Views on "Salomon Sisters"?

Can't blame you, the third result when you google it is Salmon Sisters. An Alaska-based vendor of rubber boots

The women in my class who recruited for IB said that the female seniors consistently treated them the worst. I don’t know what it is (general cattiness, the feeling that they had it tougher when they came in, something else) but that was a consistent pattern. 

I speak in generalizations, but for women, everything is politics and everything is personal. For men, it’s not necessarily like that. Sure there are plenty of assholes who are men too. But between men it’s often understood if there’s a conflict, it’s not personal and once the issue is resolved, you’re back to being on good terms again. Generally women in positions of power are not able to comprehend this. 
 

Plus men tend to be very direct with their communications. If you screw something up, a man might shout at you, but he’ll tell you straight up. He’ll basically say “fix this and don’t make this mistake again”, learn your lesson and the problem’s solved, no long term hostility or anything. On the other hand, women will try to do anything they can to make you look bad about it and make themselves look good. And they do it in the most passive-aggressive and indirect way. They make sure everyone knows you screwed up and they were the ones to clean it up, while sometimes acting fake nice to you (or being a huge asshole, it’s usually one or the other). And it’s often over very petty things too, not important things.
 

It is better that men just confront things head on, as the whole female political passive-aggressive approach creates a lot of bad blood and tension throughout the team, and contributes to a very bad overall culture.

This is an extremely cold take in my opinion. Women seniors have been the absolute BEST to work for in my experience. Women tend to be way more EQ than IQ, and that makes them concerned about my time and not wasting it. Honestly the fact that this got so many upvotes shows the crowd on WSO. Your feelings are your feelings, but I would argue you are bringing some bias to the table. I worked at a fairly large shop, and I have had so many conversations where people agree that women are the shit to work for in IB. That is obviously a generalization, but to say they are the worst to work for is just BS.

I-Banking has a shit ton of men so of course you are going to have the full spectrum of chill MDs to utter assholes. You are just cherry picking the good ones while ignoring the fact that of your asshole MDs, most are men. Of course, of your chill MDs, most are men. I don’t even need to know where you work to know that, it’s just statistics.

I disagree. Have worked with several MDs that have don’t exactly what you’re saying they don’t. Two of them the rainmakers in their respective offices. Everyone situation is different but I think you’re generalizations are just too..general. Again, my favorite MD has been a rainmaker unafraid to say “we won’t do this deck” “let’s go into it without materials” etc and guess what she pulled the most at the office. Just putting it out there

you just knew a misogynistic comment was coming eventually in this thread

based

this is the real controversial statement.  but thats actually a good thing

do you really want your own mother to be compatible with investment banking?  your daughter?  your wife?

bad enough that men do this...but women?  why do we want to make this job more inclusive, it sucks dick.

its like all the women crying about how they want to be front line infantry soldiers, how the past regs banning them were non inclusive.  you really want to go get mowed down by a machine gun and have your guts hang out of your abdomen with all men?  this is progress?

based

Funniest comment I've seen on wso in a long time

Gaslight Gatekeep Girlboss

I'm only laughing because of how absurd sh*t is these days that I had no hesitation in seeing this being exactly how and why it plays out

The payoff just isn’t there for most women. Some are exceptions to the rule, but most aren’t. The ones that are exceptions are an odd breed and there’s survivorship bias in terms of the women that stay are usually very unusual and as a result they generally have weird relationships with other women and weird relationships with men. Here’s why I say that I don’t think the payoff is there:

I’m a guy. I did IB for a few reasons:

1) I wanted to provide for my future family and a majority of women don’t have the desire or ability to be a top % earner, so I can’t exactly bank on finding a wealthy girl, so I don’t have a choice but to work and earn a lot. This sucks, but I accept it. Women struggle with the choice to work or not, men don’t. It’s just a fact to are expected to work whether you like it or not. I also know I give myself optionality by taking money/ career off the table when I select a partner. 

2) I know it will make me more attractive to women/ there are numerous studies that show if you are a top % income earner women basically will accept you being less attractive. I’m not a looker, so IB was a great way to overcome looking like a dog.

3) other men are basically forced to respect me due to my career and insight I can provide. As an adult, men basically only compete against each other in terms of their career/ power, so this ends up being decently fulfilling actually. 

Here’s the problem in my opinion with women’s optimization right now:

1) providing for your family is legit, but most men are deeply invested in being the primary breadwinner due to societal expectations, so I don’t think the extra earnings helps women find a partner. I have friends that just wouldn’t date a girl who makes more than them because it makes them feel emasculated. But more importantly, almost all the women in finance I have ever met are unwilling to date men they view as “less successful than them”. This is weird because most finance men I know are actively looking for women who will do the childrearing responsibility, yet many high-earning women don’t have that same view and appreciation of the childrearing role (maybe because they chose not to do it). If you want to be a girl in finance, you should look for a stay at home dad. Girls in finance usually are so competitive that they don’t do the same optimization as men in terms of looking for a partner. Also, often the women have such a chip on their shoulder and so much pride over their job that they hold money over a guys head more than guys do to women. 

2) this payoff isn’t there. Sadly, men for whatever reason don’t care if a girl makes money. If anything, as mentioned, girls that make money makes them less attractive to many men. This blows and isn’t fair, but it’s reality. Women care about money and career when dating, men don’t.

3) Because most other women don’t place as much value in a career, emphasizing other things in life, they either resent or don’t respect women with careers. So the deeper you go into a career as a female often the deeper you ostracize yourself from a majority of women who chose to be stay at home moms, enter the workforce part-time, or take less demanding career paths.

It sucks, but I think if I have daughters one day I will raise daughters differently than sons. We don’t live in the same world and have different optimizations to happiness based on expectations of the opposite gender, expectations from our own gender, and the world around us. If you are a girl you eventually run into the problem and guilt of—

1) Do I want to compete to be the best mom?

or

2) Do I want to compete to be the best business person?

Men really only compete on one of these and feel very little/ no guilt about being a worse dad because dads generally are held to different standards in terms of childrearing. I don’t dislike women in finance and some of my best bosses have been female, but I think they pretty consistently face dilemmas about their career that men don’t face and I don’t think it’s rational for most women to do IB honestly.

Edit: would love to hear a girls perspective who disagrees.

So you think it's better in countries where women can't drive?  Just because things are worse in other countries doesn't mean women should leave banking

Would be hilarious. The salt and level of triggered in this thread is unreal.