Piper Jaffray: Sweatier Than Ever in 2018

PJC Truther's picture
Rank: Orangutan | banana points 332

Takeaway message:

Piper Jaffray (PJC) is a massive sweatshop. Probably one of the worst MMs for work/life balance from what I've seen and heard. Imperial Capital is the only other MM bank I've heard that is worse, and I guess Lincoln now that somebody died.

Background:

Created this new account for anonymity, but I've spent a few years at Piper so I have a lot of first hand knowledge on just how bad it can be and what HR/sr. bankers never tell people in interviews or networking calls. Instead all they do is parrot on and on about how "Piper really cares about the people" and "We're not like other banks". Not true and is 100% group dependent. Even the "good" groups have some terrible individuals though. Posting this now because of some extremely recent instances which should not be acceptable at all and should highlight why you absolutely should join another firm if you have multiple offers instead of accepting Piper.

Examples and Stories:

- Two analysts had literal breakdowns within the past year. Talking about middle of the day, full blown tears and having to go home. Both highly well regarded too, so it's not like these are scrub first years being overwhelmed. One of the instances involved an analyst having to print out CIMs and NDAs for every single buyer in a process and actually address and put them in FedEx boxes. Keep in mind Piper always says "we have a targeted buyer approach instead of a shotgun blast approach", then proceeds to blindly reach out to 100+ or 200+ buyers. This MD apparently can't accept sending out CIMs electronically and forces a single analyst to do this by themselves on every one of his deals instead of having admins or print services do it.

- Industrials this past summer with multiple interns, analysts, and associates pulling consistent nights until 4-10am, with some doing three days 7-10am in the past week alone. One instance was working until 10am Monday morning (as in was working all day Sunday, then worked through the night until Monday morning) then told to come back at 1pm. If this was really crucial deal-related work, fine. It wasn't.

- Analyst in HC landed at say, midnight, but wasn't allowed to fly into the city the meeting was at because an MD was flying into an airport two hours away and is apparently above uber/taxi/renting a car. So the analyst has to fly in at midnight, wait until 2am for the MD to fly in who was coming from a different city, then drive both of them to the final destination two hours away.

- Analysts having to run 15 detailed A/D analyses for a fucking pitch. Not just a generic let's plug into a template type of thing and cut basic line items from the target's financials, but full blown, digging into 10Ks/Qs and scrub each one as if it was for a fairness opinion.

- Buyer telling sr. banker they didn't want to start outreach until after Christmas and New Years (this was before Thanksgiving). Sr. banker proceeds to force multiple turns of the CIM over Thanksgiving break.

- Sr. bankers publicly chewing out analysts and associates with no repercussions other than getting a "talking to". Stuff such as screaming that somebody is "dumber than a bag of fucking rocks", that "I'll do your fucking job for you since you fucking can't", and sometimes even cussing people out in writing over email. Apparently this is all viewed as acceptable even though Piper is "a firm that cares about its people".

- Saturday policy is a joke. Enforcement is basically non-existent and people work double digit hours on Saturdays all the time. I remember back when Piper had a one weekend a quarter off policy, an analyst was given work Sunday morning and when he told the senior banker that was his protected weekend the response was "oh enjoy the rest of your weekend, just have it on my desk first thing Monday".

Other:

- People complain about the above and then nothing happens. At best a talking to where things die down for a wr two but then then it's back to the same old horrible sweaty AF mentality. I swear to god the basement of a neckbeard who lives with their parents is less sweaty.

- Piper is super fucking cheap and doesn't support its analysts and associates with the resources they need to do their job properly, such as fucking them on weekends by not having a print guy there just to save a dime on admin costs.

- Despite what management likes to think, Piper is not a "leading global middle market investment bank". Two bankers in HK who do literally nothing and tiny offices in like London does not make it a global bank. I mean, the Zurich office just shut down lmao.

Final Notes:

- Some of you might be thinking "why is this poster complaining, that doesn't sound any different from what I experienced". Difference is this is Piper, a run of the mill MM. Many of the guys get worked over as analysts and have little to show for it in terms of exit opps. My view is if you're going to get assfucked, get assfucked by Goldman, Moelis, JPM, Evercore, etc. where you can at least consistently exit to MFs and then it's "worth it".

Mod Note (Andy): Don't miss this post "Biggest Professional Regret?" from a former PJC analyst.

Comments (149)

Funniest
Sep 11, 2018

Strong first post

    • 53
Sep 11, 2018

Well said. There should be a proportional amount of exit opps / compensation to match the amount of assfucking from any firm.

Anyone know of any assfucking arbitrage opportunities? i.e. not horrendous working conditions but good exit opps

    • 5
Sep 11, 2018

Check out the popular insta account, Assfucking Arbitrage Andy

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Sep 11, 2018

Sponsors

    • 3
Sep 11, 2018

Second that.

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Nov 26, 2018

Hmm, I've heard Sponsors tends to be one of the busier groups at BB banks. Maybe not so much in the MM?

Nov 26, 2018

Sponsors was not a busy group at Piper compared to the industry groups, although the exits reflected that. Big issue is sponsors weren't truly part of the deal team - industry teams did all the work still essentially.

Sep 11, 2018

The 15 detailed A/D analyses is priceless. Just having that in the book is to loudly announce that you have no understanding of corporate strategy and /or how CEOs think about acquisitions. Also a total waste of time because as much as we like to pretend otherwise, a short form model will get you within the margin of error on A/D 99% of the time.

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Sep 12, 2018

While this is mostly accurate, CEOs do care about A/(D). Maybe not in a pitch, but they certainly focus on it during DD.

Sep 12, 2018

In diligence. Exactly. Which this banker is not going to be part of. Time spent on overly detailed models is time not spent on things like strategic fit, synergies, pro forma growth, profitability, and competitive landscape, investor reaction, etc. Without a strong case there, the most accretive deal in the world isn't going to get done, let alone initiated.

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Sep 12, 2018

That's certainly fair

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Oct 18, 2018

This is why PJC is dying.

Oct 19, 2018
lapike:

This is why PJC is dying.

Is it though? 5th in MM league tables by volume (16th in value) in the U.S. and 70+ global thru 9/30,

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Oct 19, 2018

I was just at a conference meeting with a group of different PE fellows, and their consensus was that Piper was the sick man of the middle market. Interesting.

Oct 19, 2018

I'm certainly not one to defend Piper and thought it was dying in 2013. But, it's had some really good years lately. Simmons has been doing well, Consumer is strong and HC is a consensus top group, particularly in the MM. FIG has done alright, but Industrials and other sectors may have slowed some.

Oct 20, 2018

Where are you seeing this? When I look at the mergermarket report, it says they are 15th in league tables by volume.

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Oct 21, 2018

Thomson Reuters Mid-Market Q3 Review

Sep 11, 2018

The hard copy CIM practice really bothers me...such a waste of time and effort. Pls just send me PDF and let's be done with it.

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Sep 20, 2018

People are getting hard copies??

Sep 20, 2018

Luckily it's not as widespread of a practice anymore but we occasionally still do

Sep 20, 2018

Wow, what an incredibly inefficient way of doing things. It's 10x easier to have an admin print and bind you a book (I still def prefer to review hard copies) than to have some poor analyst print and send them all. Yikes

Dec 11, 2018

I know some people say it's easier to spot errors with hard copies.

Sep 11, 2018

Is this for NYC, Minny, SF?

I find it particularly sad that they can't even have print shop on weekends. Most have them staffed for some blocks or at least on call.

Sep 11, 2018

Prefer not to say but have heard bad things across all offices, including Charlotte.

Sep 12, 2018
PJC Truther:

Prefer not to say but have heard bad things across all offices, including Charlotte.

I'd lay a bet this is not Minny. I've spent time years ago with A. Duff former CEO and found him much more level headed than other CEOs are in his seat

Sep 12, 2018
WolfofWSO:
PJC Truther:

Prefer not to say but have heard bad things across all offices, including Charlotte.

I'd lay a bet this is not Minny. I've spent time years ago with A. Duff former CEO and found him much more level headed than other CEOs are in his seat

I'm not so sure. HC IT is brutal. One of the overrated groups sounds like it might be Industrials.

Sep 12, 2018

Most of these happened in Minny, I was there this summer. Only one I haven't heard of or seen first hand was the breakdowns but wouldn't surprise me

Sep 12, 2018

Duff was like 0% involved with IB. Sounds like most are from Minneapolis.

Sep 12, 2018

yeah he came up as a muni bond salesman

Sep 17, 2018

[comment deleted]

Sep 17, 2018

I always forget about Simmons as part of PJC and you're right, this post does not apply to Simmons as I haven't really heard anything about that office, good or bad. Although given the lack of horror stories, probably not as bad.

Sep 17, 2018

[comment deleted]

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Sep 20, 2018

Tried to edit but it says I don't have permissions to do so, sorry.

Sep 12, 2018

delete

Sep 11, 2018

How does this sweatshop approach prepare you versus someone at another bank? Disregarding the long hours, unnecessary work, shitty worklife balance, do you guys feel that you might learn the same/more about finance than someone at another bank because of the extra work? Considering piper, so this would be helpful to know. Let's say in a theoretical world the the sweatshop culture hypothetically didn't matter and I only cared about learning experience, would it be worthwhile?

Sep 11, 2018

I guess it depends on the type of work you're doing, right? The 15 accretion dilution analyses OP mentions should hopefully be some sort of learning experience at least, but if you're turning comments for the sake of turning comments on an MP deck or staying up until 4am pulling logos, that's just wasted time.

Sep 11, 2018

I can confirm some of these stories. Honestly, I liked my group but wouldn't say I'd like many of the other groups at Piper and I don't think OP's experiences and perception of the firm are inaccurate. Maybe strongly worded / harsh, but a lot of what he / she is saying I don't disagree with.

    • 5
Sep 11, 2018

Should be put on the front page so everyone knows

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Sep 11, 2018

Is this how you Realize the Power of Partnership (tm)?

    • 3
Sep 11, 2018

The sad thing is stories like this leaking probably won't have any effect. There are 50 desperate kids for every current analyst, willing to pull 28 hours work in a row and print/send out 200 hard copies of CIMs. Thus, PJC has no incentive to change. It is at least helpful for those weighing multiple offers.

    • 1
Sep 12, 2018

Yes, but it makes for painful and expensive associate recruiting when zero of your analysts (or the good ones at least) want to go A2A. The predictable result is that the firm has to spend a zillion dollars recruiting a bunch of MBAs who, let's be honest, are historically very unpredictable performers in IB.

Sep 12, 2018

Do A2As not receive the same signing bonus as an MBA associate?

Sep 12, 2018

Lol. See other posts about PJ's cheapness. A2A signing bonuses are a fraction of those given to MBAs

Sep 13, 2018
middlemarketAF:

Lol. See other posts about PJ's cheapness. A2A signing bonuses are a fraction of those given to MBAs

I almost gave you a monkey shit because this upset me so much. I was able to hold it together though as it's not your fault. I'd give an A2A a 10x bonus over a MBA all day long. Holy crap. MBA grads (with no prior banking or similar experience) are useless for about 18 months and in IB that is basically forever.

Sep 13, 2018

^ this. and let's not forget: on campus recruiting, info sessions, dinners, superdays, etc are not free (not remotely...). all that for MBAs who, as you point out, are wild cards for IB.

Sep 17, 2018

On the note of Piper's cheapness, somebody please post a picture of how depressing the Minneapolis office is. Literally depressing to show up there every day. Management always tries to defend the decor as "highly rated from the manufacturer" and "among their most popular products" - yeah that might be true if that company is mostly providing decor for prisons.

Also we finally decided to join the 21st century and it wasn't until earlier this year that management decided to grace everyone in the office with a single Keurig machine.

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Sep 17, 2018
Oct 1, 2018

Classic, not surprised at all. Other examples of Piper cheapness: No full access to all equity research report providers (we have to Google or ask people at other firms to provide reports from certain banks), extremely limited access to 3rd party databases, no graphics department, no outsourced research team, etc.

Purposely fuck analysts on 401k contributions by requiring you to be an employee the previous calendar year and then paying out once a year only if you're employed at payout, which happens ~February. So an incoming first year analyst won't get a match for their first 6 months, then when they leave after their second year the last 6 months won't get matched either. Meaning Piper only matches 1x even though people work 2 years. Have friends at other firms where matching is not just quarterly or twice a year, but immediate matching upon date of employment.

Purposely pay out bonuses as late as possible (changed to be later compared to before and much later than most other banks). Never pays out a stub bonus, instead analysts don't find their year end #s until end of July (even though they start at the beginning of the previous June), and pay out bonuses not until August 15. They do this since they're so scared of people leaving the summer after their first year and also can screw people after their second year is done June 30 or in instances such as Nuclear where after a person leaves the entire attitude is "tough shit, go fuck yourself", even if they've sacrificed and "did the right thing" for the firm.

    • 2
Oct 2, 2018

Yeah dude also Piper wasn't going to pay out the PTO I accrued because by staying an extra month they tried to claim I lost all the accrual since I was going to be a "real" associate (A1 instead of A0) and therefore had unlimited PTO.

I had to complain multiple times before they agreed to do so. First response was "no" and "tough shit". Wasn't until I told them I had no notice at all (whether in a letter, email, or verbally) that they relented. Should've seen it as a warning sign.

    • 3
Sep 21, 2018

It doesn't make sense paying analysts PSPSPS just to use them as admin or delivery boys/girls tho. I mean I get that they know people would jump to other shops anyways but don't they want their analysts use their brains more often also?

I've been through probs a month of semi admin work without having to use my brain much in my current workplace. I felt like my brain was literally rotten and useless at some point.

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Sep 11, 2018

Honestly, I don't see why people (in general) should care about xyz being a 'sweat-shop if they don't even have an offer from them to begin with to begin with. What's the point?

    • 24
Sep 12, 2018

By that logic I shouldn't give a shit about the intern dying at Lincoln, because I never worked there?

Toxicity in the industry should not be condoned or accepted, regardless of personal stakes.

Sep 13, 2018

...................................

    • 9
Oct 2, 2018

Well said. Toxicity in the industry should lead people to pursue other industries so that this industry doesn't shit on people like they do because they can. If not - nothing will change - thousands willing to go through this crap for the "prestige", gag me.

Sep 12, 2018

Thank you for the post, SB'd. Sounds like a shithole.

Most Helpful
Sep 12, 2018

IB keeps its rep because no one will admit they slaved away their undergrad earning perfect grades to simply slave away at an IB as a glorified assistant. Therefore IBD analysts make it sound "baller" with how much money they make and how they are closing deals. In reality, they are powerpoint b!tchboys (aka the deck and CIM) who make pretty presentations to the sellers of businesses. Modeling is part of the job, but not a huge part. Despite what you learn in the CFA, valuation does not equal price. Some of you were bashing me for my comp valuation I was attempting awhile ago and how I should use free cash flows. Look, we are looking to buy a company at the lowest price possible and justify it by comps in the market, not do a DCF valuation and pay what the company is hypothetically worth 10 years from now.

IB is like spring break. Have any of you ever went for one? Every year tons of horny frat boys go South to places like Cancun, South Padre and Miami to party and hook up every night with ease like MTV made it out to be. I am here to tell you that it was all a ruse. When I went on spring break, it was easily 10 to 15 guys per girl, and most girls kept close to their crew since they know what our agenda was. The truth was far from what MTV made it out to be. However, no guy was going to admit they blew $2000 on a spring break that was shittier than the run of the mill weekend in their college town; so they lie and saied it was crazier than a GGW gang bang.

There you have it folks. The cat is out of the bag.

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Sep 12, 2018

Spot on. And it will never change until the supply/demand equation for these jobs flattens out. In some ways, no different than the "casting couch" issue in Hollywood...actors/actresses get dumped on because studios have 4 million wannabe's for every spot.

    • 1
Sep 12, 2018

This is very cynical and inaccurate

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Sep 13, 2018

^^^Guy who blew $2000+ on spring break for nothing in return

Hold this inaccurate monkey shit.

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Sep 13, 2018

Ok leave the industry you won't be missed

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Sep 13, 2018

'Hardworkingmonkey' You're Incorrect. These are very accurate. Join our group and see for yourself. 345 Park Ave. We will have 4.5ft of desk space for you. That is the max an analyst gets.

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Sep 15, 2018

I'm not an analyst.... 2 ways of looking at the world -- glass half full or glass half empty. It's amazing to me that so many relatively successful people can be so miserable and entitled...

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Sep 17, 2018
hardworkingmonkey:

I'm not an analyst....

I stopped reading right there.

    • 3
Sep 13, 2018

Cancun part is extremely accurate, at least the beach is nice

    • 1
Sep 21, 2018

Woh that reminds me. I went on a boat trip once with another group of folks from the hostel. I suggested we jump in and swim with dolphins. We tried. The dolphins retreated straight away.

Got back to the hostel and had a bunch of people asking me how it felt to be swimming with dolphins. Must be amazing right?

We didn't. We just tried but them dolphins weren't having any of it. Apparently those guys told everyone it was balling swimming with the dolphins.

Lmfao people need to get their ego in check.

Sep 23, 2018

It's the same with an MBA :

After doing my HSW and blowing $250k and two year of my life, I ended up in PE with a job I wanted (I think). A lot of my compadres are getting their nuts ripped in IB (I worked in IB after undergrad, didn't waste $250K to get in there...)

You do have to keep on justifying and telling each other how you are fucking amazing.
I'll tell you what: an MBA is a huge money machine for the University - few will make something out of it, but all will tell you what a unique and amazing experience it was, and they won't forget to tell you they did an MBA...

    • 1
Oct 2, 2018

Brilliant!

Oct 4, 2018

Dude, I crushed it so much on college spring break that I went to the same locale 3 years in a row. Sucks 2BU.

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Oct 21, 2018
Pmc2ghy:

Dude, I crushed it so much on college spring break that I went to the same locale 3 years in a row. Sucks 2BU.

Pics or it never happened.

Nov 27, 2018

Nice post. Where was that spring break analogy originally written? I'm 100% sure I've read it before possible Epicurean Dealmaker?

Sep 12, 2018

Im all for hardwork, but I personally couldnt deal with being cursed at by a manager or disrespect.

If my work is shit, fine, call it a heaping pile of bantha poo poo. But telling someone they are dumber than a box of rocks, or cursing at someone...nah

Sep 12, 2018

Should absolutely be on the front page and on FB/Linkedin/etc.

    • 2
Sep 12, 2018

Does Imperial Capital actually have that bad a rep as a sweatshop? A mutual friend is an associate there and it definitely seems like the analysts get slammed, but there is little info on the firm as a whole so I have never heard of it being widely known as a brutal place to work.

    • 1
Sep 12, 2018
joeyballbag15:

Does Imperial Capital actually have that bad a rep as a sweatshop? A mutual friend is an associate there and it definitely seems like the analysts get slammed, but there is little info on the firm as a whole so I have never heard of it being widely known as a brutal place to work.

No idea about overall culture, but I was once on the opposite side of a deal with them. Their MD was the biggest tool that I've ever come across in banking, complete moron and abrasive to boot.

Sep 21, 2018

i worked with one of their MDs last year and echo that exact sentiment lol i wonder if it was the same guy.

Sep 21, 2018
plskystks:

i worked with one of their MDs last year and echo that exact sentiment lol i wonder if it was the same guy.

Ha, sadly, it's been too many years, and I can't remember the guy's name. He was a group head and based in LA...he was either in industrials or telecom. I'm getting old as it was one of the more bizarre banker-to-banker interactions that I've ever had. Penises were legitimately discussed in the context of a dick measuring contest...in front of a female partner on my team, which was awkward and hilarious. Think of a very intelligent, polished and conservative South American woman hearing what I mentioned before.

Sep 21, 2018

Ha, that's amazing, but I don't think so. I remember a guy who was tanner and balder. This was around 2010. Hair plugs maybe? Also, we only did calls and never met live.

Sep 12, 2018

My MM was very similar to this. There is a general misconception on WSO by some kids that BB is the real deal while MM is taking it easy working 60 hours a week. It's really just the same culture as all the bankers cross pollinate across the banks. For example, my seniors at the MM were all ex-BB people.

Totally, agree that if you're going to slave away, do it at a BB as MM can be the same work but less money and less prestige. However, don't worry about exit-ops. If you got good deal flow and experience, you'll do just fine in MM also. I ultimately got a better exit-op than a lot of BB people coming from a MM and LMM background. It's all about how you play your cards.

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Sep 12, 2018

You include this in the "Great Place to Work" survey last week?

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Sep 12, 2018

I have no doubt this is true but I think readers have to understand that this stuff literally happens everywhere. To paint Piper as more sweaty than the others is probably doing readers a disservice because I could probably describe similar things at the 2-3 banks I am familiar with/have worked at (disclaimer I've never worked at Piper, never interviewed there or even know anyone who works there).

At the end of the day, most of the banks people are familiar with are large organizations. The groups within them are generally fairly large and the diversity of personalities is generally broad as well. I would go as far to say that you need to be wary of any posts where people try to tell you X group at Y bank has better culture/hours than some other group/bank. It will always vary, people are constantly coming/going, and a single MD/VP/etc. can easily ruin your whole experience.

I wish I had advice to give the readers in terms of picking a bank/group but there really is none. Go off your gut in the interview process but just know you'll never meet everyone and the people you do meet and like may not be there just months later.

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Sep 12, 2018

Yeah not saying it doesn't happen elsewhere, but Piper lovessssss telling people that they're different. They're not. Like nobody at Jefferies harps on "the power of partnership" or any of the BS Piper loves to sell.

Here's another story: Religious guy at the firm kindly mentions that he would prefer a VP not cuss at him while on an internal phone call due to his religious preferences. VP proceeds to them rip into him dropping all sorts of F bombs and what have you, screaming at the top of his lungs into the phone.

It's just not worth it when you think about the tier of bank that Piper is.

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Sep 12, 2018
PJC Truther:

Yeah not saying it doesn't happen elsewhere, but Piper lovessssss telling people that they're different. They're not. Like nobody at Jefferies harps on "the power of partnership" or any of the BS Piper loves to sell.

Here's another story: Religious guy at the firm kindly mentions that he would prefer a VP not cuss at him while on an internal phone call due to his religious preferences. VP proceeds to them rip into him dropping all sorts of F bombs and what have you, screaming at the top of his lungs into the phone.

It's just not worth it when you think about the tier of bank that Piper is.

SB'd. This kind of commentary gives real examples that are helpful.

Sep 12, 2018
Quaneaser:

I have no doubt this is true but I think readers have to understand that this stuff literally happens everywhere. To paint Piper as more sweaty than the others is probably doing readers a disservice because I could probably describe similar things at the 2-3 banks I am familiar with/have worked at (disclaimer I've never worked at Piper, never interviewed there or even know anyone who works there).

At the end of the day, most of the banks people are familiar with are large organizations. The groups within them are generally fairly large and the diversity of personalities is generally broad as well. I would go as far to say that you need to be wary of any posts where people try to tell you X group at Y bank has better culture/hours than some other group/bank. It will always vary, people are constantly coming/going, and a single MD/VP/etc. can easily ruin your whole experience.

I wish I had advice to give the readers in terms of picking a bank/group but there really is none. Go off your gut in the interview process but just know you'll never meet everyone and the people you do meet and like may not be there just months later.

HR level bullshit.
Then write about your experience if it was shitty at another bank. The generality comment is not helpful at all. This is about Piper J being a shithole that talented people should avoid. Stop pulling HR tactics to reduce the emphasis on PJ.

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Sep 13, 2018

This post above is an accurate representation of PJC IB. Problems are broad and widespread, not isolated.

Chad Abraham is the key person who is trying to improve culture. Frankly, he is fighting the battle on his own and group heads do not walk-the-talk. Chad delegates culture initiatives to the group heads. Generally speaking the group heads communicate (repeat Chad's emails on policies), but do not enforce or follow the rules themselves. This is not a harsh critique-- this is a fact. Also fact: no actual repercussions when Principals and MDs act in an inappropriate/unprofessional manner. No Immediate nor long term repercussions. If you bring any problem to HR, they will advise you work through the issue with your manager (Group Head or Staffer)- go tell the manager, provide examples, print outs, etc. and nothing will happen. No change.

IB team members at PJC who've been there 2-4 years all have a laundry list of innapropriate Principal and MD conduct that's being notated. See some more general examples:

  1. Sr Bankers are allowed to be verbally abusive in ways that are detrimental to the long term development of VPs, Associates, and Analysts.
  2. Sr Bankers are allowed to turn decks incessantly (continuous non stop turns, for days on end, still turning while flying across the ocean, or turning until 3AM, then again at 8AM)
  3. Sr Bankers are allowed to do minimal, while the VP, Associate, and Analyst produces the majority of content, writing, slide layouts, etc.
  4. So many mental mind games are played, that numerous Associates in the SF office have quit in their third year. Not even worth it to them to stick it out till the VP promotion even if they are talented. Also the bank has a habbit of coming up with rationales of why people quit (female, not a good fit, had a drug problem and was lost in life, etc), they never look internally and say "we lost good talent with XYZ's unexpected departure".

Bottom line: group heads are hesitant to (and don't) demand reform from senior bankers, even if they are unproductive, not value add, aren't sourcing deals, and have poor team management and interpersonal skills. The senior bankers who don't pull weight are allowed to hang around. - Maybe because the firm likes to promote in pitches the tenure of their team and the low turn over at the senior level.

Need more specific examples? An HC Principal demanding he will deduct $10k out of the bonuses of the Analyst and Summer Associate. An Industrials MD being so verbally destructive, a male VP left the office on verge of mental breakdown. Group head telling a direct promote that they couldn't get a 4 week sabbatical, which had been awarded to previous direct promotes- instead this person had to take their sabbatical in divided vacations. Senior banker in SF electing to be out of pocket all evening then wants to turn a deck at 1AM. If you want a list of crazy, go ask one of the sub sector industry teams.

The junior teams are incredibly talented and proficient - often handling large deals on their own (1 analyst per deal team). The majority of the senior bankers that aren't bringing in the large complex deals are dead weight.

If you're an Analyst looking for solid deal exposure, go to a different IBD with leading market share in their core industries. Are you getting your MBA right now? Run away from this bank, because everything they promote externally is a facade.

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Sep 13, 2018

+1 SB for this. You correctly identified the group heads as having huge conflicts of interest. Chad Burton (COO of IB @ PJ) is also hugely conflicted and pretty much useless when it comes to helping fix culture. Complaints are ignored and he actually makes excuses on behalf of the abusive bankers. It's pathetic.

Sep 13, 2018

The above comment and this post in general are so incredibly on point. Anyone contemplating an offer from PJC should definitely give this a serious read. It's a pretty strong signal for someone to coherently list out specific examples and reasons as to why a particular bank sucks. Most shitposts are just filled with generic "fuck you's" designed to entertain, but failing to provide any significant or compelling arguments to avoid a certain firm.

To those who care, I also spent my analyst years at Piper and strongly agree with the points that have been raised already. Just for the sake of my own catharsis, I'll toss in my two cents as well.

Senior bankers at Piper are incredibly inept and are held to a shockingly low standard when compared to their junior counterparts. It's laughable the number of times MD's will bring in shit deals with an almost zero probability of close. Anyone who has done a stint in banking knows that these "opportunities" are an utter waste of time and ultimately (like 99.9% of the time) lead to multiple failed processes and broken engagements. It's so frustrating to spend countless hours filtering and organizing data into something that might be construed as meaningful, only to be torpedoed by your own incompetent management team that doesn't realize that their company isn't worth shit. Please realize that not even your own mother (who has to love you fucking unconditionally) would offer a 50x multiple on a fabricated EBITDA with adjustments that a tired and broken associate spent all night brainstorming because the MD insists that "there's value in there somewhere." For most MD's, a majority of deals in their pipeline are non-existent opportunities used to inflate their own self-worth and justify their value and existence to Group Heads and senior execs.

Exacerbating the management team / MD dynamic is that most senior bankers perpetuate the cycle of feeding the management team's ego and supporting their biases because they want to maintain the "relationship" and collect the fee. They insist it was the buyer failing to comprehend the thesis of a potential investment / acquisition and placate their clients by reiterating the company is more valuable than it really is. Sure, the MD has incentive to prolong a deal due to option value, but it comes at a serious waste of junior resources. I understand that banking is a client-facing industry, but the MD isn't the one sacrificing weekends and nights trying to pull together bullshit analyses that will never "grease" the "path" to getting a "deal" done.

Reading the above comments, it's true that fucking over the junior team members is a systemic issue embedded in banking culture. That being said, Piper is so delusional that they proactively market themselves as a firm above and apart from the traditional "Wall Street culture" in their recruiting efforts. Potential candidates should be knowledgeable about the "Piper difference" and interviewers are encouraged to discuss Piper's "strong" culture and "emphasis on the junior team experience through senior leadership exposure." It's like they're gaslighting themselves into believing a message that is just not true. Frankly, the lack of self-awareness is astonishing.

tl;dr: banking sucks. Piper just sucks prohibitively more

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Sep 13, 2018

The firm generally has a big culture problem that starts directly at the top. Group heads don't give a shit about employees and are only worried about the bottom line. They have been told of issues, promise change, and nothing has changed in years.

There is a clear us vs. them mentality among the officers vs. junior staff (Analyst/Associate). Frequently complain about millennials and blame their retention issues on juniors being weak whiners who aren't good at their job rather than looking in the mirror and realizing that the problem is at the top and you overwork/overstaff them. Refuses to hire enough people to support the growth the firm has had recently, resulting in high turnover which becomes a circular reference of being understaffed (e.g., another group in my office has had 3 associates that have quit recently mid-bonus cycle, only one of which had a job). Deal teams are lean with never more than 1 analyst and 1 associate, despite most juniors working on 3-5 live M&A processes at a time.

Saturday and mandatory vacation policy was supposedly implemented 2 years ago but in that time it has never actually been followed. Staffers, some of which are the worst abusers in the group of junior resources, handle the management of the policy which inherently creates conflict of interest. At this point they don't even bother to ask who worked on Saturday for any other purpose that to figure out who has capacity, let alone follow the actual policy and the relevant approvals for Saturday work. Senior bankers actively joke about the policy and that it "isn't a real thing".

Lack of basic support exacerbates the issues above as time is then wasted on tasks that should be handled by admin or support staff.
- Analysts working 100+ hour weeks don't have admin support for expenses or travel
- Most print/production staff leaves by 7pm resulting in 90% of document printing/binding being handled by junior staff in the wee hours of the morning
- Sending hard copy CIMs (mentioned by OP)

Firm management is obsessed with being a "Great Place to Work" but majority of changes over the last couple of years have been cosmetic or focused on making it a great place for the support and back-office staff rather than the front-line revenue generating employees since everyone knows IB is too busy to respond to the survey (e.g., gym subsidy as long as you're junior enough, jeans Friday, sit stand desks, etc.). I'd recommend they take care of their analysts and interns that sleep in the office for multiple days in a row rather than some fucking jeans. Maybe focus on retaining your good junior employees rather than viewing everyone as disposable. Analysts are cheap in the grand scheme of things but replacing one isn't nearly as easy as they think it is.

There is a big different between having to work long hours and being treated as sub-human by senior bankers.

MM banking gives you great experience, but do it anywhere but piper.

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Sep 14, 2018

Thanks for posting, I'll keep your insights in mind.
Just a couple of questions: so after your PJC years would you say that other MM firms (William Blair, Baird, HW) are better (well, as much as banking allows that) at treating analysts fairly? Do you have any experience/stories with a MM that doesn't have the unfortunate title of Piper, or did you move out completely?

Sep 17, 2018

This was my IB experience at a boutique in Toronto. Two of my years gone and I felt I left with almost nothing to show. Also pretty spirit breaking and attitude changing when you grind so hard on another garbage deal that sucked a little less than the last one and once again it goes absolutely nowhere...a fate you could've predicted within the first 5 mins of meeting the "client".

Sep 13, 2018
sttie1774:

This post above is an accurate representation of PJC IB. Problems are broad and widespread, not isolated.

Chad Abraham is the key person who is trying to improve culture. Frankly, he is fighting the battle on his own and group heads do not walk-the-talk. Chad delegates culture initiatives to the group heads. Generally speaking the group heads communicate (repeat Chad's emails on policies), but do not enforce or follow the rules themselves. This is not a harsh critique-- this is a fact. Also fact: no actual repercussions when Principals and MDs act in an inappropriate/unprofessional manner. No Immediate nor long term repercussions. If you bring any problem to HR, they will advise you work through the issue with your manager (Group Head or Staffer)- go tell the manager, provide examples, print outs, etc. and nothing will happen. No change.

IB team members at PJC who've been there 2-4 years all have a laundry list of innapropriate Principal and MD conduct that's being notated. See some more general examples:

  1. Sr Bankers are allowed to be verbally abusive in ways that are detrimental to the long term development of VPs, Associates, and Analysts.
  2. Sr Bankers are allowed to turn decks incessantly (continuous non stop turns, for days on end, still turning while flying across the ocean, or turning until 3AM, then again at 8AM)
  3. Sr Bankers are allowed to do minimal, while the VP, Associate, and Analyst produces the majority of content, writing, slide layouts, etc.
  4. So many mental mind games are played, that numerous Associates in the SF office have quit in their third year. Not even worth it to them to stick it out till the VP promotion even if they are talented. Also the bank has a habbit of coming up with rationales of why people quit (female, not a good fit, had a drug problem and was lost in life, etc), they never look internally and say "we lost good talent with XYZ's unexpected departure".

Bottom line: group heads are hesitant to (and don't) demand reform from senior bankers, even if they are unproductive, not value add, aren't sourcing deals, and have poor team management and interpersonal skills. The senior bankers who don't pull weight are allowed to hang around. - Maybe because the firm likes to promote in pitches the tenure of their team and the low turn over at the senior level.

Need more specific examples? An HC Principal demanding he will deduct $10k out of the bonuses of the Analyst and Summer Associate. An Industrials MD being so verbally destructive, a male VP left the office on verge of mental breakdown. Group head telling a direct promote that they couldn't get a 4 week sabbatical, which had been awarded to previous direct promotes- instead this person had to take their sabbatical in divided vacations. Senior banker in SF electing to be out of pocket all evening then wants to turn a deck at 1AM. If you want a list of crazy, go ask one of the sub sector industry teams.

The junior teams are incredibly talented and proficient - often handling large deals on their own (1 analyst per deal team). The majority of the senior bankers that aren't bringing in the large complex deals are dead weight.

If you're an Analyst looking for solid deal exposure, go to a different IBD with leading market share in their core industries. Are you getting your MBA right now? Run away from this bank, because everything they promote externally is a facade.

Holy crap...I spent 5 years as an analyst split between S&T and IB at two different BBs. I'm a glutton for punishment, but this sounds horrible.

Sep 13, 2018

The quote from the principal was "I will take out $10k from your bonus for every fucking comment you miss" after a team shockingly failed to turn his entire deck in about 10 minutes so he could send it to the client who wasn't expecting it for another week. This was directly after telling them "maybe if you guys weren't playing with your fucking dicks you could get this fucking shit done"

This was all shouted in front of the entire floor btw

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Sep 17, 2018
sttie1774:

1. Sr Bankers are allowed to be verbally abusive in ways that are detrimental to the long term development of VPs, Associates, and Analysts.
2. Sr Bankers are allowed to turn decks incessantly (continuous non stop turns, for days on end, still turning while flying across the ocean, or turning until 3AM, then again at 8AM)
3. Sr Bankers are allowed to do minimal, while the VP, Associate, and Analyst produces the majority of content, writing, slide layouts, etc.

From my experience, 1-3 happen almost every week. I do not think this is out of the ordinary.

Sep 13, 2018

Banking is fucking stupid and I can't believe you cunts on this forum tricked me out of a CompSci degree, 6-7 hour work day, 100k base salary and stock options.

You shouldn't be defined by your career, but when you're a slave, you're a slave. After Uncle Sam and my landlord tag team my ass, I wonder how I'm going to build a castle in the hamptons with bread crumbs.

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

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Sep 13, 2018

Didn't they say 100k in SV is like making minimum wage due to COL?

No pain no game.

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Oct 3, 2018
Jamie_Diamond:

Banking is fucking stupid and I can't believe you cunts on this forum tricked me out of a CompSci degree, 6-7 hour work day, 100k base salary and stock options.

Got 'em! Good job boys, lets go home

Nov 27, 2018

COTY

Sep 13, 2018

Real Question - Is Piper worse than Moelis LA/NY?

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Sep 13, 2018

" Industrials this past summer with multiple interns, analysts, and associates pulling consistent nights until 4-10am, with some doing three days 7-10am "

If PJC is actually doing 3/7 days up till 7-10am (on average) and coming back in the office at 1PM w/ approx ~2 hours of sleep then yes.

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

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Sep 13, 2018

Holy crap that sounds terrible - def worse than the staffer email sent out. Atleast Moelis tends to allow their analysts to work from home as far as I know.

And @bullet-tooth tony - Yeah it was a drug fuelled suicide if I'm not wrong. Really sad.

Sep 13, 2018

Sounds right based on my recollection of second hand info

Sep 13, 2018

Just can't understand what forces analysts to stay till 7am in the morning..

My only experience with IB is at a regional boutique and we didn't do jack shit and still closed deals. Hours were literally 9-7pm.

Sep 13, 2018

Wasn't there an associate that lateraled from Piper to Moelis NY and died a couple years back?

Sep 13, 2018

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

Sep 13, 2018
Jamie_Diamond:

https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/29-year-old...

Sadly, this isn't the right guy. There is another one that had less pub. I think I'm confusing this one with the one I was thinking of, which was more of an O.D., but not knowingly deliberate.

Sep 13, 2018

I have friends that work at Piper; albeit not in the IB group. They had stories of violently throwing sht during breaks of rage breaking phones, breaking monitors, and someone breaking their keyboard over their knee. At the time I thought it was made up fables...

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Sep 13, 2018
WolfofWSO:

I have friends that work at Piper; albeit not in the IB group. They had stories of violently throwing sht during breaks of rage breaking phones, breaking monitors, and someone breaking their keyboard over their knee. At the time I thought it was made up fables...

This sounds like some sort of dystopian Stratton Oakmont

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Sep 13, 2018

A director told me that something like this but not as extreme of an environment was the norm on his S&T floor at another BB "back in the day". And as far as I know, this behavior has mostly stopped based off personal experience, but there are still crazy floors and specific desks out there.

Sep 13, 2018

Spot on post. Everything said is in tune with what actually goes on at PJC.

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Sep 13, 2018

Shits not even funny. Bless anyone's heart who works there and is a victim of it. Stay strong until you can pivot out.

I'm very surprised I'm not hearing people do some impulsive things to get them out of this.

Sep 14, 2018

Well said. Not too different from my experience at a boutique that "was different from other banks."

Banking is banking. The difference is how much you are getting paid while you do it.

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Sep 16, 2018

Deleted

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Sep 16, 2018

Is this a product of the Edgeview acquisition or are those guys not the issue?

Sep 16, 2018

These guys are not the issue. If anything the boutique culture at Edgeview is probably more laid back. On the Junior level there is no interaction across the two sites (Minneapolis and Charlotte). I would say the DIS Minneapolis office is where these horrible stories are exclusively coming from.

Sep 16, 2018

New MDs?

Sep 16, 2018

Definitely not a DIS or Minneapolis only problem

Sep 17, 2018

Agreed

Sep 16, 2018

FWIW, heard stories that Baird in Chicago is moving this direction as well.... Friend who left there recently said they got some new MD's and it turned into a total sweat shop

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Sep 18, 2018

Ouch! it might be outdated info but from what I've heard Baird had pretty good culture before. Do you think this is a shift in the MM field?

Sep 19, 2018

From what I can tell, I really see most MM banks heading towards opposite ends of the spectrum. The really good ones are able to promote a better culture and actually stick to it (for the most part), while those trying to move up the ranks are turning into sweat shops so they can max out profitability. This could be a mass-generalization, but I still see it as the guys at the top of the MM saying "look, we are crushing it and we are taking our culture seriously", which leads the top candidates going there, vs. the middle/bottom of the pack saying "look, we aren't doing those same quality of deals yet but we are going to grind everyone until we do".

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Sep 19, 2018
ShelbyCompanyLimited:

From what I can tell, I really see most MM banks heading towards opposite ends of the spectrum. The really good ones are able to promote a better culture and actually stick to it (for the most part), while those trying to move up the ranks are turning into sweat shops so they can max out profitability. This could be a mass-generalization, but I still see it as the guys at the top of the MM saying "look, we are crushing it and we are taking our culture seriously", which leads the top candidates going there, vs. the middle/bottom of the pack saying "look, we aren't doing those same quality of deals yet but we are going to grind everyone until we do".

Profitability is one component, but MM banks that are chasing the top names seem to be trying to compete with volume or quantity of deals rather than quality. My guess is that without wanting to add bodies, some of the groups are taking on riskier deals with lower probability to close in an effort to drive tombstones and climb the league tables in number of deals.

This doesn't necessarily speak to Piper's notorious analysis and comps just for the sake of keeping juniors there until 4am policy though.

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Sep 19, 2018

I do see the banks chasing volume directly impacting culture. Those banks are the ones who are consistently understaffed at the junior level.

I do agree that this is not 100% responsible for the total b/s that these guys are experiencing as Piper. I do think that they are somehow related however.

Sep 18, 2018

Here is my .02

I have several friends and close colleagues who previously worked at Piper, all with similar accounts to this one. There is always some element of pain for an IB analyst, as many of us know, but this type of stuff is excessive. Especially the insults/verbal abuse.

Piper isn't the only offender. There is a toxic dynamic that is perpetuated by most banks:

Senior bankers treat juniors with zero respect, because they can get away with it and because they have zero incentive to change their bad behavior. Maybe they went through a similar experience themselves, or maybe they just enjoy the power trip. Analysts unwillingly enable this, because they typically just take it and keep their heads down, with hopes of exiting smoothly with good recommendations.

It's a pervasive, toxic culture problem that enables those in control, and perpetuates this revolving door dynamic with top talent at investment banks.

A question for all of us - Why are we allowing this to continue? Is there something we can collectively do about it?

I think WSO has historically been effective at exposing the darker sides of finance and facilitating change. Maybe we start seeing some macro shifts when more stories like this come to light (and in greater frequency).

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Sep 18, 2018
km190:

Here is my .02

I have several friends and close colleagues who previously worked at Piper, all with similar accounts to this one. There is always some element of pain for an IB analyst, as many of us know, but this type of stuff is excessive. Especially the insults/verbal abuse.

Piper isn't the only offender. There is a toxic dynamic that is perpetuated by most banks:

Senior bankers treat juniors with zero respect, because they can get away with it and because they have zero incentive to change their bad behavior. Maybe they went through a similar experience themselves, or maybe they just enjoy the power trip. Analysts unwillingly enable this, because they typically just take it and keep their heads down, with hopes of exiting smoothly with good recommendations.

It's a pervasive, toxic culture problem that enables those in control, and perpetuates this revolving door dynamic with top talent at investment banks.

A question for all of us - Why are we allowing this to continue? Is there something we can collectively do about it?

I think WSO has historically been effective at exposing the darker sides of finance and facilitating change. Maybe we start seeing some macro shifts when more stories like this come to light (and in greater frequency).

Here's a good one, an abrasive MD had a client in for a meeting. This client was a fraternity friend of said MD. The MD rudely barked at an analyst to come over and hang up the client's jacket. The client, sensing the hazing, continued the tirade and said something to the effect of, "Now you'd better be careful with this jacket young man and hang it up right, because if you can't do this right, then what good are you at anything else..." which at that point the analyst threw the jacket on the ground and went back to his cube. He quit not too long after that for greener pastures.

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Sep 18, 2018

Good news guys! We got an email from the top saying we're all on the same team and they're going to root out the bad actors! Also, they noted that we're not going slow down, which I can only presume they included because it would be impossible for them to send a let's fix this email without somehow revealing senior bankers just feel we're soft.

I would feel exponentially better if they simply ended the charade and acknowledged they really didn't give a [email protected] about junior bankers. They came close when they bragged last year about how profitable they were, since the banking staff was so lean. MDs should admit they can't list three things they've done differently since the last staffing crisis 1.5 years ago or the one before that. Goldman's weekend policy if five years old and PJC doesn't have an effective one in most groups. Just admit they feel they're in the "we made it club," and that they were making a killing and couldn't really say what it was like to be a junior banker where you could work on planes with 100MB models since their books look like they were written in crayon. That they can't grasp the irony of yelling at people for not sending a version of something that can be viewed on an iphone when they started banking with rotary phones.

Just admit the reason why they don't come to the office and they don't invest their time in training and mentoring, is because they don't believe there are benefits to engaging people and keeping them around. Otherwise, why wouldn't they have done so by now? The system as it is, exists serves them and that's fine. It boggles my mind the lack of effort some of them are putting into their business, and I can only deduce they're ok with retiring or getting fired in a few years when the wheels come off and they have no qualms about wasting analysts' time on crap deals / pitches / exercises.

The vast majority of senior bankers should be ashamed. You have smart kids working tirelessly for you and you can't even put in the time to know what they look like, let alone try to coach. I have no doubt that the weeks of 3-hour nights is taking days off the end of my life and people won't even sit with me for an annual review. No one should choose to work for the majority of groups at PJC if any alternative exists and nothing they do can change the disinterest in junior bankers' lives they've so clearly demonstrated. Not doing anything for years is itself a form of decision.

And I can say the bad groups in PJC are exceptionally bad among other MM banks. I've worked for one full of [email protected] and 4a nights, but they were proud of what they did. MDs came to work and looked for VPs they liked to mentor and VPs looked for Associates, because it made a better bank. They wanted to work on the best deals and best teams. At PJC your late nights are caused because someone didn't think about you versus trying to make you better, and you're staffed too unfairly thin to do anything well, and the people who are supposed to be helping you are gone. If you're recruiting then don't trust this article, but ask them who's a success story of someone who stayed more than 2 years. Ask for examples of how people have been mentored or what they've personally done to invest in someone's future. If examples are nonexistent or seem a little fishy, I'd look to lever the offer.

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Sep 18, 2018

Great posts - incredibly insightful and sad. But the real issue is the almost manic and irrational desperation of many to land these jobs. Thus there can be no doubt why the PJ offenders act like they do - because they can. I remember the post in the DB thread where someone said that in spite of DB's problems, they "would crawl through glass to land a job there". Or the Moelis 3AM desk check. Why do people put up with this? There are other careers for smart, driven people. Nothing will change until the supply-demand equation does - which it never will.

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Sep 19, 2018

I don't know anyone who is happy there. If you're going to go MM, go somewhere that's known for a kick ass culture (Baird and Blair come to mind, hell even TD is supposed to be pretty chill)

Sep 19, 2018

Sounds like there are some cultural issues. But lots of acc/dil analyses in pitches and updating books over Thanksgiving is pretty standard for investment banking anywhere. I also had to do all my own printing and binding as an analyst. The cultural issues should be brought to light, with the hope of eventually changing the norm. But I would try to avoid complaining about analyst tasks that are part of the job description...

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Sep 23, 2018

People with your mindset are truly what is wrong with IB. It's standard, and implicitly acceptable, to work your junior employees over a holiday that's supposed to spent with their family? GFY.

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Sep 20, 2018

wow. There were so many times I wanted to write this exact same type of report about my bank while I was in IB, but dam, it was DEF not as bad as this. There was a lot of inefficient and inconsiderate people, but I never heard a single MD raise their voice in the office. Like the sr people were all professional/respectful on a personal level (even if they still torpedoed weekends with work). Also, protected weekends were sacred and pitches/deals would get restaffed for the weekend if you were protected (we had 1 full weekend per month vs every Saturday). So, dam man, you're my hero for writing this!

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Sep 20, 2018

Yeah, I just couldn't take it anymore. Quite cathartic to write and post actually.

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Sep 21, 2018

Good on you. More of us should be willing to do this. I recall someone doing a pretty thorough write up about STRH years back that was really good (albeit had a slightly diff tone) and I'm sure very imformatice to anyone looking to go there. I'll have to do one on my bank someday.

Additionally, it's also funny because I'm guessing that you, like myself, and like many (most on this forum) entered into IB with the belief that once we'd made it there that we'd be set. Would be no need to stress about career bc we had made it to the "top" from the perspective of our jr in college selves and we'd be making so much money and get to show how bad-A we are with our crazy IB war stories. The unfortunate reality is that banking lifestyle can be very brutal (and unhealthy) and despite the fact that there's 1000 kids behind you willing to take your spot should have absolutely no influence on your decision to call out certain egregious acts for what they are. The crowd here makes it seem like those 1000 kids behind you would happily take over your spot and do the whole thing with a smile. That's utter nonesense. They may be happy to take the spot but if it's a bad culture they are going to hate it just as much as the next 999 after them.

While I believe the whole "everybody goes through it" or "there's 1000 kids lined up to take the spot" should provide some sense of solidarity and help you to appreciate having accomplished something very admirable (in that it took a lot of hard work and preparation), it should NOT be used as an argument to try to shame / silence those who call out terrible leadership / culture.

I will caveat this to say that there is a time and place for complaining and airing grievances. You do not want to be the one kid in the group who is always complaining to other analysts / associates about how they are singled out as the true victims. But if a write up like this is cathartic, do it!! I think it's a net positive towards the very slow progression of improving IB cultures.

Good luck man!

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Sep 21, 2018

Is this the thorough write up on STRH? https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/suntrust-ro...
I nearly went there, I have four buddies who ended up at STRH who are super happy with their lives. Respectable deal flow, laid back culture, and your dollar goes forever in ATL.

Sep 21, 2018

There's more to life than just Investment Banking... hahaha

Sep 22, 2018

Regarding what you were saying about exit opps, if your work at Piper J's sweatshop was a few years of hell and then you have some automatic extremely prestigious job offer from an elite firm or whatever, sign me up.

But if you're slaving and then still on the same ranking and have the same opportunity, if not worse, as everyone else at other banks, then it's bullshit.

I might even consider this job over Piper J's:

https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/would-you-t...

Sep 24, 2018

PJC is the only game in town if you want to be in Minneapolis. For that reason, the exit opps in the Twin Cities are actually pretty great, and there's a really strong network of people who work in finance here and have been through the ringer at Piper.

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Sep 25, 2018

Lazard, HW, BMO in town as well

Sep 26, 2018

Lazard Middle Market <> Lazard. And I wouldn't put BMO or HW in the same tier as PJC.

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Sep 29, 2018

...

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Sep 29, 2018

Good lord, who cares? This is over thinking!

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Sep 29, 2018

In the Twin Cities, PJC is definitely perceived as more prestigious than HW or BMO, and the exit opportunities/entrenched alumni network is much stronger.

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Sep 30, 2018

What kind of exit ops have you seen from PJC Minneapolis? Have heard it consistently dragged for not having great ones across this website so I am curious. I signed my SA offer for that office a few weeks before this post came out

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