Scared Shitless: How Did You Actually Learn How To Competently Build Financial Models
So I get that everyone's read the WSO guide on how to walk an interviewer through a DCF, LBO, etc., and most of us took classes in college where we've built simplified practiced models of one form or another. But I'm about to start work (investment analyst at a REIT) next week, and as far as I know all training is going to take place on the job. So my question is - how did you learn the technical skills of your job and how long did it take you to master the type of financial modeling you do? Were you baptized by fire? Slowly given more and more sophisticated projects to work through? Designated training week where you learned the fundamentals?
I'm scared as hell that I'm going to be thrown into the thick of things upon my start date and crash and burn. I'm a quick learner and I get the gist of financial modeling but when it comes to assembling one from scratch I just wouldn't really know where to start and how to get all of the proper inputs.
Are you referring to this thread? https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/investment-banking-interview-wal… If not, can I get a link please?
WSO Technical Interview Guide. For sale under Courses.
Sweet, thanks and good luck
It's fine. You'll learn on the job.
If you're really that concerned, go onto adventuresincre.com and watch the tutorial guides for every single model that they make.
Ask for materials to help you prepare before your start date?
The modeling itself is not rocket science, you'll be fine. If it's a REIT, there's a good chance you won't be doing anything truly 'from scratch' for quite a while. They generally have lots of templates and processes in place. It's a lot different than going to a boutique firm and basically re-inventing the wheel for the senior partners since the only person who knew excel was your predecessor who has left already.
The way to get ahead is take good notes when you first start so you are organized/remember things after someone explaining it to you one time. Then when you learn where all the files are, start looking through/reading the different models and materials you're given and deconstruct them on your own/come up with good questions to ask the senior analysts/associates training you. This seems like common sense but you would be surprised how many dumbshits there are that do not do this when they start.
Knowing where to go for what information just takes time. And sometimes this is what separates the good acquisition people from the bad ones if you are able to get asymmetric/better information than your competitors. This will make you lose some deals you shouldn't have won even if you wanted to, and will let you win some deals you wouldn't have otherwise.
From training materials at my first BB job, analysts weren't expected to be proficient / handle the industry specific modeling solo until ~12 months.
This was based on how they'd be ranked / compared to other analysts for comps.
Big proponent of dissecting an already made model. This is how I learned. That's how I learn best at everything though (ask my mother about her thoughts when she came home and saw the TV taken apart).
I imagine if you weren't asked to build a model from scratch during the interview you won't have to day 1 of a new job. Absorb everything you can and don't be afraid to ask questions. Different models will spit out different results for different reasons. Also, there's nothing wrong with being baptized by fire. A damned good way to learn, and learn fast.
How long would you stay it took you to get competent enough that you could actually lead the underwriting of a potential acquisitions deal?
It probably takes between 6-12 months to understand everything and be able to model out the scenarios. It takes probably another 6 to be able to do things really efficiently/close to perfect every time. It takes probably another 2-3 years in my opinion to really get savvy with respect to understanding capital needs, rent forecasts, expense estimates, etc. to the point where you are better at it than most. This also depends on how much ground you're covering. I started off in a single market, then gradually evolved to covering more ground. So while the subsequent markets each took less time for me to learn than the one before it, there's definitely an adjustment period. Takes time to understand the economic landscape, the major players, the properties themselves, local/state municipality impact and involvement, etc.
I don't think MonkeyWrench is off on those estimates (below). I'm in the 6-12 months time frame, and would be the first to admit I still have an incredible amount to learn, but also can tie that back into other posters thoughts since I haven't had the opportunity/exposure to everything yet.
Just focus on sound fundamentals at first. I was just reading a thread where people were debating proper inputs, outputs, leverage, different markets. It's all relative, but take it with a grain of salt. The more exposure you get, coupled with sound fundamentals, the better you'll be overall. On the surface IRR/Cap Rates/NPV (Insert Metric) could mean something different to every owner/operator/developer. Just make the case to back it up.
I wasn't going to say anything because I know I will get MS for it, but honestly a lot of this type of work/skillset will become obsolete in coming years. There is literally software that does everything for you.
Financial modeling skills shouldn't be a big concern. Learning how to pull data from software and analyze it is what will help you get ahead. Also learning various programming/querying languages and advanced analytics software is what every upcoming accounting/finance professional should be focused on.
Interesting take, but right now my primary concern is just this irrational fear that I won't learn how to model fast enough so they'll give me leasing and property management bitch work and then I'll get pigeon-holed with that type of work while the Wharton grads eat my lunch in Acquisitions because they came in the game with advanced modeling skills. ):
The software itself isn't the value add from the education, it's understanding how the math works and being able to look at a cash flow and know what is legit and what is BS. The actual modeling part of it is just a stepping stone to learning the financial metrics/market knowledge in my opinion. One thing that won't be automated (not for a very long time at least) is experiential information. For example, let's say you have two buildings right next to each other, same general size, specs, etc, except that one of them is has inferior loading/truck maneuverability to the other, and therefore should command a lower rent. But the algorithms (at least as they exist today) wouldn't have a binary way to code for this, and therefore you'd only be able to know this from touring the building or knowing the market well going into it.
I like your thought process on this. What kind of programming/querying languages would be most beneficial to start learning for someone on the analytical side of RE?
Python, SQL, maybe VBA imo.
Would also counter that learning to model with excel would help ascertain various comprehensions of analytic software/programming languages as it is essentially 'basic' logic compared to aforementioned programs.
Not sure why it put the comment down here...I was responding to Neutrino.
Every analyst starting out is in the same boat as you and every Repe God out there has been in your position at some point in time. Just make sure when you work on a project you really, really think about what you're doing and absorb the logic of it - even when they start you out with the lighter projects. Modeling is hypothetical in nature. You're building a model of what you think should happen according to certain assumptions. The model is the easy part, the hard part is understanding the value drivers and factors that affect those assumptions. There are a lot of analysts out there that are incredible with excel but can never be trusted to actually identify solid deals. Likewise there are many high level employees, making a killing that are embarrassingly unsophisticated with excel but understand exactly what to look for and avoid in a property. Don't let the modeling intimidate you, it's just a bunch of multiplication and division in a spreadsheat.
You'll get the hang of it, we all have faith in you
For a REIT you don’t need to shit your pants because all of your modeling is unlevered at the property level. If you are where you are now and can’t model property level CFs and then you add construction debt and JV waterfalls on top you probably should shit your pants. But just property level CFs at a REIT you’ll figure it out no problem.
Not sure exactly what you're saying. The REIT I work for is more like a Gramercy/JBG SMith type of REIT that does operate with leverage and does certain development projects, as well as JVs.
If you're at a shop that big they are going to train you at least to some extent... I don't know why you're stressing about this before you even get a lay of the land.
Well then "yikes"!
I remember when I started my current role and received a model from AM to update and I didn’t even know how to do a SUMIF..
You learn. Whether it’s from the RE technicals side to the actually Excel portion.
Manually suming each 12 month period so that you can provide annual figures for your boss. Fuck me I was inefficient as an intern.
What others have said is pretty much correct. The most important aspect of modeling is understanding the concepts that you're modeling. A beautifully formtatted model that is highly sensitized built by someone who doesn't understand their inputs is less useful than an entirely hard-coded model built by someone who is highly competent. At the same time, provided you understand your inputs and how they affect things, being competent at modeling will allow you to be more thoughtful about your inputs, as opposed to being intimidated by the task of building a particular model and/or uncertain if you're doing it right.
That said, IMO, being good at modeling is a good way to stand out to senior guys because most of them don't do much in Excel, so it's one of the few things you do better than they do (provided you understand the inputs).
The road map to being able to model well is:
1) Learn and understand the concepts you're modeling 2) Get your hands on progressively more complex models to get a feel as to why they're doing what they're doing and how they're organized 3) Start building simple A1 models 4) Make those models progressively more complex 5) Always try to identify areas in which your models are inefficient or not dynamic and try to figure out how to make it better
GetREFM. Throw down the $200-450 for student-rate courses on the topics you need. You’ll easily recoup that on the job and be quicker as well. An investment in yourself is the best you can make. (I don’t work for this company, but think they have the best material on modeling 101). Adventures in CRE is also good and free.
Let me just put this out. Hopefully all of us on this forum won’t have to use excel one day. That’s how you know “you’ve made it.” Most of the big guys in this industry probably did their math on the back of a napkin. They’re wheeler and dealers and making relationships. Crazy to think they don’t even use excel and make us do it.
I'm in similar boat as you (starting in about a month) and was just talking to my friend about his. He said for the first few weeks, he was hardly doing any actual work and mostly just being CC'd on emails containing different investment files so he could view them, learn from them and get an understanding of the type of work his team did on a day to day basis. After that it was mostly updating/formatting and then getting into spreading comps. After another few months he started actually inputting cash flows and playing around with sensitivity tables. He's a year in now and is just getting to the point where he might be asked to head the charge on underwriting an investment, but even now makes plenty of mistakes and often has help from his seniors in the process.
Let me give you the REAL answer.
You will always want to err on the side of simplicity (as opposed to complexity)
How do I project Sales? 2.0% Growth, if anyone asks (they wont) its Long Term Inflation, goy. EBITDA? Straight up % margin from Sales. Think you need a Depreciation Waterfall? WRONG! % of Sales.
What bout balance sheet accounts? WC can be a real *****. Good news. All you do is divide SALES by 365.
Take it from someone who got f*cked hard trying to be accurate/correct in his first year. When someone gives you an assignment do the 1) MOST SIMPLE VERSION of the task, 2) AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, which leaves time for 3) PERFECT EXECUTION.
This is the formula to success. The additional effort you spend on 1 compounds and hurts the rest.
I actually consider if you ever were unable expected to produce your unit out of scrape while in the occupation interview you simply will not have got to working day 1 on the innovative occupation. Take up anything you might and do not worry so that you can check with problems. The latest models of is going to throw outside several success to get several explanations. As well, nothing at all is improper by using remaining baptized by way of shoot. Your darned surperb way to educate yourself, plus master speedy.
This may be the most grammatically incorrect post of 2018, congrats.
Need to learn Transaction Modeling and Fast (Originally Posted: 10/23/2011)
So there is a job that I have two very solid networking connects for, that was just posted on my career services site. Its a BB. I'm an Econ major and under qualifications it mentions Cash Flow and Transaction modeling
I've taught myself how to do a DCF, or at least walk through one as of now, but what do I need to learn for transaction modeling? Is there any resource where I can learn this quickly?
Appreciate any help.
I doubt they will expect you to know more than the basics of DCF modelling, but can't hurt to look into the basics of accretion/dilution analysis.
Any resources for that? I don't even 100% know what transaction modeling would entail.
This might help:
http://macabacus.com/merger-model/accretion-dilution
All models are inspired by existing models - so saying from scratch is a bit of a stretch. We recently built the model for a bank's floating rate program. The model took inspiration (functionality, style, metrics, etc.) from at least four existing models for different execution strategies.
That being said, per MonkeyWrench it is not rocket science. The way to differentiate your models is understanding what the end user/key decision maker is looking for and how they like to assess/see the models.
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