Mid-Level Burnout
I'm not sure if it's the general COVID work reality, specific group dynamics, or all of the above, but I am feeling completely burnt out. At this point, I feel like I'd be willing to take a 50%+ pay-cut to get some sense of control back in my life. Have any other mid-level (VP-ish) buy-side professionals decided to completely mix it up and move to a gig that is much more lifestyle friendly? Would love to hear what those of you that have made the switch have decided to do instead.
Only an associate, but also can empathize with the burnout. Out of curiosity, if you were to leave how screwed would you be for your carry? My biggest concern now is getting to be a mid-level PE employee and getting stuck due to carry vesting
Our carry dynamics are a bit unique - it's deal-by-deal (I'm not in the PE side of the house), so I wouldn't be giving up any life-changing amount of value that's already accrued. That being said, there's always ways to talk yourself into the golden handcuffs; i.e. I'm giving up $xxx,xxx of accrued bonus, I'm giving up $xxx,xxx of co-invests, etc. At the end of the day, I have plenty of savings and enough safety nets in place that I could dick around for a few years doing nothing and be "fine". An incremental $100k, $200k, $300k... but having to stick around 1, 2, 3 more years isn't going to provide me with any more incremental happiness than doing something I enjoy a lot more right NOW. At least that's the way that I'm approaching it; if there was a 7-figure pay-day 18 months away, probably a different calculus.
About 6 months ago I left a fairly institutional REPE firm after being there for 5+ years. I was tired of the hours, facetime, politics, analysis paralysis, etc.
Had I stayed one more year, my carried interest in our largest fund would have fully vested. Maybe it was the pandemic and working from home that made me irrational, but I just had to leave. I left for a smaller GP/Operator firm in a location I love that is far less volume driven. Base and bonus are the same, I now get carried interest on deal level transactions (not fund level), I have zero state and city income taxes, the weather and people here are beautiful, I am not wasting my time on wild goose chase pursuits or useless investment committee follow-up meetings, and I have a much more desirable work-life-balance. Really the only thing I sacrificed is prestige: I no longer have my face on a slick/modern website and - outside of my market - my new company is not well-known. But frankly i don't give a fuck :)
Lateraling but down-sizing is definitely the most logical move, and great to hear that's working out well for you. Unfortunately less of an opportunity set in my geography for a similar transition, so trying to see if I can swing a "yeah I've been doing X for the last 10+years, but I promise I'll be good at Y" approach. Maybe I'll just buy a laundromat or something
What stops you from literally just parking your money in index funds, and then pursuing something you are passionate about in your free-time?
It sounds like you moved from an institutional REPE firm in a HCOL market, went to a lower cost of living market in Texas or Florida to work for a GP / Operator, and STILL maintained your base, bonus, and carry...
This is unbelievably lucky. Most people moving from REPE to GP are looking at a base or bonus paycut with the hopes of making up for the difference with a better lifestyle or carry.
Most people moving from HCOL living market to Texas / Miami are looking at a pay cut because the cities are cheaper and companies know they can pay you less given the cost of living adjustment + lack of local income taxes.
The fact that you bucked the trend on both of those is awesome, hats off to you
I'm surprised by this. I have a handful of colleagues that did the same and they never sacrificed comp. Again, the only sacrifice was any vested comp or interest in the funds/firm they were leaving.
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I would say it depends on the type of person you are. I’m in the HF space and considered making a move for better work life balance and decided against it (while a close friend of mine made a very similar move). To me, it was more about not being happy with some of my team and position I was in, but I realized that I really do enjoy a lot of the work and would spend a lot of my day thinking about the work no matter where I was. So rather than trying to dial down the hours or stress I mostly worked to get on a team with better fit.
Where I’ve seen many people go who enjoy the industry and problems but want more balance is family offices, endowments, pensions, etc. Places where the culture is less intense and generally much more reasonable hours. That being said it isn’t guaranteed and some of these places have other issues (large groups, lots of overhead, etc).
Yeah the FO / endowment / etc. type role is definitely something that came front of mind when thinking through this; now to just figure out how to network into those types of positions
CFA society events/CFA in general could be a good network to tap. plenty in this space hold the designation to a high regard, especially in the PWM space.
I was going to suggest this. These are incredibly hard roles to get. I can tell you that because I am in one and it is a small small universe. And like other parts of finance, there is an incredible amount of ignorance and ineptitude. But the work life balance is amazing. I will say though that some endowments and definitely the SWFs (and FOFs) are looking for people with direct deal experience to help them out and that may be a start.
I will warn you that it is not very commercial and can be slow and there will be a lot of times when you think "are these people serious?" Believe me, I feel it every day in my seat as a washed up ex-HF PM... The understanding (and desire to understand) risk in many of these seats is exactly zero...
PM if you want to talk more about LP world. I know I sound negative here but I want to give fair warning. There is a lot that's great about this world but it has its drawbacks too...
My friend was working at a HF making 7 figures and hated his manager so much that he absolutely had to leave. The PM was making billions, but he had to get out.
How much do you have saved?
"At the end of the day, I have plenty of savings and enough safety nets in place that I could dick around for a few years doing nothing and be "fine""
I'm looking for a number not words.
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might be stating the obvious here, but have a browse over some peoples LinkedIns. especially PE people in Europe. a significant % of them go off and do random things, some examples ive seen - guy started a shoe company, another guy start a boutique hotel in Italy (I had a look at their website yesterday, very very nice, but obviously they're getting crushed due to the pandemic), others have went on to create apps that I dont fully understand, to solve very esoteric problems. but do let us know what you're thinking of doing.
Referring to Brunt Workwear by chance when you mention the shoe company?
What are common exits for mid-level managers in buy-side? I'd have to imagine c-suite or senior management for port-co's is a logical move.
Been having similar thoughts myself (sr. associate). It's not so much the Mon-Thur grind, it's the never ending weekend fire drills and paranoia that at any point of the day/week, some partner is going to lob a ridiculous request and expect an immediate response. While carry sounds nice, it's a long road to realizing it.
I've spent the past two months recruiting for smaller firms with better culture/WLB but finding those seats is hard. Currently looking a pretty interesting gig running M&A for a PE-backed portco but those roles can be just as demanding if the PE firm is run by assholes.
Have a couple buddies that joined Series B start ups and have taken off like rocket ships. Likely to cash out with close to 7 figures in options after working 40 hr weeks for a few years.
Sr Assoc in REPE here. Been at my new company <1 year and am fully burned out. Like falling asleep while standing up, making mistakes at work kind of burnout. Hate to think about leaving so soon, because this firm pays well and people seem to stay for at least 5 years. But I can’t imagine doing 70-80hr weeks indefinitely—I’m not 22 anymore.
Going to start networking soon, inside and outside of CRE. My friend in tech makes 6 figures but sometimes works <40hrs. Need to find something that will pay well but not kill me.
Can you ask them what they do, and how difficult it is to get there
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