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Notorious Investment Banking Groups and War Stories

DealTeamSix's picture
Rank: Orangutan | banana points 343

Monkeys,

What are some of the most notorious "Groups" on the street? This can include massive jerks, (overly 100+ regularly) abusive workloads, or just old school street mentalities. For example, I've heard JPM HC is one of the hardest worked Groups on the street.

With that being said, feel free to comment a "through the vine" second hand or first hand war story to back up the claim.

Furthermore, if it comes to mind, it would also be cool to hear of some of the better Groups that universally have awesome cultures - or excellent exits opps.

I noticed there hasn't been a broad post like this anytime recently, and felt it would help gear up people for the summer, whether starting FT roles or internships. At the very least, maybe some stories would give some people a chuckle.

Looking forward to your responses!

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Comments (217)

May 13, 2017

I've heard Lazard is straight up abusive.

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May 15, 2017

Same here. I've heard second degree stories of new a analyst getting swatted by an associate with rolled up newspapers while being called an inferior maggot. And fist fights in the break room. No idea if there's any truth here though.

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May 16, 2017

Wow. Can this shit be verified by a legit source? Or other 2nd degree stories?

Even if the latter, then must be legit.

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May 15, 2017

Can't help you there, maybe someone else here has better intel. In case this is BS, I can at least deliver one verifiable story: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/wall-street...

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May 19, 2017

Vanity fair definitely has the inside track on the veracity of IB gossip.

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May 18, 2017

unfounded claim I suspect

May 15, 2017

Very possibly. One of my colleague's good friends was working there, and told him all of this (he was the analyst getting swatted). I trust my colleague, but his friend easily could've been fucking with him.

May 18, 2017

I guess it varies across locations and groups, but what I've heard from people from various offices around Europe is completely the opposite

May 15, 2017

Makes sense. I would imagine that European and US office culture could vary quite substantially in any company, finance or otherwise.

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May 21, 2017

It would be different. European business culture is very formal compared to most American offices.

May 19, 2017

I actually summered at a place that had a former Lazard analyst working as an assoc. The former Lazard analyst was brutal...and would regularly "punish" SAs if it seemed like they were getting too comfortable.

One of her punishments was kind of a market BD thing: she asked the SA to compile a list of 1000 boutique companies in the bank's focus-industry, which were not already in the bank's prospective clients list, their CEOs, the CEOs' contact information, by the next morning at 9AM. It was 4:30PM when she assigned this task.

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May 15, 2017

Jesus. That's just sadistic...

May 21, 2017

That is so rough, even ball parking at ~1 minute per company, she would be hard pressed to get that done by 9am.

'I'm jacked... JACKED TO THE TITS!!'

May 19, 2017

I'm pretty sure she knew it was impossible... The worst part was the SA left around 1AM, got back in at 6AM and had about 100 contacts by the time the assoc. got back in... I heard the assoc. basically tell the SA that she was disappointed he wasn't wearing the same outfit he was wearing the night before, meaning that he clearly didn't stay over night. At the end of the day, the assoc. had gotten permission to fire the SA....

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May 21, 2017

I bet you he is fun at party's.

'I'm jacked... JACKED TO THE TITS!!'

May 25, 2017

What the fuck

May 19, 2017

This is real life. The lesson here is: be wary of working for anyone who openly talks about the insane hazing/horrible treatment they received as analyst/assoc. I'd wager that they're more likely to abuse their inferiors than the average banker.

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May 25, 2017
CheersGordon:

This is real life. The lesson here is: be wary of working for anyone who openly talks about the insane hazing/horrible treatment they received as analyst/assoc. I'd wager that they're more likely to abuse their inferiors than the average banker.

This also applies to coaches. Some of the most sadistic (and usually worst) athletic coaches I ever encountered were the dudes who always talked about how hard it was "back in my day." They generally glorify unnecessary hazing, yelling, etc, and they always seem to get off on trying to make their athletes's lives hell--usually to the detriment of the players and the team itself. A lot of these coaches were lousy players back when they played and need to assert themselves via hazing or intentionally being an asshole. Pathetic. Sure, good coaches know how to push and motivate their players. But there is an art to that, and good coaches know how to do it. Being a dick just because you remember your coaches being dicks is plain retarded and ineffective.

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May 15, 2017

It's a small sample size, but all of the Bear Stearns alumni my friends have worked for have been brutal. Not just slave drivers, but verbally abusive as well.

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Jan 18, 2018

Why leave?

May 13, 2017

Just to name a few common ones; Citi fixed income, Morgan Stanley M&A, Barclays capital markets (thanks to Lehman), Goldman FIG, BAML LevFin, etc. What sort of war-stories are you looking for?

May 13, 2017

Per a personal source, GS FIG is no longer what it used to be in terms of hellish workloads. The group actually had to turn things around and now has a much better culture and analysts can leave the office at 8-10, then work from home for a few hours as needed.

May 13, 2017

I didn't mean that all of the groups I listed were notorious in terms of hours spent in the office. GS FIG is notorious because they're the personification of the GS culture. If you know guys/gals in this group, you know what I mean.

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May 13, 2017

They actually aren't the personification of the "GS culture"

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May 13, 2017
<span itemprop=name>originationmgmt</span>:

They actually aren't the personification of the "GS culture"

Cool, that was obviously my opinion (based on the fact that I eat lunch with VP of the FIG-NY desk once a week). I'm sure you know more about the group from your extensive reading of second-hand accounts on WallStreetOasis.

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May 13, 2017

I wasn't trying to be cocky or anything. It was a simple statement saying that my friend in fact does not reflect the culture you mentioned. No need to become abrasive. Every group has people that reflect the culture and do not. Very rarely does an entire group converge to the same point.

Assuming that my reasoning is based on WSO accounts is a bit childish as well. I prefer to give back and provide detailed answers to actual material, than to be a "My Name is Goldstein". You have no idea what my background is, so making that assumption is just diluting this forum.

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May 13, 2017

Then PM me, stop shitting up the thread crying like you're my 2 year-old son.

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May 13, 2017

Not exactly sure how you made that observation from my reply - interesting logic.

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Oct 23, 2017

.

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May 17, 2017

This.

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May 16, 2017

I heard recently an analyst from BAML LevFin had a seizure of some sorts from the workload/hours while in the office

May 21, 2017

The Charlotte office?

May 18, 2017

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/22/m...
Is it this guy? Article doesn't disclose the group but the guy had epilepsy and didn't disclose it to BAML. Regardless, a tragedy.

Gimme the loot

May 16, 2017

It was much much more recent than that. I don't want to disclose too much info on the matter however.

May 19, 2017

Nope, nothing as such happened in the group.

May 20, 2017

It happened in M&A.

Feb 16, 2019

What the hell? BAML LevFin is one the chillest groups in the bank.

Jun 21, 2017

.

May 18, 2017

Care to elaborate on Citi fixed income?

May 13, 2017

The culture is still reminiscent of Salomon Smith Barney in this group (at least in my opinion). Deal flow is one of the highest (if not the highest) on the street with deals regularly getting oversubscribed between 2x-10x (that's the capital markets and syndicates' faults though). Hours aren't insane but they're still in-line with what you'd expect from a top group with a brand name.

This story is from my days in FI (lateraled later on after going back to school but that's besides the point), not sure if this is what you're looking for but it was how things worked a few years ago when I was on the Asia desk:

For those of you who have never worked in bank, at your desk you have a dealer-board (some call them turrets). If I need to pick up a trader, syndicate, sales or research line, it's all right in front of me. There are so many phones ringing constantly on a trading floor that generally the ringer-volume is turned down very low, so for the younger guys it can be easy to miss a call if you aren't paying attention. I've seen kids reduced to actual tears for not answering the phone quick enough / joining a call and not muting their line / etc. which is strange considering most of these guys grew up with some sort of phone in their hand yet they lack basic telephone etiquette. So one of the newer (London-office transfer, let's call him "Johnson") guys' dealer-board lights up and he doesn't pick it up because his chair is swiveled around in my direction as he's telling me how he spotted Mr. [last name], the regional head of [group name] leaving a notorious ex-pat hangout with two prostitutes a few nights ago. In all fairness, I only spotted his board light-up seconds before his ass got chewed.
Him: "I met ya mate last night at [the bar], blooming 3 o'clock in the morning clear as mud I saw him! By himself, fucking big cigar and all. Didn't leave by himself though, did he?"
Me: "Are you trying to tell me that you saw Mr. [last name] at [popular ex-pat bar] by himself smoking a cigar and he left with a hooker?"
Him: "That's what I said innit?"
Me: "To be clear, you're saying you saw [last name] pull a late-night solo smash-n-grab at 3am on a Tuesday?"
Him: "Are you retarded? Yeah I saw it with me own eyes!"
Our boss (not hearing our conversation but clearly noticing a call not get answered):"Johnson are you fucking retarded!? How the fuck can I trust you to sell a bond if you can't even figure out how to answer the fucking phones!?"

Edit: The post below this is correct, this is from John Lefevre's "Straight to Hell" novel about Citi FI in the asian region back in the early 2000s if anybody wants to give it a read.

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May 19, 2017

This is straight from "Straight to Hell" either you're John Lefevre or you need to give credit where credit is due.

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May 13, 2017

The kid asked for Citi FI so I gave him a story from that group, I never said that this happened to me. Don't think Lefevre still works in IB, but his book wasn't a terrible read. Some funny stories riddled in there about asian capital markets also. Can confirm some of the antics that bankers would get into (from the novel) since I was working FI in the region at a competing bank at that time.

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May 27, 2017

"Mr. Barna's personal judgment was inconsistent with the firm's values," -No kidding

May 19, 2017

BAML LEV FIN is the absolutely worst! don't go there and save your sanity!

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May 20, 2017

Interesting my friend who recently joined said first year analysts sometimes leave at 6 p.m...

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May 24, 2017

Are they automating the modeling?

May 21, 2017

This is a late follow-up, but color would be appreciated! I work at a different bank but had heard that is a phenomenal Group. I just advised a youngster whos in a club I was in at school to pursue it. I don't want to eat my words but why do you say that?

May 14, 2017

Houlihan Lokey Chicago is reportedly terrible. There are stories about how some MD there harassed women and interns were worked to the bone and then not given return offers. Just a very negative environment.

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May 13, 2017

This on the M&A or Rx space?

May 16, 2017

I've heard this about some HL M&A teams as well but recent turnover at the senior level has killed dealflow

May 16, 2017
<span itemprop=name>Trainer</span>:

I've heard this about some HL M&A teams as well but recent turnover at the senior level has killed dealflow

In what coverage group(s)?

May 16, 2017

Healthcare, heard from a secondary source. Can anyone confirm?

May 19, 2017

Can confirm this. They lost 2-3 MD/Director level employees.

Also the group is a brutal sweat shop. Probably worth looking elsewhere if possible.

May 16, 2017

Thanks. Any insight as to junior turnover after the senior guys left?

May 16, 2017

This seems to be a theme across HC (e.g. HL, Piper, JPM, etc.).

May 19, 2017

had a buddy at MTS Health Partners in New York. Total sweat shop. Decent deal flow/culture, but those guys were working 90-100 hrs. regularly

Jun 4, 2017

Can confirm this as well. Analysts AND associates regularly pull minimum 85 hour weeks. Life science seniors are much stronger, so juniors end up with lopsided exposure and difficulty recruiting for buyside (sponsors don't care for biotech). Also seen numoerous departures

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Nov 27, 2017

.

May 16, 2017
<span itemprop=name>EnergyIBK2010</span>:

Bullet-Tooth Tony:This seems to be a theme across HC (e.g. HL, Piper, JPM, etc.).

Theres just a lot of dealflow in that industry right now, hence the hours. BAML HC and Jefferies HC were absolute sweatshops as well when they used to be top groups a couple years back.

Is that a valid reason? HC deal flow has been strong for some time and is more stable than other industries when it comes to business cycle peaks and valleys. Therefore, one could deduct that staffing would be made adequate, though it appears that it isn't.

May 26, 2017

I wouldn't call HC deal flow strong compared to pre-clinton-tweet era ('14/'15) but it is starting to accelerate once again as people realize biotech/pharma lobby has politicians entrenched in maintaining status quo.

But you're right in that drugs are a relatively inflexible good, especially for orphan disease and disease-modifying treatment, so it does comparatively well even in times of economic downturn or regulatory/political overhang.

May 16, 2017

Heard this as well.

May 16, 2017

Wonder what group that was?

May 19, 2017

Certain groups are long hours, yes (as correctly noted below). Other groups are relatively "great" (deal flow, senior leadership, hours etc.)

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May 14, 2017

Lazard Lizards

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

May 16, 2017

The worst groups are the ones you don't hear about. Think about it this way. Once a group or bank starts getting a reputation for being full of jerks or just too intense, HR gets involved. No group wants that. I spent my second year at an MM in a fairly intense group. I'd share some really good stories, but they'd give me away. I had senior bankers who called analysts everything from motherfucker to stupid POS to waste of space. I had senior bankers who would close their office doors so they could scream at the wall. I had one bankers who got so mad once that I literally almost called the police because I thought the banker was going to kill himself out of rage. Our MM was big on promoting analysts to associate, but not only did few analysts ever stay the full two years, but no one ever stayed on for associate.

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May 16, 2017
<span itemprop=name>Sil</span>:

Our MM was big on promoting analysts to associate, but not only did few analysts ever stay the full two years, but no one ever stayed on for associate.

This. If your bank is big on promoting A-> A, then the group is clearly a revolving door for a variety of reasons.

May 16, 2017
<span itemprop=name>NESCAC</span>:

Sil:Our MM was big on promoting analysts to associate, but not only did few analysts ever stay the full two years, but no one ever stayed on for associate.

This. If your bank is big on promoting A-> A, then the group is clearly a revolving door for a variety of reasons.

I should have clarified, but my group was the only revolving door. Other groups had plenty of analysts stay on.

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May 17, 2017

HR? You think there's an HR department at...oh I don't know...Moelis or Lazard that has the authority to "step in" and change the culture of a group, or of the entire place? You don't need to be a PhD in organizational behavior to know that if that's the way things work, that's the way the boss (who would also be your boss' boss) wants them working. And you leave it the hell alone.

May 19, 2017

Kind of how it works where I work.

The revenue generators pretty much run the place. HR will have little power over a senior MD/Salesman who makes it rain unless there is a really serious issue.

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May 22, 2017

Very true. And what usually ends up happening is that if people don't like someone who is a rain maker, they will slowly take them down. As in, others will complain about them for a while. Or, several people go to senior management to complain about that person. Over many months. The most interesting is when I've seen mgmt. (who have decided to get rid of that person) make life difficult for that person either by messing with their bonus, or transferring them into a new role that they aren't qualified for so that they fail and then they have a great reason to fire that person.

********"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money." - Jerri Blank********

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May 19, 2017

I know but do you really want to get rid of a salesman who is bringing in millions a year in revenue?

Best Response
May 16, 2017

One of my first MDs became infuriated with the intern who was sitting next to me a few years ago. Basically the intern simply didn't know the answer to the question and tried to BS his way out. Cue MDs slaming his fist on what he thought was the interns sandwich. Turns out it was mine and it was still hot so cheese and mustard went all over my shirt, and to top it off the intern cracked and burst out laughing. He was forced to pay a few hundred PS for my shirt and tie and the MD made a point of him never coming back. Said MD continued to crush my sandwiches whenever he saw them for the next year or so as a joke.

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May 16, 2017

I wonder what face he was making when he continued to crush your sandwich...

May 16, 2017

What a shitty MD. God damn it's an intern. There is an experience gap of more than 10-15 years. Why would anyone be angry at that

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May 13, 2017

I doubt he was mad that the intern didn't know the answer to a question, he was probably angry that the intern tried to bullshit his way out of the question. This is one of the biggest no-go's in banking (especially as an intern), if you don't know something then ask someone who does.

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May 17, 2017

I'd say the mortal sin in banking is getting caught BS'ing. To survive and thrive in IB, one must master BS'ing to the point that others become convinced you know what you are talking about. The most successful MD's at my BB didn't know shit, but they could BS their way through anything

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May 16, 2017

Too true, enjoy your banana

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May 16, 2017

He kept crushing your sandwiches? That's kind of dickish...

May 19, 2017

MDs can be some of the biggest weirdos. Always very type-A and aggressive hand shakes lol.

May 17, 2017

I heard at Morgan Stanley there are a few MDs who, if they find even a single error in a final pitchbook, take the first year analyst reponsible and dunk their head in a toilet. Thoughts?

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May 19, 2017

it's not so bad, the toilets are usually clean. plus if you're bald it's easy to make yourself presentable again.

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May 18, 2017
  1. Old school: one of my old bosses told me he was taking it easy on us - when he was a junior, he got the order of information wrong on a call (not the data, just the order he presented it in), call finishes, MD goes back to his office, shuts the door, and kicks his desk apart. Summons my boss, tells him to clean it up while MD heads out to another meeting.
  2. Industrials team at a BB had a culture of juniors competing to 'work the hardest' (re: stay in the office the latest), it resulted in guys regularly going home at 4:00 or 5:00, but rolling into the office at 11:00 am, so not like they were actually pushing 20 hour days, just staying late. MDs got pissed because they could never find juniors, and knocked that shit off, in by 8:00 am, and have to justify to staffer if you were there late.
  3. Friend of mine at a MM in the infra team was freaking out because the juniors banded together and decided that they just weren't going to work that late anymore, he asked a first year to do some modelling, and the kid said no, straight up no, because it would keep him there too late, but he could start it tomorrow. Bastards decided that the team was busy enough that they couldn't fire all the juniors. That was the way it went until bonuses went out (nobody that participated in this crap got paid), and they (virtually) all got replaced.
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May 16, 2017

Wow. The third is totally ridiculous- it's just so "millennial." There are probably hundreds of hungrier kids that would kill to be in their spot.

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May 18, 2017

Point 2 is kinda hilarious. It's like what the guys in Point 3 wanted to do, but failed at.

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May 21, 2017

Yeah...I think they'd be smarter about it than just saying "no". I'd be thinking about trying to pull something in the spirit of the classic husband trick of filling the washing machine with bleach so she never asks you to do the laundry again.

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May 18, 2017

Rothschild and Lazard in London.

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May 18, 2017

--

May 19, 2017

One or two teams at Rothschild in London are busy, but for the majority this is not the case with at all.

May 18, 2017

BMO Metals and Mining in Toronto. Hope you don't like your Sunday nights. Good prestige tho, so if you don't mind working like an Ox it's a notorious group.

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May 19, 2017

have heard stories of 9am-2am everyday for months on end, sounds fun.

May 22, 2017

Yup, can confirm. I worked there myself.

May 18, 2017

JPM FIG has a pretty shitty culture according to a couple buddies of mine in the group

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May 19, 2017

I can confirm that JPM FIG has what two of my friends described as nothing short of toxic. Their hours weren't the WORST I'd ever seen, but the vitriol with which they described their coworkers was alarming. I was also told that the group straight up paid $5-10k bonuses to five or six analysts and that if you leave before mid-August of your second year (for reference almost all PE gigs start mid July) you do not receive a second year bonus.

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May 21, 2017

Location dependent. In London, FIG has supposedly the best culture in Cazenove (UK coverage), not sure if it's the same for EMEA coverage.

May 18, 2017

MS Chicago is brutal

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May 19, 2017

It's not just brutal (though the hours are killer)...the senior team is miserable and the work is crap. Outsourced labor for NYC pitch/industry books.

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Oct 4, 2017

.

May 19, 2017

GS SLC

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May 18, 2017

KA Alabama hazes pretty hard. My friend's girlfriend's little brother's friend goes there and I heard through the grapevine that he had to eat FIVE full cans of long cut Grizzly Wintergreen, WHILE screwing a goat, while planking on bottle caps.

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May 19, 2017

I couldn't help but think of Ferris Bueller with your degree of connection.... XD

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Oct 9, 2017

[]

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May 18, 2017

Can confirm JPM HC is brutal; my family friend recently finished a stint. I talked to her over the phone in her final months and was shocked to hear just how much life had drained from her voice. She straight up fulfilled all my IB nightmares with a short, lifeless phonecall. Buttttt I'm recruiting for IB anyway, so I guess I have a short memory?

May 18, 2017

Can't you shoot for a group that's not necessarily torture?

May 18, 2017

can you elaborate a bit - was it hours or people she had to deal with?

May 16, 2017

Can't speak for this person, but I've heard the hours are just brutal. Pay is at or near the top for JPM's coverage groups. VP I know turned down a promotion and took some time off because he just couldn't handle it any longer (has a kid, married, etc.). Ended up landing a decent Corp Dev gig though and he's totally fine with the huge comp decrease.

May 18, 2017

To be honest, she was so tired, I'm not sure if she was able to elaborate properly (she was working late at night during our call). Over the course of the conversation though, I got the gist that it was mainly hours; obviously everyone was a bit chippy when spending over 100 hours a week in the office, but there weren't any huge issues with people she mentioned. In terms of specific words when I asked, she rambled a little bit, then gave a weak chuckle and said "it is what it is".

May 19, 2017

She sounds primed to take out to dinner

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May 20, 2017

I can confirm. Interned there for a summer. only justification people had for working like that was "it's JP HC, enough said." People there were inherently a backstabbing group of individuals only looking out for themselves and willing to throw others under the bus. As much as every group loves to say "we don't believe in facetime" the group was as facetime-centric as it gets.

May 18, 2017

Probably been said, but Moelis is a known firm wide sweatshop hours wise

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May 19, 2017

HL Healthcare

May 19, 2017

Is Lazard really that bad? Obviously M&A and Rx get swamped but I thought I had a pretty good interaction with the industrials people there.

May 21, 2017

A guy I went to high school with ended up at Lazard Dallas. He, one of the most hardcore guys I've known, could barely handle it for 1.5 years. Exit opps were insane though. Think Apollo/KKR etc.

Feb 21, 2018

Lazard has a Dallas office?

May 18, 2017

BAML E&P in London was / is a solid team, before the adjustments to make work life balance, there was an MD that was pissed he couldn't get staffing for a book, so he called my friend's desk at 12:30ish to ask who was still in the office, the guy would have lied anyway, but the truth was everyone (except one analyst that was travelling) was in the office.

Feb 21, 2018

Kwiki-Mart. Apu's just not all that when it comes to closing a big deal.

Feb 21, 2018

haha:-0

Feb 21, 2018

Lehman Tech might be.

Feb 21, 2018

i know you are smart, but your love for GS and bashing of all other firms is really not necessary

yes Lehman was hurt by woody leaving but saying it is the worst group on wall st is clearly ridiculous

to answer the thread, UBS GIG is pretty awful from what ive heard

Feb 21, 2018
iambateman:

yes Lehman was hurt by woody leaving but saying it is the worst group on wall st is clearly ridiculous

Lehman Tech is separate from Lehman Telecom anyway. Tech is not part of CMG.

Feb 21, 2018
iambateman:

i know you are smart, but your love for GS and bashing of all other firms is really not necessary

yes Lehman was hurt by woody leaving but saying it is the worst group on wall st is clearly ridiculous

to answer the thread, UBS GIG is pretty awful from what ive heard

wtf are you smoking? ubs gig is nowhere near the worst group on the street

Feb 21, 2018
iambateman:

i know you are smart, but your love for GS and bashing of all other firms is really not necessary

yes Lehman was hurt by woody leaving but saying it is the worst group on wall st is clearly ridiculous

to answer the thread, UBS GIG is pretty awful from what ive heard

I do think GS/MS are better opportunities. I think Lehman is a good firm, but their tech group is less than stellar. Just my opinion...

Feb 21, 2018

this is one of the worst questions ever to be asked on this board. how could you expect anyone on this board to have any idea about this sort of thing? any person who tried or tries to answer this knows nothing.

Feb 21, 2018

is a sweatshop in NYC, but still very good...far from the worst...

there is no worst group on street....every bank has its share of worst groups....cs consumer sucks since they lost their whole team to lehman...

Feb 21, 2018

ExGSBanker just calls it how it is. Lehman Tech does suck tremendously, but it's probobly not the worst group.

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Feb 21, 2018

but I've heard Lehman is the best in "semiconductor subgroup" within Tech. Of course this opinion is biased since the dude works in Lehman tech, but who knows.

Feb 21, 2018

but I've heard Lehman is the best in "semiconductor subgroup" within Tech. Of course this opinion is biased since the dude works in Lehman tech, but who knows.

Feb 21, 2018

They lost their team in 2006. From MDs down to analyst, except one vp was left crying.

scotttwibell:

but I've heard Lehman is the best in "semiconductor subgroup" within Tech. Of course this opinion is biased since the dude works in Lehman tech, but who knows.

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Feb 21, 2018

Didn't a lot of them move to DB?

May 19, 2017

VPs at MoCo can get pretty aggressive

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Feb 21, 2018

Long hours and subpar exit opps in my opinion

Feb 21, 2018

I understand the hours. Why the poor exit ops in HC? I would assume they would be good because of the growth and future of the industry. Any info?

Feb 21, 2018

HC might have the best exit opps other than Sponsors. The long hours is right, but there are a ton of HC companies that hire ex-bankers, and there are a lot of sponsors, hedge funds, and other financial companies that are dedicated to HC.
Worst exit opps would be Tech, Media and Telecom. Very cyclical industries that don't hire a lot of people for finance positions because of the cyclicality of demand.

Feb 21, 2018

M&A has the best exit opps--leaps ahead of HC, its not even close.

Exit opps exist for HC, but they serve a specific niche--HC analysts aren't that prominent at tier 1 PE shops.

No way TMT is worst group for exit opps-- GS, MS, CS Tech all place extremely well.

Of course all this depends on your definition of exit opps.

Feb 21, 2018

any other choices for poor groups

Feb 21, 2018

I heard Real Estate has limited exit ops?

Feb 21, 2018
so-cal:

I heard Real Estate has limited exit ops?

well, it is ideal if you want to go into REPE, REIT, RE Development or any RE related role.

Feb 21, 2018

Muni Finance?

Feb 21, 2018

TMT

Feb 21, 2018

I actually said "might have the best exit opps," and of course, I agree with you about M&A (I was only thinking of coverage groups). TMT is pretty bad, GS and MS place everyone well regardless of industry - they're the top-2 banks in terms of prestige. HC may serve a specific niche, but, again, there are hundreds of companies in that niche. Regarding tier-1 PE shops, I don't really agree there - I know a lot of former HC analysts who got jobs at top sponsors. Bottom-line, though, neither of them are "the worst," I actually don't think any group has bad exit opps if you work for a BB bank - maybe ECM?

Feb 21, 2018

ECM blows across the board.

Feb 21, 2018

what is the worse group? are you justifying the fact you are in the 2nd to worst group and want a pat on the back?

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May 19, 2017

My roommate is at Moelis. Works until midnight 1-2am every night, M-Saturday. Sunday works until around 8pm. Also typically pulls an all nighter 3-4 times a month. He hates the job and is quitting as soon as he gets bonus. This is how you know Moelis is bad, he gets a two year bonus (in addition to the standard year bonus) of $70k. Literally they hold a carrot in front of you to get you to stay. He says its absolutely not worth the money.

A different firm, an MD at my company was an MD at Jefferies and said the group head of the NY ibank office is a complete asshole. He would show up to the office at 5pm on saturdays to check who was there. He also told me a story how this asshole showed up one saturday evening and noticed the analysts & associates wearing jeans, casual, etc. This was during the summertime in NYC on a weekend. The group head says "what is this a gymnasium? Everyone go home and put a suit on and come back"

Finance careers are awesome, the people that work in it suck

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May 16, 2017

That last MD sounds alright, it pisses me off to no end when guys come in to the office in jeans or worse, worse a t-shirt.

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May 19, 2017

Its the weekend. You're not seeing clients. I personally think its stupid to get upset over it. Obviously you don't want to look like a slob but put it into context. The only people you're dressing for is the other analysts/associates and to appease an MD that randomly shows up. I think the amount of damage to moral and increasing the likelihood of people departing your firm, its not worth it

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May 21, 2017

I doubt that Jefferies story, there's no head of the NY office and there's not a big focus on dress

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Feb 21, 2018

I'm new to all this so kindly explain...please!

May 21, 2017

Probably referring to Lorello.

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May 17, 2017

Calling BS on someone demanding suits on a Sunday.
Not calling BS on an MD doing bedchecks on a Saturday. You would not believe how f'd up some of these guys' personal lives are. I mean you just wouldn't. The ones doing this are usually some combination of divorced multiple times, loathed by their children, extremely unhealthy, friendless, and able to justify it only by convincing themselves that the choices they made weren't actually choices but requirements of the job.

Feb 21, 2018

real estate, not very "exciting"

Jan 7, 2018

lol sounds like ben lorello

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Feb 21, 2018

Not so sure how many people are going to want M&A in the coming years...

I think many people try to avoid ECM and DCM

Feb 21, 2018

yea i'd always heard that real estate is boring but having been exposed to some of it this summer...it's not all that bad. it all depends on what you're actually doing but some of the products real estate groups handle can be interesting

Feb 21, 2018

syndicated loans = loss leader

Feb 21, 2018

To Devils: m&a will always be a hit with prospective monkeys and recruiters later on. It'll just become a bit harder to get in.

Feb 21, 2018

P.I.P.E's are one of the few areas of I-Banking that will be well protected against any kind of corrections.

Feb 21, 2018

dcm and ecm ive heard are one of the more popular divisions at many banks (ie lehman, etc); i am interviewing w/a dcm division at a bank, so i am curious abt this

Feb 21, 2018

DCM & ECM are looked down on by some m&a and industry group guys. Great careers, just different focus and different "exit opps". I find long term prospects less interesting in ecm/dcm(this is personal), but employees have a real impact much earlier on than in m&a.

Feb 21, 2018

i think if you actually like real estate, then real estate is you best bet. Don't think that is where all the rejected people go from M & A. The real estate groups in bb can actually earn just as much money as most other groups if not all the other groups in the bb. Howver, people have a tendency to say is is not appealing b/c once you stick with real estate then most people usually tick in the real estate sector.

Feb 21, 2018

agreed definitely...everyone i currently work with is pretty much branded and a couple of them have said they got frustrated looking for jobs because lots of companies wont consider you for anything else. this is the case with lots of groups though...

Feb 21, 2018

M&A is not the most coveted group in some banks. Not my year, anyway.

Excluding the capital markets, probably financial institutions.

Feb 21, 2018
barber:

What is the least desirable group in I-banking. To clarify- which group do you not want to be assigned after training. Obviously everybody wants M&A, but what do people not want- if they could choose?

What? Most college kids want M&A. But when you get in the industry, everyone realizes that M&A sucks because your life is terrible...

Feb 21, 2018

Comsumption and health care seem kinda lame to me.

Feb 21, 2018

say you have a year of coverage group experience, and then a year of dcm experience; how would one position themselves to move to the buyside (HF)?

Feb 21, 2018

Well I am not really sure, like I said I graduated in May and am only interning at the HF until Sept. I really want an I-banking position in order to gain experience and learn the industry because I majored in Biology from a small school in South Carolina.

I could talk to an analyst at our firm and get some tips. I think that they are passively looking for another investment analyst.

May 19, 2017

I know one MM TMT group practices what the analysts lovingly refer to as "fake-offs". If a senior hears of a bake off that they didn't get invited to, they'll have the juniors prepare a pitch book to send to the client anyway.

All the pain of a pitch book, with zero chance of it ever turning into a live deal.

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May 21, 2017

That f*cking sucks.

'I'm jacked... JACKED TO THE TITS!!'

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May 18, 2017

Fuck, I remember this shit. I did a pitch with Lev. Fin and one of the MDs thought it would improve our chance of winning if we sent the Ratings Analyst Presentation ("RAP") over as well, to show how keen we were to get the business, and how quickly we could move. So we (industry and Lev. Fin) spent a few shitty days doing the pitch, then a few more shitty days doing the RAP. We were annoyed that the country coverage guys weren't pulling their weight, until we found out from one of the country coverage team that we never had a chance in the first place, which was why they didn't care.

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Oct 9, 2017

delete

May 31, 2017

Lmao

May 19, 2017

Heard Evercore's Houston office grinds hard. Know some people working there, but don't have any entertaining stories to tell. Just know the hours are brutal.

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May 21, 2017

Exit ops are killer from what I heard. Guys signing to go to Blackstone/Apollo after like 6 months on the job.

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May 19, 2017

Technology I-banking coverage circa 2001

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May 19, 2017

Talked to two Moelis analysts and stopped networking there. I've never two people that sounded more lifeless and sleep deprived.

I really respect people that can grind that hard, but it seemed seemed crazy to me when there's so many shops on the street with "decent" work-life balance, at least relatively speaking.

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May 19, 2017

Look up Tap Advisors on glassdoor.com. Apparently, they are not allowed to use silverware or plates that are in the kitchen.

May 20, 2017

Heard same

Jun 21, 2017

.

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