. Anyone can talk to a MD. If you get one, great, kill it. If you dont get one, KEEP NETWORKING WITH THE MD and maybe youll get a shot at FT or a transfer if he actually likes you

 

"Sure, let me put you in touch with my Business Unit Manager"

You misunderstood the MD's intention here. The reason he forwarded your email to the business unit manager is so that you can go bother her instead. He made no promise to you whatsoever. If he wanted to get you on the list, he would have done so himself instead of referring you to someone else.

As others pointed out, the manager is not a secretary and you likely offended her with your rude email. If you want to salvage whatever chance you had, I would recommend you write her an apology ASAP explaining that you were being over-zealous and came across the wrong way and sorry for wasting her time with your demeaning emails.

Too late for second-guessing Too late to go back to sleep.
 
brandon st randy:
"Sure, let me put you in touch with my Business Unit Manager"

You misunderstood the MD's intention here. The reason he forwarded your email to the business unit manager is so that you can go bother her instead. He made no promise to you whatsoever. If he wanted to get you on the list, he would have done so himself instead of referring you to someone else.

As others pointed out, the manager is not a secretary and you likely offended her with your rude email. If you want to salvage whatever chance you had, I would recommend you write her an apology ASAP explaining that you were being over-zealous and came across the wrong way and sorry for wasting her time with your demeaning emails.

Thanks for the input guys. I always know I can get an honest opinion on these boards.

I understand that the BUM is NOT a secretary (quite the opposite, really), that's why I put the word in quotations.

The MD is a family friend, which is why I was so pissed that the BUM was telling me that she wasn't doing anything. Brandon st Randy makes an interesting point--maybe this guy isn't as much of a "family friend" as I thought.

I do agree that I overreacted. All this networking/reading M&I/reading WSO/info sessions with hundreds of kids in suits has really put me in killer mode and I've become quite ruthless. I think that every kid I see wants to go into banking and is my competition. It's strange, 'cause I'm normally not like this.

This whole process has really messed with my mind. Thanks again for your thoughts guys.

Haters gonna hate
 
advantageplayer:
Thanks for the input guys. I always know I can get an honest opinion on these boards.

I understand that the BUM is NOT a secretary (quite the opposite, really), that's why I put the word in quotations.

The MD is a family friend, which is why I was so pissed that the BUM was telling me that she wasn't doing anything. Brandon st Randy makes an interesting point--maybe this guy isn't as much of a "family friend" as I thought.

I do agree that I overreacted. All this networking/reading M&I/reading WSO/info sessions with hundreds of kids in suits has really put me in killer mode and I've become quite ruthless. I think that every kid I see wants to go into banking and is my competition. It's strange, 'cause I'm normally not like this.

This whole process has really messed with my mind. Thanks again for your thoughts guys.

Kudos for self-awareness. I think everyone has let the competitiveness of the process get to them at one point or another. Just make sure you keep things in perspective. It's just an internship, and you have plenty of life left to live, even if your family friend can't set you up at his firm.

"For all the tribulations in our lives, for all the troubles that remain in the world, the decline of violence is an accomplishment we can savor, and an impetus to cherish the forces of civilization and enlightenment that made it possible."
 

lol i think you're out of the process. Not even your family friend can dig you out of this one unless he REALLY likes you.

Not many people would pull a stunt like yours - chances are your email story has spread across the firm already.

FYI I've had MDs referrals that led to nowhere. Remember that hiring decisions at a large firm like a BB are TEAM decisions. If your MD friend thinks you deserve a shot but then 3 analysts/associates say you're a douche - I bet he trusts them more than he trusts you.

My non-target has several hot shot MD alumni but they can't really do much to help their alma mater because for each referral theygives, there are 3 other MDs guys who want to spot filled by an Ivy leage student.

It's a tough process =/ ... The trick is to get several referrals these days.. Sigh...

 

I'd apologize to the BUM as soon as possible.

My group's BUM was a former banker. She definitely was not someone you'd push around. As others have said, the MD probably likes her better than you. He sees her every day, he works with her every day, and her job is help make him look good to his bosses. If she forwards him your "get this done for me" email, you're fucked. Ding

 
triplectz:
I'd apologize to the BUM as soon as possible.

My group's BUM was a former banker. She definitely was not someone you'd push around. As others have said, the MD probably likes her better than you. He sees her every day, he works with her every day, and her job is help make him look good to his bosses. If she forwards him your "get this done for me" email, you're fucked. Ding

This, you're fucked. I'll get pissed off if I were the BUM, and blacklist your name plus share it to all of my BUM friends in my business card holder.

 

In regards to the original post and thread topic, it appears as if it is really THAT hard to get an interview, even "from the inside". I've mentioned on here several times about my recent experience with a IBD MD (who is still working a couple angles for me) and how the recruiting barriers/process' seem to be so stringent that one may not be able to get an interview...even "from the inside". Definitely frustrating, but just keep being persistent and try not to offend anyone hahah.

 

Yup, as everyone else has said, you were way too agressive on this one and probably won't be getting an interview. Its w/e though, it can be a lesson learned for you. The way I go about asking contacts, family, or friends for help with a job is I bring up in conversation that I am interested in Finance, try to have a good conversation with them and show off some of my knowledge, and lastly mention that I'm looking for a position and if they happen to know if there are any opportunities open at x firm to let me know as I'd love to apply. You never really know how much sway people have, or how far they're willing to go for you.

My aunt is an MD at a BB and has worked there for 30+ years. She told me she referred me to their HR department, yet after following up with her as well as HR multiple times, I didn't even get an interview.

On the other hand, a former colleague of my father somehow heard I was trying to get into finance and ended up getting me an interview and eventually an internship at MM PE firm. I barely even knew the guy and only spoke with him briefly on the phone once or twice.

Be nice to everyone, expect nothing, and eventually someone will come through for you.

 
bhollowa:
Yup, as everyone else has said, you were way too agressive on this one and probably won't be getting an interview. Its w/e though, it can be a lesson learned for you. The way I go about asking contacts, family, or friends for help with a job is I bring up in conversation that I am interested in Finance, try to have a good conversation with them and show off some of my knowledge, and lastly mention that I'm looking for a position and if they happen to know if there are any opportunities open at x firm to let me know as I'd love to apply. You never really know how much sway people have, or how far they're willing to go for you.

My aunt is an MD at a BB and has worked there for 30+ years. She told me she referred me to their HR department, yet after following up with her as well as HR multiple times, I didn't even get an interview.

On the other hand, a former colleague of my father somehow heard I was trying to get into finance and ended up getting me an interview and eventually an internship at MM PE firm. I barely even knew the guy and only spoke with him briefly on the phone once or twice.

Be nice to everyone, expect nothing, and eventually someone will come through for you.

There's a lot of truth to this: the BB recruiting process is becoming ever larger and more competitive. You'd be surprised how little an MD's referral can mean in the recruiting process (unless you're related to a significant client).

I think there is a significant misconception that a BB MD can put your resume into the referral process and you're a lock to get an interview. Remember that every BB has more MDs than there are internship spots. It's obviously not that simple, especially at larger firms with HR departments that handle the recruiting process.

"For all the tribulations in our lives, for all the troubles that remain in the world, the decline of violence is an accomplishment we can savor, and an impetus to cherish the forces of civilization and enlightenment that made it possible."
HowardRoark:
@Northsider - is that right? Are there really more MDs than internship spots?

Firm-wide at a BB? Far more. SA classes are ~90-100, which basically corresponds with the number of MDs in U.S. IBD alone at a BB. Not to mention all of the MDs in S&T, CorpFin, PWM, Senior Management, IM, etc. that refer candidates for the IB process.

Put it this way: there are far more senior-level referral candidates than there are SA slots in IB. And there are still a good amount of candidates that get offers without senior-level referrals. That should give some insight on the conversion rate.

"For all the tribulations in our lives, for all the troubles that remain in the world, the decline of violence is an accomplishment we can savor, and an impetus to cherish the forces of civilization and enlightenment that made it possible."
 

Bro... AdvantagePlayer... Im gonna let you in... on a little secret... sure way to close the deal... to get the interview... now this may sound a bit crazy, but go with me here... find out who this business manager is... follow them after work to a bar... buy them a drink... laugh it up and then go make her teeth rattle... then when she mentions she works at this firm you're applying to, be like "Oh, you're THAT (name here). We've been emailing! How about you just push my resume forward... maybe lose a couple of the other competitive ones..." and profit.... easy as 1,2,3.

“...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” - Schopenhauer
 

I'd echo the prior posts here - definitely comes across as entitled and rude. Unfortunately you never get a second chance to make a first impression but there are lots of fish in the sea. I'm out of cliches but I'm sure you get it.

As Jennifer Aniston said, there are no mistakes in life, only lessons. Learn yours from this.

 
Plato:
I'd echo the prior posts here - definitely comes across as entitled and rude. Unfortunately you never get a second chance to make a first impression but there are lots of fish in the sea. I'm out of cliches but I'm sure you get it.

As Jennifer Aniston said, there are no mistakes in life, only lessons. Learn yours from this.

I never thought I'd see the day where Plato is quoting the philosophies of Jennifer Aniston.
 
SirTradesaLot:
Plato:
I'd echo the prior posts here - definitely comes across as entitled and rude. Unfortunately you never get a second chance to make a first impression but there are lots of fish in the sea. I'm out of cliches but I'm sure you get it.

As Jennifer Aniston said, there are no mistakes in life, only lessons. Learn yours from this.

I never thought I'd see the day where Plato is quoting the philosophies of Jennifer Aniston.
You may or may not be surprised to learn she got that quote from Mark Twain.
 

Why did every post on this threat just get MS thrown at it?

"For all the tribulations in our lives, for all the troubles that remain in the world, the decline of violence is an accomplishment we can savor, and an impetus to cherish the forces of civilization and enlightenment that made it possible."
 

Haha, because it is shitty!

When a plumber from Hoboken tells you he has a good feeling about a reverse iron condor spread on the Japanese Yen, you really have no choice. If you don’t do it to him, somebody else surely will. -Eddie B.
 

this is why it's important to actually develop more relationships with analysts/associates than senior level guys. The more junior level staff are actually the ones who are able to bat for you in the roundtable discussions (Although some MDs or senior guys will sit in as well), but again there are more associates/analysts sitting in those discussions than MDs, Directors etc. The more senior you are, the less you are actually involved in giving out interviews (Assuming the MD contact is VERY aggressive/insisting on getting you a spot)....Or that's how I always thought of it.

Just my two cents. Been through all that OCR madness...so I understand where you're coming from. Gluck!

 

Sorry guys, I meant to award a couple users with silver bananas. Not sure what happened (I've never awarded/thrown shit before).. It shows some gold coins and "Credits" under everyone's avatar.. what's up with this?

Anyways, to continue with this story:

So I get rejected by OCR for this BB. I'm thinking " OK, I totally fu**ed that one up (after hearing what you guys were all saying about being too aggressive). So for the next few days, there I am, just simmering in my own shitty juices about how I was such a dick and messed up and all that.

Then, completely out of the blue, and about 15 hours before the BB is coming to campus to interview, I get a call on my iphone while I'm doing some normal late-night homework--I look at my Iphone "New York, NY" it says on the caller ID.

"Hello"

" Good evening, this is campus recruiting with BB, and we'd like to schedule you for an interview tomorrow. Are you available from 3-3:30"

" Hold on, let me check my schedule" ( couldn't resist...hahahah)....Yep, that works perfectly. Thank you for letting me know."

"Great, we forward to seeing you then. Good night." Hangs up

At first I don't really know what's happening, then a fat rush of dopamine hits my brain so hard and I scream.

Anyways, just had the interview and it went well I think (no technicals whatsoever).

I'll keep you guys posted...

Haters gonna hate
 
advantageplayer:
Sorry guys, I meant to award a couple users with silver bananas. Not sure what happened (I've never awarded/thrown shit before).. It shows some gold coins and "Credits" under everyone's avatar.. what's up with this?

Anyways, to continue with this story:

So I get rejected by OCR for this BB. I'm thinking " OK, I totally fu**ed that one up (after hearing what you guys were all saying about being too aggressive). So for the next few days, there I am, just simmering in my own shitty juices about how I was such a dick and messed up and all that.

Then, completely out of the blue, and about 15 hours before the BB is coming to campus to interview, I get a call on my iphone while I'm doing some normal late-night homework--I look at my Iphone "New York, NY" it says on the caller ID.

"Hello"

" Good evening, this is campus recruiting with BB, and we'd like to schedule you for an interview tomorrow. Are you available from 3-3:30"

" Hold on, let me check my schedule" ( couldn't resist...hahahah)....Yep, that works perfectly. Thank you for letting me know."

"Great, we forward to seeing you then. Good night." Hangs up

At first I don't really know what's happening, then a fat rush of dopamine hits my brain so hard and I scream.

Anyways, just had the interview and it went well I think (no technicals whatsoever).

I'll keep you guys posted...

Congratulations, man, that's awesome. Actually had the same thing happen to me years ago except OCR fucked up and sent me an e-mail at the last minute inviting me for an interview.

Anyway, sounds like you learned a valuable lesson. Best of luck with the rest of OCR.

P.S. Might be a good idea to give SBs to the guys you accidentally threw MS on, if you have any credits left.

 

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"For all the tribulations in our lives, for all the troubles that remain in the world, the decline of violence is an accomplishment we can savor, and an impetus to cherish the forces of civilization and enlightenment that made it possible."
 

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Too late for second-guessing Too late to go back to sleep.
 

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Et inventore nihil dicta ut. Beatae voluptas quis repudiandae alias consequatur aut. Et cumque porro consequatur. Et eaque voluptatem tempore asperiores cumque eveniet aut. Consequuntur iusto eos ducimus consequatur consequuntur consequatur pariatur. Numquam vitae quo enim ducimus.

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success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”