It happens, it always does. I even considered doing it, but after a few years at my firm there is one thing I hate and try to identify in every intern I encounter - if they're trying to leverage an offer to move laterally. If so, I do everything (and have succeeded on multiple occassions) to prevent them from getting an offer.
No one respects it. Don't mention it. I post this simply because I know it won't deter you, but if you want the offer you'll need to leverage, don't ever let it be known.
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You sound like a big barrel of fun.
That's a compliment. I don't try to have fun at work, I try to crush what I get staffed on and look forward to getting a nice check come comp season. Why the fuck would I want to give an offer to a kid who isn't coming back?
Who do I want to give offers to? The kid I want to return and work beside me.
I don't know you, and I already fucking hate you.
Hold this monkey shit.
As a senior analyst you don't give offers, son. You follow your MD like a pup. That's what you do.
lol "senior analyst" ok bro
Duplicate.
Haha you sound like a loser. You are a junior employee and trying to shaft a kid who's doing what you probably would have done had you been in his position (2-3 years ago)?
I was in his position, I had better accelerated super day offers than most kids land, and yup, I shaft every last one of them. Don't for a second think I'm the only one.
You are definitely a loser. Shafting kids for no reason except to get a power high. Besides, why do you care? Your gonna leave the firm in a few years anyways.
He won't leave the firm. Can't make it to the buyside that one
Instead of making the experience valuable enough that they consider staying, you intentionally screw them over. If someone performs poorly and it is obvious from the start that they want to leave then it’s understandable maybe, but why go out of your way so much?
It is on them to impress me enough to earn a seat, not on me to entice them to stay.
I posted this to help the community that helped me when I was in college. That's all.
Here's the logic - if my intern gets an offer, laterals elsewhere, and I want an analyst, I need to request headcount - pain in the ass and not always successful - and then go through endless interviews and bureaucracy to get someone in the door.
I now have 2 analysts under me, this isn't my problem in terms of having to deal with the expanded workload anymore, but my mindset is not isolated. I don't know of anyone in a position to make a decision on extending an offer or not in my division that doesn't use this as a filter.
Think of it this way - you're a first year analyst, you can hire the kid who is never coming back and get stuck on the bottom of the totem pole for another year, or you can extend an offer to the less talented kid that is coming in the door in 10 months. What do you choose?
"you can hire a kid who is never coming back and get stuck on the bottom of the totem pole for another year"
Any decent bank will be able to hire new grads and you shouldn't worry about being on the bottom of the totem pole lol
Here's my view:
If you're going to try and leverage an offer, I don't give a shit - just don't be an ass about it and do it intelligently. It's obvious when people are always on their phones taking personal calls and whatnot and not putting in 100%.
Had a former intern who gave it his all and made sure to always prioritize the work that I had for him. Super nice guy too and didn't act like he was above the firm or anything. We actually talked about his next moves and I told him to do what he thought would be best for him. Now he's at an EB and seemingly crushing it - don't hold it against him at all.
I'm on the same page as you here. Haven't seen a kid like that yet and would happily go out of my way to help them. Who I am referring are the kids namedropping lateraling to Moelis, Evercore, etc; to brag to their fellow interns.
+SB because I had someone very similar to you at the firm I interned at. Still keep in contact with him to this day.
Funny, cuz I try to identify vile analysts like you and make sure that they don't get promoted....
On a side thought, any mature employer or manager should realize that their employees have many choices in life and at any moment may lateral or move up to another company because they are individual human beings with their own wishes and desires and not your property. Your job as a manager is to create an environment where nobody wants to leave, not to destroy anyone's hopes of leaving.
This is good management, Antiaverage is going to have a rude awakening when he or she grows up and realizes this is what's important to building a sustainable, successful career with quality colleagues
Focus your energy on more important things
Haha what a loser dude, and this is coming from a guy that dresses up as Chuck E Cheeses mouse costume drunk and scares little kids for fun.
The takeaway from this thread for people trying to lateral, especially SAs, is that you shouldn't tell anyone at your current firm that you are trying to lateral, including fellow colleagues/interns, managers, etc. unless you are very sure that they can keep your secret. If you tell one wrong person about lateraling, he/she could try to screw you over by telling everyone else and making them believe that you don't want to work here. I've heard stories about interns doing that to other interns out of spite or jealousy.
Though I can't speak from an employer's perspective, it does look bad if someone is telling everyone that they want to lateral because you are implying that you don't want to work at the firm. Why would the team hire someone who wants to leave the firm as soon as they get another opportunity anyways?
I personally know a guy who interned for GS TMT, but was pretty open about wanting to move to PE as soon as possible. Word spread so far that the managers questioned him about it during the mid-summer review. He ultimately didn't end up getting the offer, but he was smart enough to get a very well-known PE firm for FT. I don't know how he pulled it off, but most times, if you don't get an offer, it's not a great ending.
No hard feelings in business, I leverage everything I have except for my mother.
This is a very weird point of view to have and is pretty short sighted. If the summer intern trying to lateral is otherwise a smart/nice person, why wouldn't you want to develop a positive relationship? The high finance world is so small. He or she may go on to do great things and could help YOU out in the future. Sure, right now you might be a "senior analyst" but in 5 or 10 years your relative compensation/seniority may be different.
Can’t believe how butt hurt everyone is about this guy. What OP is talking about is standard practice in the industry. I challenge any upcoming interns to talk openly about lateraling during their internship and see where it gets you. Just like any job search, it should be done with total secrecy.
Not sure why this is even controversial. When I used to lead recruiting for my group, the entire decision process boiled down to two variables: (1) how did the intern perform; and (2) what is the probability that he or she accepts our offer. There was no way we would would give an offer to someone whom we thought would go elsewhere. If a candidate took our offer and then decided to go elsewhere after shopping it around, it really screws us over from a business perspective because it ties up the offer and then we are stuck with whoever is left at that point.
And that's not even counting the other downside: If the person can't leverage your offer he (or she) IS definitely coming back, but instead of being excited and happy, and will be moping around for two years, badmouthing the firm to other analysts, and basically resenting the bank that actually extended the offer for not being [fill in the blank more prestigious firm].
These types of people are the bad apples in the class because they decrease the morale of the other analysts and may lead others to want to lateral as well.
Just out of curiosity here, besides explicitly saying to others they want to lateral, how can you measure the probability of them not accepting the group's offer? Would you ever not give an offer to a candidate because they perform too well and could have offers elsewhere?
It's not hard to tell. If someone doesn't give me reason to believe that they want to be elsewhere, then I give them the benefit of the doubt. I always wondered what goes on in the heads of the interns who talk about working elsewhere. That would be like trying to get a girl to date you but then telling her friends that you think another girl is better. It doesn't happen often, because most people are smarter than that, but those guys make my life easy and are the easiest to ding -- even if they are a superstar -- because we would rather give the offer to someone who is not as good technically but would give his left nut to be there full-time. Hard skills like modeling can be easily learned on the job (obviously, we would prefer to hire people who can hit the ground running), but attitude and enthusiasm for the job and firm/group you are in can't be taught.
Bozo. Hope you get a life sentence in banking.
God forbid an intern use an internship to advance their career.
"Senior" Analyst... okay LOL
Get the associate promo (if you'll ever) before you start clowning on analysts trying to lateral. Obviously feeling the pressure from the younger guns being in a better position than you
Not quite sure why a bunch of interns and students are shitting on this guy. He isn't communicating effectively and definitely comes across as arrogant, but he has a point and it's a pretty important one. If you want a return offer, show your firm that you want to be there and never act like you're above them or anything you're doing. It is definitely a big turn-off and a big reason qualified kids don't get return offers. And by the way, if you want to lateral or leverage your return, you need to get a fucking return. Remember that. The kid who blew his internship at Citi isn't getting looks from us and will probably end up working at a no-name boutique or a WM shop.
Agree with you here. I don't think any SA/interns should be mouthing off acting like the firm they're at isn't meaningful to them and that they are above any work assigned. The most important thing during that summer is securing a return offer - if you have intentions other than returning, keep them to yourself or only speak privately to those who you trust/will back you.
However, I have to say the way the OP comes off is far and away from how I would expect any FT analyst to act. At an associate level, I can understand since that's where real decisions are made regarding the class, staffing, etc. but analysts going out of their way to "sabotage" SAs is just distasteful and truly reflects poorly on the culture (as evident by the responses above). If I was an SA again meeting this guy and he gives me the "work isn't supposed to be fun" line, I'm already thinking about lateraling out of the group or finding another analyst to work under because you know you're going no where with this guy.
To be clear, I'm not talking about giving offers to trust fund kids saying they'll lateral to GS since their dad works there. For a substantial portion, I feel that most SAs lateral for a better working group/more interesting industry and location (obviously the name plays a part but these are good reasons to leave).
Eat shit shrimp dick
go get a happy ending massage and relieve all that stress, maybe get that chip off your shoulder you fucking clown.
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