I recently landed a Sr. analyst position at a large REIT in a secondary market. Thanks in a large part to the advice I got on WSO - Thank you (especially @CRE" and @RE bootcamp" )!
My question... I drive an old SUV, not junky, but definitely old (15 years) mainly because it still runs and I prefer to put my money elsewhere. I haven't really cared what people think, until now (this is a huge REIT) so I'd love to know your thoughts. I obviously want to be perceived as polished and successful and am starting to worry the car detracts from that. If you saw a coworker or employee driving an old car, what would you think? Should I suck it up and get a new(ER) one?
Save your money and keep your car until it dies
This
What's more important? Having money? Or people thinking you have it? If your car works, then there's no reason to get rid of it. Especially if you're not worried about it crapping out on you. Wait until it does, then replace it. In my experience, the guys with the nicest cars always had the most debt/problems at home.
I really like the distinction you're making there with projecting fake wealth.
I drive (my moms) 2002 black Ford Explorer and it's baller as frig.
I drove a 90s accord to work and everytime i brought up buying a new car to my coworkers, mds would tell me to save
If it flies, drives, floats, or fucks, rent it. I'm sorry what were we talking about in this thread, I forgot.
Oh right, keep the car.
fuck that! if you like it keep it. I mean I can see broker type roles 'needing' to be worried about that. Aren't 'we' CRE/finance guys supposed to be smart? That means we should know that what you drive sure as hell does not reflect what you make or how successful you are. Leave that to the insecure and narcissistic. You can always compare 401k's
Keep it. It proves you're good with numbers ;)
Thanks guys. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
Best friend is a VP at a PE. Drives his GF's old Prius to work. Do you.
The successful people I have met in the past have more respect for people whose confidence do not rest on their possessions. I will always have more respect for those who are smart, confident, and humble versus the ones who are so insecure and flaunt their entry level BMW/Mercs to get attention.
The thing is, people generally know how much you make based on your job and your age and most will tell you buying an expensive car is prob the worst way you can spend your money. So the fact that you own an expensive car is at best just a reflection of your poor financial decision.
Keep your car.
You can be smart and humble and still own a six figure vehicle, they are not mutually exclusive. Some people actually enjoy the performance on a daily basis and that is worth a great deal. Some people prefer to fly model airplanes or play warcraft games, that doesn't make them more humble or more secure than a guy who enjoys high end vehicles.
There is some feel the bern type commentary here masquerading as financial knowhow, its fucking disturbing
Nobody will care as long as you aren't always calling in because you are having car trouble.
If you have a good sense of investments then you know what the right decision is. Those brand new vehicles you see will also end up in the scrap yard.
IlliniProgrammer you're up bro
What everyone said, with the exception that if you were a subprime resi lender, I'd recommend you trade in for a metallic orange M5 on black rims, and you'd have to get frosted tips and move to Newport or Scottsdale
It says they're thrifty.
Look, the real cost of a BMW or some European sports car isn't the capital expenditure-- it's the maintenance.
My rusty Honda (ok technically it is a ford but it is rusty) is 16 years old. I spend about $700/year maintaining it. Everything on the vehicle that will ever have to be replaced besides the engine is now on some long term 20 year replacement cycle. I get a stomach ache when I think what an Audi or BMW would cost to maintain when it exits warranty.
I mean for the extra cost of maintaining an Audi I could probably afford to drink a bottle of Yellowtail every evening. I could own an extra motorcycle and a smaller boat. (Chicago slips start at $700/year). I could make two extra mortgage payments every year.
Look, if you really want a BMW or whatever, just do a $15 one hour zipcar rental. You can also rent a Ferrari or Porsche for an hour or two if you really want (I don't). They're not that exclusive. You know what's exclusive? Having savings. Making work an option, not a requirement. Not having a housing payment, and not worrying about Chinese and Russians turning your apartment into their next place to hide savings And I'd rather spend $2000 paying down my mortgage or sticking it into savings than spend $2000/year to drive a European sportscar I could always rent from Zipcar.
//end of rant
What kind of motorcycle do you have?
OP, IP's comment is spot on. This. In spades.
Owning a car means caring about the maintenance. Certain makes and models are much cheaper to care for. IP's rusty Honda is significantly cheaper and easier to fix than is a new Audi. A car will always have the sunk maintenance costs. If your current whip is fine and the maintenance costs are reasonable, then keep it. If it reaches a point where the car costs too much to maintain relative to the value (ie everything shits the bed within 6 months of the first issue showing up) then start looking for a new car, but if the cost to maintain it is not significant, then stick with what you have. If it's not broke, don't fix it.
smart talk. agree 100%.
So good.
Can you talk a little more about how you nailed down maintenance costs and what the replacement cycle is? Having those set would be useful.
You had me at bottle of Yellowtail... which some of us drink every evening regardless.
I ride a Yamaha R6.
The European bikes look awesome and have a whole lot of glitz and glamor, but if you want a reliable sportbike that doesn't require a valve adjustment and $1000 of maintenance every 6000 miles, and can win a race at its displacement, just buy a Japanese inline 4. They also sound better and are more fun to ride than a V-twin IMHO.
I'm on a SV650 now (first bike) and have had a great time on it but am looking around for a CBR600 now. Any reason you chose the R6 specifically over the other Japenese I4s?
Thats why I race dirtbikes. Work on it myself 100% plus you get all the hoonigan stuff out of your system
I've had an R6 and Triumph Daytona.
Agree with everything minus the comment about Japanese bikes sounding better. The 12k maintenance for Triumps is quoted at 600-1000.
So much truth to this. I ventured away from Jap and bought the new KTM RC 390. Although the bike is incredible, the maintenance is kind of rich for a $6000 bike.
Agreed w above. As far as appearances, nice clothes @ work is a good idea. Nice shoes, nice slacks, nice shirts ... if you want to spend money on image, spend it on clothes.
Old car = totally fine. I used to work under a very snooty, established, connected, WASPy debt broker who dresses extremely well but plans to "drive this car into the ground."
well said. your appearances should be suitable to your job. I'd recommend against a rusty honda if you're entertaining clients, but a used Lexus a few years old will do fine, you don't need a new Benz.
Look man, if your car works, and you don't hate it, nobody cares or thinks less of you for driving it. If you constantly complain around the office about your shitty car being broke, or that rustbucket in the parking lot, or whatever, then people may start to care, but only because it's obnoxious. I'm a broker, I drive a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee with cloth seats. Bought used. Does it matter? No. Nobody cares. It's got space, it's clean, it's comfortable, and it allows me to also own my Friday/Weekend car because I like to drive fast with the top down. That one's a 2014 Shelby GT500 convertible with 660hp. If that's not what you're into, put the money in your retirement account. Other than putting my kid in private school, it's the only luxury item I own. An expensive one, sure, but as Jay Leno says: "Horsepower solves a LOT of problems" =) Whatever makes you happy.
You don't need to drive a nice car to be perceived as polished and successful. People won't really care about what you drive. When I see a coworker driving an old car, I just think he's thrifty. I know he's making enough money to buy a nice car, but he chooses not to. Don't let anyone pressure you into blowing your savings.
Buy a nice car if you like cars and actually want one for yourself. I started out cheap, but I really like cars and driving, so I got a 5 series. I'm a big fan of BMW leases. They routinely give away the farm during certain times of the year and cover maintenance for the entirety of the lease.
Alright, can we declare this thread over?
I like agreeing with other people too but this is getting outa hand. Here is how I read it: Response 1 "I Agree", Response 2 "I agree" Response 3,4,5,6: "We also agree", Response 7 "I like motorcycles", Response 8 'I Agree about you liking motorcycles", Response 9: "I agree" etc...etc..
I agree that we are agreed. I also agree that /thread. =P
I DRIVE A DODGE STRATUS!!!!
I couldn't resist an opportunity for a classic Will Ferrell SNL reference. In all seriousness I'm an associate for a multifamily REPE shop and I drive a 10 year old Mazda 6 that has been paid off for a long time. I live in a car dependent city and it has made no difference. Leverage on things that go down in value is a bad idea.
Why can't this thread die
The ego and the car are so tightly bound that everyone has to share.
Let. Them. Die!
No one cares! People think about you much less than you'd expect
Honestly, I personally am a huge car guy. I would prefer to spend a larger amount on car payments, modifications, and maintenance, and spend less on clothes and going out, as I really enjoy the feeling of driving a nice car and spirited driving.
Allocated your budget to YOUR tastes. As long as your networth is rising, it doesn't matter what your expenses are. The only thing that matters is keeping that expense ratio in check.
Doesn't matter. Just make sure it looks well kept. There's a TON of reasons you could like an old car ranging from a sentimental attachment(good stories to tell when asked) to some quirk about that model/year you like.
Better yet get a motorcycle. It adds a significant "cool" factor to be on a cruiser and you've got instant rapport with anyone else who rides.
To add to some of this, when you do buy a new car, don't buy a new car or a luxury brand car. Buy something made after 2010 that looks nice and is clean. Toyota Avalons, Chevy Tahoes/GMC Yukons, etc. are all really decent vehicles that don't carry that BMW/Mercedes/Audi/Acura/Lexus maintenance price tag.
I work for a REIT, and I bought a Mercedes when going from analyst to associate. It has done nothing positive or negative to my career, at the end of the day it is simply another car in the parking ramp at work.
Was thinking about doing the exact same thing. Ended up leasing a new Civic, seems like I made the right decision in the end.
It says you're a clown
Having a clean car (inside and out) is more important than having a nice car or a new car. If you can't afford to get it detailed and washed regularly (or dedicated enough to do it yourself), you can't afford the car. I get my car detailed once a month and washed every 2 weeks (also get one offs done if needed). People constantly tell me how great my car looks, how clean it is, and when they get inside and there isn't shit and crumbs everywhere, they are amazed. Once when I was younger, an MD randomly needed me to give him a ride. When he got in, he said "Wow, I didn't expect you to be someone who keeps his car clean" LOL I get compliments from people with really nice cars all the time, My clean 10 year old SUV looks better than a nicer dirty car. I can't stress this enough, the clean inside of the car AMAZES people, and it feels nice to drive in.
Dear god, please let this fucking thread die.
What is dead may never die
How about a few years old BMW? Keep the rusty SUV to drive to work regularly and use the BMW when you need to entertain people for work? That way you won't need to spend much on maintenance and still keep your SUV and maintain your appearance when you have to.
For the love of fucking god. Make a budget. See if/what you can afford, including insurance and maintenance, keep it clean and in good shape, and not one soul will care about the price tag other than you.
ride that baby into the ground
Don't worry about it - better to be in your situation than be that guy that everyone talks about who just bought his mid life crisis sports car.
really? gold jacket, green jacket
If you keep it clean where your co-workers won't feel unsafe or disgusted riding in it, then I think you are fine. I still think the tech in the new cars is a good reason to trade up. Nothing special, maybe even a ford focus or fusion (
+1 for R6 crew.
I brought this up to a mentor one time. His response: "Whats more important to you. Being successful or appearing successful?"
The biggest most balling broker I know drives a Prius
Good for him. Sounds pretty darned typical of the real ballers if you ask me.
Back to my used ford fusion (which I paid cash for and recently replaced a 17 year old rusty honda because my mechanic advised me it was close to falling apart)
Fuck you for bringing back this stupid thread. Thought we'd put this shit out to pasture.
Who pissed in your Cheerios?
...or Count Chocula, rather.
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