Undergrad: Duke vs. NYU Stern

MrNaive's picture
Rank: Chimp | banana points 10

Hi,

I've recently been accepted to both schools and am having a hard time deciding. I've heard that Duke students do surprisingly well in the financial sector from a friend who goes there. I plan to do a dual major in math and economics. However, I know that compared to NYU Stern there will be less intern opportunities at Duke. Would it still be possible to get one as a freshman/sophomore?

I know at Stern it is very possible to get a great internship right off the bat as a freshman, which is really appealing. I'm also a lot more interested in studying finance than economics at this point. But...it's so hard to turn down Duke.

Any ideas?
Thanks a ton

Comments (189)

Apr 2, 2008

personally, id go duke. both great schools, both can get you into wall st. i just think you will likely live in NYC for years after school, why not spend some time outside of the city and in the south.

Apr 2, 2008

DUKE
no question. amazing school and its no prob to get into finance.

Apr 2, 2008

I think you're right about the internship opportunities possibly being stronger at NYU. I go to college in Los Angeles and as a result have had the opportunity to intern at several boutique investment banks and am now going to do banking at a BB. I probably wouldn't have had as many of these opportunities if I went to somewhere like Michigan for example.

However, I personally know of tons of people who have gone to Duke and gotten into banking. I don't think you would have any trouble at all getting great internships and work experience going there. It's a very strong target school with a great alumni network according to people I know who are going or have gone to Duke.

So, ultimately I think you will be successful going to either school. I would pick what school to go to based off of other things - mainly how happy you think you would be at either one.

I personally would pick Duke. I think it combines academia with a great social life. The women there are supposed to be great and it looks like an overall great experience. That's just my two cents.

Apr 2, 2008

Thanks for the input. I'm definitely leaning towards Duke right now. I'm confused as to why I have never heard of Duke being mentioned as a popular school targetted by the BBs. I keep hearing the same old Wharton/Stern/HYPS and other ivies being mentioned. Judging by your responses, I'm guessing that Duke students have a pretty good chance of getting a job on Wall Street as well?

For me now, it's basically a question of whether its more enjoyable to study econ or finance. I'm in AP Econonomics right now, and for all its worth at this very low level, I don't particularly enjoy it. I think I'd rather be working with real monetary figures in the financial sector than spend hours shifting Aggregate Demand curves out.
Can anyone speak to econ vs. finance?

Aug 27, 2009

-

Free Consultation

Vantage Point MBA's clients are accepted to the top MBA programs at a 3x higher rate than the average acceptance rates. Request a consultation with their team to learn how they can help you gain admission to your dream schools. Learn more.

Apr 2, 2008

Econ is very different from finance. IMO, econ is extremely boring, whereas finance is actually interesting. Nonetheless, it's a trade-off; you're going to have to suffer through econ if you want to attend a better school, as most top schools don't even offer finance. I've taken classes in both (had to take finance classes at the graduate-level as my school also does not offer finance) and I've always been much more intrigued and done significantly better in the finance classes. I think Duke will get you further in the long run.

Apr 2, 2008

go to duke. no contest. whatsoever.

Apr 2, 2008

at stern, you'll have good potential access to employers during the year, and all the big banks recruit there. that being said, i think that the educational prestige at duke is considerably higher and if there's one thing i've learned, recruiting at all the top schools is good no matter how geographically proximal they are to nyc. frankly, i think the benefits of going to school in nyc are overrated and college life is about so much more than recruiting.

i'd take duke over NYU any day of the week, and would have no second thoughts about it whatsoever.

Apr 2, 2008

If u like finance and b. school pick ND; its better than Michigan or Stern; o and the double major between finance and econ is the real deal! only 136 credits

Apr 2, 2008

I'd go to Duke, simply because you'll likely have a better time there. You have all your life to live in a big city, but you really only get one chance to experience a college town lifestyle. You'll thank yourself 10+ years later. The key difference between going to a school in an urban center (like NYU) or in a college town is the sense of community. You will far more likely forge stronger ties with your alma mater at Duke than NYU -- it's the difference in culture between the schools, and those ties aren't just of practical benefit (i.e. your alum network) but also will likely give you a more vivid college experience beyond academics and recruiting.

As for careers and internships, you'll do fine either way. I hope you don't see college as purely a transactional experience where it's merely just a means to jobs, internships and careers.

The one thing to keep in mind is that unless you're from a wealthy family, being a broke-ass student in NYC sucks big time. It's not a city geared towards students - it's a playground for those who can afford it (working professionals and the wealthy). And if you're underage in NYC, it's even worse. Of course, if you're the son of an industry magnate, then what I say is irrelevant.

If I were in your position and with the benefit of hindsight, I would go to Duke over NYU, no question.

Alex Chu

Apr 2, 2008

If you want to live in the city, NYU. If you want to live in the south, Duke. Really just depends on whether or not you want to study finance too.

Apr 2, 2008

I can't tell you which school provides a better education but in terms of getting a job, I see A LOT more analysts out from NYU than Duke.

You'll do fine out of either..

Apr 2, 2008

I think anytime you ask a this school vs. that school question the people who post should include whether they want to either school or not. Obviously people who went to each school is going to talk up their respective school

Aug 27, 2009
stevenbn:

I think anytime you ask a this school vs. that school question the people who post should include whether they want to either school or not. Obviously people who went to each school is going to talk up their respective school

that's not true; i said go to duke.

Apr 2, 2008

I don't go to Duke, met many from Duke, and would suggest you to go to Duke. My superday was full of kids from elite universities, and amongst the Stanford and Ivy kids, the Duke students really stood out. I really enjoyed talking to them. Down to earth people who speak VERY fondly of their school. They also mention how the kids are very accepting of each other and, despite the high caliber of students that the institution attracts, it surprisingly lacks a cut-throat culture.

Apr 2, 2008

i didn't go to duke but considered applying there, and declined to apply to nyu

Apr 2, 2008

Hey, I'm Canadian and didn't apply to any US college. But I did go to college in a "college town" - and having met and interacted with boatloads of people who went to US colleges over the years, it seems like those who went to schools with a strong sense of community (which happens to be mostly schools in college towns) tended to have a much stronger connection to their alma mater, and tended to speak much more fondly of their experiences in college - whether it was Duke, Michigan, UVA, UT-Austin, etc. Can't say the same thing for one of the biggest feeders into Wall Street - Wharton undergrad. I've met my fair share of those who graduated from Wharton undergrad (and obviously when I was there for grad school - in fact, the MBAs were a little wary of the Wharton undergrads because they were just way too tightly wound) -- and while many of them would talk about how it was great for their career, I don't know if many actually enjoyed it as much as say, even those who were Penn undergrads or other Ivies.

Wharton undergrad is probably the quintessential example of a school that is intense and is probably THE best place to get a job on Wall Street (or consulting or whatever), but it's at the cost of a pretty dismal existence - when I was there in grad school, I sort of felt sorry for them at times because they seemed to take everything and themselves so seriously ("noooo!!!! if I don't get that Goldman internship I will die!!! arghhh!!!!!" or "if I don't bump my GPA up by 0.1, Morgan Stanley won't hire me and I will have to gulp take that middle market IB job!! What will my classmates think? NOOO!!!!"), they never seemed to really enjoy their college experience, and quite a number were so driven to an unhealthy extreme that it's probably one of the last places I would ever recommend my future kids to go.

And that tends to be the tradeoff anyhow with most colleges - the most prestigious schools tend to be more stressful and less friendly (i.e. Harvard undergrad is not exactly known as a lovey-dovey place, Wharton undergrad is cut throat, MIT isn't exactly a happening campus, etc. -- and if there is a stereotype with folks from these top colleges is that while many are extremely bright, they tend to be less street smart and more sheltered) -- and the less exclusive schools may be more fun and may give you a more well rounded "life" experience -- but there are a few that do have the best of both.

Gunning for careers and recruiting may be important, but it's also about the experience itself -- chances are, the college kid wanting banking/private equity so badly won't stay in it anyhow beyond a few years. Or to even use the members of this board as an example, I'm willing to bet that within 5 years, at least half of you guys won't even be in financial services (let alone banking/pe/vc) for whatever reason. And within 10 years most of you would've left - not because you're rich enough to retire, but leaving for various reasons specific to the individual in order to do other things.

Alex Chu

Apr 2, 2008

Thanks to everyone for the incredibly deep insight you have all shared. I'm definitely pulled more towards the Duke side, since job placement doesn't seem like it'll be much of a problem if I go there.

I'm gonna go read some intro books on finance so I can decide if its really the thing for me. Honestly though, no matter how much I'll love Duke, I dont think I will dig being an Econ major haha...

Apr 3, 2008

Go find the career services website at Duke and look at top employers.
I'm fairly positive that for the last three years, Goldman was either 1 or 2. Important to note that this includes EVERY graduate, not just the econ.

"I'm not sure what the four 9's do, but the ace, I think, is pretty high."

Apr 3, 2008

Lol dude Duke is amazing for finance. I met so many while working as a summer analyst and so many at my Super Days...plus the major banks are amongst is top employers (especially Goldman Sachs) like BlueHorseShoe mentioned.

They have a deep alumni bench on Wall Street which definitely helps as well.

Aug 2, 2008

Hey man. I thought I'd share my perspective on this, since I'm a current rising junior econ major at Duke. First, econ won't be that bad. The first two years have been pretty theory-filled, yeah, but I escaped with a 3.8 without killing myself.. in fact, I've messed around kind of a lot. Anyway I'm taking 2 econ classes next semester, Global Capital Markets and Asset Pricing & Risk Management, taught by a former managing director at the London Goldman office (with a BS and MS in Math from Oxford, MBA from Wharton, and PHD in finance from Duke). So it's not like you'll just be learning econ theory for four years. And yeah, all the bulge bracket ibanks are on campus... I personally know of three RISING JUNIORS who already have offers for Goldman for NEXT summer (thru their Spring break program or w/e). BTW, I'm also going to the Duke in NY program in the Spring--- Google it and check out the class listings. Anyway, my point is that if you want to go into finance/banking out of duke, you'll have the resources to do so..

Apr 2, 2008

i agree that duke is definitely the better choice.

though from a statistically standpoint, there are more NYU kids that go into banking every year... but i'd still go to duke in a heartbeat.

Aug 4, 2008

Go to Duke. You'll be limited at Stern. I'll owe too much money after graduation to do anything besides working at a bank.

Mar 9, 2009

Also banks don't expect Duke students to have as deep finance knowledge as NYU stern kids given it's still considered liberal arts. Therefore, you might actually be at an advantage during interviews if you actually are well-prepared because interviewers don't expect as much as start.

Mar 14, 2010

Go to NYU. Don't study economics like an average liberal arts student. :)

Mar 15, 2010

I think we can kill this thread. This kid made his decision two years ago.

Mar 15, 2010

Go to Duke, transfer to Harvard

=========================================
We are excited to formally extend to you an offer to join Bank of Ameria

    • 1
    • 1
Mar 15, 2010

Easy decision - Duke. While NYU has the NYC location, Duke is greater in terms of alumni network, overall education, and prestige. And beyond academics, Duke offers a college experience that NYU simply cannot match.

    • 1
    • 9
Mar 15, 2010

^ You're an 18-19 year old trying to give advice to another 18 year old on where he should be spending the next 4 years of his life at and what type of post-graduation professional opportunities it might lead him to. You are literally in the exact same situation as him. You haven't seen anything, literally. You might have heard or read about experiences, but you have never been there. This is literally like the blind leading the blind. We don't need more high school seniors posting crap about college, prestige, and even job opportunities on WSO. This just dilutes the quality of resources here on the site.

OP, you mentioned that you are from the city, and you are most comfortable with it. Before considering anything else, if prestige and eventually the school you are associated with after graduation (and probably for life) is very important to you, go with Duke no doubt. If you even think you might have even a shred of regret or doubt by choosing Stern, choose Duke. Its risk averse, proven, the name speaks for itself, and it opens doors. I myself decided to go this route because I knew that I would regret not choosing the safer option.

That said, if you think you can live with yourself taking the "lesser" option, NYU Stern is an excellent choice. It is not the conventional college experience, but it really does provide an experience no place else can provide (besides from say arguably Columbia or lesser NYC schools like Fordham). Most NYU kids who end up hating the experience just cannot bear with living in the city and accepting its lifestyle a little bit earlier. But if like you said, you are comfortable with it, I think you have nothing to lose and tons to gain. Location is hugely important and NYC really ends up making you a go getter. You decide what you want to experience, whether its internships or activities you do outside of school. I know of people at Stern and Columbia interning with megafund (Apollo, Carlyle, etc) investing arms (non-PE) throughout the school year as well as top HFs (7 bn+) in their respective sectors. These opportunities are rare, but surely only exists for Stern/Columbia kids during the school year because of their location. A Stern kid even interned with Soros Fund Management during the school year if I'm not mistaken a few years back. Again, everything you experience you have to go for, unlike the regular college experience where things are usually served on a platter for you and things are "on-campus,"

To answer your question: No, it would not be a huge mistake to go to Stern over Duke. I would argue that it wouldn't be a mistake at all. It would be a choice. I assure you Stern is a target school, and if you want banking and are competent, you WILL find opportunities. (You can search for yourself on WSO which firms recruit at which schools) If its not available on OCR, carve out the opportunity for yourself through networking because you can leverage your location, unlike most other schools. In terms of Finance and banking, Stern does not lose to Duke in any way (it does for consulting - Duke has MBB recruiting). Stern has an alumni network across the street in literally every corner of Finance if you search hard enough (MBA included). If you are heavily set on working in Finance and IBD, then Stern is an excellent choice. In case you didn't know, Stern's Finance program has consistently been ranked Top 2-3 right after Wharton each year (if thats what you want to study). I did all this research for myself because I had similar choices, and wanted to know everything about my options I had at that time in order to not regret my choice.

With all that said, Stern is not perfect. NYU is far from perfect. Duke likewise. They are different and provide inherently different experiences. You are the only one to judge for yourself which type of these experiences you want and what type of person you are. If you are somewhat risk averse like me and dislike regret, go with Duke. If you are a go getter and is already accustomed to the city, which will make you able to thrive and adapt faster than your classmates, Stern is not a bad choice and I would say actually a great alternative. You're in a great position, so be thankful. Good luck with your choice.

    • 2
Mar 15, 2010

If you are solely committed to finance, just know that the difference in finance recruiting at Duke and Stern is negligible - both are strong target schools, banks hire a consistent number of kids from both schools every year. Duke may have a slight edge in terms of general prestige, but Stern isn't exactly a no-name either. In terms of prestige, think Columbia vs. Cornell - sure Columbia is viewed as more prestigious but Cornell isn't exactly a no-name either. Recruiting wise between Duke and Stern, they're both pretty much at the same level.

But the real question is how are you so sure if you're really interested in finance? Because if you change your mind in the middle and decide that you want to pursue consulting (or anything non-finance/accounting related) then Stern really loses out to Duke in this scenario. I've heard a lot of stories from my NYU friends who tell me how there are several students (esp. girls) who realize that they want to pursue consulting instead of banking only to realize that *gasp* barely any consulting firms recruit at NYU (or Stern for that matter). I've heard that MBB, Oliver Wyman, Partheon do not recruit there and If I'm not mistaken the "best" consulting firm that does actual OCR there is Deloitte S&O (NYU people correct me if I'm wrong).

So you should definitely consider the possibility that your interests may change down the line. In that regard, I'd recommend choosing Duke over Stern, since Duke has better pull for non-finance careers and even if you were to pursue finance, you have just as a good opportunity coming out of Duke, as to Stern.

    • 1
Mar 15, 2010

Personally, I'd choose Duke. While I don't think recruiting-wise its that big of a difference, the Sternies are intense little fuckers who eat, breath and sleep banking internships. You could very well go to Stern and either fall right into that trap and not have any fun whatsoever or not fall into that trap and get dominated by these soulless wall street worshiping robot classmates. Duke is probably easier competition-wise in that regard... easier as in less intense and more well rounded classmates. Supporting the above statement is the fact that I've met numerous ex-Sternies who tell me their biggest regret was being so laser focused on their post-UG career during UG because (a) it would have happened anyway and (b) they missed out on a lot. I have not met a single Dukie who claims to have missed out on anything. At all.

I would also suggest getting a change of scenery from NYC since you live here and will likely live here post-UG. Get a different experience/perspective, you won't have that chance again. Lastly, I LOLed at the possibility of someone choose Stern over anything else because it would be more affordable.

    • 1
Mar 15, 2010
Marcus_Halberstram:

Personally, I'd choose Duke. While I don't think recruiting-wise its that big of a difference, the Sternies are intense little fuckers who eat, breath and sleep banking internships. You could very well go to Stern and either fall right into that trap and not have any fun whatsoever or not fall into that trap and get dominated by these soulless wall street worshiping robot classmates.

This is spot on. On the other hand, Duke is in the South, so pros and cons I guess...the one thing I'll add about NYU is that given the NYC location and especially some other world famous schools they have like Tisch, Courant, etc you could meet a wide variety of interesting people if you make an effort. But chances are the banking disease that plagues most Sternies will be too overwhelming. Add to that the lack of campus, and I'd probably go with Duke here. In terms of finance, you can teach yourself the basics (NPV, DCF, etc) in like an hour, so you should be fine there. Just read a few vault guides.

Mar 15, 2010

i think i threw up in my mouth a little when you referenced the "vault guides"...sorry, this isn't 2001 and we dominate Vault in finance. ;-)

i would also pick Duke, but my bias is I'm an econ major / liberal arts education...but I also think it's important to realize that it's really hard to know for sure what you want at 17 or 18 years old. Duke is a better option for anything outside finance, and you could easily make the argument that it's superior for finance recruiting as well (especially with the fact that you'll be in NYC each summer and can network / intern to your hearts content)...

hope to see you at the WSO Conference this summer: http://www.eventbrite.com/e/wall-street-oasis-conf...

Good luck, and congrats! 2 great choices.
-Patrick

Mar 15, 2010

For some reason, I have thought that people's comments on everyone at Stern being finance-crazed were a little hyperbolic. Yet, judging from this thread and others, it seems that might not be the case. Does this finance obsession mean that Stern is actually cutthroat (as in, people are trying to sabotage each other), or that it's just really intense (as other schools with grade deflation/curves might be).

    • 1
    • 1
Aug 4, 2008

The latter. And honestly, the intensity is a bit exaggerated. Most classes had a cap 35% A or A-, which isn't abnormal.

But, I would agree with the post above me about working. You are expected to do internships during the school year if you want to be competitive for recruiting.

Mar 15, 2010

Is this what you and your classmates did? How difficult is to balance coursework and year round internships?
Also, I am already quite comfortable with doing DCFs, calculating NPVs, and reading financial statements on 10-Ks. Do you all think that with some self-studying, I could become familiar with the technical stuff required (so as to not even require a formal business education for undergrad)?

Thanks to all that have contributed so far. Your insights are very valuable to me, as this is a decision which entails a significant investment of time and money.

Mar 15, 2010
Marcus_Halberstram:

the Sternies are intense little fuckers who eat, breath and sleep banking internships

This needs to be bumped because it's so true.

Mar 15, 2010

I did NYU Stern undergrad, I definitely recommend Duke.
1) Stern is filled with people with really shitty personalities. I ended up hanging out mostly with CAS (college of arts and science kids) since most of Stern lacked social skills and had sociopathic qualities.
2) Stern may (or may not) send more people to IB, but thats because literally EVERYONE is applying to it. At Duke, you'll have less competition.
3) You'll have the opportunity to change your mind. Stern is a one trick pony with finance. If you decide you want to do consulting, you're out of luck.
4) Being in NYC is a DISADVANTAGE. You're pretty much expected to do during the year internships to get a shot at a decent summer internship. They don't take more kids from Stern because of all the "networking" opportunities, they just make them do more stuff.
5) Reputation. Stern is a bitch to get into, but most people default to the rank of NYU, not the rank of Stern (which has much harder admission criteria), when looking at your brand after graduation.

    • 1
Aug 4, 2008

Yes, it was extremely common to be working part-time during the school year and I would say the balance is probably the toughest part, not necessarily the coursework or curve. And yes, in hindsight, you can be sufficient in what you need to know for banking recruiting through self study and if you're an econ major you aren't necessarily held to the same standards as a finance/accounting major.

Not to say I didn't learn anything being at Stern - I was very well prepared for my first job out of college.

    • 1
Mar 15, 2010

I'd take what Opsdude says with a grain of salt - let's be honest, only the top bucket of kids at every school will land IB jobs, and there's going to be the bitter ones who think they're better or "different" but don't make the cut.

If I were you, I'd choose Duke. It's more prestigious, and the passion for IB will make you stand out more. Duke also has a huge advantage in that it's also open to significantly better recruiting for MBB. With that said, Stern ended up being perfect for me, but it's also because I had no idea what I wanted to do going into college. Stern pressures you onto a very narrow rail, and for me, the competitive environment was more good than bad. Without the pressure, I honestly would've lazed at home for the first summer and I almost certainly wouldn't have taken the IB path. In addition, the finance education is just leagues above anything that Duke will provide you, and at Duke you'll definitely have to be a self-starter (which you seem to be).

The raw placement figures for BB's are similar at Duke and Stern, but the level of interest at Stern is a multiple higher. On the flip side, a lot more boutiques recruit at Stern than at Duke. The finance education at Stern crushes Duke, but the interviewing process for Duke students tends to be less rigorous to make up for that. The social life and diversity of kids in my view, is undoubtedly better at Duke. Perhaps surprisingly though, the course load at Stern for the average finance major is way easier and more relevant than the Duke econ track. Especially for more advanced electives, there's very little homework and outside time requirements. If you're a skilled writer with good quant skills, you'll find yourself riding a 3.7+ at Stern with very little effort. On the flip side, if you're not, Stern might be a living hell no matter how much work you put in.

Mar 15, 2010

It is surprising to hear that Stern coursework could be easier to do well in. Are the stories of mid 90s grades being curved to B+s really exaggerated then? I feel that I would satisfy both the writing and quant criteria for success at Stern, and would definitely find the coursework more to my liking. Could anyone here speak of the difficulty involved with the Duke econ curriculum?

I really wish now that I would have had a more clear cut decision.

Mar 15, 2010
randomwso:

I really wish now that I would have had a more clear cut decision.

Not a single person in this thread has suggested you pick Stern. Most people go there because they really wanted to go to undergrad business school but didn't get into Wharton.

Mar 15, 2010

Here, the general sentiment seems to be that Duke would be preferable. However, I am a bit torn on leaving the financial capital of the world, and sacrificing all the year-round internships/networking advantages. Would you say that its common for people outside of NYC to come in and do internships during the summer after freshman and sophomore years? Or are those only earned through networking?

Mar 15, 2010

I think you're missing the point. In any target school's on-campus recruiting, what matters is not necessarily what you have on paper but what you bring to the table relative to your peers. You just being able to do all this stuff in the "financial capital of the world" is not an advantage in OCR on its own if all of your peers have the same opportunities. Conversely for not being able to do it as much and being a disadvantage.

Mar 15, 2010

So you're basically saying that I would be able to distinguish myself better at Duke? From my own research and other posters, it seems that Duke Economics is not easy at all, so it might be hard to achieve the high GPAs required to stand out during OCR. Conversely, at Stern, I feel like I might be able to bring together the optimal combination of internships and GPAs better than some of my peers (for various reasons, main ones being that I do have a few family contacts already and that I won't be struggling with making the adjustment to NYC life).

Mar 15, 2010
randomwso:

So you're basically saying that I would be able to distinguish myself better at Duke?

Yes, assuming you're smart and work hard. And you might have a boatload of fun while you're at it instead of turning into a zombie.

Mar 15, 2010

Well, I do think I am smart and work hard haha. I will try to collect more information on Duke's curriculum and grading policies. Thanks for all the help so far, and any further insights will of course be appreciated.

Mar 15, 2010

You guys are missing the point here, its not about the grading curve, its about the personality of the students at Stern vs. Duke. When you think of the typical sycophantic investment banking analyst, Stern and Wharton are disproportionately over represented.

The inclination to do an internship during the academic term isn't about being located in NY, its about the type of personality that is itching to get whatever type of leg-up they can in order to get ahead. I haven't seen statistics on this, but I'm willing to bet its far more common at Stern than it is Columbia.

Its the same personalities that are in the office until all hours of the night/weekend just for the hell of it. What ironic is that while you may think this level of hyper-drive/focus would make you top 2% at everything you do, these people generally don't do all that much better than the rest in banking. So if you think being at NYU and trying to cultivate this mentality will get you ahead, it won't. If anything you're better off trying to breed it out by going to a more bro-y school like Duke.

    • 1
    • 1
Mar 15, 2010
Mar 15, 2010
Marcus_Halberstram:

You guys are missing the point here, its not about the grading curve, its about the personality of the students at Stern vs. Duke. When you think of the typical sycophantic investment banking analyst, Stern and Wharton are disproportionately over represented.

The inclination to do an internship during the academic term isn't about being located in NY, its about the type of personality that is itching to get whatever type of leg-up they can in order to get ahead. I haven't seen statistics on this, but I'm willing to bet its far more common at Stern than it is Columbia.

Its the same personalities that are in the office until all hours of the night/weekend just for the hell of it. What ironic is that while you may think this level of hyper-drive/focus would make you top 2% at everything you do, these people generally don't do all that much better than the rest in banking. So if you think being at NYU and trying to cultivate this mentality will get you ahead, it won't. If anything you're better off trying to breed it out by going to a more bro-y school like Duke.

Your comments are spot on.

Yep, its about personalities. Everything I've read and researched says Duke will make you an overall better person, and at the end of the day, finance or not, its about being a complete person. If you look at corporate leadership, even at IB's, almost all of the top guys are all around good people. You don't see the one-dimensional finance dude who spent 10 years of weekends at the office directing and leading the company - let alone inspiring anyone.

Mar 15, 2010

Within a narrow band, for the target schools, banks are going to take X number of kids from duke and Y number of kids from Stern. Stern makes you do more shit to stay up with your classmates, but they are still going to take the same number of Stern kids regardless. That's why Duke is a better choice, because you don't have to do all the crap you have to do in Stern.

    • 1
Mar 15, 2010

And isn't Y greater than X here? Or is that just a misconception?
Also, I still am going to return to NYC during the summers and will probably have the opportunity to network at boutiques and Asset Management companies. Might that be a reasonable trade-off for not actually attending college in NYC?

Mar 15, 2010

Why worry about boutiques? Just go to duke, get good grades, have fun, spend a few months learning basic valuation and models skills, and get a BB job.

Mar 15, 2010

I would choose Duke. Super strong and loyal alum base with ample representation on the Street. At my firm, the Duke MDs are super loyal and always go to recruit a couple Duke kids for their teams.

Mar 15, 2010

Pretty easy choice to go with Duke here. Better social life + less intense, combined with better recruiting

Mar 15, 2010

It seems that most are saying that Duke has better OCR opportunities. Is there any way for me to find some data on this? As an unrelated question, would you all consider that Duke is roughly equivalent to Dartmouth (I didn't get in, but Dartmouth is a school I would definitely pick over Stern) for the issue at hand?
Again, I really can't thank this community enough for the help.

Mar 15, 2010
randomwso:

It seems that most are saying that Duke has better OCR opportunities. Is there any way for me to find some data on this? As an unrelated question, would you all consider that Duke is roughly equivalent to Dartmouth (I didn't get in, but Dartmouth is a school I would definitely pick over Stern) for the issue at hand?

Again, I really can't thank this community enough for the help.

The reason people say Duke has better OCR is because there is far less competition than Stern. Everyone in Stern wants IB, which isn't the same for Duke. I'd consider Dartmouth ahead of Duke, but I'm not really sure - I always hear about how great Dartmouth alumni are in terms of helping out current students.

Mar 15, 2010

In terms of absolute numbers then, am I correct in assuming that Stern and Duke are roughly equal, but Duke is more advantageous because less people desire IBD?

Mar 15, 2010
randomwso:

As an unrelated question, would you all consider that Duke is roughly equivalent to Dartmouth

yes

Mar 15, 2010
randomwso:

It seems that most are saying that Duke has better OCR opportunities. Is there any way for me to find some data on this? As an unrelated question, would you all consider that Duke is roughly equivalent to Dartmouth (I didn't get in, but Dartmouth is a school I would definitely pick over Stern) for the issue at hand?

Again, I really can't thank this community enough for the help.

Duke plainly speaking, does not have better IBD OCR opportunities (a least as of 2012-2013). Previously, I think DB was one of the only IB firm to recruit at Duke but not vice versa. Also the MO recruitment as well as boutique recruitment (outside of Peter J Solomon), was pretty much non-existent. However, there are two important factors to consider. While Stern has a slight edge in raw placement, I'd speculate that Duke's finance-oriented body is much smaller. Add that to the fact that Duke actually has substantial MBB placement, and the fact that Duke has no real finance educational track, I think that a motivated self-starter at Duke will have an edge more at Duke than at Stern.

A major downside might be the fact that Duke's econ curriculum is highly academic and frankly pretty challenging while completely irrelevant to what bankers actually do. Stern's curriculum is pragmatic, and while the curves deflate gpa's, the courses themselves are both less demanding but more relevant.

Mar 15, 2010

You're saying that DB was the only to recruit at Duke but not at Stern? Yet all the other BBs did recruit at both? Also, could you please refer me to some sources where this kind of information may be found?

Mar 15, 2010
randomwso:

You're saying that DB was the only to recruit at Duke but not at Stern? Yet all the other BBs did recruit at both? Also, could you please refer me to some sources where this kind of information may be found?

Pretty much all the BB's recruit at both schools. By technical terms, Stern was a semi-target for DB, UBS, and BAML as there was no OCR for those firms in my year nor the years preceding, but all three (especially the latter two) regularly interview and hire people on an annual basis. The definition is a little bit shifty here because OCR is expensive and for some firms it's just easier to directly reach out to kids especially if they're already in the city.

I reckon both schools send in the range of 35-50 kids to IBD at BB's each year. The major difference is at boutiques, where Duke has no discernible presence except at a select few. This is not because of prestige but mostly because boutiques don't have the resources to really hash out a finance education.

But as mentioned many times before, it's less about the raw figures, and more about %wantIBD/%getIBD. If you want a source, call up an alumni or current student.

Mar 15, 2010
Sav:

The major difference is at boutiques, where Duke has no discernible presence except at a select few. This is not because of prestige but mostly because boutiques don't have the resources to really hash out a finance education.

The main reason you don't see too many non-target Ivey kids at boutiques is because the class size at a boutique might be 4-10 kids vs. a BB bank it'll be a multiple of that. If you're extending several offers per school (you need to extend a decent amount of offers when you're doing OCR to maintain your relationship with the career center), the boutiques aren't going to go through the time sink of interview kids at 10 different schools to extend 10 offers... they'll likely go to 3-ish schools... and if you're picking 3 schools to interview at, you'll go to the top 3 schools out there. BBs on the other hand may extend 30-50 offers. They can very easily recruit at 12-15 schools... which generally include most of the ivies and the top non-ivies like Duke, UVA, maybe Michigan.

Mar 15, 2010

Do you think that I could use my vacation time in NYC, plus existing contacts, to also have an opportunity for recruitment at the boutiques? I only say this because then that would give me the same "safety net" that Stern provides, without sacrificing all the upside that Duke gives.

Mar 15, 2010
Marcus_Halberstram:
Sav:

The major difference is at boutiques, where Duke has no discernible presence except at a select few. This is not because of prestige but mostly because boutiques don't have the resources to really hash out a finance education.

The main reason you don't see too many non-target Ivey kids at boutiques is because the class size at a boutique might be 4-10 kids vs. a BB bank it'll be a multiple of that. If you're extending several offers per school (you need to extend a decent amount of offers when you're doing OCR to maintain your relationship with the career center), the boutiques aren't going to go through the time sink of interview kids at 10 different schools to extend 10 offers... they'll likely go to 3-ish schools... and if you're picking 3 schools to interview at, you'll go to the top 3 schools out there. BBs on the other hand may extend 30-50 offers. They can very easily recruit at 12-15 schools... which generally include most of the ivies and the top non-ivies like Duke, UVA, maybe Michigan.

True, except that they don't pick the "top 3 schools" - which would be some mix of HYPSW, but have a tendency to pick schools with strong finance programs so they can skip out on the finance/accounting education. Look through Lazard, Evercore, Greenhill, Moelis and the likes and I'm sure you'll find some favoritism for Wharton, UVA, and Stern in both the interview process and the interview selection.

Mar 15, 2010

Stern absolutely has better OCR IBD placement than Duke. It's a matter of if you think it's because Duke kids don't want/try or because firms don't recruit much from Duke.

Mar 15, 2010

Could you please point to where you get this information from?

Mar 15, 2010

Two great options, congratulations and I don't think there's a wrong choice. I would choose Duke for the college atmosphere

Aug 4, 2008

I can't comment about OCR at Duke, but I graduated in 2010 (which wasn't a shitty recruiting year, but not great either) with three offers for front office roles. I actually did pretty badly with OCR, but made up for it with my internships and having opportunities available because I was in NYC. That's just my own experience, though. If you're at the bottom of the curve at Stern, you'll have a tough time with recruiting.

Mar 15, 2010

Everyone, including Stern grads, is telling you to go to Duke. I get that you wanna make an informed decision reinforced by some empirical evidence, but sometimes you gotta bet on everyone's hunch. Go to Duke.

Mar 15, 2010

I see, yet I get the feeling that many people are weighing in the college experience factor greater than I would. As far as experience is concerned, I don't think anything could beat living in NYC and enjoying the comfort of my own home. However, if Duke's career prospects and prestige really have such value, I would be prepared to make the adjustment.

Mar 15, 2010

"Let me live with my parents instead of going away to an awesome party school and have a blast like everyone else my age is doing because nothing beats the comfort of my own home."

Jesus. I retract my previous statement. You, my friend, are definitely Stern material.

    • 2
Mar 15, 2010
Marcus_Halberstram:

"Let me live with my parents instead of going away to an awesome party school and have a blast like everyone else my age is doing because nothing beats the comfort of my own home."

Jesus. I retract my previous statement. You, my friend, are definitely Stern material.

Your mom doing your laundry means you have a few more minutes to network and practice DCFs. Nothing beats that fabric softener smell right after you've come back from a sick networking sesh.

Mar 15, 2010

I didn't realize that living in NYC and having a great time were mutually exclusive.
Also, career prospects are important to me probably more so than they are for other people. I don't want to discuss anything personal, but my reasons are more meaningful than "I want to make a lot of money."

Mar 15, 2010

The beauty of this forum is that it is anonymous so you can discus anything personal without giving much away But to the point of your question which after reading the thread I feel you will fit in at Stern just right. And you really do wanna go to Stern so don't listen to anyone and do what you really want to do.

Best Response
Mar 15, 2010

I can unequivocally assure you that living at home -- even if home = NYC -- will be a markedly lesser experience than going away to school... and I'm not just talking about partying... I'm talking about school, personal development, intellectual development, life experiences, new friends, a new stage in your life etc. When you go to college its a new phase in your life. If you're planning on living at home while going to college, its no more a new stage in your life than High School to Middle School... you're just changing venues.

Its not about the partying and its not about the career prospects. Its about the range/quality of life experiences and personal development.

It strikes me that you started this thread with your mind already made up and were hoping people would give you some ammunition to feel better about your decision... with the overwhelming response being otherwise, that didn't quite go as you planned and for good reason: because Duke is the far superior choice.

If you're unwilling to step outside your comfort zone, it doesn't matter if you go to Duke, Stern, Harvard or Oxford... you'll be just like the other Sternies who spin their wheels relishing every minute of it and end up in the same place as their peers who were coasting all the while.

    • 4
    • 1
Mar 15, 2010

Life begins at the end of your comfort zone.

Mar 15, 2010

Why is this a discussion? It should be a no-brainer Duke is a far better school and the easy choice. It would be a different discussion if we were comparing Duke to say UVA or UNC (ie slightly lesser school but potential for in state tuition that could save lots of money), but NYU is also absurdly expensive. Go Duke and don't look back- nothing against NYU, but it just is not as high a quality school.

Edit: Missed that you live in NYC and would save on dorm costs- still don't think this is significant enough to make a difference though.

Mar 15, 2010

Well, I'm actually not leaning towards Stern. In fact, in conversations with my friends and family, most have said that I seem to be inclined towards Duke. If Duke is the far superior choice, then I will definitely go there. I just would like some objective facts that justify that decision. By creating this topic, my intention was to see what makes sense for the long-term, and I understand that everyone unanimously agrees that Duke is the better one of the two.

Mar 15, 2010
randomwso:

Well, I'm actually not leaning towards Stern. In fact, in conversations with my friends and family, most have said that I seem to be inclined towards Duke. If Duke is the far superior choice, then I will definitely go there. I just would like some objective facts that justify that decision. By creating this topic, my intention was to see what makes sense for the long-term, and I understand that everyone unanimously agrees that Duke is the better one of the two.

There are a lot of objective facts throughout this thread. If that's the case, it sounds like you're going to Duke. Congrats.

However, I don't think you are going to fit in at Duke:

randomwso:

I see, yet I get the feeling that many people are weighing in the college experience factor greater than I would. As far as experience is concerned, I don't think anything could beat living in NYC and enjoying the comfort of my own home.

And

randomwso:

I didn't realize that living in NYC and having a great time were mutually exclusive.
Also, career prospects are important to me probably more so than they are for other people. I don't want to discuss anything personal, but my reasons are more meaningful than "I want to make a lot of money."

Both of those statements seem pretty out of line and contrary to the Duke "mentality", if you will. People at Duke are there for a great MBA education, but most importantly the "college experience" that you indicate isn't as important to you. Go to Duke's website, it's all right there.

Let's be real, OP will fit in nicely with the Stern kids.

Mar 15, 2010

What hard facts were you expecting exactly? There are none.

In terms of how many people went to Tier 1/Tier 2 banking opportunities? That needs to be taken in the context of how many people were vying for those seats and what they did to get them. If Texas Christian University only places 3 kids on Wall Street every year, but on average only 2 kids try to get those seats that's a superior program for placement than say NYU that may place 40 every year out of 500 vying for those positions. If Wharton places 80 kids into banking each year, out of 600 that are vying for those positions, but they had to get a face tattoo in order to qualify for an interview... it would only be a superior choice to Stern if you're open to a face tattoo.

My point is that there are way too many factors at play, not to mention that there is really no way of knowing how many people tried to get those positions and what they did to get an offer... i.e., if you were counting on an X and a Y to weigh on a scale, you're not going to find that here.

Mar 15, 2010

Ya I recant my recommendation too, Stern is PERFECT for you Randomwso.I don't think you'd fit in at a school with normal people.

Mar 15, 2010

Didn't you say you went to Stern? I guess it says a lot if the alumni are bad-mouthing their own school. I guess Duke it is, although I'll be able to form a better opinion after I go to the Blue Devil Days program.
Really surprised that people got the impression of me that they did; all the people that I have spoken to IRL seem to think I would much rather go to Duke.

Mar 15, 2010

I hate Duke with unbridled passion (for reasons unrelated to campus environment/academic quality - it's their stupid fuckin basketball program that always beats mine). I would still choose Duke 100 times out of 100. The quality of life will be better, the people will be more interesting, the athletics will be great (it feels like pulling teeth to say this but you can't beat Cameron Indoor for college basketball), the girls are better looking and the weather is better.

Duke is more well-rounded, well-respected as a whole, and will get you to the same spot career-wise (if you so desire) as NYU-Stern will.

Obligatory FUCK DUKE!

"You rarely have time for everything you want in this life, so you need to make choices. And hopefully your choices can come from a deep sense of who you are." - Mister Rogers

Mar 15, 2010

Is this a joke? Duke's alumni network is at no comparison against NYU. Yes, I know, Ivy League, blah blah blah. But to be honest, Duke is at the lower end of Ivy League and I can hardly see why the school can be any attractive. If there is a super special reason makes you really want to go with Duke, NYU is the choice.

    • 2
    • 6
Mar 15, 2010
Oxon:

Is this a joke? Duke's alumni network is at no comparison against NYU. Yes, I know, Ivy League, blah blah blah. But to be honest, Duke is at the lower end of Ivy League and I can hardly see why the school can be any attractive. If there is a super special reason makes you really want to go with Duke, NYU is the choice.

Sorry friend, I have to go now because...I'm due back on the planet Earth.

Mar 15, 2010
Oxon:

Is this a joke? Duke's alumni network is at no comparison against NYU. Yes, I know, Ivy League, blah blah blah. But to be honest, Duke is at the lower end of Ivy League and I can hardly see why the school can be any attractive. If there is a super special reason makes you really want to go with Duke, NYU is the choice.

I monkey shitted on you and now I'm claiming it.

Mar 15, 2010

I'm glad you let it out since you are so full of it

    • 4
Mar 15, 2010

Not sure if idiot, or troll. Duke is not Ivy, shit for brains.

Mar 15, 2010

Duke isn't even in the Ivy League...

Also, to those who have provided their expert psychoanalysis: I am not interested in NYU so I can continue to be pampered at home. Like I said earlier, there are a few personal matters I don't want to discuss, but wanting to stay in NYC and getting a good job is not for selfish reasons alone.

However, since Duke seems to be the better option in everyone's minds, and since my parents are very supportive of the decision, I am leaning heavily towards it. Thanks to all who've contributed; further comments and insights are always welcome.

Mar 15, 2010

Another thing I'll add: I've lived in a crowded city environment my whole life so the idea of seeing a different environment is becoming more appealing. Don't get me wrong: if there's one place I would live for the rest of my life, it would be NYC. But, maybe a change of scenery and pace will do me some good.

Mar 15, 2010

I still don't understand how people here are essentially calling Duke a party school. It really isn't. Sure, it's more fun than probably Stern or Wharton are, but it's nothing like UVA or UMich.

In any case, if money isn't a factor, I would go to Duke over Stern. But it isn't because Duke is super easy or fun, it's just the better university to attend. Besides, you might choose to not do banking in the end, and Duke would be the best option for literally anything else.

    • 1
Mar 15, 2010

Moelis, Centerview, PJSC, and Blackstone all recruit at Duke as far as boutiques go.

    • 2
Mar 15, 2010

That's even more encouraging to hear. Thanks for the information. I'll consider contacting Duke alumni at Blackstone, and maybe ask a few questions.

Mar 15, 2010

I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned how ugly the girls at NYU are.

Mar 15, 2010
DickFuld:

I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned how ugly the girls at NYU are.

That's because nobody cares. It's New York City and Parson's is right next door. You also might not realize all the hot chicks in NC are at UNC.

Mar 15, 2010
Sav:
DickFuld:

I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned how ugly the girls at NYU are.

That's because nobody cares. It's New York City and Parson's is right next door. You also might not realize all the hot chicks in NC are at UNC.

I know there's one and her name is Belle Knox. If you're into that sort of thing.

Mar 15, 2010

A sure way to guarantee yourself an STD.

Mar 15, 2010
CorpFinanceGuy:

I know there's one and her name is Belle Knox. If you're into that sort of thing.

There's some Huffington Post article titled Duke Porn Star...lolololol. Classic.

Mar 15, 2010
Going Concern:
CorpFinanceGuy:

I know there's one and her name is Belle Knox. If you're into that sort of thing.

There's some Huffington Post article titled Duke Porn Star...lolololol. Classic.

She is not even that pretty. The only reason she receives attention is because a) she attends Duke and b) she "claims" to do porn so she can pay tuition.

A good friend attends Duke and says her Dad is a Cardiovascular Surgeon, so she is not poor.

Mar 15, 2010

They're not ugly, Mr. Fuld. They're just crazy.

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

Mar 15, 2010

I'd probably take Duke. Both are great schools but I think Duke would be better because more fun, better sports, weather, tighter knit community, more flexibility if you decide you don't want to do finance, and less competition. From what I hear, at Stern everyone is after the same thing so it makes it tougher to stand out. At Duke you'll still get great recruiting and you could just be a decent Econ student and get a great job. At MS last summer Duke has the 2nd most summer analysts and was only behind Wharton.

    • 1
Mar 15, 2010

LOL MS? How many were at The Goldman Sachs?

Mar 15, 2010
TargetoIBD:

LOL MS? How many were at The Goldman Sachs?

You're still prospective, so I'm not sure if you should be getting into a dick measuring contest on banking prestige.

Mar 15, 2010

my opinion is that if you are really passionate about finance, do Stern over Duke Econ.

as some others have already alluded, Econ at any top school is very theoretical, not practical at all, and Econ is actually a tougher subject in which to get a top gpa in, due to harsh curves, more difficult / abstract exams, etc.

My opinion is that you will perform better and enjoy your academic experience a lot more if you study something that you are interested in & something that is directly applicable / practical to your desired field (finance & accounting), when compared to studying something else that is highly theoretical and not much of use in your intended industry (Econ).

obviously, Duke Econ would be a far superior choice over some random non-target State U finance program. but NYU Stern is no slouch for I-banking, and it would enable you to study something that is both practical and more enjoyable for 4 years of your college experience.

At the end of the day, whichever school you end up going, you will likely need to sport 3.7+ GPA if you want to be competitive for I-banking. For that, I think Stern finance would be easier to attain, compared to Duke Econ. (due to the fact that Econ is a tougher major in itself, has harsher curves at top schools, and you might not do as well if you study something that doesn't interest you)

Mar 15, 2010
Rejected Monkey:

my opinion is that if you are really passionate about finance, do Stern over Duke Econ.

as some others have already alluded, Econ at any top school is very theoretical, not practical at all, and Econ is actually a tougher subject in which to get a top gpa in, due to harsh curves, more difficult / abstract exams, etc.

My opinion is that you will perform better and enjoy your academic experience a lot more if you study something that you are interested in & something that is directly applicable / practical to your desired field (finance & accounting), when compared to studying something else that is highly theoretical and not much of use in your intended industry (Econ).

obviously, Duke Econ would be a far superior choice over some random non-target State U finance program. but NYU Stern is no slouch for I-banking, and it would enable you to study something that is both practical and more enjoyable for 4 years of your college experience.

At the end of the day, whichever school you end up going, you will likely need to sport 3.7+ GPA if you want to be competitive for I-banking. For that, I think Stern finance would be easier to attain, compared to Duke Econ. (due to the fact that Econ is a tougher major in itself, has harsher curves at top schools, and you might not do as well if you study something that doesn't interest you)

Stern has an obnoxious curve, especially for finance classes (only 10% A, 10% A-)... so I completely disagree with you here.

    • 1
    • 2
Mar 15, 2010

This is horrible advice.

Mar 15, 2010

Man, I wish WSO wasn't becoming college confidential.

The discussion should have started and ended with: "you can get into banking from either school, choose the culture/campus you enjoy more given the cost of education constraint."

Anything else is just about the same as arguing if raisins or craisins taste better.

Mar 15, 2010

Not really. There are far more factors involved, and I personally am very grateful that so many have offered their thoughts. You could easily have avoided this thread, and left it to be forgotten.

Mar 15, 2010

Just take what people say with the knowledge that they have their own individual biases. A lot of statements have been offered as truths, when they are more akin to an opinion.

I just see this as an opportunity for people to argue about the prestige of their alma maters, which is lame. My two cents. Apologies if I hurt your feelings.

Mar 15, 2010

I'd go with NYC. being in the city for networking is priceless.

Mar 15, 2010

Stern places better in finance than every school except Harvard & Wharton. Also not everyone at Stern is trying to do IBD - there are many people that want to do consulting, marketing, actuarial science, and even accounting and also many that want to do equity research, Asset Management, and S&T. The stereotype is that for 70% of people at least one of their majors/concentrations is finance since that is what Stern is known for. The consulting point is true: The Big 4 (KPMG, Deloitte, EY, PwC) consulting arms all very heavily recruit at Stern. Also Olver Wyman, Accenture and few other well known consulting firms recruit at NYU as well. Out of the MBB, only BCG posts online on the job boards or does resume drops.

Now for finance, every almost every BB, MM, and boutique in NYC pretty much recruits at Stern for banking, AM, ER, S&T (all front office positions). It's not even a question that Stern beats out Duke in finance placement by a considerable margin. Take a look on LinkedIN will also show that at almost every BB/Top Boutique Stern is around #2-3 in terms raw number of recruits usually after Harvard & Wharton and at some of them Stern is #1. Maybe this is a recent phenomenon, but It is really not uncommon to see many freshman and sophomores pulling down front-office positions as well.

Irrespective of that point the benefit that Stern students have is the ability to get jobs that other students at other universities don't usually have the opportunity to get whether b/c the firm does not usually recruit undergrads or the firm only has relationships with 1 or 2 undergrad schools. This is where the benefit of being in NYC is realized. You get to expand your network and seek out jobs not normally available to others. Past seniors have went top Hedge Funds/Asset Managers such as Citadel, D.E. Shaw, Moore Capital Management, Nueberger Berman, Millennium Partners etc. Some of these places won't normally take undergrads but Stern students have landed investment team positions within these firms and there people that go to great private equity/hedge funds like these every year.

Now as for social life- I don't know why everyone knocks on NYU. It is honestly one of the greatest experiences you could have. It's not really a campus so you get much more intimate with your friends and really build very strong friendships - going out to eat at restaurants, bars, clubs - the nightlife is amazing! A lot of people feel the transition between college and real world life very depressing but because most of your friends are going to be in the city anyway and you are in your home environment the transition will feel very comfortable. Then there is the opportunity travel so much. There are so many international programs and courses abroad, including a completely free spring break abroad for Stern students their junior year. I don't think any other school provides that opportunity.

    • 2
Mar 15, 2010

Somebody's been sippin the kool aid

Mar 15, 2010

Super-defensive and insecure about your college choice much? Stern sucks, thats fairly well known, even by those who have gone there -- it's a shame you can't be honest with yourself. Its academically a great school and NYC is a fantastic place to spend your formative years... but if its banking you want and you have access to any of the other Tier 2 schools (which is what Stern is Wall Street-wise)... you're better off going there over Stern as it has much more to offer. Everyone knows Stern MBA is > Stern UG, and Stern MBA isn't even a top 10 program.

As for the Sternies that go into a finance sector other than Banking / S&T, 98 out of 100 times its because they couldn't get into the other two and everyone knows it.

Also, aren't you the same clown who previously claimed that "Stern places better on Wall Street than any other school, especially Wharton" ?

    • 2
    • 2
Mar 15, 2010

While I agree there are a lot of issues with Stern, I think you've been a bit too harsh. I've seen more stern kids than Duke kids in NYC FO gigs, especially at the top firms like EVR and BX. Sternies are fucking dbags 30% of the time though. But I think you already mentioned that.

Mar 15, 2010
Marcus_Halberstram:

Everyone knows Stern MBA is > Stern UG, and Stern MBA isn't even a top 10 program.

lol what. Other way around bro...

Mar 15, 2010
Marcus_Halberstram:

Super-defensive and insecure about your college choice much? Stern sucks, thats fairly well known, even by those who have gone there -- it's a shame you can't be honest with yourself.

No dog in this fight, but skimming through this thread, you have been trashing NYU far more than anyone has been overly "defensive" about it.

    • 2
Mar 15, 2010

If I've said anything wrong let me know

Mar 15, 2010

From what I heard, Duke was the second most represented school in last year's intern class at MS, and at DB, they had 10 kids sign for FT in banking alone. I think they are behind Harvard at DB in terms of representation.

Mar 15, 2010

Stern then b school at stern.

"Two Stolis on the rocks."

Mar 15, 2010

Just to reiterate what everyone here has said, Duke has a better reputation overall, is more fun, you will have a college campus and won't be expected to work during the school year. Duke is a target school and will get IBD recruiting plus more. I'd choose duke.

Mar 15, 2010

A Sternie providing my 2 cents. Firstly, stop worrying about IB recruiting, you basically get the SAME access to opportunities at both campuses (there are people from Stern & Duke going to places like GS TMT, BX M&A/R&R and Evercore M&A). Given that you will get access to these opps at either school, it really boils down to how capable you are, as only the top few from both schools get these gigs. Note: it doesn't really matter how well each school places over the other in terms of head count because you have to be among the top candidate pool. What you should think about is what you want your college experience to be over the next 4 years.

Now, to clarify some of the points made about Stern: Stern DOES NOT beat out Duke in finance placement, what it does is give you ACCESS to opportunities, and if you're good enough, you'll get the job (as many of my friends have proven so). And it is uncommon to see freshmen and sophomores getting FO gigs (you'll have to be a female or diversity candidate most of the time, but there are rare occasions that a non-diversity male gets the gig) - it's typically ~5 kids each year (1 to GS, 1 to JPM, a couple to other bulges like Citi). And the point about Stern being at the heart of NYC and Sternies being able to do internships 24/7, that is indeed true and most kids do intern during the school year. But the truth is, most kids don't do much real work at boutique firms and only a handful of kids really shine because they busted their asses off at work and fought for their chances to do real work. As for working part-time at places like Moore and Citadel, those are MO/BO stuff via the career center unless you've gotten them through family connections (which several of my schoolmates have done so in the past). To be fair, you still get really solid FO opportunities from time to time, such as Houlihan Lokey corporate finance Dept and OrbiMed (world's largest healthcare hedge fund), during the school year but they are limited. The point I'm trying to make is that it's up to you to make full use of the opportunities at Stern. Don't expect to come in and think you're going to get internships handed to you on a silver platter. What I can promise you is that if you bust your ass off, work really hard in school and at your internship gig, you'll definitely go places - I know several seniors who have gone to multi-billion hedge funds and MM PE firms out of undergrad and they probably know more than most first year analysts at bulge bracket banks because they worked extraordinarily hard during their 4 years at school. As for people complaining about Stern curve and the competitive nature, here's my take on this: most classes in Stern are not hard, with the exception of some upper-level finance classes. If you want to be intellectually challenged, you can always petition to take MBA-level classes as a senior, and you'll get to learn from professors like Damodaran. As for competition, if you can't handle it, you're probably not suited for banking anyway since you'll need to have a reasonably high GPA and prior internships to get into a bulge bracket bank.

Hope this helps in your decision and clarifies some of the misconceptions about Stern. Don't be intimidated by the stereotypical Sternie (who exists around school) because if you're smart and hungry to learn, you'll find like-minded people (as I have) who will accelerate your learning journey. Most of the finance stuff I have learned from school were not from attending classes, but from talking to a select group of my friends about their thoughts on the market and asking seniors about technical questions. As long as you grab every opportunity, work hard and smart, you'll not have a problem getting a banking gig be it at Duke or Stern. Remember, the firm is looking for an individual with personality for the job, not the school name on your resume. If you think this way, I'm confident you'll do well be it whatever school you go to.

    • 1
Mar 15, 2010

My bank had several Duke analysts, 0 Stern analysts.

Free Consultation

Vantage Point MBA's clients are accepted to the top MBA programs at a 3x higher rate than the average acceptance rates. Request a consultation with their team to learn how they can help you gain admission to your dream schools. Learn more.

Mar 15, 2010

what you should be asking is: which school has hotter girls..

Mar 15, 2010

.

Mar 15, 2010

NYU may have hotter girls Duke, but UNC is really close to Duke and it have hotter girls than Duke and NYU combined so Duke wins that contest.

Mar 15, 2010

If you choose NYU over Duke....I wouldn't even know where to begin in terms of disappointment. NYU doesn't even have a fucking campus, just a bunch buildings in the city. No sports, just a bunch of hipsters and theater kids. The sports at Duke are awesome, basketball, lax, and...thats pretty much it. Gorgeous campus, 15 trip to Chapel Hill to creep on the UNC girls.

NYU will benefit from sheer proximity but Duke is one of the, if not the top non-Ivy target so you wont be at any disadvantage. You will get your finance classes at Stern but get an SA and buy a
Breaking Into Wall Street: Financial Modeling Training Program from Patrick and you'll be up to speed.

If I met two people and one said "I went to NYU" I think "Better not let any gay cracks slip, just to be safe," someone says Duke I think "This lucky bastard got breath the same air as Coach K everyday,"

Mar 15, 2010

If you're set on finance, go to Stern jeez, all the clubs, organizations, classes are geared toward this, all i heard to seniors talk about is about their investment banking/sales & trading/Asset Management internship at [insert bulge bracket bank] here.

Although I do admit, Stern kids have super inferiority complex cuz the name NYU sucks dick

Mar 15, 2010

Damn Stringer, what did NYU ever do to you? Sounds like a serious grudge you have going there. The original poster didn't ask anything remotely close to "What school you prefer?", yet you went on some sort of angry NYU-hating tirade there.

I truthfully don't understand why this message board has such a serious issue with NYU Stern. For some reason we have a sort of monstrous, douchebag image here. Every school has their assholes but on the whole I don't think we're that bad. If you couldn't tell I'm currently attending Stern but I feel like I'm just a regular guy with the same goals of being successful.

On to answering the original question. For all class you take within Stern, they follow the "Stern Curve". This basically allocates 25% A's, 40% B's, and everybody else C's or lower. So as you can see it's real easy to mess around and get a B, but getting a solid A is much more difficult. There definitely isn't such a thing as an easy A class within Stern. I don't know anything about Duke's system so somebody else is gonna have to take over that one.

Mar 15, 2010
cry me a reaver:

Damn Stringer, what did NYU ever do to you? Sounds like a serious grudge you have going there. The original poster didn't ask anything remotely close to "What school you prefer?", yet you went on some sort of angry NYU-hating tirade there.

I truthfully don't understand why this message board has such a serious issue with NYU Stern. For some reason we have a sort of monstrous, douchebag image here. Every school has their assholes but on the whole I don't think we're that bad. If you couldn't tell I'm currently attending Stern but I feel like I'm just a regular guy with the same goals of being successful.

On to answering the original question. For all class you take within Stern, they follow the "Stern Curve". This basically allocates 25% A's, 40% B's, and everybody else C's or lower. So as you can see it's real easy to mess around and get a B, but getting a solid A is much more difficult. There definitely isn't such a thing as an easy A class within Stern. I don't know anything about Duke's system so somebody else is gonna have to take over that one.

Thanks for the ACTUAL insight, that's helpful to the op. I really don't have a problem w/ NYU, it's a quality school, and there's not a snowballs chance in hell I could've gotten in there from HS. So kudos to you, and yes Stern is a IBanking factory.

However made two trips up there to see friends. One was to watch the NFC championship game with Giants, in the city. My buddy wanted to go to one of the 1mm badass sports bars to check out the game. But his (average) gf hated sports and wanted to watch the fucking Emmy's with ever other kid who went to NYU instead. So needless to say I said fuck you to NYU and went and watched the game by myself.

I just could never imagine not having an actual campus, being in a frat, sports games, stuff like that.

Mar 15, 2010

Go to NYU

1) You are already in the finance capital of the world
2) You can intern like a beast
3) NYU pumps out finance kids like Hostess makes Twinkies

And most importantly....

Duke chicks will fuck you and make a powerpoint about how even ugly chicks can bang sports players.

Mar 15, 2010
Anthony .:

Go to NYU

1) You are already in the finance capital of the world
2) You can intern like a beast
3) NYU pumps out finance kids like Hostess makes Twinkies

And most importantly....

Duke chicks will fuck you and make a powerpoint about how even ugly chicks can bang sports players.

1) You can intern like a beast at Duke.
2) Duke has incredible recruiting.
3) Being in NYC doesn't matter. You will get an internship/job being at a target.
4) If you want your social circle to be composed of exclusively wannabe-i bankers, Stern is for you.
5) Duke is more fun than Stern/NYU. Yes NYC is sick. You will have a few decades to enjoy that. You will be in college for 4 years. Might as well go to a real college with a real college scene.

And most importantly....

6) Any guy that hasn't fucked an ugly chick hasn't gone drinking enough.

Mar 15, 2010

1.) You can intern during the school year and network whenever the fuck you want - every major firm and boutique is 2 - 4 subway stations away.

2.) I personally don't really like NYU in general but if there is one thing I can't deny, STERN has HARDCORE recruiting, to the point where it's not even funny.

3.) There is NO QUESTION whether you will get a job in the financial services coming out of STERN. The ONLY QUESTION is, will your starting salary be $50k or $100k?

3.) NYC = Clubbing / food / times square / MoMA. But that's not always for everyone. If you're more into college life and frat life etc, then yea NYU ain't so good with that.

Key point.) NYU Stern girls are in general ugly as fuck, they're usually these asian girls with pimples and shit (mostly chinese) and I'd rather jack myself off than bang one of these oriental bitches. That's when you go out hunting for the REGULAR NYU chicks or other schoolsi n the NYC area - they're usually rich as hell and dress like sluts = perfect.

Mar 15, 2010

u serious? the only business school you take over duke is Wharton.

Mar 15, 2010

For whatever it is worth, Durham is no New York.

There are some solid bars/clubs there but they are all on like 2 blocks and the rest of Durham is pretty shitty. Granted, you can always go to Chapel Hill.

Its like UNC requires a picture with their application or something, cuz girls at Chapel Hill = hot....

Mar 15, 2010

Whoa, I love Duke. Think is is a great school. Awesome work/life balance. With that said I can think of a bunch of schools I consider equal or better. NYU is a very good school, maybe a couple notches below Duke in the rankings, but like someone said above, you are next door to world of finance.

I never understand how people cannot dispassionately discuss business schools. Duke is great, but what kind of internship are you going to get around campus during the school year? PWM? At NYU you can intern at a HF during the school year. If you dream of working in finance what would you rather have, 2 banking related internships before your sophomore year with countless informational meetings because you are 50 feet away or a PWM internship and some emails exchanged. People discount proximity too much.

Mar 15, 2010
Anthony .:

Whoa, I love Duke. Think is is a great school. Awesome work/life balance. With that said I can think of a bunch of schools I consider equal or better. NYU is a very good school, maybe a couple notches below Duke in the rankings, but like someone said above, you are next door to world of finance.

I never understand how people cannot dispassionately discuss business schools. Duke is great, but what kind of internship are you going to get around campus during the school year? PWM? At NYU you can intern at a HF during the school year. If you dream of working in finance what would you rather have, 2 banking related internships before your sophomore year with countless informational meetings because you are 50 feet away or a PWM internship and some emails exchanged. People discount proximity too much.

Hey guess what NYC doesn't have 5 ft from them? Yeah that's right, Coach K.

Mar 15, 2010

Oh, what is this desire to not go to school with other kids interested in finance. If you want to work in finance you want to be surrounded by people like that. They will force you to be on your A game and be hungry. Being the only kid on campus who wants a banking job might get you past on campus 1st round interviews, but once you get to the super day you will be surrounded by hungry, drooling, finance monsters. That is the real test.

Mar 15, 2010

Better question is why your friend is a pussy and listened to his GF's obviously insensitive request.

Mar 15, 2010

^^^ Probably because his time at NYU made him that way.

Mar 15, 2010

thanks for all the comments u guys r helping a lot...if any of you are duke students...how difficult do you think the classes are?

Mar 15, 2010

stern is sort of a joke. I'd go to Duke but make sure to get good grades.

Mar 15, 2010

i would go to princeton that way you can say you meet dr house and dr cuddy

Mar 15, 2010
squirtlez:

i would go to princeton that way you can say you meet dr house and dr cuddy

HAHHA I love Cuddy. Probably the hottest boss I have ever seen on TV. Great show!

Mar 15, 2010

How can you use "duke is close to unc so you can creep on unc girls" as a selling point when NYU is in New York Fucking City?

Mar 15, 2010

This is a great thread ...

Mar 15, 2010

I went to Duke for a year. Half the kids there ARE wannabebankers. The social scene there is divided between pompous rich kids and workaholic nerds. If that's what you're into, then cool.

Duke and UNC people don't really interact that much, btw, so don't think you're gonna be hopping on the Robertson Bus to Franklin st every weekend.

Mar 15, 2010

duke has hotter girls, hands down boys

was just there a few weekends ago

w o w!

Mar 15, 2010

^^^
All I have to say is NYC has thee hottest girls in the world so if you are confined to only fucking girls in your school you must be a total tool.

Cheers!

Mar 15, 2010
barboon:

^^^
All I have to say is NYC has thee hottest girls in the world so if you are confined to only fucking girls in your school you must be a total tool.

Cheers!

NYC has the hottest girls in the world?

Am I not picking up on your sarcasm or are you actually being serious?

"Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America."

Mar 15, 2010

Girls from Duke aren't that cute. I haven't meet many girls from NYU besides in the industry so I have no basis for comparison. Also, NYU kids I've come accros are pretty inteligient. I wouldn't say they are the coolest kids by any means, but then again neither are most of the kids in banking. Duke kids aren't that cool either (it's Duke). Duke has relatively more cool kids, but the majority who are Greek there still aren't that cool (Duke kids would agree with me). Also, coach K sucks, sweet dude let's pick schools based on who's basketball coach looks most like a rat.

Mar 15, 2010

Stern > Duke

but

Duke >>>> NYU

have a nice day.

Mar 15, 2010

It depends on what type of faggot your into. If you're into gay butt-f*king, no campus faggots, then NYU is for you. But you might be into the frat type, liver failing, Dbag faggots - then Duke it is.

But when it comes to breaking into Finance, NYU beats all Ivies/targets just because of it's location and the networking potential. You could do finance from Duke too but it's just soooo much easier to do it from NYU.

Mar 15, 2010
Kris Kringle:

It depends on what type of faggot your into. If you're into gay butt-f*king, no campus faggots, then NYU is for you. But you might be into the frat type, liver failing, Dbag faggots - then Duke it is.

But when it comes to breaking into Finance, NYU beats all Ivies/targets just because of it's location and the networking potential. You could do finance from Duke too but it's just soooo much easier to do it from NYU.

You're an idiot, step in front of a bus.

    • 1
Mar 15, 2010

^^^^So you are saying if someone wants to go into finance, and they got into H/Y/P and NYU, they should go to NYU???? Child, please.

Mar 15, 2010

If they're confident in their ability of breaking in from an Ivy then they should absolutely go with that. I'm just saying that it's gotta be a piece of cake to go into high finance from NYU. Truth is, there are plenty of guys from Upenn, Harvard, etc, who didn't make it in BC it's just sooo competive. At NYU, you have so many damn options that it's easier.

Mar 15, 2010

Just log onto linkedin, and search finance. Check off nyc, investment banking, fin serv., inv man, etc. Then just click schools and you'll see for yourself.

Even better, replace finance with GS, CS, MS, trader, etc.

Mar 15, 2010

lol only on WSO is a top ranked school a "joke".

<