Comments (161)

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  • Intern in IB - Ind
May 5, 2020

Jefferies Houston

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May 5, 2020

Why is this funny? Feeling stupid rn lol

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  • Intern in IB - Gen
May 5, 2020

The ultimate sweatshop

  • VP in PE - LBOs
May 5, 2020

Been mostly covered up (obv a bad look) but this office is infamous for an analyst snapping and literally murdering a VP by slitting his throat.

    • 15
May 5, 2020

guys the group is dying, oil and gas in Houston was hurting since last year pre all these oil issues. google it

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May 5, 2020

I remember when I was recruiting, one of the associates told me he chose Jefferies for dealflow over culture.
He said with a smirk that it didn't matter to him if he doesn't like his co-workers and that friction exists anywhere you go.
Huge red flag for me that signaled toxic work culture.

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May 5, 2020

I bet I know his name

May 6, 2020

which city is this

May 6, 2020

Big yikes, especially when a lot of other Houston banking cultures are pretty tight knit.

  • Intern in IB-M&A
May 6, 2020

Haha. I also remember at one of their info sessions someone asked an MD why he chose banking as a career and he was like "I'm gonna be honest with y'all, I like the money"

May 7, 2020

Take it easy on the guy he is getting destroyed and trying to rationalize his decision to himself

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Restr
May 8, 2020

Fairly sure I interviewed w/ this dude

    • 1
May 6, 2020

Used to work JEF houston.

Name another place where first year analysts made close to half $1mm and associates $1mm.... that's all you really need to know. Ya those people worked for that money and ya it was not a jolly good time, but I've never heard of anyone making that dough at a bank.

Those are real numbers. JEF used to have an edge (2010-2015) when it had the best / only good technical O&G team and relationships with every PE sponsor, sold every private Co in Permian. JEF really did control that market and still largely does even though its dead. Paid its employees very well until very recently. Lot has changed there but still exceptionally smart people and culture of working hard and producing the best materials will stick.

The current problem in O&G largely created by JEF to begin with because JEF sold all the assets with juiced engineering parameters and that became industry trend until it was time to go cash flow positive and everyone's cost basis was too high.

Industry was toast before corona virus and now it's clear the emperor has no clothes.

But for close to a decade it was really like that. Part of me misses it.

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  • Intern in IB - Ind
May 6, 2020

Could you please send me a pm?

Most Helpful
May 6, 2020

Ask here this is website for sharing

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May 7, 2020

I don't think you are a managing director.

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
May 9, 2020

Work in non-Energy IB, but am pretty interested in the industry dynamics (well was interested until this whole mess started). Can you explain "The current problem in O&G largely created by JEF to begin with because JEF sold all the assets with juiced engineering parameters and that became industry trend until it was time to go cash flow positive and everyone's cost basis was too high."?

May 11, 2020

I don't buy the comp numbers, they're too far above market. There is no rational incentivefor JEF to offer analysts half a million for first year - you're not getting an extra quarter of a mil worth of PPT and Excel skill. Junior employees don't have a multidimensional-enough value proposition to command that kind of comp. Senior folks maybe, but banks aren't paying high salaries out of the goodness of their hearts. They're paying X because it's the minimum required to get top bucket talent, and that figure is less than half of what you're citing for a first year. They might throw a few extra ten thousand on street comp just to make a point about being the highest comp, but not a couple hundred thousand.

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May 15, 2020

I read this in a Texas accent and WOW

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  • Analyst 1 in CorpFin
May 5, 2020

Interviwed with a couple of restructuring shops and I'd say it seemed like the elbows were pretty sharp at those places.

  • Intern in IB-M&A
May 5, 2020

i think that's the nature of restructuring in general. way less bs.

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  • Intern in IB - Restr
May 5, 2020

This. Especially at the senior level RX can get intense. First of all, clients are a lot less happy. No company wants to be working with you. As opposed to M&A where the deal ends with a win, RX ends with almost every party losing something and it's a zero sum game. Theres also the potential for liability. Sr people can get deposed to testify about valuations or liquidation numbers etc and you have to be able to justify everything. Even at the junior level people seem to fall in one of two buckets - either more nerdy or cutthroat

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May 5, 2020

Not exactly cuthroat, but MS London broadly overworks their analysts compared to other firms.

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  • Intern in IB - Gen
May 6, 2020

Any insight on groups at MS London on which has Cut throat and Sweatshop culture?

May 6, 2020

In London, Media & Comms and Healthcare are both very tough

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
May 5, 2020

I've heard BofA FIG is pretty tough

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  • VP in PE - LBOs
May 5, 2020

I hear MS Menlo is a little snake-y

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
May 6, 2020

You can see em slithering all the way from Page Mill Rd

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May 6, 2020

I don't know if this is a running meme or reference here that I'm missing, but it's fucking true.

"Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do"

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May 5, 2020

JPM FIG - I heard there's tons of pitching, long hours, and no deals get done. Can be a frustrating experience for someone trying to work on live deals.

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  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
May 5, 2020

Lmao what, my friend is in FIG there, yes they get worked but they're one of the top FIG groups in the street (aside from GS)

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May 6, 2020

I got this from an associate that worked there and then switched into another team at JPM. Doubt she had any reason to lie to me.

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  • Associate 2 in PE - LBOs
May 12, 2020

Worked there. Was brutal and the people were horrific to each other, even at the analyst level...culture starts at the top.

May 5, 2020

BMO metals and mining.

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  • Prospect in Other
May 6, 2020

heard some wild stories from this group man

  • Intern in IB-M&A
May 6, 2020

pray tell

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May 6, 2020

thinking about it, idk if I've ever heard anyone praise BMO's culture

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  • Associate 3 in IB - Gen
May 6, 2020

Yup, and now take that disdain, stratify it into different groups and M&M will be at the very bottom of a bad group.

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
May 7, 2020

Agreed, M&M is a sweatshop with toxic co-workers. However, it does provide a good deal experience

May 8, 2020

Worked in that group about five years ago. Terribly demoralizing and toxic culture. There was this one Analyst that would leave sticky notes with rape threats in the desks for new joiners.

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
May 10, 2020

LOL WTF!

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May 5, 2020

Moelis Houston

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May 5, 2020

Analysts get worked hard but the culture is actually really good. Great people across the board

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  • VP in PropTrad
May 6, 2020

what do you think about the gaming and hotels group at moelis?

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
May 6, 2020

Really liked the analysts that I've spoken to there - seem very willing to help out

May 7, 2020

Moelis Houston is not Moelis NY; had nothing but pleasant interactions with the Houston Moelis folks; solid culture. Smart group but not pompous and pretentious.

On the other hand, my interations with people at Citi, WF, TPH, Scotia, GH, Gugg, GS...not so pleasant.

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
May 7, 2020

Agreed with this. I know an analyst at Moelis Houston - one of the top kids from my school and down to earth too. Have only heard good things about the group as a whole.

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May 7, 2020

Folks at Moelis are great but they get absolutely destroyed. On par with Jefferies. I had very positive interactions with TPH Gugg WF Scotia and most every bank in Houston. Certain banks can be hit or miss.

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  • Prospect in IB-M&A
May 7, 2020

How was the interactions with people at Citi and Scotia?

May 5, 2020

Every group at Moelis except HR.

Edit: correction, HR cuts throats too.

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  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
May 6, 2020

Goldman TMT NY is an absolute a sweatshop. A lot of the GS NY groups are pretty cool, but TMT is def not the place you go for good culture lol. I don't think that's true for SF, have heard it's a lot better over there in that sense

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Gen
May 6, 2020

Second this, it's got incredible reputation on this site but my buddy (who is one of the most hardcore people I know) had to exit early due to personal health reasons

  • Intern in IB - Ind
May 6, 2020
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  • Prospect in Other
May 7, 2020

yeah, heard the hours out there are ridiculous

  • Prospect in Other
May 7, 2020

yeah, heard the hours out there are ridiculous

  • Associate 1 in PE - LBOs
May 10, 2020

There is a lot of lip service in the group (particularly NY, but think its a "goal" across both offices) about improving culture and junior work life balance, but haven't seen it fully implemented. Majority of the MDs and VPs don't really care at the end of the day as they know the analysts are going to leave at the end of two years (if not sooner). Associates in the group probably get the worst of it, since they're dealing with jaded analysts (who at least are getting great exits) and then get a lot of VP bitch work pushed down to them by them since every VP is gunning to make MD in the group and only wants to focus on client facing work. They obviously do well, but its pretty crazy that they sustain it, given how much turnover there is

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  • Intern in Other
May 6, 2020

deleted cause you never want to call out sweatshops. Always hurt people feels.

    • 5
May 6, 2020

working for Karen in compliance

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May 6, 2020

haha. I had to look it up to learn what Karen means

For those who were as clueless as me:

Karen: a white middle-aged woman, typically American, who displays aggressive behavior when she is obstructed from getting her way; such women are often depicted as demanding to "speak to the manager" and having a variation of the bob cut

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  • Intern in IB - Gen
May 6, 2020

They hire more than 2 interns and they don't overhire they expect to retain you.

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
May 6, 2020

Gotcha my bad will erase my comment I guess lol. What I wrote is what I read throughout that thread, up to the time I last checked it.

May 6, 2020

Any comments on the most cut-throat S&T desks?

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May 6, 2020

Have heard PWP Chicago is incredibly sweaty. My friend interned there and said it was 90-95 hours a week, both weekend days consistently.

  • Intern in IB - Ind
May 6, 2020

heard GS Natural Resourses and Industrials in NY is pretty cutthroat, second hand info so maybe someone else can corroborate

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  • Associate 1 in IB - Gen
May 6, 2020

Have friends in GS Industrials and colleagues who used to work for them too. Can confirm that it gets brutal. Junior people (VP and down) sound like half of them are cool and are in the trenches with you while the other half of people I hear about will throw people under the bus. Outside of that, it's super sweaty, worst hours of my friend group (between CS/Barclays/JPM/EVR/Moelis/PJT)

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  • Associate 1 in PE - LBOs
May 10, 2020

GS NR doesn't seem cutthroat necessarily, but the culture is very stiff / formal. They were the only group to not implement a casual Friday in NY before the broader shift in dress code for the firm. It is probably in the bottom bucket of industry teams from a fee / league table perspective (NR isn't really GS' forte), which probably drives part of the issue

GS IND is brutal for junior people - MD and VP level are fully aware of how bad the situation is, but no one cares enough to try and do anything. The junior team ends up bonding pretty well and generally is a good group of people, but always get crushed. Exits can be good (recent classes have done particularly well), but seem inconsistent

    • 1
May 10, 2020

Can you pm me?

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  • Prospect in IB - Gen
May 12, 2020

Know anything about GS Healthcare?

  • VP in PE - LBOs
May 6, 2020

GS Houston was soul crushing a few years ago. Not sure if things have changed.

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May 6, 2020

a lot of this thread seems to think being a sweatshop = cutthroat. Probably a correlation but not the same thing.

To that end, always thought of jefferies as being generally agressive both internally and externally. Certain BMO teams sound supremely toxic, as in is largely internal. And, given the issues with DB nobody gives a shit about what happens to their coworkers as long as they can get paid and go home. Sure all the boutiques are far more interesting though.

Also don't think banks are even remotely as hostile post 2008. Much easier to be an asshole when you can't be reported to HR.

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May 6, 2020

How much power does HR have to fire MD/ED (especially if they are rainmakers)?

Array

May 6, 2020

Would say it depends on the degree of regulatory scrutiny the shop is under: public, more employees, more deposits, and more influence on the US economy = more power for HR. This could also be interpreted as what % of the business is IB vs balance sheet but the two are somewhat correlated given that balance sheet business is more regulated by nature.

I'm not the best guy to ask, because I've only worked at one large very regulated place. However, the second HR caught one confirmed report of harrasment a MD/ED was asked to leave next day. So, I can say they have a ton of power at near the top of the scale of regulation.

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  • Intern in IB - Gen
May 6, 2020

I keep hearing that Jefferies culture is super fratty, is that what leads people to say its cutthroat? Because in terms of pure sweatiness I have heard far worse about EBs

  • Intern in IB - Gen
May 6, 2020

NY Jefferies culture is great especially among juniors and they don't overhire interns so you can gel with your intern class. Houston office is horrid though although first years clear over 200k - not sure if that's gonna remain during all this.

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  • Prospect in 
May 6, 2020

Barclays Industrials
GS TMT
Citi M&T
Moelis all groups

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  • Intern in S&T - FI
May 6, 2020

What about CS? Heard that FinSpons, LevFin, M&A are far from a good chill, but curious to hear from others how it compares to the rest of the street

  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
May 6, 2020

CS sponsors and levfin & restructuring are known for having great cultures. Sponsors hours are amazing relative to other banking groups and they take no face-time very seriously. Heard it can be kinda douchey sometimes lol

LevFin & restructuring also pushes no face-time but it's harder to limit hours because the group is run leaner than sponsors. Friend says the group is all very tight and humble (even seniors).

Have heard m&a culture at CS is not great. Comes down from senior management who take themselves too seriously and don't care about juniors

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May 6, 2020

TOBIN AND CO

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May 6, 2020

TOBIN AND CO

May 6, 2020

Justine Tobin will SIT on your ERECT COCK for a signed ENGAGEMENT LETTER

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
May 7, 2020

lmaooooooooooooo

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Gen
May 7, 2020

Hahahahahahahahaha

  • Incoming Analyst in IB-M&A
May 6, 2020

Bad hours =/= cutthroat.

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May 6, 2020

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My Linkedin

May 6, 2020

Heard Nomura Consumer Retail is rough. Sitting around the office 90+ hours a week and zero deals

May 6, 2020
THEBLUECHEESE:

Heard Nomura Consumer Retail is rough. Sitting around the office 90+ hours a week and zero deals

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  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
May 6, 2020

Lots of hours doesn't mean a group is cutthroat, just that it's a sweatshop. I personally haven't seen real cutthroatness at the junior level--the camaraderie at the junior level in IB is real. People get cutthroat when there's not enough money to go around--really comes into play at VP level and higher.

Have seen this in my own group (large BB cap markets group) which is ridiculously top heavy. MDs hide pitches from each other, newly promoted or lateral VPs/EDs get pushed out of deals/coverage teams or are forced to work on low revenue deals, etc. There's very little grooming of the next generation because they are seen as competition--there's a high chance that either them or the MD leaves for another firm, so why would the MD let the VP build a client relationship and take away his value add? Meanwhile there's always the lurking feeling that people are about to get fired--the salary as a % of revenue just doesn't make sense.

All of this creates a pretty toxic culture and bad hours (senior bankers are pitching for everything under the sun), but those are just side effects of the cutthroatness.

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May 7, 2020

That sounds like fun.

Interesting reading this stuff. Comparatively, the partnership at an MBB firm I'm familiar with has highly structured revenue credit sharing - so you're incentivized to develop new partners and share expertise / client leads with other partners because you get a meaningful cut of the pie. Makes it harder to make big bucks and you lose some very high performing eat-what-you-kill types who believe they're worth more, but there's a fraction of the fun stuff you have above.

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  • VP in PE - LBOs
May 8, 2020

There's a similar dichotomy with law firms too which I find pretty interesting. Some of the old line white shoe firms (your Cravaths and Davis Polks) pay partners lockstep by seniority so you're encouraged to put the success of the firm ahead of yourself while some of the newer places (K&E is the post child of this) will massively reward rainmakers to the detriment of culture. K&E has blown up in recent years but it'll be interesting to see how they do long term. I'm sure some of the junior partners there are miserable compared to their lockstep counterparts.

    • 1
May 6, 2020

Slitherin

May 7, 2020

GS TMT - The snakiest motherfuckers I've ever met

MS Menlo - On par with the above. Definition of smooth talkers who are backstabby

BAML HC - Pull your pants down and pitch

Moelis HC - Pull your pants down and make CIMs

PWP (Chicago) - Kind of funny there's a post that mentions these guys. The entire Chicago
banking scene knows this group

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  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
May 7, 2020

can you please elaborate on PWP chicago?

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May 8, 2020

.

  • Business School in IB - Gen
May 7, 2020

How's GS FIG? A few posts here mention GS TMT as cut-throat, but how is the FIG team, culture-wise?

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
May 7, 2020

GOLDMAN SACHS LONDON

TMT
FIG

May 10, 2020

Heard from a friend that banks like DBO and FT Partners are pretty relaxed in terms of competition and not really cutthroat at all. People work hard there obviously but people are still pretty chill as in they won't stab your back. That's pretty nice to hear

I have left this site peacefully. The >1.5x MS / SB ratio is interesting. Once my computer updates and removes me from Incognito, I will be washed away like all humans eventually. I don't know when that will happen.

May 10, 2020
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May 12, 2020
Comment

I have left this site peacefully. The >1.5x MS / SB ratio is interesting. Once my computer updates and removes me from Incognito, I will be washed away like all humans eventually. I don't know when that will happen.

May 19, 2020
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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
May 30, 2020