1/16/07

As an incoming summer analyst, I'd appreciate some opinions on the differences between Goldman Sachs San Francisco, and Credit Suisse San Francisco. This discussion should only be concerned with the SF offices.

I'm looking for some distinction between the firms based on the following metrics:

  • Prestige: I think I'll get an obvious answer here, but I want to remove this bias from the rest of the metrics.
  • Compensation: Maybe in terms of Analyst base pay / bonus
  • Domain Expertise: i.e. Have the people at the firm worked in industry / taken a technology related degree such as Engineering or Computer Science?
  • Culture: Is the office laid-back? Intense? I'm familiar with GS's team-based culture, so I'd appreciate an answer that's catered to the SF offices.
  • Deal Flow: Which firm is better for an analyst?
  • Exit opportunities / optionality: PE/VC/Industry/Internal
  • Any other interesting differences or metrics that could be used to evaluate the SF offices... location?

Also, please indicate what you are basing your opinion on.

Comments (71)

1/16/07

Prestige: Credit Suisse, hands down.
Comp: Competitive.
Domain Expertise: Irrelevent. Completely.
Culture: Very similar.
Deal Flow: CS. Although GS is better than average.
Exits: VC industry is dead. As an analyst expect zero opportunities, but you never know. PE exits exist for both, but somewhat limited overall. Industry? Sure corporate development, strategic planning, etc. Internal? Well you could always be the next Frank Quattrone.

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1/16/07

Prestige: Hands down GS overall, I don't know what buyside is talking about - this isn't 1999
Comp: Same for both
Domain Expertise: Who cares - totallly irrelevant
Culture: Similar - I'd say that GS is a bit more team focused, lots of senior exposure at CS with Boutros etc.
Deal Flow: GS is a continuous strong player in Tech, CS is hot now. I'd call it a wash.
Exits: GS has better PE recruiting for west coast: Whatever bank you do will be fine for industry exits

1/18/07
Westcoasting:

Domain Expertise: Who cares - totallly irrelevant

I care--so I'll ask again: who has greater domain expertise?

i.e. For me this boils down to:

Which set of people (GS SF versus CS SF) can relate better to their clients in terms of understanding their company's underlying technology?

Which set of people (GS SF versus CS SF) have worked in the tech industry (and thus have contacts)?

Which set of people (GS SF versus CS SF) is more passionate about the underlying industry?

I'm trying to get a sense of the differences between the kinds of people who work for GS SF / CS SF.

Thanks.

1/17/07

The Goldman name (after 2 years as analyst) will always carry more weight than CS. I don't think that CS will be the top Tech bank like it was back in 1999. The best that it will be is #2 after Goldman.

1/17/07

Goldman is the Gold Standard on Wall Street (check this past quarter's earnings) - the most prestigious investment bank I think hands down.

Heard of two analysts at GS in SF that landed $650K contracts for two years ($325 a year) with PE after 2 year stints at GS.

1/17/07
dim84a:

Goldman is the Gold Standard on Wall Street (check this past quarter's earnings) - the most prestigious investment bank I think hands down.

Heard of two analysts at GS in SF that landed $650K contracts for two years ($325 a year) with PE after 2 year stints at GS.

I agree that it's the gold standard, but then why does "the street" pay a P/E of roughly 22 for the industry and only 10 for GS?

1/17/07

wannabe, i'm no banker but other broker/dealers have similar p/es. look at lehman, bear, morgan stanley...

1/29/07

Not exactly sure what industry you're looking at, but GS competition has P/Es very much in line - around 10 - check bsc, leh, ms, mer.

1/17/07

GS SF is only good for TMT. If you get one of the other groups then you are better off at CS. MS M&A Tech is another great option. I personally think i woudl take M&A MS over GS TMT, but I'm a product guy and more interested in experiences than pure brand names. Plus no one ever looked down on a MS banker.

1/18/07
Westcoasting:

GS SF is only good for TMT. If you get one of the other groups then you are better off at CS.

What are the other groups at GS SF? Sizes? Do analysts get placed into a specific group?

I know CS SF is predominantly Corp-Fin Tech, M&A Tech, and Healthcare. (Correct me if I'm wrong--this is what I've gathered from the recruiting process at my school.)

Also, some insight into how GS Tech / TMT is distributed between SF and NY would be helpful. How is GS structured in this sense?

Thanks.

1/29/07

CS IBD. I've also heard that the move from BO-FO at GS is especially hard.

1/29/07

Not sure about how good CS is in Singapore, but I would pick IBD anyway.

1/29/07

Pick IBD. Back office is a blackhole

1/29/07

The tech guys are incredibly smart people, so don't think it'll be an 'easier' route. I'd go with what you want to do in your life. Personally, IBD is super appealing so I'd pick that.

1/29/07

Two very different offers, go for the one you are most interested in. CS IBD will probably give you more mobility in the long run

1/29/07

Would do CS IBD in Singapore, myself. But admittedly would be apprehensive about being in an entirely new part of the world.

1/29/07

thanks guys

1/29/07

It all depends on what you wanna do. If you wanna do tech go for GS. If you wanna do IBD go with CS. I am unsure whether you actually have an offer from CS but if you do then it should be pretty clear based on career outlook.

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing.

See my Blog & AMA

1/29/07

Location shouldn't matter.

Pick which area you are interested in more. I like IBD so I would pick IBD. But don't feel pressured based on what strangers are telling you to like. On this site you will get everyone answering IBD because nobody wants to work for tech on this site.

1/29/07
dubyawhy:

Location shouldn't matter.

Pick which area you are interested in more. I like IBD so I would pick IBD. But don't feel pressured based on what strangers are telling you to like. On this site you will get everyone answering IBD because nobody wants to work for tech on this site.

I think that 2+ years was enough time for the OP to make his choice.

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1/17/07

they view Goldman as big hedge fund with other "consulting" services attached.....there was an article about this recently....it's the trading arm that generated big chunnk of profits last year, even though banking had great year as well.

I didnt even know GS had groups other than TMT in bay area.....Most of CS is tech as well (corporate finance, M&A)....they also have few people in healthcare

1/29/07

Probably Moelis LA

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

1/29/07

bump

1/29/07

I personally know people in GS SF TMT and can tell you that good analysts got offers/interviews with any PE shop they wanted (regardless of geography). If you're good in GS TMT, you'll be golden. Definitely can't say the same for CS. Also, I've never heard of a CS TMT deal.

1/29/07

Wouldn't SF be closer to tech co. for exits? Do you have some kind of aversion to living in/near Silicon Valley?

1/29/07

,,

1/29/07

if you're not going to see the city much in either group i would go with the better prestige - which in this case is the best group on the street. I would only go CS if you hated san fran and loved nyc.

1/29/07

...

1/29/07

Finance exit opps are better but you will be a tech guy. I could be wrong, and hopefully someone else speaks up, but the best tech funds are near Silicon valley, but that doesn't mean there aren't tech funds here you could work for as well. As for which group they would prefer I can't say. But I do know that it's 2013 and no fund is going to focus its search only on the east coast and preclude a GS SF guy. Sounds like you can't go wrong either way.

Out of curiosity how different is the money in each offer? Is this for next summer?

1/29/07

Sorry can't go wrong either way meaning between GS SF and GS NYC or GS SF and CS NYC? I don't have an offer to GS NYC to be clear.

1/29/07

Are these conversations for real? Pick one, are you really going to change your mind based on what a bunch of anonymous people on a forum say?

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

1/29/07

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/goldman-tmt-...

More informed people than me give some advice in the link above.

1/29/07

...

1/29/07

BepBep12:

Are these conversations for real? Pick one, are you really going to change your mind based on what a bunch of anonymous people on a forum say?

What's wrong with getting input from other people? Who says his decision will be solely based on the opinions here. What are you whining about anyway, if he wants to hear the opinion of anonymous people on a forum then why do you care?

1/29/07

I would do GS TMT over both JPM & CS but that is me cos I have a personal preference for tech. How is your group selection looking like at JPM ?? If its FS/M & A/Lev Fin and you have a preference for NYC than you should probably select based on the people you met at both places. If its another group at JPM I would go GS.

1/29/07

...

1/29/07

Just stay in NYC as you already know the people there, all your options pretty much set you up for solid exit ops

1/29/07

Tristan:

BepBep12:

Are these conversations for real? Pick one, are you really going to change your mind based on what a bunch of anonymous people on a forum say?

What's wrong with getting input from other people? Who says his decision will be solely based on the opinions here. What are you whining about anyway, if he wants to hear the opinion of anonymous people on a forum then why do you care?

Fair point, I was being a douche.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

1/29/07

Unless you hate San Francisco, GS TMT is the better bet.

Yes NYC has better rep however GS has significantly more rep than CS therefore you would go with GS.

Basically, by being at Goldman in SF is significantly more prestigious than CS in NYC. Also GS TMT specifically is known as an elite group, so overall from a career standpoint you should be running towards that GS offer.

(Note you'll be working like a dog for a couple years either way so preference on city should not weigh heavily on your choice, bite the bullet even if you hate SF - opinion)

1/29/07

Don't have any advice to give since I'm an undergrad myself - but wouldn't SF actually be the superior place to be for TMT (at least the tech side of it) over NYC? How does GS TMT in SF compare to the group in NYC?

1/29/07

.

"I'm into, uh, well, murders and executions, mostly."

1/29/07

...

1/29/07

dreamer1992:

WallStreetPlayboys:

Unless you hate San Francisco, GS TMT is the better bet.

Yes NYC has better rep however GS has significantly more rep than CS therefore you would go with GS.

Basically, by being at Goldman in SF is significantly more prestigious than CS in NYC. Also GS TMT specifically is known as an elite group, so overall from a career standpoint you should be running towards that GS offer.

(Note you'll be working like a dog for a couple years either way so preference on city should not weigh heavily on your choice, bite the bullet even if you hate SF - opinion)

1. I will be taking JP NY over GS SF and not CS NY over GS SF

2. The group at JP will also be TMT, which is a top group

3. Most of the GS TMT prestige probably stems from their ny practice and not sf, I am guessing

4. Feels weird to work in a small regional office, after working in the headquarters in new york


if you want to be in the tech space, i'd take GS TMT and run, run, run.
1/29/07

PM me man

1/29/07

dreamer1992:
3. Most of the GS TMT prestige probably stems from their ny practice and not sf, I am guessing

You guessed wrong.

1/29/07

I agree with Nouveau Richie.

1/29/07

I agree with State of Trance's agreeing with Nouveau Richie.

Calm down.

1/29/07

Still would choose GS TMT.

You have it flipped, tech banking is generally run out of SF offices. Ie: tech banking in SF would be more elite than tech banking in NYC.

Either way JPM is not a bad place to be congrats on all of the offers

1/29/07

I am not one to post frequently but I can't resist. Several of the viewpoints on this thread are off base.

With regard to TMT I-banking, here is the reality:

- Prestige: GS > JPM > CS
- Culture: GS > CS > JPM
- GS = Consumate winner
- JPM = New kid on the block (due principally to the use of its balance sheet
- CS = Old kid on the block (lost momentum given talent departure)
- The epicenter of tech IB is SF, not NYC
- The epicenter of media/Telecom IB is NYC

Finally, in my judgement it is a tremendous mistake to select JPM over GS. There isn't an associate/analyst in JPM TMT that wouldn't depart for GS in a heartbeat. I know this because I work for JPM.

1/29/07

I agree GS all the way especially if you are in a top group like TMT/FIG.

1/29/07

^ yep.

1/29/07

.

"I'm into, uh, well, murders and executions, mostly."

1/17/07

Lazard, they own San Fran.

1/17/07

Lazard definitely owns San Fran with their tech group competing for group of the year with Thomas Weisel Partners and Wachovia.

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1/17/07
<span class=keyword_link><a href=//www.wallstreetoasis.com/finance-dictionary/what-is... rel=nofollow>BB</a></span>.MandA.3rdyear:

Lazard definitely owns San Fran with their tech group competing for group of the year with Thomas Weisel Partners and Wachovia.

LOL!

1/17/07

Heard of two analysts at GS in SF that landed $650K contracts for two years ($325 a year) with PE after 2 year stints at GS.

is that realistic?

1/17/07

I know the GS TMT analysts two are going to SLP and unless they got some kick ass offer I didn't get a 650k contract is not in the cards.

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1/17/07

GS Tech Principal Investing is probably the most desirable group an analyst could hope for in SF. Although the GS culture likes to take its pound of flesh and then some...

1/17/07

Thanks--is the culture really the same? I get the sense that CS SF is pretty laid-back. Is that a west-coast thing, or a CS thing?

1/17/07

CS LA and many groups at CS NY are intense as any bank out there

1/18/07
scotttwibell:

CS LA and many groups at CS NY are intense as any bank out there

OK. But is CS SF more laid-back than GS SF? Vice-versa? On par?

1/17/07

don't fuck around in SF

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1/17/07

since you are quite knowledgable about tech banking in SF, what is the next best bank after the big 3 in terms of deal flow, culture, and people? I have friend trying to decide between Lehman, JPM, and UBS. Thanks.

1/17/07

If i had to choose from the three I'd go: UBS, Lehman, JPM

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1/18/07

both firms care/are passionate about clients and have experience in industry.....understanind of company's technology? I doubt any banker cares much about that. You seem quite anal dude.

1/18/07
1/18/07
1/18/07

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1/18/07

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