what does it mean to "spread comps"

I keep reading that SA's will mainly be "spreading comps"...probably a naive question but I was wondering what this entails...thanks!

Spreading comps

from certified user @dosk17"

Spreading comps in 6 easy steps:

1) Look up the company's filings (10-k and 10-q) on Capital IQ.

2) Pull equity research on the company from whatever sources you use.

3) Enter the company's cash, debt, share count (and options table if you want to be precise to get the diluted count) from the latest filing.

4) Enter the company's trailing-twelve-months revenue and EBITDA (and probably more metrics depending on industry but let's just keep this general for now) by:

a) Entering revenue from latest 10-Q and 10-K and then subtracting revenue from 10-Q a year ago.

b) Entering EBITDA from latest 10-Q and 10-K and then subtracting EBITDA from 10-Q a year ago. To find EBITDA, start with Operating Income and add back the Depreciation & Amortization on the cash flow statement as well as any one-time charges... comb the footnotes of the filing for one-time and unusual charges like lawsuits, settlements, etc. and add them back. This is the fun part of the process.

5) Enter projections from equity research analyst... usually two years forward (so 2008 and 2009). Look up the revenue and EBITDA from report and enter them.

6) Make sure everything ties out and get your multiples... in this case, TEV/R and TEV/EBITDA.

Repeat the above for each company in the comp set... usually 5-10, but can be more depending on how sadistic the senior bankers are.

from certified user @ermen"

with a lot of pain... screaming and crying...

from certified user @dosk17"

Also guys I should note: you may not have to actually do all of the above. It depends on what you're doing it for - sometimes CapIQ is acceptable, as numi says.

Keyser: As far as speed, if you do it that way it will take hours for 10 companies. Focus on accuracy first, then worry about speed.

numi: For Fairness Opinions for example, you can't just rely on CapIQ because everything needs to be 100% precise. And if you have an anal Associate/VP on a normal project the same applies

A video on rundown spreading comps.


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Best Response

(just kidding)

Spreading comps in 6 easy steps:

1) Look up the company's filings (10-k and 10-q) on Capital IQ.

2) Pull equity research on the company from whatever sources you use.

3) Enter the company's cash, debt, share count (and options table if you want to be precise to get the diluted count) from the latest filing.

4) Enter the company's trailing-twelve-months revenue and EBITDA (and probably more metrics depending on industry but let's just keep this general for now) by:

a) Entering revenue from latest 10-Q and 10-K and then subtracting revenue from 10-Q a year ago.

b) Entering EBITDA from latest 10-Q and 10-K and then subtracting EBITDA from 10-Q a year ago. To find EBITDA, start with Operating Income and add back the Depreciation & Amortization on the cash flow statement as well as any one-time charges... comb the footnotes of the filing for one-time and unusual charges like lawsuits, settlements, etc. and add them back. This is the fun part of the process.

5) Enter projections from equity research analyst... usually two years forward (so 2008 and 2009). Look up the revenue and EBITDA from report and enter them.

6) Make sure everything ties out and get your multiples... in this case, TEV/R and TEV/EBITDA.

Repeat the above for each company in the comp set... usually 5-10, but can be more depending on how sadistic the senior bankers are.

Have fun

 

dosk, why do you have to go through all of those steps? all the historical data you mentioned should already be in capital IQ and all you need to do is run a company screen. why do you need to manually enter that data?

​* http://www.linkedin.com/in/numicareerconsulting
 

Also guys I should note: you may not have to actually do all of the above. It depends on what you're doing it for - sometimes CapIQ is acceptable, as numi says.

Keyser: As far as speed, if you do it that way it will take hours for 10 companies. Focus on accuracy first, then worry about speed.

numi: For Fairness Opinions for example, you can't just rely on CapIQ because everything needs to be 100% precise. And if you have an anal Associate/VP on a normal project the same applies.

 

Our comps come just from the 10-k and 10-q, rarely do we look to thomson or capiq for comps. We 'personalize' the comps and make necessary "value-adding" by ajusting some numbers. Comps do take a while though. I agree with dosk, ACCURANCY FIRST.

It definetly helps to have accounting knowledge. But data-entry skills are probably more important (gasp)

 

Why is it called "spreading" comps, though? I don't see what you are spreading when you gather information and input it into Excel.

Also this might be a little off-topic, but what's the difference between interest and amortization in EBITDA? Aren't they both debts you pay off at certain rates over a period of time?

 
joefish:
pacmandefense:

do SAs source deals?

SAs source coffee and if you're lucky, bagels

I had to source beer during my stint....

There's a closer meaning to my user name. Try reading it quickly. Perhaps you will then understand ;P
 

Is big 4 really that bad? How much do they pay? I heard work life balance is great there though. If I intern at a Big 4 this summer will I have any shot at banking for full time?

 

As much as i'd love to partake in the OP bashing, I'll play along. Comps stands for "comparables." There are two main types: (1) Comparable public company trading multiples analysis and (2) comparable transaction multiples analysis.

  1. Comparable public company trading multiples analysis (more generally, "comps") involve looking at similar public companies (similar by industry, business model, size, location, etc.) and mainly how their enterprise value relates to revenue, EBITDA, EBIT.

  2. Comparable transaction multiples analysis (more generally, "transaction comps" or "M&A comps") involves looking at precedent M&A transactions in the same industry going back 3-5 years. Once again, this mainly looks at implied enterprise value from the transaction and how it relates to the target company's revenue, EBITDA and EBIT.

The goal of all these metrics is to come up with relevant mean and mean "multiples" and using them to determine a target company's value based on its peers and its industry's historical transactions.

...there may be a few holes in my explanation so please fill them, WSO.

-- Support WSO.com and visit these links! Financial Modeling Training Guide to Finance Interviews
 

Thanks jackofalltrades.

I thought it was that.

And to all the haters, I do not work in IB, or transaction services like that in big4, so I wasnt quite sure, I thought maybe it was some specialised term in IB, geez sorry for using a forum thats meant to help on these things for something like that??

and you pussinboots are a wanker. If you think I was trying to be funny there, you are the one who lacks any decent sort of sense of humour

Big 4 Accounting Guide to Getting Hired Contains interview questions, exactly how to answer, resume guide, how to make an impact and a guide to the firms and service lines.
 

If all you did was spread comps all day every day, 12 or so hours a day, I would think you could write down something like "Performed extensive comparable company analysis," or add on something like "for more than one dozen prospective clients" or something like that.

To take a run at the other question, whether your own modeling efforts to learn the models when nothing is going on can go on your resume, I would say generally no, unless 1) you don't have any other modeling experience at any other internship or 2) you need to fill up the position space with something related to banking in the case of you not doing much of anything besides admin stuff or the like for the summer (no deals going on, not more than a couple of light pitches, etc.)

IBanker www.BankonBanking.com [email protected] Articles, News, Advice and More Break Into Investment Banking

 

1)When doing comparable company analysis, the EV is the total value of Debt + Equity in the firm. You look at the most recent 10q or 10k which ever is newest and look at the B/S.

2) When finding multiples, lets say EV/EBITDA, you take the trailing 12 months of EBITDA. To Do that, you take the EBITDA on the most recent 10Q add that to the EBITDA of the 10K and subtract out the EBITDA from the original 10Q you looked at from a year ago. If you are looking at the 10Q, you will subtract the EBITDA shown on the far right from the same time period a year ago. Also, remember when looking at EBITDA make sure to add back in any unusualy expenses or charges and deduct any unusual revenues. To do this, you need to read the footnotes of the 10Q/K and see where the numbers are coming from.

Hope this helps.

 
wanabeinfinance:
1)When doing comparable company analysis, the EV is the total value of Debt + Equity in the firm. You look at the most recent 10q or 10k which ever is newest and look at the B/S.

2) When finding multiples, lets say EV/EBITDA, you take the trailing 12 months of EBITDA. To Do that, you take the EBITDA on the most recent 10Q add that to the EBITDA of the 10K and subtract out the EBITDA from the original 10Q you looked at from a year ago. If you are looking at the 10Q, you will subtract the EBITDA shown on the far right from the same time period a year ago. Also, remember when looking at EBITDA make sure to add back in any unusualy expenses or charges and deduct any unusual revenues. To do this, you need to read the footnotes of the 10Q/K and see where the numbers are coming from.

Hope this helps.

Thanks man, but I already knew the topics you covered. My questions are:

  1. When we do TRANSACTION COMPs, do we use EV or purchase price? If we use EV, wouldn't it be equal to public comps EV? Then won't we get the same multiples number?

  2. So we only use LTM EBITDA? I read somewhere that people use forward numbers because it's more accurate (sometimes current metric can be affected by one time charges)

Thanks!

 

1.With transaction comps you use the pr the transaction occurred at, so with an acquisition you would use a purchase price.

  1. At my internship, when I do comps I use TTM EBITDA and Rev. The only time I use a forward pr is expected 1 yr forward P/E and I do a TTM P/E.

Note: All the experience I have is the internship I am at rt now, but thats how I was taught.

 

Transaction comps represent a majority interest valuation, whereas public comps represent a minority-based valuation methodology. As was said above, transaction comps show what the M&A market values related companies with respect to a control premium; public comps don't reflect a control premium, but theoretically they reflect a liquidity premium. Majority ownership has higher value than minority ownership.

 

When I worked in M&A, the public comps were a 30 minute exercise (as you said, CapIQ and some equity research). Transaction comps took a bit longer, since you had to search for multiples on private deals. Not rocket science though, just more of a research pain in the ass.

- Capt K - "Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
 

If the company is public, I generally check their most recent 10-k under the header "Competition." Lots of companies will list 5-6 direct competitors.

Then I'll check 2-3 research reports and check the comps listed there.

At that point, if needed, I'll take a look at CapIQ but it's generally unnecessary.

If the company is private, I'll try to define the most direct public comp and then run the above process using that company. Should only take a half-hour or so.

 

Wow.

I'm surprised at how half ass some of you do this.

I generally canvas research reports and Capital IQ Comp screens. I also refer to the competitor section of SEC filings as some of you mentioned.

Then I narrow it down based on relevant metrics (e.g. revenue, geography, etc...). Once I have a manageable list of potentials, I'll comb through each of the companies business descriptions in Capital IQ, researching them in each of their SEC filings where necessary to get more detail on products, business model, etc... to see if they are really comparable or not.

I don't think its ever taken me less than half a day. I'm interested to know if this is just something I've picked up at my firm, or if most people in restructuring do a similarly painstaking development of a comp universe. It could just be a restructuring thing since anything you do can potentially be scrutinized/invalidated in court.... or it could just be my firm's practice.

Any other restructuring monkeys want to chime in?

 
Marcus_Halberstram:
Wow.

I'm surprised at how half ass some of you do this.

I generally canvas research reports and Capital IQ Comp screens. I also refer to the competitor section of SEC filings as some of you mentioned.

Then I narrow it down based on relevant metrics (e.g. revenue, geography, etc...). Once I have a manageable list of potentials, I'll comb through each of the companies business descriptions in Capital IQ, researching them in each of their SEC filings where necessary to get more detail on products, business model, etc... to see if they are really comparable or not.

I don't think its ever taken me less than half a day. I'm interested to know if this is just something I've picked up at my firm, or if most people in restructuring do a similarly painstaking development of a comp universe. It could just be a restructuring thing since anything you do can potentially be scrutinized/invalidated in court.... or it could just be my firm's practice.

Any other restructuring monkeys want to chime in?

The firm I interned at did it pretty much the same.

It always took me a long time. I wasnt sure if it was because I was a measly intern and didnt know what I was doing, but it seemed that the analysts took a bit of time as well.

We really drilled down into the business descriptions in CapIQ and searched their websites for any info to see if they were a real comparable company. If not the output is essentially useless..

The focus at the firm wasnt mainly restructuring, however there were a few restructuring deals happening during my time there.

 

Marcus,

It might be a restructuring thing. I work in an industry group (albeit, a very broad industry group), so we generally have an idea of the comp universe we're looking at. That may be why my process is so simple. My MD, generally speaking, has an idea of what comps he wants in there anyway, so I just toss a list together based on previously mentioned methods and he'll take a look, pare it down, add some missing names he deems relevant, and we'll go from there. Obviously the time and effort put into determining comps is highly dependent on how important the assignment is... i.e. intro book, we'll have comps chosen in about 5 minutes. Bakeoff for a big M&A assignment? A bit more time.

But ya... I'm guessing if I were a generalist in the M&A group and we were pitching all over the place, much more time would be spent determining comps given the lack of industry-specific knowledge.

 

If you work in a big group like FIG or TMT, your group already has a standard set of comps that it uses for the different industry subsectors. For fixed line telcos there will be a set of 5-6 companies, for mid-size cable companies another set of companies, wireless ...same,etc. The seniors will always tell you what comps they want in the presentation-and it will always be comps that the group "maintains" or updates every quarter. One of the analyst's duties is to update their comps with the latest quarterly info taken from 10Qs (cash, debt, options, investments, minority interests). Once these are updated every quarter, you just need to change the date in the main excel mode and hit refreshl-that in turn will update your comps with the latest Real Time MARKET information (share price, broker estimates) from whatever service provider your bank uses (Factset, CapIQ) - assuming your model is all linked up to Factset and ready to go. You then go to the output sheet to get whatever multiples you're interested in (FV/EBITDA, FV/SALES, FV/Subs, etc).

 
wamartinu:
If you work in a big group like FIG or TMT, your group already has a standard set of comps that it uses for the different industry subsectors. For fixed line telcos there will be a set of 5-6 companies, for mid-size cable companies another set of companies, wireless ...same,etc. The seniors will always tell you what comps they want in the presentation-and it will always be comps that the group "maintains" or updates every quarter. One of the analyst's duties is to update their comps with the latest quarterly info taken from 10Qs (cash, debt, options, investments, minority interests). Once these are updated every quarter, you just need to change the date in the main excel mode and hit refreshl-that in turn will update your comps with the latest Real Time MARKET information (share price, broker estimates) from whatever service provider your bank uses (Factset, CapIQ) - assuming your model is all linked up to Factset and ready to go. You then go to the output sheet to get whatever multiples you're interested in (FV/EBITDA, FV/SALES, FV/Subs, etc).

Spot on

 

yeah..usually if you work in something very specific (tech for exmaple), your md will have a general idea of which companies to throw into the comps

I do

1.Competition under 10k 2.Research report from Thomson 3.Previous comp used before for that industry ( usually will be some overlaps in tech)

It shouldn't take more than 1 hour to get all this.

It might be a rest thing to do it for half a day...

 

To build on kidflash's comment, what's the best way to explain/defend if I only ran these comps in a basic sense of the word?

Yes, I did adjust to get things on an LTM basis, but I didn't scour every financial statement to add back in non-recurring charges, and the EV figure was generated by CapIQ.

 

How are you choosing comps- 1. Industry 2. Size 3. Geographic location

Which multiples are you looking at- name a few of the key ones - EV/EBIT, EV/EBITDA, P/E, maybe a revenue multiple Be prepared to discuss why you would use each one or what each one represents.

I really can't imagine someone would grill you that deep into this, though who knows. I've never personally been asked about comps beyond a pretty basic level, but I also don't emphasize it to a real degree on my resume.

 

Just to give you my background, I worked in Equity Research over the summer so I have good experience doing plenty of comps, as well as building numerous forecasting models (fully linked IS/BS/CF/Debt Sweeps). I am by no means an expert, so take my 2 cents for what it is worth (and still in undergrad myself).

I will first say that you should NEVER put anything on your resume that you can't properly explain as your first bullet point for any experience. You are basically just opening up "Pandora's Box." I used to have a line at the bottom of my resume under the heading other training that said something along the lines of "Completed LBO/M&A class with WST". While I did do this, instead of getting basic LBO M&A questions like "what is an Accretive deal vs. dilutive" I would get something along the lines of "Ok I see you have experience with LBO modeling, please walk me through how one would you run a Triangulation IRR analysis after you complete your pro-forma statements." Not fun when you really don't know how off the top of your head, and for the most part shouldn't right out of under-grad.

That being said the way I would attack that question is in a 2-3 minute summary showing that you know comps. They are most likely not as interested in telling them how to build them , as they are the most simple kind of model to build (if you can even really consider it a model).

"Well a Comparable Analysis of any kind is a way to look at similar companies within an industry or sector, and is a form of relative valuation (due to the subject company being compared to its most direct competitors). The three main styles of comps are Transaction, Fundamental and Valuation (sometime called market comps). In Transaction comps you are trying to show premiums paid for companies (normally in terms of EV/EVBITDA) to help decide what kind a premium you should pay for a similar company (or in contrast if you think a company is a takeover target and the possible upside if purchasing the stock before a deal is announced). In Fundamental Comps you are looking at current year and consensus estimates of similar companies to see what firm has the highest (or lowest) growth potential. Some items found in a fundamental Comp are stock price, shares outstanding, market cap, revenue, ebit and eps (just to name some). With Valuation comps you look trailing and forward ratios to see how the market is valuing that firm. Ratios such as EV/EBITDA, EV/Revenue, P/E, P/B, PEG, Yield are used to try and see what company may be the most under/over valued in comparison. You can do this by looking for a company that has a really low P/E in comparison to others, and see if that valuation is justified by the fundamental comps (low P/E should = low EPS growth, if for some reasons this is not the case it may be undervalued, more research is needed to fully determine this). You want all these figures apples to apples so I would personally use Calender year figures Vs. Fiscal Year."

I think this is a much better answer then telling them how to build one. It shows you understand the practical application of the Comparable Analysis. Anyone can read a interview guide to tell them how to do a calculation.

Also note that telling them that EV was computed by CapIQ is a one way ticket to no offer.

EV = Market Cap + Pref Stock + Minority Interests + (Debt - Cash) where, (Debt-Cash) = Net Debt

Why? Because this is the theoretical value of a firm if you purchased it today (with no premium). You would need to buy out the shareholders (market cap), Pref stock holders, purchase the minority interests and the debt, using the cash to pay down whatever debt you could. Another way to think of this is that cash is already accounted for in the value of the equity (market cap), so adding this would be double counting cash. Investors look at cash on hand when valuing companies, this is the rational behind this.

Good luck.

 

Thanks for the detailed answer. I certainly can explain how/why I constructed the comp set; my intention in this post was to find the strongest way to explain it. I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of avoiding a simple mechanical explanation.

If you were interviewing me, would you expect me to have really specific metrics (i.e. how much debt company XYZ has) committed to memory? Or is it more important to understand why debt is added to EV? I have similar concerns in terms of share count dilution and adjustments. I understand these items but did not mechanically do them in this particular case.

 
BillyJean111:
Thanks for the detailed answer. I certainly can explain how/why I constructed the comp set; my intention in this post was to find the strongest way to explain it. I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of avoiding a simple mechanical explanation.

If you were interviewing me, would you expect me to have really specific metrics (i.e. how much debt company XYZ has) committed to memory? Or is it more important to understand why debt is added to EV? I have similar concerns in terms of share count dilution and adjustments. I understand these items but did not mechanically do them in this particular case.

Debt is added to EV because if the company were to be purchased today, who ever is purchasing the company will take on any debt held by the company pre-acquisition/merger

essentially debt is added as a way to value the company in its entirety.

 

Well I have never been asked, walk me through how to build a comp table. So that being said, if you really feel that you need an efficient way to say how, I would just write down how you did it over the summer on a word document and try to simplify it in a minute or two. There is no shame in saying "My boss had all the summer analysts use CapIQ to gather information, then we would re-format it in the companies templates." You are doing what your boss said.

I don't think you need to worry about about how to compute dilution (treasury stock method) perfectly. I will say understanding that there is a relationship between the average strike of the options outstanding, and the current price now is how diluted shares is computed is a good to know just in case. Def never got that question.

What I have noticed on all of my big firm interviews is that they really don't care If you know everything 100%, it's more just how you answer them, and if you can deal with the stress of the typical finance interview. Its funny how finance is a BS (Bachelor of science), but it is really more of an art with applied science techniques. Especially in Equity Research.

That being said, no one is going to ask you every fundamental metric and/or Valuation metric. At least in my experience. I have always noticed that if you can explain WHY you do something, it goes 100% further then just saying the right answer.

A good example is when I was once asked how to calculate Free Cash Flow. Anyone can read an guide and say "You take EBIT*(1-Tax rate)+D&A-Capex+/- Change in working capital = FCF."

But in my personal opinion if you say "You take EBIT (because it is profit before tax and interests, after all expenses)*(1-Tax Rate) (because of the interest tax shield investors see with debt reducing tax liabilities)+D&A(Due to it being a non-cash deduction due to accounting regulations for capitalized expenses)-Capex(what you need to maintain and/or broaden the base)+/-Changes in NWC(the amount of CASH that is currently tied up in a business)=FCF(the amount of CASH available to Shareholders/Debtholders after this period)" Is a 100x better answer.

It shows that you have put some thought into WHY you do it. If you understand why you do something, it makes the process very trivial. More of a logical expression then some math equation that you read someplace. It shows that your interested in the reasoning behind the answer, and what it actually implies; shows that you have a real passion for business finance. Not because that you want a job that pays 65K+ a year plus 10k signing bonus and other bonuses right out of school, way higher then the avg american household.

As far as specifics go for debt and what not, on banking interviews no. Most banks will work with numerous sectors, and there is now way for you to know every sectors avg Debt/Cap Ratio or Debt/Equity. If the firm your worked for over the summer focuses on one sector then you better know that sector decently well. I worked in Technology, more specifically Server and Storage OEM's. On any interview I could say what we would look at when valuing any Server/Storage Firm. The metrics that are most looked at by investors. Most importantly, why they are important to investors.

If you were interviewing for a Corp Dev team, then I would say you better research that company's industry like the back of your hand.

Again they are looking for people that have good reasoning skills. That can handle stressful situations. Sometimes you may get a question that you cant answer, and that is fine. Can you reason your way through it? Then ask the interviewer if that is the appropriate methodology? You don't know what you don't know, and you wont know until you ask.

Again just my 2 cents.

 

Dude, you need to chill out and stop worrying. All your posts sound frantic as you are worried that you are not getting relevant experience / how to phrase something on a resume. The work you are doing is what IB analysts do, and with the functionality of Cap IQ, this is how you "spread comps". You can have Cap IQ pull warrants, options, convertible debt, etc, and build in an IF function to use the treasury method to calc fully diluted share O/S. In some instances, you will comb through a filing to find non-recurring items to add back to EBITDA, but it depends on the VP and on the project.

I promise you will get more out of your internship if you sit back, soak in everything your learning, and try to become an expert at all of the tasks you are assigned rather than worrying about how you will position this experience. If I remember correctly, you are a sophomore? If so, you are getting extremely relevant experience for next summer.

 

Comps are often outsourced to India, at least that was the case at my BB. We used Copal, and once you got them set up and doing the right adjustments (took a few quarters) they did a good job. Obviously you have to check through them and still do it as a training exercise, but comps aren't very value add.

Also, we always just had a snow plow come to do our driveway.

So, I'm gonna go with the more expensive to outsource, which is comps.

--There are stupid questions, so think first.
 
LondonE1:
What should I expect to learn from the training week? What do they usually go over?
LondonE1:
just relax until the summer...you will have plenty of opportunities to practice spreading comps and precedent...
 

Sorry bud - didn't mean to give you something you weren't looking for. FWIW, London didn't ask you if you would ever want to work with him, but you still chimed in on that front.

I would guess that, most likely, you'll be using Excel '07. I know at my boutique they do, but I can only speak for my bank.

 

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  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

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