Will You Buy Your Fiance a Diamond Ring?
It's not very common that a private company's marketing campaign goes viral. It's even rarer that one is able to push their brand into mainstream English vocabulary (read: Zamboni, Kleenex, Google etc). However placing your product at the center of societies most important social ritual? That's probably only been done once by a monopolist named De Beers, with the common mineral: Diamonds.
American males enter adulthood through a peculiar rite of passage - they spend most of their savings on a shiny piece of rock... Americans exchange diamond rings as part of the engagement process, because in 1938 De Beers decided that they would like us to. Prior to a stunningly successful marketing campaign 1938, Americans occasionally exchanged engagement rings, but wasn’t a pervasive occurrence.
The De Beers marketing machine continued to churn out the hits. They circulated marketing materials suggesting, apropos of nothing, that a man should spend one month’s salary on a diamond ring. It worked so well that De Beers arbitrarily decided to increase the suggestion to two months salary. That’s why you think that you need to spend two month’s salary on a ring - because the suppliers of the product said so.Today, over 80% of women in the US receive diamond rings when they get engaged. The domination is complete.
The supply of diamonds is basically controlled by one company that in turn convinced everyone that what it was selling is valuable.
As a naive undergrad student I think it's weird how people shell out big money for diamonds and other jewelry. I understand things like fine wine and art, because of their rarity, but diamonds aren't rare and perfect stones can be synthesized nowadays. It seems like a product that is bought only because it is expensive.
Will you buy one if your significant other wanted it?
Source:
Diamonds are a Sham and it's Time We Stopped Getting Engaged With Them
If you plan on not getting your wife a diamond ring, all I can say is, good luck.
Was actually talking about this at work the other day because an associate I work with is getting ready to propose. Agree w/ CorpFinanceGuy....if you don't buy your fiancee a diamond ring, good luck....
100% agree. Unless she specifically asks for something other than a diamond...suck it up.
I'm sure there are women out there who don't put much value on diamond rings because they know better. I'm speaking for myself at least.
Good for you. Unfortunately, I have to believe that you are the exception and not the rule...
I won't. I agree that the rarity of diamonds is misconceived; the big diamond companies control the supply that arrives at market, creating artificial scarcity. The reason why they're so expensive is mainly because these companies stockpile a bunch of diamonds and then sell them in low supply relative to the total amount of diamonds they have stockpiled.
Not a chance. Ethics aside, it's worthless.
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Just went through the process of buying one. All I can say is the money you drop acquiring one will mean nothing compared to the impact on your life and finances if you chose the wrong person.
Just deal with it and shell out the cash.
Get a cube Z. Why people continue to mindlessly do what they are told they have to do is beyond me. Worst case scenario is she breaks with you which isn't an issue since you'll have your 20-30k or whatever and can easily find another woman.
Must be some girl that is worth less to you than a couple k...I guess another girl like that shouldn't be too difficult to find
Cube Z are more expensive for smaller stones than diamonds. They marginally get cheaper as you go big, at 2 carat you are in the money with a Z. Otherwise they look like a Z, and I can tell easily by the naked eye that it's a Z.
//www.youtube.com/embed/uwGJhrcLmbA
good sh*t
Yes, I will
Yes
I was dead set on getting her one but she said multiple times that she doesn't want a diamond ring or any ring with a large stone in it. Everyone I have mentioned this to (myself included) thinks its weird as hell but she legitimately doesn't want one. She really hates flashy thing/jewelry so i guess it makes sense.
If I bought her a fake, would she even be able to tell the difference?
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Not in a 1,000 years. Just never mention that it's fake.
You are plain wrong - most girls will have looked at rings and know exactly what they like and don't like, and most girls will be able to tell quite easily if the ring is fake
By the way, as a data point, all of my girlfriends don't want diamonds. They want rubies, sapphires, emeralds, you name it. Sapphires, in particular, are a popular choice because they symbolize love, truth, and fidelity. Don't ask me how I know this.
Those other minerals actually look nice because of the rich color. Diamonds are clear... looks awful.
Waste of money.
If the diamond has scratches, then it's fake. Call me a tomboy, but I really don't see the appeal of diamonds. Sure they're sparkly and tough as hell and all, but in the end it's just an overly expensive rock that screams "Rob me! rob me!"
You're joking right?
usually*
.
You are full of sh.t diamond can scratch. Google it
I replied to missmoneypenny and said "usually*".
If the diamond has scratches (inclusions) then is classified and then marginally devalued according to degree and magnitude of the inclusions, VSI,SI, or I, classifications.
Never bought my wife a ring (with or without diamond). She earns enough money that she can buy herself one if she wanted one, but she does not want one.
Yes, the money saved just wouldn't be worth the amount of nagging and shit I would get from my family, her family and friends. I enjoy my peace.
we studied this phenomenon in my consumer culture class, fascinating. De Beers did some brilliant marketing (placement in movies basically teaching men how to propose). what was my prof's conclusion.... something like 'you'll probably have to end up buying her a ring, just don't spend your life savings on it"
http://diamondsordogs.com/dogs/2012/05/the-real-history-behind-diamond-…
http://longorshortcapital.com/i-love-you-honey-and-this-time-i-mean-it…
It doesn't really matter why girls expect diamond rings, the point is most girls have come to accept them as social symbols of commitment (and they also want the joy of being able to brag to their friends and family and post it on facebook and parade around for a while). Whether or not you should bother getting married is a separate issue but if you are going to and prefer to actually have a fiance and one without lingering resentment, I don't think you have much choice unfortunately.
Exactly what I was gonna write. She can't post pictures of "I love you" or "life-long commitment" on FB
If she’s the type posting on social media for social validation it’s going to be a life filled with unnecessary expenses.
LOL @ all these finance nerds talking a big game. I know you all think you're so intellectually superior and above societal norms, but there's no fucking way a normal girl would let you get away with not getting her a diamond ring.
99.9% of every girl has been dreaming about that moment since she was 12 years old.
I got the 0.1%.
Didn't want a ring, didn't want a wedding.
My tips for happy marriage - choose a lady with low expectations and high self-discipline.
As long as we can agree that's the .1%, Congrats.
Aren't you the guy who commented recently of having an unhappy marriage lol
Shouldn't we call that "diamond in the rough" ?
This.
It's funny to hear the college sophomore who's never had a relationship longer than a few months proclaim that he will not be buying a diamond ring. Good luck buddy! Women have been dreaming of their perfect wedding dress, wedding venue, wedding ring, and hell even the wedding food ever since 4 years old when they started dressing up as a princess. I've been married for a couple years and trust me this pragmatic and efficiency over everything mindset won't fly in any worthwhile relationship.
This is very true....I would go so far as to say that girls who know people in finance make more money than people in many other careers would expect a nicer, more expensive ring...
OK. I gotta follow up as I didn't feel there were significant posts on WSO for this type of decision when i made it. I've had one freaking roller coaster of a ride for the past few months.
I bought a very expensive designer ring (Ex. Graff / De Beers / Harry Winston) and it was perfect. Then 1 months later my fiance lost it. I had it appraised for 30% above cost and had it insured so boom - got all my money back and some. Ended up realizing there is little reason for going designer when doing the second ring and decided to get a custom one made with jewish jeweler in NYC that was much higher quality (prob 25% more) for the same price due to no brand premium.
If anyone has Q's feel free to PM. I'd be happy to let you know the trade offs of each experience as well as the diamond specs I'd make sure to get. After 4 months negotiating with gemologists I've finally started to understand how the freaking market prices everything.
Best of luck to you boys. Remember - it's girl that's a much more important decision than the ring.
I cracked up at you using the "think: (DB / CS / UBS)" format for your ring designer. I was planning on calling all the sales people for your diamond company in all the east coast and west coast cities to get them to divulge your true identity. And now it's going to take me three times longer, fuck! ... and that's assuming you didn't just got to Jared.
he did say it was nyc, so your job just got a whole lot easier
Problem is that for a material number of girls, ring is a much more important decision than the boy.
Pun intended?
I'm a girl, friends with a lot of girls, etc etc. Maybe I just surround myself with decent people, but I've never heard of a girl marrying a guy, or even wanting to, for the size of the ring she was going to get. Ever. And I've heard some crazy stuff.
Of course, I've heard of very material girls (as well as boys). But I really doubt that the unveiling of their hidden intentions will be the decision on an engagement ring.
Stop being so paranoid.
What is the typical amount spent on a ring as a % of salary? Several girls have told me that their friends expect their rings to cost about 3 months salary, which I think is insane.
You can't go wrong with a Neil Lane ring fit with a cubic zirconia (I think the Bachelor did a great job of making this designer appeal to every single women). It would only be 3-5k and in 5-10 years, assuming you're not making PE shop money now, you can upgrade to a real diamond.
Expect is a dangerous word. If a girlfriend "expected" me to shell out 3 months salary she should expect to be single. Come to think of it, that's a great way to weed out the gold diggers.
I get that if your girl (or guy) just wants one, it's probably not worth fighting over it, but why not go with something like cubic zirconia or moissanite that's both more ethical and more perfect structurally and put the savings to something that will make both of you more happy?
Gotta love the butt hurt men in this thread. If you want to buy a ring, do it. My desire to buy a ring or not isn't a reflection of the quality of woman I or anyone dates.
I would buy a ruby ring. I would give $30K in cash. I'd buy a gold bar for the woman. I am simply not going to waste money on something with zero value. Frankly, any woman who couldn't think rationally about it wouldn't be someone I would want to be with. I mean what's next? You'll need a massive home because her friends have one. Or is a BMQ a sign of love now?
Guys should do whatever they want, but don't make it out to be anything other than you giving into an obvious marketing campaign or not having the sack to say no to a woman.
Also kind of funny how simple gold bands were the standard for hundreds of years, but now marriage is so badass, especially with the 50% divorce rate, that it demands a massive rock.
Side note, no one is talking about a $5K ring. I mean if I ever did get married (bad mistake #1) I would happily buy a $5K ring. I would buy a $10k ring. Because who fucking cares. But we are talking about $20-30K rings here. 2-3 carats. Sorry, but I am not wasting a 3 series worth of cash for something with zero asset value.
Solid rant brah...would love to be a fly on the wall when you explain to a girl how to think rationally and analyze asset values
Not really a rant, simply facts. No where did I ever say you should do what I do. You working for DeBeers or something?
I mean the conversation would simply be "no, I am not doing it" and then that would be that. Considering I've said that to prior girlfriends it manages to work out just fine.
But cool dude. Keep getting angry when someone chooses to not do what you think is a rule when in fact it is simply DeBeers selling people bullshit for 80 years.
But do you really strive to marry (if you're into that) an average girl? Are we not the high financier types with great prospects, wit, and offensively good looks? We shouldn't have to settle for a girl who can't conform to our worldviews.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/29/opinion/29wolfers.html?_r=0
due diligence - 50% divorce rate is just bad statistics and not reality. There is a study done by a Harvard Economist worth reading on the topic, but I forgot her name.
I'm pretty sure autos are the absolute worse "asset class" to own and depreciate at a rate far, far higher than diamonds.
Actually not, vintage cars are among the most lucrative investments, around 400% over a 10 year period, not bad at all.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/classic-cars-on-a-road-to-400-returns…
Hopefully the quality of your women is better than the quality of your grammar.
The divorce rate for two college educated partners who wait until after college to marry is only 20%, and declining:
http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-myth-of-the-high-rate-of-divorce/000114…
the worst is when they want diamonds for other occasions... i didn't mind getting the engagement ring, but now it looks like i'll be stuck wasting more money on jewelry... such a waste.
However it started, and no matter how shitty the diamond market is, some things just have to be done. Maybe you'll find the 1/1,000,000 girl that doesn't want or care about a diamond ring. Wonderful. That's not normal and is quite unlikely. Just about every one of you will end up buying one.
Edit
I don't remember really giving any advice. I simply stated what I was going to do. Everyone is different and should operate accordingly. I'll say this. If you have a girl that demands a certain type ring you better be prepared for someone who is going to demand a car, house, vacation, etc.
In b4 this turns into a discussion on the merits of marriage. #WSO
You buy branded sh.t don't you? And pay more for it, even if it was made by a 5 year old Chinese kid got 2 cents. Suck it up, and buy a diamond. They are beautiful stones - all that shit about it being not rare etc.. Is just shit excuses. The supply is extremely well controlled, and a flood of diamond is not about to go all over the market and make that stone worthless for the next 100 years. The Grand pa of a persian friend of mine shoved a bunch of diamonds up his ass when he got out of the country. It helped him carry a bit of his money with him. It's great for laundering or carrying money in case of war.
So diamonds not rare? Who cares, supply are controlled and will be for a very long time.
Were as for your fiancee. Don't be a cheap fuck. Buy her a diamond, she is already putting up with you, be nice.
Seconding this and would like to add that, although raw diamonds are not rare, well cut investment grade GIA certified diamonds generally increase in value over time with inflation, or much more for very rare diamonds(e.g. colored or very large). If you buy from a family dealer or wholesaler you won't pay much of a mark-up and could sell it for a profit in 5-10 years if you had to.
To claim a diamond has zero value because it is propped up by De Beers supply restrictions and marketing is like saying equities have zero value because they are propped up by the Fed or that the USD has zero value because the government is broke.
Give your fiance some acid then send her to a mine where diamonds are made. After 7 or so hours, said individual would want nothing to do with those things. If the option is not feasible .... mining videos should do the trick. I'm sure You Tube got some documentaries.
Can't believe nobody here knows what the fuck lab diamonds are...
FAR more pure, ethical, and inexpensive than natural diamonds, and 100% real. If you buy a natural or Cube Z, you're an idiot.
$60k natural ring = $2k lab ring (caveat: this only works when you're already rolling dough and don't want to blow your bonus on a rock)
If you don't you're asking for a divorce
I'm not opposed to a cheapo rock ($1-5k), but the future wifie and I will be getting plain, platinum bands. Engagement ring cash is going into a travel fund and an education fund for the kids.
It's going to cost at least $250k in today's dollars to raise a single kid. Tack on prep school, sports, summer camps, and vacations, and you're running $500k+.
If she doesn't like it... tough luck. Self-selection is a powerful way to prevent yourself from making the worst financial decision of your life.
Tiffany is deffo an elite boutique
Sweatshop hours for their (overseas) employees ... soooooo Lazardish
yep, but im sure not gonna let her carry it around all the time people get murdered for big-sized rocks
Ask Patrick. :) @WallStreetOasis.com
You pretty much have to these days
//www.youtube.com/embed/N5kWu1ifBGU
EDIT
I paid for the brand name. There are some things that you "get what you pay for" and after shopping around at some cheaper places, Tiffany's was just all around better. I paid more, but the service before after and during purchase was a million times better than any place I went to.
If the level of service is truly that important to you, I can't argue, but you probably paid 30-50% markup for the Tiffany's service. I spent time looking at Tiffany's, Diamonds Direct (non-name brand diamond supplier), and online over the last few months, and eventually chose to purchase my diamond online for $11,500. A diamond of approximately the same size, clarity, cut, color, and grading agency was offered to me at a final price of $14,900 at Diamonds Direct, the non-name brand retailer. Without a doubt, additional markup would have been incurred on the setting at either retailer.
To say "get what you pay for" is just wrong. You paid 30% markup for somebody to teach you what she wants and then sell it to you at a price they deem is fair. I ended up with the same result, as certified by GIA, whether I went to a retailer or online, but I estimate that I was able to save ~$4,000. The process required planning ahead, an extra Saturday afternoon at the jewelry store getting learned up, and few extra hours on blogs reading about reputable online sources, but it was absolutely worth it to me.
Also, I really hope Tiffany's helped you find away around retail sales tax and that you throw away an additional 6-8% on top of the example retail price above.
I know I paid a big mark up and I'm fine with that. I paid that mark up so I didn't have to worry about going through and doing all the research on my own. I knew I was getting a good quality product.
Also, this may not seem like much, but being able to just walk in any day of the week and get your ring cleaned for free is nice when your wife/fiance wants to keep her stone shiny.
They also warranty their rings so if a prong breaks off or anything like that, they'll replace it for free.
Being nervous when buying an engagement ring because it's a big life move, not being pressured into buying a ring and actually helped in a calm manner instead of "what'll it take for you to buy this ring today?" helps a lot too.
EDIT
Why would I sell 50% preferred equity in myself for free much less buy a pebble?
Sir TradesAlot with the most adult response of all of us.
I won't insert myself into this debate about whether diamonds are "worth the money spent" - it's simply a judgment of value.
That said, what I find most interesting about this thread is the illusory distinction between diamonds, whose demand is, putatively, "artificial", and other non-essential goods/services, whose demand is "justified". I hate to be the one to break it to you, but every dollar you spend beyond that which satisfies your primal needs is directed by the "artificiality" of marketing. There is no sense in which you "need" a Mercedes vs. a Ford, a penthouse vs. a pre-war studio, a Rolex vs. a Fossil, a dinner at Per Se vs. a dinner at McDonald's. You are persuaded by the appeal of product placement to your peculiar sensibilities.
The idea that there is some "rational" set of values as distinct from "irrational" alternatives is an exercise in both pure vanity and blissful ignorance. So quick to identify the marketing at play with respect to diamonds, yet so blind to the marketing at play with respect to your Bosch appliances, $10 sandwich, $50k car, view of the city/ocean, leathery-ness of your shoes, bespoke fit of your suit and win:loss ratio of your chosen sports franchise.
Agree completely @Northsider... SB'd
THIS.
also, this thread is a great display of how many insecure guys work in banking (she wants a diamond=she wants me for my money=my NAV is 0).
I went through this a couple of years ago. I always thought no way I am going to waste money on a material item that provides no use in daily life a gum ball machine pops out rings for $0.25.
Well of course I bought a diamond. However, there are two ways to get maximum value for your dollar.
Obtain a diamond dealers license and buy directly on the market. It will save you 50-80%, which is thousands. It doesn't take much research and a license is pretty easy to acquire. If you are in NYC someone may just have a family member or friend in the business.
Buy online and then have the stone set in a ring later. You will save 30-40%. I did this an was able to buy a stone that was much nicer than I ever would have bought through a traditional retailer. It worked out great since her grandmothers ring had a CZ in it because she gave the diamond away already.
Best of luck to those "never going to fall prey".
All jokes aside. How much coin should an engagement ring set you back? Varying folks say saying things
I was waiting for NorthSider to get into the fray.
I don't even think Jamie Dimon would purchase a $50K diamond. Walk into a Tiffany's and ask to see a 3kt-4kt diamond. Those things are a monstrosity and probably reserved for plus size women.
Blame Beyonce
"Yeahhh man, women are sooooo irrational, I don't get it!!!" As he kicks back in his $800 Aeron; sporting a $200 Hermes tie, $700 horsebit Ferragamos, a $1,500 Burberry suit and a $10,000 Rolex; looking out from his 40th floor, $250/sq. ft. office space at 9 West; splitting up his $25,000/month Hamptons rental to compliment his $4,500/month 2br/flex-3 in Stuy Town; dreaming about his future $100,000 sports car; and buying his $2,000 Super Bowl tickets.
Classic WSO.
That Aeron is worth it's weight in diamonds! Anyway my husband gave me a rosary when we got engaged. I may buy a stone less band but ONLY because people always think I'm a unwed mother. But I don't really care I don't own any jewelry
No one pays $700 for normal horsesbit loafers, let's be rational here.
Had my wife's ring custom-made in Asia. Real white gold, cube z, less than $1K. Three years later it's still doin it's job. Wouldn't have done it any other way.
Cubic zirconia, in my opinion, sounds cooler
If she cares that much about something as petty and materialistic as a ring, she's probably the wrong girl for me
I want a girl who loves me for me, not for the $$$ I'm willing to spend on her
Who the fuck lives in Stuy Town if you had a spot in the Hamptons? Are you new to NYC and living there or some shit that you think Stuy town is a balling place ? Do you buy bottles at joshua tree and mercury too?
Lol @ the "oh enjoy being single" holier than thou commentary from the married guys who are prideful about their ring purchasing ability . do whatever you want , nothing wrong with slaying 20s when you're in your 40s. Better than getting half your rev jacked for alimony after your wife divorces you for working 90 hour workweeks and she begins screwing abercrombie retail guys she finds after shopping for your kids clothes and or on cougarmeet.com
Oh yes, and I also think a 2br/flex-3 is the epitome of "classy". The number of Stuy Town flex-bedroom junior bankers with Hamptons rentals split 47 ways is truly innumerable.
if buying a rock makes your woman happy, I say do it.
happy wife, happy life!
And whatever the fuck a normal girl is -- I know more than a couple girls who were fine without a rock when they got engaged .
Don't bash someone else's decision because your wife made you play the game
Edit
How are you planning on financing the diamond ring? My recommendation would be to back it with as much leverage as possible- make use of that tax shield! Also, check out some of the market comps. Relevant ratios to use include but aren't limited to (ring price/wife's hotness), (ring price/wife's cup size), (ring price/how much she puts out).
While we're on the subject of marriage, make sure you regress your potential mate's income potential with hotness. These assets tend to depreciate extremely fast once they reach ~ 25 years so make sure you are accounting for that. Let me know if I can assist you further. Cheers!
I'm not planning on getting married anytime soon, but I would bet a lot of money that I will be buying a diamond ring. If the girl doesn't want one, fine with me, but I doubt that will be the case. Now since she will likely want one, she will probably like a very nice one, (just like I will like a nice car and home), so I'll get her that.
I like how this thread transitioned from buying a diamond ring to buying a 50k diamond ring, lol. A decent looking reasonably priced diamond ring is standard fare for the whole marriage proposal thing, but if she's expecting something that costs more than a 5-series BMW she's a gold-digger. Getting a diamond ring doesn't equate to just buying anything.
This makes no sense. You cant understand why people pay for diamonds but you can understand why for art??? Art has no value whatsoever and you can easily get a replica that captures the piece EXACTLY.
Or you can buy an "original" piece, that is also a fake.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/art-forger-wolfgang-beltracchis-multimillio…
The art world is completely ridiculous. I worked at an art institute and it just boggles my mind.
As much as really expensive art or wine is also ridiculous, the rarity and uniqueness certainly plays a factor. Art/wine appreciates gradually over time too because of that unlike diamonds. When you buy a bottle of vintage wine you know it might be the last bottle of its type in the world.
does anyone else find MissMoneyPenny to be incredibly annoying? or is it just me
What about buying her a $3k ring and donating $30k to charity, in her name? How do you think she would react?
This is a great idea actually. 30k can feed alot of starving kids. But its kind of a cheap shot.
Has little to do with tossing away $5K-$10k, has everything to do with finding a woman who doesn't need to constantly keep up with the Jones'. That's the real diamond.
I couldn't read through this entire thread. Some of the nonsense in it is crazy. I just proposed to my high school sweetheart. She has put up with my shit for over a decade now. I even convinced her that I wasn't going to be able to swing an engagement ring and since she is awesome and totally worth it she was fine with it. After months of shopping/researching I got a fantastic deal on an flawlessly cut round diamond that is breath taking. I then had it set in a unique trench setting for snag free wear since she is an RN. She was absolutely floored when I sprung it on her and it feels fantastic when I catch her looking at it and smiling. Such a simple thing to make the one you are supposed to love for the rest of your life happy. And I spent no where near $10k+.
EDIT
If she buy me a Lambo, I'll buy her a ring. Else, she can go be a parasite on someone else's d*ck.
If the prenup says that I will get it back
now there's a foundation to rest your marriage on
aaaaaaaaaaand we found the one who takes this a bit too serious.
amount spent on ring = amount she funds into my brokerage account.
I won't. We already arranged that we'll take all the money that we would spend in a fancy Wedding party and expensive jewelry and we'll travel together as Honeymoon :)
One really expensive diamond ring can pay for one-month at the best romantic Resorts in the Caribbean.
You buy the ring for the experience of seeing the excitement on her face as you ask and when she stares at it with a smile on. Your girl may not want one, but I'm damn sure she will be thrilled to have it after her closest friends or a stranger compliments her on how lucky she is.
Pretty expensive smile, that is.
So she's not smiling because you've proposed marriage, but because she can run a calculus of the $ value of your commitment?
I'm sure you mean calculation. If she was running a calculus she would be measuring the rate of change of your commitment, which for a single non-variable integer is zero.
This thread is adorable. Do what you wanna do, but don't act like you have some higher level of existence by "not giving in to the system." I'm not here to argue that, I'm just here to defend the good name of diamonds as an investment class. So, for the record:
1) Diamonds have been and are likely to continue to be a pretty good investment
2) Diamonds are, in fact, limited in supply and OP doesn't characterize them accurately (they're no different than art or fine wine, and are actually better than both of those things because of their liquidity and categorization)
3) Not that it's relevant to anything, but diamond isn't without value outside of jewelry - it has plenty of commercial uses, not entirely useless like a painting
4) De Beers doesn't really control supply like that, they get way too much credit from the media
NERD ALERT
I feel sorry for those who have to buy a ring in order to marry their shallow minded wife.
All I can say is that if I every get married, she's the one that will be proposing. Women have more to gain from marriage anyway.
Traditionally an engagement ring was to signify that a women was "taken"; think wedding ring light. Now it is used to display conspicuous consumption.
If I was to go through with such a process, I mind as well use a wedding ring because the engagement would only last about a week before the event and because we would know each other more intimately than most married couples.
think i'll offer my girl her student loans paid off or a ring of equal value
The problem is then it changes the relationship to one about money.
It's always been about money dude. Hence why we are having this whole conversation.
If a survey was taken for average age in this thread it would not be over 25 given some of the comments and likely the current relationship status would be single with lots of lotion...
Diamonds and gems are desirable because they are deemed to be prestigious. Fortunately this is changing. Those on the bleeding edge of elitism in certain areas are starting to eschew diamonds due to their association with conflicts, child exploitation, slave labor, etc. I could see a scenario not too far down the road where diamonds go the way of the fur coat -- once a coveted luxury item, but now unconscionable to actually purchase and wear.
Sure there's a movement against fur. But the wealthy still own them and I think what's really died is just the plebeian lust for them, not the ownership by the people who can actually afford a $100,000 coat.
Surprised the 3 month salary rule wasnt brought up more. Assuming ring is 3 months salary and you have 10% savings rate of which is all dedicated to the ring fund. It would take 2.5 years to save up enough. That is just insanity.
Nvm
http://www.businessinsider.com/finance-guys-on-diamond-rings-2014-4
Congrats. You guys just made headlines in Business Insider.
God, BI is a joke.
At least WSO is creating user content.. im surprised the article isn't titled "the top 7 reasons 23 year old investment bankers don't want to buy diamond rings"
the top 7 EPIC and INSANE reasons 23 year old investment bankers don't want to buy diamond rings
Kind of regret not saying something more clever and getting quoted by that dumb bitch.
Another valuable lesson on anonymity
The question of buying a diamond ring is parallel to the question of why even get married? Marriage for those who have wealth is a merger of assets legally that is based on the premise that you want to remain "merged" for the rest of your existance. At one point it was taboo to have relations until married, then it was only taboo to live together w/o marriage, then only if you had a child w/o marriage. I still beleive it is taboo to have children w/o getting married, but it no longer carries the social stigma it once did. So the decision to get married is either a financial/legal one the merger concept, a religious one (I'll leave that alone) or a pretense to having children, but is no longer in anyway needed or required. So why? TRADITION! (or really cultural expectations). So if you are going to engage in what is a cultural expectation well then do it right and buy the lady a diamond engagement ring. If you don't plan to have a traditional wedding (and gentlemen if you don't know about these things and you have been together long enough to be expected at family functions it is time to discuss) then the engagement ring is probably not as important. But if you are in love with a women who has dreamed of her wedding since she was 10 years old, well good luck trying to forego the expectation. Personally my wife is a very humble and practical woman and would have been happy with whatever I got her. But I choose to get her a moderately expensive engagement ring (about 1 month's gross salary at the time) not because she needed to know I love her but infact just like the ad says to let everyone else know. After almost 7 years (and 5 years of marriage w/ 2 kids) I know I made the right choice, because while diamonds are probably overpriced, her ring is still as beautiful the day I purchased it and she still receives compliments today. For anyone considering a ring I will advise it is easy to get caught up on size, my advice is decide on a budget and find a nice size stone that is of a high (not best) grade in color (F or G), clarity (VVS) and especially cut (ideal, signature or excellent). You dont need internally flawless or perfectly colorless, but it worth getting an ideal cut. A hunking rock that doesn't sparkle will feel cheap and a stone too big will look cartoonish on a small hand. Finally make sure the setting is something she will love as this is literally meant to last a life time.
As a former hedge fund trader, ibank institutional trader, and now reformed startup entrepreneur and founder of Enchanted Diamonds, I can give you my insider perspective.
Everyone on this thread is right. For better or worse diamond engagement rings are a tradition that's not going to stop any time soon.
However, diamonds are NOT an investment. While they can hold some value, investment grade diamonds are rare and are usually only found at Sotheby and Christie's auctions. Diamonds in jewelry? Think of it more like a car. As soon as you take it off the lot it just lost ~30-40% of it's value.
That's the reality. Buying brand names is stupid and a waste of money. No one can recognize a label on a ring nor does that label make it any more valuable upon potential resale. Not trying to make this an endorsement for my company, but I recommend all of you find a budget that you are comfortable with, no matter what you do, it's going to be a hit (top 3 purchase in 99% of buyers lives).
Find a jeweler you can trust, online is better as diamonds ARE a commodity, and a cert is a cert is a cert, as long as it's GIA and not that EGL or IGI for-profit grading nonsense. Find exactly what you want, choose eye clean diamonds over flawless (I don't know anyone who has more than 1X magnification on there eyes), and get a custom ring made specifically for your selected diamond and her finger size.
If you work with the right jeweler, like us at Enchanted Diamonds, your appraisal value can be anywhere from 20-50% more than your purchase price. And, if you ever want to upgrade, we make that process much easier. Sorry for the rant. Happy to answer any and all questions or give advice to anyone who is looking.
Best of luck to all!
Monkeys we famous now.
Yep - quoted in BI. Life is complete. Considering retiring now. Just kidding.
Honestly, I think her write up was fair. The comments are redic, but she did a good job with it. For the life of me I don't know why our discussions are article worthy, but hey, more power to them haha.
She didn't do much more than ctrl+c / ctrl + v.
Lol BI has some weird obsession with anyone in finance. She almost takes a condescending, yet understanding tone towards us as she gives advice. Happy to help BI with their click bait.
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