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banker career/lifestyle....not all that great? worth it?
 

hellonyc's picture
IB
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 9:40am
monkeybusiness.JPG

Part of why people go into banking vs. any typical "finance analyst" role is the lifestyle. However realistically, what is the point of having an amazing apartment, if you never spend any time in it. I mean I'm not going to rent a 5000/month penthouse if I come home every night and pass out on my bed.
How often do people have time to go to clubs and get tables, when you are working 80-100 hour weeks. From the time I spend as a summer analyst, most departments are not filled with the craziest party animals, many are quite nerdy/shy and/or int'l. (And after working in banking , your only friends will be bankers!). I know that a few groups have a much more "fratty" culture where people tend to be more social after hours, but the majority of groups are rather diverse, in all regards. One fellow intern tried alcohol for the first time at our company party, even after being in college for three years.

As far as I'm concerned, analysts and associates pretty much work the same hours, associates probably have a lighter load on the weekends, but any busy group, will have associates staying till midnight or later on a nightly basis. The only real lifestyle change probably happens at the VP level when your job role shifts towards bringing business in, weekends drop off, but in that case, you start traveling like crazy during the week.

...People talk about doing banking just until going to "buy-side", with less hours and equivalent pay, but unfortunately not everyone gets an opportunity to go to buy-side. For example, out of the twelve analysts in a group I interned with, only four got "legit" exit opps in PE/HF, 2 stayed on for a third year and are incredibly depressed, and the other six picked up general finance roles at typical companies taking a huge paycut, one guy went be a worker at training the street. Remind you that these guys had great deal flow and went to top schools! Even when you get to PE/HF, hours may be much less, but stress levels/responsibilities are sky high. Finnaly most places kick you out after two years, until you get an mba. FYI- getting into a top mba school is not easy!! Finally getting a PE/HF job after b-school is even harder because they are making a long term commitment to you, and the competition within each b-school is cut throat.

As far as prestige goes, first lets say that bankers will never have the prestige of doctors, firefighters, scientists, judges (not lawyers lol), and some politicians and other doing-good for humanity professions. Second, I don't think the general public has any idea the difference between banking and general financial analyst roles, girls certainly don't know the difference Most don't understand the difference between retail and investment banks, they think you work the same place where people deposit their weekly paychecks. not to mention the difference between back and front office, operations vs. IB, most think its all the same. ....And if you put prestige aside, then you can earn a great salary running a small business, for example- my 26 year old cousin owns two verizon franchise stores (running a cell phone store isn't rocket science) and makes 350K a year, hired store managers and now is working only 20-30 hours a week, real estate investing on the side just for fun because he doesn't know what else to do with all his extra cash, while his job is not dealmaking, he is happy and living the life, he has time to go out at night, and go out to dinner, have friends, hamptons in the summer, miami breaks in winter, int'l vacations, and when he goes to work everyday he is the boss. nobody to answer to.

My question is now that the "prestige" of banking is no longer there, the bonuses sure ain't what they used to be, and exit opps are harder and harder to get, ibanking decreases your chances at b-school due to the overabundance of ibanking applicants, and the lifestyle kills your social/relationship life.....is banking worth it? 9/10 of people are in it for the money, prestige, and so-called lifestyle, not because they like sitting in a cubicle staring at an excel spreadsheet.

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Newbie_banker's picture

I agree with the part about

IB
(Baboon, 110
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 10:10am

I agree with the part about exit opps to buyside being not as good as it used to be. In my class, only 1/3 - 1/2 of the analysts have got buyside gigs. The rest are staying on for a third year or doing some random stuff outside banking that they would have been able to get straight out of college. This is for a top BB.

IB13's picture

I came to this realization

IB
(Monkey, 36
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 10:29am

I came to this realization after reading Monkey Business and Bank:a novel by David Bledin. It's been a choice between trading and Ibanking for me, now I'm fixated on trading. I'm in Canada so there are no annoying restrictions being imposed, which means as long as I'm laying the golden eggs I'll be paid accordingly.

Ibanking is a good career choice if you are willing to sell 5 years of your life.

bleedblue82's picture

your cousin at verizon has

CO
(Baboon, 132
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 10:56am

your cousin at verizon has maxed out at 350k. an ibanker can top that easily by 26, if they're good...

l2010's picture

I think you're 100%

O
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 11:10am

I think you're 100% right.....But people will still try to go into banking in HOPES of money, prestige, and so-called lifestyle.

monty09's picture

who cares. do whatever makes

EN
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 11:42am

who cares. do whatever makes YOU happy. I did not enter the biz cause it was a "prestige-factor" but because I liked it and it was fun... I am on the trading side so a little different but stil a plug in the big machine. I actually like that no one knows what I do or how I do it.

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hellonyc's picture

bleedblue82, you are

IB
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 11:46am

bleedblue82, you are comparing apples to oranges.
with cell phone stores, its actually its just a matter of opening new franchise stores to earn more money. there are guys older than him that have a mini-empire of stores just like any small franchise. However that will require more work and will make it harder for him to vacation as much as he does, and he happy making 350k working only 20-30 hours a week, rather than opening 15 locations and working 60 hours a week.

Second, remember that bonuses get taxed at different rates than actual income, thus 350k in banking, verses, 350k in actual salary income are far different.

Third, there is a huge difference in hours required. keyword: hours!

Finally, after a certain salary, I would say about 500,000 dollars, your lifestyle doesn't change much, especially if you are single. My cousin realized that there isn't much he would want that you can't afford on 350k salary that you can afford with a 1Mil+ salary. A lot people don't realize this, but after a while, buying more clothes, going out every night, living in a huge apartment which you are never in, it gets old just like everything else. 5000 rolex vs. 50000 rolex, whatever its still a rolex, it still tells time. 1 bedroom apartment vs. 4 bedroom apartment, are you going to that much happier knowing that you live in an apartment that has three bedrooms which you don't use?

What doesn't get old is the freedom of being your own boss, making your own hours, and having good friends to share your money with. Two things banking fails to provide.

johnnyd's picture

^ true. but if the verizon

IB
(Monkey, 52
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 11:51am

^ true. but if the verizon thing didn't work out for your cousin what would he do?

hellonyc's picture

monty09, you bring up a good

IB
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 11:52am

monty09,
you bring up a good point, do what makes you happy, but how many IB analysts can honestly say that what they are actually doing is making them happy?... If we are all chasing after happiness, is banking the best game plan there? I think many are chasing after prestige and money, I know thats what got me interested in the profession.

on another note, trading does offer a much better work life balance, however I think this posting was much more geared towards IB.

hellonyc's picture

johnnyd, verizon was just one

IB
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 11:56am

johnnyd,
verizon was just one example, there are plenty of franchises and small businesses you can open. Another guy I know owns a car wash and makes similar money, and his passion in life is tennis and he didn't make it pro, so the car wash allows him to play/coach tennis all day while earning big bucks. It was more just to illustrate that there are plenty of people earning big bucks, they just don't have the most prestigious or high-profile job.

The Phantom's picture

hellonyc, are you that scared

HF
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 12:20pm

hellonyc, are you that scared of competition?

And also, most of us are doing banking for EXPERIENCE and EXIT OPS, not money or lifestyle.

eiffeltowered's picture

entrepreneuship is the way to

IB
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 12:22pm

entrepreneuship is the way to go...hell if you're young you have nothing to lose. If you win, you win big. And it makes for a great bschool app story if you want to go this route eventually.

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hellonyc's picture

pussinboots, it has nothing

IB
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 12:36pm

pussinboots, it has nothing to do with competition, there is competition everywhere, and interesting you would make such a comment with such a "fearless" screen name like puss in boots.
second, i would disagree that the majority of people are not in it for money and lifestyle. Experience is very generic term. and I mentioned before that exit-ops that are only available to banking analyst, are few. most will go to jobs that could have been attained without banking.

johnnyd's picture

for me, honestly, it's a

IB
(Monkey, 52
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 12:50pm

for me, honestly, it's a matter of risk...even if the exit ops aren't what they used to be, it's still a beaten path...i know what my options are.

doing something like the verizon or car wash while equally as lucrative, it's kind of like a shot in the dark. i have no idea where it will take me, what my next step would be, etc

banking is risky, no doubt, but i feel like it's less risky in the sense that there's a laid out path.

johnnyd's picture

i hate risk and not knowing

IB
(Monkey, 52
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 12:51pm

i hate risk and not knowing what my step is/should be, or where my current position will take me. banking gives me that sense of certainty.

moneyneversleeps2's picture

Go into IB for the right

IB
(Orangutan, 256
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 1:04pm

Go into IB for the right reasons

Prestige is in the eye of the beholder. You call doctors prestigious, I call them drug dealers/pimps with white coats. Politicians and doing good for humanity?! It took George Bush 5 days to get down to Katrina victims but he could get our troops over to Iraq within 12 hours to fight terrorists (hem hem oil money). Once again in the eye of the beholder. A lawyer and judge let OJ walk...enough said. Bottom line is don't look at the money, look at getting a job first and proving yourself. Wall Street doesn't just hand out 7 figure bonus checks, you have to eat what you kill. As someone mentioned before you cannot compare a franchise owner to an Investment Banker. An I-banker that works on deals and works on getting his bank deals can easily have a million dollar comp package by the time he's 30. Don't start blowing your money on cars, watches, parties and women and you can easily retire at 35. Can your buddy at Verizon say that?

econ's picture

OP, I think you make some

O
(Neanderthal, 2,416
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 1:24pm

For my aspiring Entrepreneurial Nomads, check out my blog.

Mzz's picture

So you were an SA? Are you

O
(King Kong, 1,506
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 1:33pm
johnnyd's picture

Lol, Mezz.

IB
(Monkey, 52
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 1:40pm
rogger.potter's picture

hellonyc great post, I agree

O
(Baboon, 112
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 2:42pm
milkman84's picture

This thread serves no

IB
(Gorilla, 729
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 2:51pm

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CompBanker's picture

hellonyc wrote: Second,

PE
(Almost Human, 8,507
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 2:53pm

CompBanker

boutiquebank4life's picture

brisbane wrote: This thread

IB
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 3:12pm
cheese86's picture

Thanks compbanker. You beat

HF
(Gorilla, 576
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 3:12pm
macro's picture

It depends on what money

HF
(Gorilla, 555
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 4:10pm
TigerWoods's picture

Quotes, Macro?

IB
(Baboon, 101
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 5:48pm
Stringer Bell's picture

[quote=lg0718 An I-banker

PE
(King Kong, 1,679
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 6:54pm
Newbie_banker's picture

hellonyc wrote: What doesn't

IB
(Baboon, 110
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 7:27pm
boutiquebank4life's picture

Depends at what level. I

IB
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 7:30pm
Bondarb's picture

there is a huge difference

HF
(Neanderthal, 2,283
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 8:51pm
Stringer Bell's picture

pretty simple actually why

PE
(King Kong, 1,679
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 9:17pm
fibows's picture

First off, to the O/P, I

 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 10:13pm
SAC's picture

I have mixed feelings about

HF
(King Kong, 1,171
 
Points)
 on 2/14/10 at 10:37pm

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macro's picture

Bondarb wrote: there is a

HF
(Gorilla, 555
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 12:01am
mxc's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?

O
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 6:44am
eysl's picture

lol, you made it sound so

O
(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 10:48am
openOutcry's picture

god forbid someone be

IB
(Baboon, 110
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 11:04am
econ's picture

eysl wrote: i agree with

O
(Neanderthal, 2,416
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 11:13am

For my aspiring Entrepreneurial Nomads, check out my blog.

IlliniProgrammer's picture

The whole point of working in

ST
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 12:25pm

Work hard, play hard.

lindamas's picture

hellonyc did you get rejected

IB
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 12:16pm
eysl's picture

econ, he's some special kind

O
(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 12:29pm
hellonyc's picture

interesting perspectives, as

IB
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 1:04pm
job71188's picture

I'm not in I-banking so my

O
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 1:06pm
gamenumbers's picture

you have to truly enjoy the

IB
(Gorilla, 678
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 1:53pm
SAC's picture

You're right on most counts

HF
(King Kong, 1,171
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 3:22pm

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M-001's picture

In addition, a good friend of

IB
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 4:29pm
The Phantom's picture

hellonyc wrote: My summer

HF
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 5:14pm
hellonyc's picture

as i mentioned before, this

IB
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 5:13pm
The Phantom's picture

hellonyc, I take my words

HF
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 5:41pm
M-001's picture

hellonyc wrote: as i

IB
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 5:33pm
moneyneversleeps2's picture

Well said MC 002 If you love

IB
(Orangutan, 256
 
Points)
 on 2/15/10 at 5:47pm

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