When will crypto deniers grow up and educate themselves?

To be clear, I'm not talking about all skeptics. Some people understand blockchain technology, yet fail to see the destructive force of a communist institution (central bank) that wields monopolistic power over the money supply. 

Rather I'm talking about the "flat earthers" of the crypto debate-those who keep recycling the same utterly idiotic arguments from 2012 like "Bitcoin has no intrinsic value."

We would not find it necessary to rebut flat earthers, because in doing so we grant them undue credibility. They are not entitled to our time. So why do we treat Luddite crypto deniers any differently?

Just as is the case with subscribers to any outdated and backwards belief system (race science, religion, etc.), crypto deniers will eventually fade away as they perish from old age. But when will it finally no longer be socially acceptable to be voluntarily uninformed on blockchain technology?

Comments (134)

9mo
vampanthem, what's your opinion? Comment below:

that's how I feel about NFTs… before I was flipping NFTs I was flipping yeezys. Also as someone who has been into NFTs for a year and made some decent $… my advice is to stay tf away.. some of them have risen to cultural significance (BAYC) but 99% of them are scams on top of scams on top of scams and headed to zero 

3mo
geeohmop, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Cryptos and NFTs became so popular that I also invested some funds in crypto which I was unlucky to have done that on fake Ads platform where I lost 45k . The time came to withdraw and I was asked to deposit 20% of the money before I could withdraw< this immediately made me realized It was a scam. 

I happened to make some research on how to recover lost funds and all fingers pointed to using a hacker for hire service. I ended up finding on deep web Sniffingnose ATrepairman DOTcom. I was asked to provide the Trans ID and the hash to certify that I truly made the transaction. it took roughly 48 hours for the recovery process to be completed. The site was later shut down with DDos which I absolutely paid for that to happen. This is exactly when I knew what DDos was as the hckers had to explain exactly what was done.

For as long as I know, I am never getting into crypto anymore as this was an eye opener.

13d
apollomorgenstern, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Yes...Cryptos and NFTs became so popular that I also invested some funds in crypto where I lost 14k, but letter I got even more than lost plus invested. that's why i'm still doing it

  • Intern in IB - Gen
9mo

Ah yes, the currency nobody wants to actually use because they believe it will keep rising in value. 

Edit: okay sure. Downvote me but upvote the MD who says the same thing, cocksucker. 

9mo
TimesNewMoney, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Intern in IB - Gen

Ah yes, the currency nobody wants to actually use because they believe it will keep rising in value. 

Edit: okay sure. Downvote me but upvote the MD who says the same thing, cocksucker. 

The funny thing to me is if you're holding a currency expecting it to massively fluctuate in value, you're essentially banking on it being worthless as an actual currency because the entire point of currency is to hold stable value. You can't use it in any type of real business arrangement without directly pegging it to an actual currency then just paying it out in crypto to be cute.

  • Intern in IB - Gen
9mo

Yeah, this is the problem with Japan and the Yen. The Japanese Central Bank is having a shitty time because the Yen has trended deflationary since the 1990s. 

The vast majority of crypto holders view it as a speculative investment. Only a small, cultish minority actually still believe in the whole 'replacement to central bank' shit 

9mo
Welsh Carrot, what's your opinion? Comment below:

exactly. the flat earth analogy is apt.. shocking that people like charlie munger and bill gates can go on record saying such uninformed things and not be publicly ridiculed for it.

Controversial
9mo
Liquor and Leverage, what's your opinion? Comment below:

This has the potential to age horribly real quick if you're an active trader of BTC. I see why you hid the username.

Did you notice how the Russia headlines spiked gold and whacked BTC? BTC chart inverses gold since COVID.

Blockchain is valued, BTC is not. Even ETH has more dynamic intrinsic value than BTC. BTC's intrinsic value has no moat. So why BTC, not a CBDC or ETH...

What happens with the Fed develops their own CBDC as their whitepaper explored? Your BTC becomes worthless.

If you're interested, look at the 5 year bearish divergence on BTC. It's only a matter of time before you see 13k or less again...

Best of luck though... BTC = Tulips and I refuse to buy flowers, despite knowing how photosynthesis works.

https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/economics/dutch-tulip-bulb-market-bubble/

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
9mo

Username checks out. So much of what you wrote is so completely incorrect/unfounded I don't even know where to start. Let's just touch base in 10 years. 

9mo
Liquor and Leverage, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Better yet, unhide your username and circle back in 6-12 months.If you truly believe in your opinion, atleast own up to it.

1 BTC is more than the median US salary and was over 2x once. Tulip bubble was about 6x average salary.

What happens when the mania dies and greater fool theory dissipates? Can't be a currency if it behaves like a stock

9mo
Liam Gallagher, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I don't really have a dog in the fight here, but one thing that helped me understand why BTC actually does have intrinsic value is the fact that it cannot be arbitrarily seized or deleted by a government entity if stored correctly. Any central bank digital currency will lead to the government having complete control and the ability to view all transactions between everyone. That is not something I think many people would be comfortable with if they really think about it. Not only this, but unlike other crypto currencies, no one entity, government or not, controls the network, meaning you cannot be financially deplatformed from BTC. This alone has huge value in regions that have had historically bad experiences trusting state run central banks, i.e. Africa, Middle East, Eastern Europe, LatAm. I'm not saying anything about where the price is headed relative to dollars, but is it going to $0 anytime soon? No. And if you are somewhat excited about a central bank digital currency I ask you to please question why China is one of the first ones attempting to implement one and why they have outright banned BTC? Pretty obvious why.

9mo
Liquor and Leverage, what's your opinion? Comment below:

There is no moat. The point is that the technology is immensely valuable, but nothing distinguishes BTC from any other crypto other than the cult following.

ETH is more dynamic for a transaction network, yet it's 1/2 the market cap of BTC.

Clarifying my comment - "i believe a moat is necessary to hold significant intrinsic value".

Your comment is based upon a network that is easily created, hence the thousands or more of cryptos in existence. Hence the tech is valuable, not the coin itself

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
9mo

Your ignorance will one day no longer be socially acceptable

I will check in with you every few years to remind you of your idiocy. Year 13: you're still wrong

  • Anonymous Monkey's picture
  • Anonymous Monkey
  • Rank: Chimp
9mo
Anonymous Monkey, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Again this is like a "they live" moment without needing glasses. The fact that so many people either don't immediately recognize that bitcoin is a Ponzi or just keep their mouth shut and speculate/shill for it speaks to both the financial illiteracy of society but also the speculative reptilian brain that many people possess. The fact that people who work at financial institutions, regulators, and the press don't universally condemn it shows the moral bankruptcy of these institutions. 

  • Intern in AM - Equities
9mo

I don't really think people are complete deniers (even if they say it like they straight up deny the existence of crypto). I think people just don't really agree with the hype. Especially when the people who push it and pump it up tend to be younger people who either have no financial experience or large whales who are pumping and dumping causing extremely volatile price changes. The only advantage of crypto in my opinion over cash is the ability to avoid government control and taxation. Also being able to travel internationally and not have to get scammed by currency exchange counters is nice as well. Crypto has its place in society, but I don't see a reason for it to completely replace regular cash currency. Especially since governments are starting to catch onto crypto and either regulate them to the point where you can't hide money anymore or to the point where it is banned (like in china). And as far as investments go, crypto is volatile to the point where you might as well invest in the s&p500. Regular currency might fluctuate like 10 cents over the year, whereas bitcoin can lose half its value and if you look at the bitcoin graphs it just looks like the scammers pump it up to crazy peaks and then sell it all off and they have been rinsing and repeating this for many years now. Overall, it's a volatile industry that once it becomes regulated (which it will) the many advantages of crypto over cash will be gone and at that point the only advantage will be avoiding international currency exchange values. There's also so many cryptocurrencies that it's hard to tell which are legit and which are scams (which should never be a problem when deciding which currency to use)

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
9mo

Here are my thoughts on some of the things you mentioned: 

- "The only advantage of crypto in my opinion over cash is the ability to avoid government control and taxation"

These are "benefits" which are even more apparent with cash, which is not only anonymous, but also completely untraceable. The real added benefit is that you can store your wealth in something and know for a fact that the central bank can't print your wealth away. Sure, you could invest in real estate or gold and accomplish the same purpose, but they're not portable. You can't pick up and leave with your net worth any time you want.

- "governments are starting to catch onto crypto and either regulate them to the point where you can't hide money anymore or to the point where it is banned (like in china)."

Regulating, or even banning something, doesn't de-monetize it. No government can ever seize crypto held securely in a hardware device unless they get their hands on your private keys. You can cross a nation border with all of your wealth in your brain.

- "crypto is volatile to the point where you might as well invest in the s&p500."

So was gold, the only sound money ever.

- "scammers pump it up to crazy peaks and then sell it all off"

Not true of Bitcoin, only the centralized VC-backed alts. 

- "There's also so many cryptocurrencies"

Agreed. Most of them need to go to zero

9mo
vampanthem, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Chinas the only country with sophisticated  enough surveillance infrastructure to ban it (and even so, they can't completely ban it, the networks are still usable). They just have a much higher level of country than is possible anywhere else. Would not be surprised if there's a push among the Greta thunberg types to ban BTC mining places in the EU though 

9mo
Monkeydawg, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Paul Tudor Jones, Stanley Drunkenmiller, Ray Dalio, Chamath Palihapitiya, Tesla- some of the smartest people in the world have allocations to Bitcoin. I feel like calling it worthless/ponzi scheme is just ignorance after it showing growth for over a decade. It's ultimate success or failure is still tentative but clearly there's a compelling value proposition for it to have the growth and brand recognition it does

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
9mo

Exactly. Well-informed criticism regarding its adoption is always welcome. "Tulip mania" boomers just need to die off already.

  • Anonymous Monkey's picture
  • Anonymous Monkey
  • Rank: Chimp
9mo
Anonymous Monkey, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Those guys are all investment promoters/grifters. They are smart at scamming investors to pay their fees that's it. 

9mo
Kevin25, what's your opinion? Comment below:

these people manage other people's money. if you can attract clients by offering to invest their money in essential oils, and take a cut off of the money under management, won't you invest in essential oils?

and Tesla likes free advertisement, so being associated with bitcoin gives them more hype. plus, there's a big overlap between crypto crowd and EV crowd, so it only makes sense to attract them even more to get their money. Musk himself doesn't hold crypto.

  • VP in IB - Gen
9mo

You lost me at Chamath Peepeepoopoo. This was the same motherfucker pumping and dumping SPACs a few months ago. Paul Tudor Jones is just trying to keep up with the Joneses. BTC and crypto have become overused buzzwords that don't mean anything. 

The one thing you're forgetting is that there HAS to be MASS adoption for any currency to work. People that own crypto are typically affluent and educated. Even then, the vast majority of holders think it's bullshit, including my friends and I (see FOMO). 

We can't even get everyone to use credit/debit cards that are simple, common, and have been around for literally decades. Paper/physical currency is alive and well. Do you have any idea how many people still use cold hard cash? What about the millions and millions of people that will lose their digital wallet passwords, get hacked, or die without leaving any details behind?

One of friends who works at a prominent multi family RE developer told me a story of someone buying a multi-million condo in BTC (accepted as accommodation to close sale), and the RE developer converted to USD IMMEDIATELY upon close.

When was the last time USD was turned down?

9mo
vampanthem, what's your opinion? Comment below:

The one thing you're forgetting is that there HAS to be MASS adoption for any currency to work.

Yes. And that's what's happening this decade. 

People that own crypto are typically affluent and educated. Even then, the vast majority of holders think it's bullshit, including my friends and I (see FOMO). 
 

completely wrong on both fronts 

9mo
Smoke Frog, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I don't personally believe in the longevity of crypto, but have no problem with the people speculating. It's just like energy commodity traders or hedge funds that short or any other type of speculative investing.

But to believe that in the near to medium term it will replace actual currencies? That seems far fetched. People believe in the dollar because of US tax revenues and the faith the US government will honor its debts. Can you imagine if the US told China it won't honor its debt? It would be WW3.

I mean who out there is most interested in transferring money without any traces? Think about it.

9mo
vampanthem, what's your opinion? Comment below:

That's an American centric view though. Governments around the world (including US) are devaluing their own currencies and causing inflation. In Venezuelan, Turkey, Nigeria, people already prefer BTC to local currency because of inflation. Another actual use case of crypto is people in those countries having access to USD stablecoins such as USDC USDT DAI etc. 1.4B people live in countries with double or triple digit inflation, protecting their wealth is the use case for them. Property rights to anyone on the globe with a $50 smartphone. Separating the state from money gives so much more power to the individual, states don't collapse because they're invaded, they collapse because the government prints too much money. That's pretty revolutionary 

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Gen
9mo

I'm gonna be honest here, as someone who is at best cautiously optimistic about crypto, this is the type of puerile and lowbrow bullshit that is often spewed by crypto evangelists which causes the type of reactions that you're supposedly lamenting. Instead of actually touting the value of crypto: self-custody to protect what is yours as reflected within this week's events where a vengeful and oppressive state sought to financially harm protesters; lack of intermediaries & overall reduced friction (regulatory) as it relates to sending money to practically anyone and anywhere;  this is what you've come up with.

I am always confused and amused by the hostility of evangelists  to "communist central banks" when you clowns should be laying prostrate at the feet of Bernanke, and every Fed Chair thereafter, and be thanking them for distorting markets with sustained low interest rates and QE. Do you really think crypto or any risk asset that has appreciated over the past decade has not benefited from what markets have become - a gamified structure where institutions and retail have no choice but to continually go further along the risk curve and speculate on practically anything?

Pipe down, blockchain technology is nothing new or revolutionary. In its most incipient form, public key cryptography was being used by the GCHQ and NSA for military purposes since the 70s and the concept of electronic/digital cash was being discussed since the late 80s-90s. Actual adoption of blockchain technology outside of crypto has been slow and limited at best because the tech serves a very niche purpose and actual adoption of the tech for most would just be a solution looking for a problem. This is why companies selling enterprise blockchain solutions have basically shuttered their services (see: Microsoft Azure Blockchain last year, IBM before that, JPM selling Quorom to Consensys) There is some potential value in tokenization, DIDs (assuming they can frontrun web 2 companies on this),and payments/asset transfers but these use cases are generally far from being realized. You can add CBDCs as a potential use case but this is not bullish for crypto. Just face it: the current value is mostly in the highly speculative nature of the asset; there is value in a digital casino. 

9mo
vampanthem, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Blockchain technology is revolutionary, because it allows for a trust decentralized network with no central authority with monetary value attached to it. That wasn't present prior to the introduction of BTC. No state controls the money, no bad actors can fuck with the money, no one can shut down the network or create more. Blockchains allow people who don't trust each other and bad actors to have access to immutable stores of value and trustless interactions.

  • VP in PE - LBOs
9mo

Blockchain technology and even smart contract technology will continue to have LIGHT value and hopefully grows into more valuable use cases in the next 10 years.

With that said, Bitcoin was created as a GAME by some Japanese people a long time ago. If you like beanie babies and collectible pokemon cards that's fine, but don't pretend it's anything more than that. 

9mo
vampanthem, what's your opinion? Comment below:

It wasn't created as a game, or created by Japanese people. It was created by satoshi Nakamoto (who is almost certainly an American or Brit based off analysis of their online posting history) and was created in response to dissatisfaction with central banks. When central banks recklessly increase the money supply, inflation becomes rampant, governments start freezing people's bank accounts without legal jurisdiction (happening right now IN CANADA), this starts to look a lot less like a game and a bandaid solution to a world monetary system. Games don't reach trillions of dollars in market cap. Games don't get censored and banned by China. We are fully in the "then they fight you" stage.

  • VP in IB - Gen
9mo

Do you realize that currency is based on more than central bank actions? Military power, laws/regulations, infrastructure, tax revenues, stability etc. are all factored into a nation's currency. It's why USD is worth more than Zimbabwe's currency (no offense to Zimbabwe, but that hyperinflation though!).

Central banks are not necessarily evil; they regulate the economy (remember that thing that happened in 08-09?) and play a major role in maintaining civility (e.g. anti-money laundering, freezing assets of bad actors, creating debt to fund society, and more). 

One global currency (which is like a participation trophy, because if you want a strong/stable currency, a nation should have to earn it) that no one has control over? No thanks!

9mo
vampanthem, what's your opinion? Comment below:

There's more countries out there than just the US. If you're in Zimbabwe or Nigeria or Turkey or Venezuela, crypto allows you to preserve your wealth, both in investing in assets like BTC or USDC. By separating state from money, you remove one of the biggest levers of tyranny over the individual. 

  • VP in IB - Gen
9mo

Why can't people in the countries you listed just exchange their "wealth" for USD? 

Thanks to the internet, people from all over the world can invest in wealth preservation strategies.

But for you think that people across Africa are gonna whip out their smart phones to transfer BTC between digital wallets (while these same people struggle everyday just to survive), comes across as foolish.

9mo
BAIIPlus, what's your opinion? Comment below:

This is definitely something that cannot be discussed quickly and without going in depth.

I'm also a bit of a skeptic, but I will say a few things in general which I find interesting: 

-  The rate of acceptance and use of cryptocurrencies is similar (or higher) than the rate of acceptance of the Internet in the late 1990s

- It is expected that somewhat soon the number of people who were exposed to the crypto in one way or another will rise to 1 billion (ie 1/8 of the world's population) (not sure about the exact numbers, but the point matters)

- Crypto space attracts a lot of intellectual capital and a lot of talented developers and innovators work in this field (especially young people)

Fintech, crypto, DeFi, NFTs, web3 etc. - who knows how all this will turn out, but I think it's hard to say that this area will not develop and grow in the next 10 years (this does not mean that every project or every coin will succeed or that is should)

Black Swan theory says that almost all major events and technological breakdowns in history were unexpected. No one expected printing press or imagined future with it 3 years before it was invented. The same is with the internet in general, social networks etc etc. All these things were like surprises that we get used to, but no one, or almost no one, predicted it. My opinion is that it is the same with crypto, it is really hard to predict where this will take us.  Does that mean that all can go to shit - absolutely, but in my opinion we come to far that everything just disappears.

9mo
DeltaDecay, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I am a crypto enthusiast and I will say Bitcoin does not have any intrinsic value. Its real value was during the early years when it could actually be used by a currency with no oversight. Where the mining could be done by any random dude starting a node on their laptop. Until it got commercialized. Is bitcount really worth $30000+ ? No. All that it is being used for is speculation. You are hoping other people will buy into the hype and the price will go higher. The only thing working in its favor is the halving of its supply. This will lead to FOMO and thus more price increases. Development on the bitcoin network is stagnant and since institutional investors are invested in it their PR is working on labelling it as digital gold. But does that mean i am not taking part in it? Hell no. This is the only asset currently available to the average person to actually make some decent money. It is a new tech with new industry thus flattening the playground for people willing to do the work.

However, I also think cryptocurrency is a misnomer that causes a large cross section of the population to think every tech in this industry is a scam. The tech is still extremely new and most people are not tech savvy to understand and that is where crypto users need to raise awareness. This is also not helped by the us vs them mentality that crypto users have with non crypto users. Ethereum is not a currency. Its the bloody TCP/IP layer of Web 3.0. In simpler terms when you are buying Ethereum you are actually buying a part of the Internet. Imagine if in 1990s you got a chance to own a part of the internet and that part had a value. Other chains are also similar. Else you might just want to invest in a new solution that uses blockchain tech by either buying into their ICO or holding their tokens. 

However, one of the main problems with blockchain tech today is the lack of interoperability. Its not easy to move from one chain to another and the team that solves this issue will become billionaires. Another problem is the use of the tech for nonsense reasons. Case in point, NFTs. Why the hell spend hundreds of millions of dollars on some pixelated monkeys. Instead of trying to mature the tech to follow copyright tracking, patent tracking royalty payments most teams are taking the easy way out to make some money. Hell I know a project that used NFTs which have no intrinsic value to get users to make digital signatures on their platform. Yes the project can show they are having so many users but its BS because most such signatures were made on some random BS to get that NFT.

Blockchain tech is here to stay. Its still early days so its rife with scams and useless applications. However, people who now take the time to really understand it and are able to implement something on it in the long term will be the real winners.

As Steve Jobs said, "Innovation is the ability to see change as an opportunity - not a threat".

  • Senior VP in Consulting
9mo

I'm not sure really where to begin here because I don't really understand the supporting arguments to your points. This may be my own lack of understanding or--to use your words--'flat earther' mind, but can you layer on some precision to this?

For example...

1) At what point do 'crypto deniers grow up' and become educated? What steps does one have to take to reach that point? Just learning about blockchain basics or understanding the deep coding/mining/gas prices/market dynamics/tech applications/NFTs/etc.?

2) What is a 'crypto denier'? Seems like most people know crypto exists and there's a market for it.

3) It seems a number of coins have a few large wallets that make up a large % of coins in circulation. Could you argue there is a form of 'monopolistic'/centralized power in this seemingly decentralized world? 

4) What--in your mind--is the 'socially acceptable' level of information a person needs to have?

Not trying to challenge you, but I don't fully understand the points you're making.  

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
9mo

appreciate the comment

1. Yes. It's perfectly reasonable to contest whether it will be adopted by the majority of people, but people who in 2022 say "Tulip Mania" without ever having devoted even 10 minutes to understanding how the protocol works are the equivalent of flat earthers to me intellectually.

2. "Crypto denier" is admittedly a click bait title used to rile people up. I knew I was going to get MS'ed by some for it. I don't care. No one obviously denies crypto exists. It's sort of a trope of climate change deniers-people who refuse to educate themselves.

3. Issues of centralization pertain mainly to VC-backed alts, not Bitcoin. 
4. That's a good question. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but it seems like devoting a cumulative ~5 hours to understanding the philosophical definition of money, the history of the gold standard and central banking, and the basics of how public blockchains such as BTC actually work should knock out a majority of these recycled arguments from 2012. It's just when you hear people say "blockchain is valuable, but crypto is a bubble", you immediately know they don't even understand that PUBLIC blockchains cannot exist without a cryptocurrency which incentivizes the nodes the maintain the network-and for private blockchains, well who cares? They're nothing new/groundbreaking. 
 

like I mentioned in a comment above, this thread was created in a way to preserve a record that I was making fun of people like Liquor and Leverage already in 2022. I have actual civil conversations with "deniers" all the time to try to explain the value of the technology to them.

  • Senior VP in Consulting
9mo
[Comment removed by mod team]
  • Senior VP in Consulting
9mo

Somehow this got flagged, so reposting...

Thanks for the added color.

Just on point 3, I saw this on Bitinfocharts (not sure how reliable it is) on Bitcoin ownership.

From this data, it seems the top 3 largest buckets control over 40% of the coins in circulation, but the number of addresses is ~0.01% of total addresses. The top 4 control ~60% of the coins in circulation. Does this not imply concentration at the top? I don't know the answer, but I'm also struggling to see how centralization only exists at VC-backed alt coins.  

9mo
NoEquityResearch, what's your opinion? Comment below:

When I can simply buy a pizza, easily and efficiently, with Bitcoin which I've promised for years and still can't happen outside a couple of places.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
9mo

It's currently more a store of value than a currency. But if you want to transact via a layer 2 scaling solution such as lightning network you can. The layer 1 protocol is more of a final settlement layer.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
9mo

Imagining explaining credit cards to someone in the 20th century.

The way uninformed people speak with such certainty.. This is how Galileo must have felt when he was persecuted for speculating that the earth revolved around the Sun 😂

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
9mo

do you understand how much energy people use to mine this shit? it's a huge negative to the environment. yes, i understand that people in countries with unstable currencies can take advantage of bitcoin and that a lot of money can be made - still is outweighed by the environmental impact IMO

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
9mo

Assuming it isn't entitled to the energy it consumes. It's an energy intensive process to mine gold as well. That's why possessing refined gold demonstrates proof of work (either you did the work to mine the gold or you paid for it). That's a different argument.

  • Research Analyst in HF - Other
9mo

Can understand your likely frustration at seeing some of these comments. I don't have much to add except to clarify that BTC indeed has little intrinsic value. Many DeFi investments can be modeled like cash-flowing assets: ie staking LUNA entitles you to a % of transaction fees on all Terra ecosystem dapps. Many of these dapps have tremendous value-add (Chai, for ex) and can be modeled like their TradFi counterparts: in Chai's case, something like Square. Most of DeFi has robust incentive systems in place to ensure that stakers, LP's, etc are compensated with rewards, and by understanding the system and tokenomics, one can genuinely assign intrinsic value to some of this stuff. Can't rly do any of it w BTC. Its PoW concensus mechanism and non-programmability make it quite inefficient and useless in the long run.  

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
9mo

Agreed. Unfortunately don't have time to educate all of these people, and people who are willingly ignorant would never understand anyways. This thread will definitely be a gem in 30 years.

I agree it doesn't have intrinsic value if you define intrinsic value as bearing cash flows.. neither does gold. It's meant more as a store of value. If it were ever to become a currency it would need to be scaled up via additional layers (paper was a technology layer to gold; visa was a technology layer to paper money, etc.)

  • Research Analyst in HF - Other
9mo

Yep. In my eyes, BTC offers non-intrinsic value in three ways: being a medium of exchange / store of value; being an inflation hedge and S&P hedge (although this correlation hasn't been proven yet); and being an entry point for institutional money. The third is the most relevant. Boomers running endowments and pension funds won't be learning about Curve Wars and apeing straight into veCRV, they'll first test the waters with BTC and ETH. BTC will benefit all of DeFi by serving as that trusted entry point so that these boomers can later on become increasingly degen.

8mo
Colin44, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I support cryptocurrency and believe that it is the future of money. Once upon a time, physical money also did not exist, and people traded by barter. However, it was damn inconvenient, and people came up with the money. I'm pretty sure that this is the future for physical money. They are simply inconvenient. They need to be yearned together all the time. They can be stolen or even lost. Thus, many are already engaged in purchasing and selling goods and services using cryptocurrencies. I constantly replenish my crypto wallet with new crypto coins. One of the latest was the crypto coin Bitgert. Everyone decides what to believe and has every right to do so. If someone likes to believe that the earth is flat, so be it. 

8mo
innovativeguy11, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Blockchain tech is valuable but not the coins. It is a speculative investment that may or may not work out but I can't see it realistically being a currency because the fluctuations are too great. It also sketches me out that crypto.com has so much advertising and even hires high profile actors to do commercials acting like if you invest you're a "pioneer". Instant red flag for me, I don't see any other company running ads saying buy our stock. Bitcoin is only worth what the next person will pay for it and most of it is held by ultra rich people. I don't get how someone could be so bullish on something so speculative but, then again, anyone who owns this stuff would never say a bad thing about it because the only way they'll make money is by convincing the next person to buy it. People are tricked because they saw it run up so much and make instant millionaires but that just won't happen for everyone.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
8mo

"Blockchain tech is valuable but not the coins"

It is impossible for a public blockchain to exist without a cryptocurrency because there needs to be a financial incentive for validators/miners to keep the network running. I don't have time to reply to every comment but this is a classic example of someone who is not actually informed about how the technology works yet expects their opinion to be valued.

The use case of crypto is not to create millionaires--i've never viewed it that way and people who understand the technology don't view it that way. Even if Bitcoin's price ceased to climb more than global GDP growth forever, it would still serve people in that it is a decentralized store of value that cannot be seized, counterfeited or destroyed, 

8mo
samoody9, what's your opinion? Comment below:

With the major influx of online platforms to trade with and exchange payments, the number of cases of scams have also increased over the years, this is somewhat inevitable, i moved into the united states seven years ago when cyber crime wasn't very popular and at that time a colleague of mine was a victim and a huge sum of money was stolen from the office, our security agents immediately filed a complaint and sent it to B A C K E N D R E C O V E R at R E S C U E T E A M dot C O M and in the space of 5 working days the money was refunded and the location of the cyber criminals were revealed which eventually led to their arrest. Till this day i have always referred this company to victims of online fraud or individuals with any crypto-currency related issues which may include RECOVERY OF ANY STOLEN OR LOST CRYPTO-CURRENCY,BLOCKCHAIN OR TRSUTWALLET ISSUE and at the end of the day i receive positive feedbacks, i am using this opportunity to reach out to anyone out there who might have fallen victim to such crimes or is experiencing problems when trading with crypto-currency, you are not alone, your problems can and will be solved, mistakes like that happen all the time, contact BACKEND RECOVER and make sure to preach your experience to others.

7mo
alecm0533, what's your opinion? Comment below:

For Lost BTC recovery,and money recovery, Backend Recovery is your go-to person. I am saying this because my family has benefited immensely from his work. He is so cool to work with. Reach him on B A C K E N D R E C O V E R at R E S C U E T E A M dot C O M.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
16d

LOL @ the above who think the fact crypto prices are down proves their point that is has no value. Just goes to show that they view crypto as nothing more than a get rich quick scheme. 

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Cov
16d

Because you are a gambler who thinks he is somehow educated and makes dumb ass posts in forums that can bad influenced naive students?

16d
whereisthealpha, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
15d

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14d
I quit this site because of censorship, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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Expedita asperiores modi inventore modi ut. Quos id dolorum rerum beatae quas.

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Array

13d
whereisthealpha, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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