Should I Re-Recruit?

Unique situation here. Got into a deferred admissions program for law school and know that's what I want to do, but the deal is that I have to take two gap years after undergrad. Basically I will join the law class of 2027 guaranteed, and have two years to do whatever I want.

Obviously this changes my priorities compared to most early career consultants because I'm less early career focused and more comp focused, basically just trying to make money to pay down law school loans early. In hindsight I probably (definitely) should have recruited for IB or something more intensive for that purpose but it is what it is ig.

I got my return today and the first year total comp would be 121 or 131 (based on which location I'd choose) plus a 15 signing. I've applied to a few places to re-recruit for FT, namely A&M CRG, but my current offers seems really good to me. The place (c1) has a great WLB, never more than 40hrs this summer. But I don't have a good sense for how this comp would compare to others. Is it still worth continuing with the FT recruiting other places if I'm only trying to max comp with other FT offers on a two year horizon?

9 Comments
 

Its really funny youre this worried about compensation, yet willing to take on 3 years of opportunity cost of foregone 600K+ salary plus 200K+ of tuition and other school-related expenses. 130K at 22 years old isnt IB money, but it’s certainly setting you up to make BigLaw money with 5-6 YOE. Of course, money may not be your main goal, it may be to go through a rigorous academic program like law school, and then become a kick ass attorney. I dont have enough context here to discourage you from going to Lawschool, but I would encourage you to re-evaluate if that path is even worth it in your current position. From a purely monetary perspective, it likely isnt. With that kind of comp at 22 years old, I would assume that youll be making atleast 250K+ by the time youre 27 (the same youd be making first year out of law school). BigLaw pays phenomenal in comparison to the average white collar job, but certainly isn&t IB money and really just matches up with the higher ranking consulting positions. Also, it is absolutely worth it to silently recruit if you have nothing better to be doing with your time, which I couldnt imagine you do since you already have every other route of post grad squared away.

 
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So this is a completely tangential point to my main post I think you're just... wrong about Biglaw compensation. Before I start I'll say that for what it's worth I want to be a lawyer, and the compensation is secondary. But I see this misconception all over WSO so this is a good excuse to type it out and I hope this is useful to someone and prompts some good discussion.

I will graduate at 26 and in Biglaw and my base compensation will be 250k, like you said. This is the floor, but it is also important to stress here that not everyone takes two years. So an unqualified statement like Biglaw "really just matches up with the higher ranking consulting positions" when you can be making 275k guaranteed at 24 doesn't make much sense. Last I checked it takes ~3 years to become an Associate at Mckinsey and that was paying a TC of like 225. Another ~6-8 to become an Associate Partner and you're at 460k, where Biglaw will put you at 575k. Keep in mind I'm comparing McKinsey, The Most Known and Prestigious Consulting Firm, to the median outcome of a T14 law grad. I would seriously encourage you to mentally compare biglaw numbers to the median outcome for MBA grad, or a non-MBB firm, or doing internal Corp Dev work, and see how they stack up. To roughly eyeball this: The median NYU MBA (including those who go to PE, IB, etc) year one total comp is $199k. The 25th percentile of year one base salaries for NYU law grads who work in Biglaw is $215k. Biglaw base alone beats business/dev ops/consulting TC medians right out of the gate, lol.

If you want to compare apples to apples more closely, we can compare MBB to boutique and above-market firms. Susman Godfrey paid first year associates ~330k last year, paid 500k to third year associates, and has been paying above market bonus for a decade. Wachtell flatly doubles the base as bonus for ~$450k first year and 1mil after six, double that of an Associate Partner at McKinsey (assuming you can even make AP in the same timeframe). Kellogg consistently beats market by multiples and paid their oldest associate class a bonus of 450k a couple years ago, on top of the 400k base. There are litigation firms like Dovel that have profit sharing incentives that can lead to similarly high numbers (Dovel once paid a 700k!! bonus to associates, somehow). More and more boutiques are paying above market - just a few months ago I checked ATL and saw a firm I had never heard of raising their 1st year base to 300k and the 5th year base to 450k with a guaranteed partner track (1-2mil) of five years.

If Cravath Scale biglaw vs Consulting is a question, Boutique vs Consulting, it would seem to me, is a no brainer for compensation. You might say that my chances are lower with a boutique than MBB, and that might be true from square zero, but I've already been admitted into a law school with these outcomes. So I'm not sure why I would reassess that, and this is doubly true for someone who doesn't take a two year gap. And again, even without boutiques, a "regular" biglaw firm is MBB competitive, if not a bit better. Boutique firms pretty handily beat any consulting firms and the most sought after MBB exits.

Then we have to talk about partnership. It would seem likely to me that someone who is willing to grind it out at McKinsey for partner would be willing to do the same in a top biglaw firm. So let's compare those numbers. Consultancy is a very easy path to max out at 1-1.5 million a year, even at McKinsey partner level, and there isn't a standard path to make anything beyond that from what I understand, barring you become a truly exceptional rainmaker. 

But the profit per equity partner at a biglaw firm like Kirkland, which has 600 equity partners, is 9 million dollars. There are easily 30+ firms with an average Profit per Equity Partner in excess of 4 million, to say nothing of the amount with 2 million+. I have not heard of any meaningful number of consultants hitting these figures without entrepreneurship or an exceedingly rare competitive finance exit like a top HF or MFPE. 

Even banking, probably, loses here at the partner level. Last I checked there were something like ~600 MDs at Goldman averaging 1.5-2 mil a year. The top ~30 Biglaw firms that are comparable to Goldman in selectiveness, like the boutiques above but even lesser known southern biglaw firms like King and Spalding, have probably 300 partners on average in each and are on average doubling that. Talking to my friends in finance they seriously have no idea that there are thousands of lawyers making multiples of their MDs who came up through a generous partner track an IB intern could only dream of. These are also medians, not rainmakers. Boutiques are even more insane, since the partner track is close to guaranteed... Quinn or Susman are certainly paying out 7mil+ to equity partners; not too long ago one Susman partner became a federal judge and had to disclose his previous year's compensation of 16 million, which was standardized across their entire executive committee. When you think about it this is actually not at all surprising given the limited partner structure of law firms compared to the shareholder-value expectations of a BB. Public banks, to remain competitive in public markers, are incentivized to pay you as little as they can get away with. Biglaw partners are only accountable to themselves.

So yeah, at every level, a biglaw career beats consulting, even against MBB and a fast promotion timeline, if you're willing to see it all the way through and push through with the same grit you'd probably need at McKinsey. This is before we even talk about risk... biglaw is way less likely to get laid off of have delayed promotional timelines in downturns. 

The only time Wachtell ever paid less than 100% bonus was in 2009.

 

Starting off I agree with you that long-term Big Law partnership leads to better pay than MBB partnership. If someone wants to make 5M+, Big Law is more likely to get them there.
That said, I think you’re missing a lot of details and have some stuff wrong.

Before responding directly, I want to highlight that on average MBB has better WLB than Big Law, though both are bad. A more apt comparison for Big Law WLB is PE/IB.

Responding to P1:
On pay, the first issue is your progression levels are off. McKinsey promotes to EM after 3 years out of undergrad (post-undergrad hires “skip associate level”). This is the normal track; outliers can make EM in 2 years and AP in 4. So the comp that should be compared to Big Law is 300k–350k, since that is when a post-undergrad hire should have graduated.

Second, you’re comparing two very different schooling systems. NYU Stern is not M7, while NYU Law is top 6. M7 schools are closer to T14 in law, and M7 programs are much larger than each T14. On top of that, most top undergrad business schools do not feed into MBAs.

Looking at apples-to-apples comp, I think the comparison you used is flawed. McKinsey has ~500 post-undergrad hires, while Susman Godfrey hires 30. And pre-partner, comp differences are not that extreme/favor mck since lack of law school/opportunity cost.

McK               Susman Godfrey
BA: 140           Law School
BA2: 150          Law School
SBA: 200          Law School
EM1: 300          330
EM2: 325          400 (assumed)
AP1: 450          500
AP2: 500          600
Partner: 800+    
 

I won’t go deep into partner vs. partner except for two points:

  1. Most senior McKinsey partners are closer to 3M, while Big Law still pays more at that level.
  2. Making partner in Big Law is just as hard as making partner at McKinsey. Friends of mine at top firms generally know they won’t make partner.

If you look at high-end exits, McKinsey actually comes out ahead. Big Law’s top earners are its partners. McKinsey’s top earners are alumni who become Fortune 500 execs, founders, or investors. Those paths clear Big Law. For example, I’m leaving for PE, and first-year comp is 350–400k (and this would be while my equivalent peers would be in law school).  

But this is a small fraction of McKinsey—maybe 2–3%. In Big Law, I think a larger share of people who stay on actually make it to partnership. So long term, the odds of hitting very high comp are better in Big Law.

 

also to answer the question above. If your certain your going to law school, MBB/other firms doesn't matter, you will make fat stacks later, go and have fun with amazing WLB. (echoing the comment below) 
Will also add the McLean office is much more fun, since all more young people at c1 are there

 

A few nitpicks here:

  • Susman hiring much less than a place like McKinsey is expected, just because of the scale of operation and a much smaller applicant pool. But again, worth noting the existence of many other firms (that might not match Susman exactly, admittedly) but especially for partnership comp are multiples ahead of business outcomes.
  • I used NYU as an example but the pattern is everywhere, even a school like Harvard. The 25th percentile of Harvard Law grads have a base of 225k (TC 245k), the median TC at Harvard Business School is roughly 205k. Wharton MBA's own website lists "Legal & Professional Services" as the highest annual salary for graduates, almost certainly for the 2+2 candidates who end up choosing Biglaw (https://statistics.mbacareers.wharton.upenn.edu/full-time/industry-choi…). I would be genuinely surprised if there was a single law school in the T14 where business school grads made higher medians than law school grads. If you take issue with this comparison in general because of larger average class sizes, I would argue that this is exactly what you would expect given the sizes of each field. There are only 1.3 million lawyers in the USA compared to over 30 million working in "Management, business, and financial operations" according to the BLS. Again, imperfect comparison here, but the class size difference still seems reasonable enough to be comparable to me.
  • I'm a little confused on your offer - are you saying you got a 350-400k starting exit within essentially two years of working at McKinsey? I did specifically exclude exits like PE and HF, but most McKinsey alum are not getting these, I'd imagine, and definitely not from Analyst?

Overall, I didn't realize that going straight through at McK allows you to skip associate level, which yeah, definitely brings McKinsey (almost) in line with boutiques and definitely an edge over typical Biglaw. But if McKinsey is already a super uncommon track, this is even rarer, and I'd refer back to my first point on that one looking at medians - Not everyone can work at McKinsey or Susman, and I think Biglaw certainly beats MBA graduates/consulting outside of that range as a whole.

 

Do not rerecruit. I signed for MBB full-time this week and the offer is roughly 135-140k tc. If you're only going to be in the workforce for two years just stay at a place with good pay, great wlb, enjoy life, then you can enter grind mode in law school and afterwords. Exit ops are meaningless to you. I don't know about CRG, but A&M typically works with distressed clients (although that's changing), so you might be working until midnight reguarly, or at least that's what I hear from friends/coffee chats at other RX-focused firms (Alix/FTI/boutique).

As someone who interned a 8/9-5/6, life was so blissful. Got to hang out with friends, explore the city, do new things, try new foods, just generally had a lot of time to be happy. My friends at MBB/T2 and IB I saw on weekends, but weekdays were all work.

There is more to life than money maxxing, especially when future earnings are significantly higher than what you're making right now. Assuming you're in northern virginia if you're C1, DC is a great city to be in. Get drinks with friends before sunset, join a kickball league, and get a bf/gf. Plus deffered admission gives you aura since everyone there wants to do law school. Same rules apply if you're in richmond, nyc, boston, chicago (maybe rerecruit internally if you're in Plano). 

tldr comp bump is nothing, exits ops are useless, have fun seniors year/post-grad bc a few 000s will be nothing to you post law school.

 

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