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Are You "IBD or Bust"?
 

HowardRoark's picture
O
(Orangutan, 330
 
Points)
 on 1/12/13 at 4:00pm
JulieChen.jpg

As much as I love Wall Street Oasis, I can't help but raise an eyebrow at how narrow some of the mindsets on this website are. I'm specifically talking about in regards to careers; obviously, this is a finance community-targeted website, but it seems unbelievable how many students go beyond "IBD or bust." There's literally been folks who've talked about becoming psychologically depressed or even near suicidal because they didn't get a callback or subsequent offer from some target banks. Others are willing to make extremely illogical moves (like racking up six figure debt to go to a tiny business school in an attempt to gain entrance into the finance world instead of simply networking) to reach "their goals."

In expanding this beyond WSO, so many of my friends at Ivy League institutions, top state schools, and even honors colleges simply cannot fathom that there are jobs that are better than being an analyst straight out of college. For slightly lower pay, they could find something which may give them a better quality of life, a broader skill-set, and the same quality (or better) of network and exit opportunities. See the interview with Nefarious on his position as a strategy associate at a defense firm for evidence of this.

But don't worry; if you've wanted to be a banker since you were 15, have done summer internships at 3 or 4 banks, have taken finance courses throughout college, and still love it... this field may be for you. It's simply upsetting how many people are blind-sighted by the six figure pay and secretly either don't have any interest in it, or haven't yet experienced enough of the lifestyle to know.

And there's this constant talk about how great the exit opportunities are after the killer 2 years that is an IBD analyst position. What folks don't realize is that these opportunities arise because you've developed certain skills (read: excel and staying up for 3 days at a time) that are valued at other firms. That means that if you hate your job as an analyst, you're going to hate your job on a shorter-hour and better-pay basis in whatever next job you take.

I'd also like to echo a recent article I read about media company CEO compensation. Les Moonves, chief exec of CBS Corp, took in just under $70 million in 2011 and Philippe Dauman of Viacom Inc. took in $43 million. The rest simply went down the list, with these numbers simply making Wall Street CEO exec comp look tiny in comparison.

You all should know about banking's rigid hiring schedule and how much they love pedigree, prestige, and grades. Moonves is now chief executive of CBS, running a corporation that affects and influences millions of lives every day. His major at Bucknell (is that a target?) was Spanish, and he acted in a few plays before shifting to the corporate side and working his way up. Today, he's one of the happiest dudes ever: google image him and see his gigantic smirk in every pic. He has more money than he ever needs, gets to chill with celebrities all the time, and he's married-- with a prenup-- to Julie Chen, the hottest 42-year old thing on Earth.

I think that there are quite a few WSOers who are determined to go to finance and truly have a passion for it, and to them I say go for it. But passion goes beyond liking Wall Street the movie and admiring Gordon Gekko. If you do not truly enjoy what you do, you won't do it well and you'll miss the tangible benefits that come with it. If that sounds like you, perhaps take the route that many of others have taken and find something beyond wall street that interests you.

jacobzhang.net - my thoughts and portfolio.
"Money doesn't talk, it swears." - Bob Dylan

See my other WSO Blog posts

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Comments

roberto's picture

I think there is a point to

 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 11:30am

I think there is a point to be made here, but I'm not sure comparing entry level IBD analyst aspirations to current CEO life paths was the best way to go about it.

HowardRoark's picture

Very true, but I wasn't

O
(Orangutan, 330
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 11:47am

Very true, but I wasn't trying to compare the two. I used the CBS CEO as someone who didn't have to feel stuck in a position he disliked to achieve great things, which is something I believe a lot of analysts feel is required for their idea of success (whether it be M7, buyside, etc.)

jacobzhang.net - my thoughts and portfolio.

"Money doesn't talk, it swears." - Bob Dylan

See my other WSO Blog posts

TheKing's picture

End of the day, there are

O
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 11:53am

End of the day, there are many, many, many ways to make it in the world. There are very few set paths to take, and having an obsession with taking a single path is bad for your health. Because if you don't make it to the path or fall of the path, you'll find yourself unable to deal with it.

Better to embrace uncertainty and carve your own niche than to follow the tried-and-true (and overly saturated) path.

Check out my WSO Blog

IlliniProgrammer's picture

There are a number of

ST
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 11:56am

There are a number of problems with views and perceptions on Wall Street:

1.) The kid with a 1.9 GPA at UPenn who thinks he's going to be a banker and has people on this very forum telling him such.

2.) The kid with a 2.9 GPA in Hotel Management at SUNY Binghamton who thinks he's going to be a banker.

3.) The kids who were formerly (1) and (2) who are now part of "Occupy Student Loans" because they can't pay off $100K in student debt on a $30K/year job as a hotel worker or artist.

Work hard, play hard.

gammaovertheta's picture

I don't get it. As you say in

ST
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 12:10pm

I don't get it. As you say in the first paragraph, this site is dedicated to giving advice on breaking into finance. Granted, a lot of people on this site aren't cut out for it and are interested in it superficially and for the wrong reasons - I'd say probably more than half of WSO membership in fact. But that doesn't mean that this site is the place to preach about the superiority of other fields (and the CBS CEO's paycheck - what??) either.

EDIT: Illini's comment nailed it by the way

BTbanker's picture

Blankfein is worth 500MM and

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 12:16pm

Blankfein is worth 500MM and just about everyone in the country knows who he is. Nobody on this forum knew who Moonves was. And again, becoming CEO as a Spanish major is an exception, not a rule. Most Spanish majors end up selling tacos and burritos.

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

iRX's picture

Interesting post. I've been

IB
(Orangutan, 260
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 12:17pm

Interesting post. I've been saying the same thing for quite some time now. Happiness > compensation/prestige, bottom line. At the end of the day I don't really care what other people are doing or how they live their lives, but that has been my motto.

HowardRoark's picture

@gammaovertheta, it's not so

O
(Orangutan, 330
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 12:35pm

@gammaovertheta, it's not so much that the media field was "superior," but it's rather offered as an inspiring alternative, given, as you said, how many people aren't cut out for finance

jacobzhang.net - my thoughts and portfolio.

"Money doesn't talk, it swears." - Bob Dylan

See my other WSO Blog posts

darety's picture

You're forgetting one of the

(Baboon, 109
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 1:11pm

You're forgetting one of the main reasons why people go into finance is that it's one of the few industries where unexceptional people can get an exceptional paycheck.

twinb's picture

I see your point but I don't

(Monkey, 32
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 1:24pm

I see your point but I don't think it was articulated in the best way.

It's hilarious to me when people scoff at a $65k salary out of college. According to some if you don't make $100k/yr you must be living in poverty. HYS or bust. IBD or your life is over. It's a ridiculous thought process.

I'm not sure what Moonves has to do with that though. He's obviously an exception, as all CEOs of huge conglomerates are. Only a select few make it there. But then again everyone on WSO is the next David Einhorn.

I think you would've been better served comparing upper management in finance to other industries or even corporate finance. With a lot of hard work and a little luck any really smart person can make it there and probably have a better work-life balance. IBD definitely puts you in a better position to get those positions though.

SirTradesaLot's picture

Julie Chen?

 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 1:26pm

Julie Chen?

Turbo leverage for capital explosion -- BD Capital

My WSO Blog

wso_user's picture

TL;DR: why would you want to

 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 1:33pm

TL;DR: why would you want to become a BB IBD analyst if you had the option of being the CEO of CBS?

Dreamgazing's picture

Damn. Julie chen is pretty

(Baboon, 162
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 1:38pm

Damn. Julie chen is pretty hot.

But back to the topic. This is same thing as high school kids obsessing over Ivy or bust. They are ivies for a reason and they are the "conventional" path to success. People comforting kids rejected by ivies always mention the exceptions like even Jamie Dimon, Tufts if i remember. But these are exceptions. Just look at the bios of all the management at HFs and PE firms that are "making it." And probably even look at F500 CEOs' backgrounds. Probably top 10 schools across the majority of the board.

Same thing can be said of IBD/finance. Conventional path to success + money + exit opps will always be the proven path to what people perceive as success. Sure there are exceptions who might end up broke or never make it past VP. But the majority are still better than the kid stuck at the bottom of the F500 ladder with a DeVry degree.

The obsession with IBD specifically on this forum though is crazy. Looking through asset management forums today made me realized how in-depth the IBD forums are. I don't see much Asset management interview prep.

TeddyTheBear's picture

I think this argument would

IB
(Gorilla, 572
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 1:39pm

I think this argument would have been better if you used a more realistic profession. I know in fact that being a doctor or someone in the medical field is looked as more prestigious than banking in many circles. If your a doctor, it shows that you worked hard to get where you are and enjoy helping people. I just don't understand why nobody wants to be a doctor and everyone wants to be a banker. In terms of salaries, many of my family members are in the medical field. They make much more than bankers and only work 40 hours a week and can take vacations whenever. They have huge houses and nice cars. When they asked me why I didn't go for it, I simply told them that I am not much of a science guy. However, most people here just look at $$$, if this is the case, why banking? If you enjoy then it makes sense, but if you are doing it for money, then you are missing out on much better opportunities with nicer work/life balances.

eliteculture's picture

BTbanker: Blankfein is worth

IB
(Baboon, 129
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 1:46pm
BTbanker:

Blankfein is worth 500MM and just about everyone in the country knows who he is. Nobody on this forum knew who Moonves was. And again, becoming CEO as a Spanish major is an exception, not a rule. Most Spanish majors end up selling tacos and burritos.

dude, you need to get out and social. Outside of finance industry, most people don't know who Blankfein is nor do they care.

Absolut Vodka $29.99, Hyatt Hotel $299, Condoms $9.99. Finding out she swallows... PRICELESS!!! FUCK MASTERCARD IT PAYS TO DISCOVER.

BTbanker's picture

eliteculture: BTbanker: Bla

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 2:41pm

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

BTbanker's picture

TeddyTheBear: I think this

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 2:55pm

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

Beanyeyes5's picture

Coming from someone who's

 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 3:12pm
fearless's picture

I think what the OP said

O
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 3:23pm
moneymogul's picture

BTbanker: Blankfein is worth

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 3:36pm
dolph's picture

People might have heard the

(Monkey, 46
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 3:44pm
Inept Speculator's picture

Howardroark great topic. One

EN
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 4:03pm
HowardRoark's picture

LOL. In retrospect, comparing

O
(Orangutan, 330
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 7:20pm

jacobzhang.net - my thoughts and portfolio.

"Money doesn't talk, it swears." - Bob Dylan

See my other WSO Blog posts

jjjjl241's picture

Was definitely waiting for

(Baboon, 137
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 9:10pm
BTbanker's picture

HowardRoark: However, my

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/6/13 at 11:27pm

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

twinb's picture

I'd say lawyers are even

(Monkey, 32
 
Points)
 on 1/7/13 at 12:52am
evilmindbulgaria's picture

I agree with the OP and am a

AM
(Baboon, 123
 
Points)
 on 1/7/13 at 1:58am
greengohome's picture

twinb: Becoming a doctor

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/7/13 at 7:36am
UK2013plus's picture

i totally agree that there

 
Points)
 on 1/7/13 at 12:50pm
LietuvosBankistas's picture

Game Theory?

O
(Monkey, 43
 
Points)
 on 1/10/13 at 1:18am
IlliniProgrammer's picture

BTbanker: Blankfein is worth

ST
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 1/10/13 at 6:35pm

Work hard, play hard.

BTbanker's picture

IlliniProgrammer: BTbanker:

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/10/13 at 6:46pm

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

streetwannabe's picture

TeddyTheBear: I think this

AM
(King Kong, 1,331
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 1:38pm

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

streetwannabe's picture

streetwannabe: TeddyTheBear

AM
(King Kong, 1,331
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 1:46pm

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

hosken's picture

darety: You're forgetting one

(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 2:37pm
virtu333's picture

It is indeed a bit

IB
(Baboon, 127
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 2:44pm
calikid3820's picture

To say that it not going to

CO
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 2:55pm
StryfeDSP's picture

The reason that careers in

ER
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 3:00pm

If you have a goal in life, think to yourself each day - "What did I do today to help me reach my goal?"

advantageplayer's picture

I'm just kind of addicted.

(Baboon, 103
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 3:14pm
Themistocles's picture

Howard: This is a long and

VC
(Baboon, 105
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 3:39pm

Aei ho theos geōmetreî

Themistocles's picture

hosken: darety: You're

VC
(Baboon, 105
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 3:37pm

Aei ho theos geōmetreî

George Soros's picture

BTbanker: TeddyTheBear: I

 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 4:58pm
George Soros's picture

IlliniProgrammer: There are a

 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 5:35pm
TeddyTheBear's picture

"The average GS employee

IB
(Gorilla, 572
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 5:48pm
IlliniProgrammer's picture

TeddyTheBear: . If you do a

ST
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 1/11/13 at 8:59pm

Work hard, play hard.

para1999's picture

Actually it works as a

IB
(Chimp, 11
 
Points)
 on 1/12/13 at 1:14am

Memory since 1999.

couchy's picture

If you watch Shark Tank,

(King Kong, 1,365
 
Points)
 on 1/12/13 at 1:51am
couchy's picture

If you watch Shark Tank,

(King Kong, 1,365
 
Points)
 on 1/12/13 at 1:51am
lucidfighter's picture

At this point I think I'm set

IB
 
Points)
 on 1/12/13 at 11:26am
money in the banana stand's picture

I think a lot of the 'IBD or

O
(Monkey, 49
 
Points)
 on 1/12/13 at 11:34am

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