Moving from US to Europe (AM research)
Considering pros and cons of moving from the US to Europe (possibly UK/NL/Germany but open location-wise) as a fixed income research analyst.
Any thoughts on the following (or beyond) appreciated:
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Which cities would be the best to look at for job opportunities in AM (London yes, but what else)?
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Salary/Cost of living - Is London/Frankfurt at par with the US (think NYC/Chicago salary) in terms of base and variable pay? Guessing other major cities (for instance Amsterdam/Paris/Madrid) aren’t but is the COL low enough as compared to higher-paying cities to comp for the low pay?
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Exposure/quality of work - Does exposure to quality work vary a lot between US/UK/other European public markets on the research side?
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Culture - 100% believe Europe > US here overall, work culture and otherwise. How easy/difficult is it for someone to integrate knowing only English? Thoughts on major cities with finance job opportunities?
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Pros I’m considering at this point: lower cost of living with better standard of living, travel, better culture, better work-life balance, healthcare
Cons: salary - pay cut from US salary level, possibly high cost of living and taxes
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TLDR: Considering a move from US to Europe (London/Frankfurt/Amsterdam and open to other locations), weighing pros and cons and looking for thoughts on the same - salary, COL, cities to consider.
You're not going to be able to have a substantial increase in lifestyle unless you're willing to take a severe net pay cut.
Basically: bulk of AM jobs are in London/Zurich, both of which are very HCOL and have similar pay (maybe a slight discount) but also similar working culture to the US. Maybe Zurich is a bit better in terms of work life balance but you'd probably struggle to justify visa sponsorship unless you speak German and bring something unique to the table.
Frankfurt has some AM but is a pretty boring city. Germany work/life/balance is probably pretty good though I suspect you'd take a much steeper pay cut than London/Zurich. Again, visa sponsorship issues. I'm guessing here, it's kinda like a middle ground between the Anglo/US system and the pure EU work culture.
France/Benelux: complete other end of the scale. Up to 60% cut from US total comp, plus very very high taxes. Great work life balance and you can probably get away with cruising somewhat, but if you want to actually learn and add value you still need to put in the hours.
Honestly if you're already in AM and living in the US why would you leave? Plenty of Europeans I talk to (the ones who don't think the US is a barbaric shithole because it doesn't have free healthcare) all dream of working there. Your salaries are amongst the highest in the world, taxes are OK by rich world standards, and the industry is decentralised away from the HCOL cities so you can still afford a decent lifestyle. Plus it's AM; you're surely not working crazy hours.
Thank you, appreciate the insight.
Regarding your last point about the ‘why’.
I love the work and culture at my current firm. PTO is a joke but that’s the standard, so can’t blame them for being at ‘industry standard’. Agree with all your other points about decent hours, good comp, good lifestyle. I’m not American (and not European) and having lived in a few different places in the US over almost 5 years, I don’t think this is the place for me longer term for various reasons which I’d rather not get into. Add to it the never-ending visa application/renewal cycle and it gives me all the more reason to start looking at options. The only thing that’s truly keeping me here is the quality of work, I really like the work that I do and the learning experience that comes with it. I’m open to taking a pay cut to move to a place I’d actually like living in, but going by your response, anything outside of London, Zurich and maybe Frankfurt will come with a very steep cut and I’m not sure that’s something I’m willing to do at this point in my career. I wish the AM world had taken to the idea of 100% remote work, might have made things easier but until then, I’ll keep weighing my options :)
Thanks again!
Would consider London and Amsterdam (probably slightly biased). If you're a bit older maybe you can find something that you'd like. Zurich is absolutely wonderful and Geneva is ok. If you find a good opportunity in one of these cities, you should definitely consider it. Otherwise the US might be better IMO.
Perhaps I would suggest applying for jobs / opportunities and then make some kind of mathematical model with some form of sensitivity analysis (could run a quick monte carlo) to see whether or not you are better off. Worse comes to worse you give it a go - regardless you should have some fun discovering the city and you can discover what Europe has to offer (A LOT ahahah). Good luck!!
If you don’t mind me asking, is there anything specific that makes you lean more towards London and Amsterdam? And about someone a bit older being able to find something they’d like, work wise or culture wise?
And you're right, US is for money, Europe is for well-being. Additionally, if you want WLB, Europe may be a more viable options because employment law is more serious compared to the States. The contracts tend to be longer due to more protective clauses to employees (your days-off are respected without the need to cancel events to attend some bullshit request).
London and Amsterdam - any thoughts on if employers are generally willing to considering someone even if it means they’ll have to sponsor an employment visa?
Interesting point about Paris, Madrid, Milan. Up until now, I was thinking about it only from a compensation and language barrier standpoint. Does the same apply to experienced hires too?
100% with you on the well-being aspect, physical as well as mental!
For Spain, Italy and France it applies to the top companies as people who manage the company come from elite schools so they will relate more to applications who also share their same school. For mid-size firms they may be more open to people who can raise revenue instead of where you went to school.
For Amsterdam and London I do not have some empirical evidence to support this, but they are highly multicultural and for example in NL people from universities around NL have a shot at top companies. Same for London, students outside Oxbridge, LSE or LSB MBA also have greater chances to get a shot into companies. So the situation of how locals are treated may also reflect that they are more concerned about what you can bring into the company instead of where you went.
Although, the surest way to get a chance in Europe is to search for positions which explicitly are interested in people with studies in US or people with experience there because this implies that they may be opened to sponsor a visa if you really impress them.
I have been looking to move to Zurich for many of the same reasons.
I am a swiss citizen, but only lived there for a few years when I was in high school. So despite there not being any legal barriers, getting any traction has been tough.
First off, despite all the job postings being in English, it seems like speaking fluent German/French is a must to work anywhere in Switzerland. They also aren't interested in flying out some college student to interview for an entry-level role, but maybe post-COVID that aspect has been resolved. In addition, the job search culture in Switzerland is the polar opposite to the US--very in-depth application materials and no networking. To be honest with you, I haven't even gotten a single first round interview. On the bright side, all of my applications received a personal response from HR, so at least you aren't just sending things into the void.
At this point, I'm fairly convinced my only options are getting a master's degree in Europe, or some kind of internal transfer.
That’s rough! I’d think it wouldn’t be as difficult as it is getting for you to at least get an interview given your citizenship status. Is the major constraint here the language or where you’re located currently - they prefer hiring someone already based in Switzerland maybe? As an international applicant with countless ‘We regret to inform you…’ messages from a computer program, it’s good to know about applications going through human screening at least. Are you targeting only Zurich specifically?
Wonder if the job market is any different for experienced hires than for recent graduates.
I hope something clicks for you soon instead of having to go the education route, unless that’s what you really want to do irrespective of employment prospects. Good luck!
I didn't think it would be so difficult either! I actually speak the language near fluently and have it on my resume, so probably the main issue is that they don't want to fly me out for interviews. My guess is that once you are more experienced, the cost is tiny compared to your value and they would be much more willing.
I suppose I could always put a swiss address on my resume and fly out on my own dime, but I'm not desperate enough to take 2 days off work and spend 800 bucks.
Im not targeting any city in particular. All of them have 10x the quality of life of any US finance city.
Best of luck to you too!
Lived in continental euro countries previously and know lots of peeps still stuck there, I would strongly recommend against the move. IMO this should be considered as a last resort solution. Can elaborate if needed.
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