Career advice needed!!! Wtf do I do????
A couple of days ago I met a partner/MD at one of the better SMs (think third point/Slate Path/Candlestick type fund) at a bar in NYC and got drinks with them for 6 hours (I had no idea they were who they were, just struck up a conversation with the person sitting next to me and eventually told them who I was and talked investing with them for a while) and they offered me an internship for this summer.
I'm a student at a decent school and was originally planning to go to P72/CAP this summer, but now that this is on the table, I have no idea what to do anymore. I want to eventually end up in the public markets and am well aware that seats at these funds are very rare and hard to come by, but I don't know if the right move is to take this internship and hopefully stay there full-time? The person I talked to seemed great tbf and better than the P72/C people :)
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
EDIT: THANK YOU ALL FOR THE ADVICE, IM TAKING THE SM.
Decided to bet on myself, and if I perform well,l I can probably bounce around even if I don't get a return. Renegging on the summer assoc/academy offer.
do you actually have an offer from them in writing? maybe get to that point first
No, I got the phone # of the person whom I talked to and texted them the next day (as we were both somewhat drunk at the end of the night and didn't want to seem obnoxious) and asked if the offer was still on the table, and they said yes. They said to let them know if I would join them this summer and they would send over "onboarding stuff" which I assume would be the offer?
!remindme 3 years
Rooting for ya kid.
Congrats, you’re obviously smart and will do well in the industry. My advice would be to take your existing offer and stay in touch with this guy. Tell him that after speaking with a mentor you feel that it would be a bad decision to renege and that you are interested in the relatively greater “training” resources p72/c can provide you with. Also, this business is about people, you’d meet more people (future connections in corporate roles, PMs, Senior Analysts) at one of the larger firms.
OP here
I was thinking of saying that I am interested in completing the program at C/P72 over the summer and then transitioning to them FT if they'd be okay with that. That way, I get the benefit of doing a training program on the dime of someone else and transition there after that. If they needed to, I could interview before going there FT, just so they know I'm good to go.
I was also going to text the person and meet with them again, as they are a really cool individual. Def don't want to lose this connection.
Edit: nvm I took the SM :)
Would take this in a heartbeat. You've got a senior already vouching for you. No brainer that this is better than starting with everyone else at ground zero at P72/CAP. Congrats.
Edit: THE BOY IS IN HE'S GONNA DO IT 🚀🚀🚀
Eh not sure. There’s likely no historical pathway or guide to getting a return offer at said firm.
It’s a better seat than a random P72 pod for sure, but would do the MM SA and leverage the return for a full time or final year SA at the single manager
Would not say it’s better for career than starting at Citadel specifically though. Stay in touch, try to intern there, spend a year or 2 at citadel and go through the ringer and then move over after
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That's such a low level way of thinking about it though. This is also a shop (assuming by the names OP listed) that would rarely give out internship offers to begin with. And this isn't like a "my daddy owns a big stake in the fund so they're going to let me sit around for 3 months pushing paper and claim I interned there" situation, OP sat down for 6 hours with a senior leader at the fund and managed to endear/impress them enough to out of the blue offer up a seat. That's BONKERS. Even if they CAN'T give him a FT offer after working there, if he does a good job that's a place where he can get some very strong recs and be taken seriously by any fund he cares to recruit at even if it's going back to CAP/P72 for FT recruiting.
Why would the SM feel more warmly about giving him a FT return if he blows them off to summer at a pod? It's possible sure but if I were in that partner/MD's shoes I'd think "why should I bring you back after you said no before?". I'm for sure projecting but... idk this just seems too interesting an opportunity to pass up over hypothesizing a bunch of "what ifs".
I don't disagree with this statement. I think objectively you're correct that the full swath of optionality available for someone starting at Citadel will be better than whatever single manager this is. But pod shops (IMO) are just a shakier place to start in general (less job security when considering the odds of just getting stomped out by risk limits) and frankly would "stand out" less than an internship at a place like this.
Maybe I'm just a naïve risk taker and purely looking at this as if I were in OPs shoes 10yrs ago, but my gut would be doing flips in this scenario and my "karmic sense" would screaming that the SM is the more compelling opportunity. If I'm confident in myself (and if OP already has the offer from the pod, he should be), I'd want to go for broke and try my luck at the top SM extending me a shot than go be one of a group of kids trying to stand out amongst pod hopefuls. It's the higher risk/higher reward decision to make and these days I'd always recommend someone taking that shot on goal whenever it's presented. Life's too short and these opportunities don't come along often.
Is there a route to FT role after? If so I might take it. this guy already likes you and having a mentor in this industry especially in today's day and age is so rare and valuable. you likely won't get that at P72
Feel good 80's movie ahh story
The homeless guy on the street is actually Jesus ahh story
Genuinely still in shock. Probably one of the luckiest things that will ever happen in my life lol.
The more I lick ass the luckier I get it
Strongly would recommend taking the offer. Think of it from the perspective of you being a commodity to a P72/C type institution, whereas you have a smaller (albeit great) firm with a senior vouching heavy for you. Check the PM AUM history and then see how they perform as a backstop to make sure you’re making the right call, but imo the training benefits you’d get from a more structured program are immediately outweighed by the fact that this PM clearly jives with you and your investing style.
Kid, you got someone clearly willing to mentor you already. You should tell him that you already have an offer to one of the academies but also excited at the prospect of working at their fund instead. Ask for advice on how you should think about the opportunities and go about potentially reneging on the academy offer. This accomplishes a few things. 1) You will get a sense of whether this person will be as supportive of you as you hope they will and 2) Yoi get to broach the question of how does this potentially convert into anything full-time as well without directly asking for a job.
Ceterus paribus, as I wrote above, the harder to come by opportunity is almost always better. You just need to diligence how much support and guidance and teaching you will get at this SM fund, above all else. If they teach you how to fish properly, you can take that and get another offer somewhere else with the brand name on your resume. Good luck with the decision
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Ngl I wanna know what all these comments the mods are removing said...
They were my posts, looks like just a bug since they’re all back now and I look like a crazy person saying the same shit 3x lol
Gotta love the auto mod trying to find something you said offensive haha
The most important thing at this point in your career is to have a strong mentor that is willing to take a risk on you.
You have found that and even if you don't get an offer FT for this role, the fact that you have someone experienced willing to vouch for you after only a few hours of meeting says something about your potential.
So don't squander it and grab the hand that's willing to pull you up.
Seriously listen to this OP. As much as we all like to pretend this industry is based on merit, in reality a lot of it comes down to who extends a helping hand and gives you a leg up. Sure the performance comes down to you, but you need someone to set you up to perform - and I can't imagine a better scenario than a partner who's willing to pick you out of the blue after sitting down with you for a few hours and give you the internship opportunity of a lifetime.
Poor kid just got gaslit by people that don’t even work in the industry.
Could’ve at least explained your situation to them and seen if they’d be open to an opportunity after your summer.
Let’s hope you kill it and that they give full times, otherwise this post is a cautionary tale. Good luck.
Hey, college student interested in publics here. Out of curiosity, what did you end up chatting with the partner about that it impressed him enough to give you an offer on the spot? Also, if you wouldn’t mind sharing how you approached learning about investing (any helpful books, resources, etc.), would be greatly appreciated! I understand you might want to keep this private, so I’d be happy to chat over DMs as well. Thanks!
I'm a pretty social guy, and more so when I'm drinking, so I just introduced myself to the person next to me and we chatted just generally, told them where I go to school, and they said they have some buddies from there. I asked what they do now, and yeah. Really nice person. I then told them that I love investing, have been doing it since middle school, and talked about my internship last summer, and they asked me about some names I've been looking into/investing in and my thesis on them, and so we talked about that for a good while, and I walked them through my thinking for each of the names that I was looking at and each of the names I invested in (I think one that they really liked was a macro vol play I had on a pawn shop stock). Other than that, we just chatted generally about their life and what they would have done differently if they were my age, and talked a lot about Texas football (neither of us went to UT; we were just fans).
How I've approached investing:
ALSO KEEP IN MIND I AM A DUMBASS COLLEGE STUDENT. 99% OF PEOPLE ON THIS SITE ARE MOUNDS MORE KNOWLEDGABLE ABOUT INVESTING THAN I AM.
I try and find companies that don't have much competition. Competition erodes profit.
I try and think about companies 3-5 years out and how they can compound their businesses over time. I think that a key to superior returns in traditional stock picking is just patience. Think about the long term.
I like it when the barrier of entry to becoming a competitor is very high. This doesn't just have to be a financial barrier.
It's nice when management is shareholder oriented but doesn't always have to be (depends on business)
For shorts, it's mostly pattern recognition (from what I've seen)
There's many signs that will tell you that a stock might not work (CEO selling shares, products don't really work, stock is up 100x when nothing has changed whatsoever). If there's enough "red flags" then the company is probably wrong.
I can't really speak on the short side too much as I don't really have much experience shorting companies.
Some useful readings:
Psychology of Human Misjudgement - Charlie Munger
Berkshire Hathaway letters to shareholders
Nomad Letters
Buffet: Making of American Capitalist
The Warren Buffet Way - Robert Hagstrom
The Intelligent Investor - Bill Graham
Of course, there are many more readings but my advice is to read as much as you can. I know Third Point provides some shareholder letters, so do some other funds - REALLY SEE HOW THESE PEOPLE THINK ABOUT THEIR INVESTMENTS. I know Elliot has also done this (I think?). But basically absorb a bunch of information on as much as you can, and always keep learning.
Also don't be an arrogant asshole. Be a nice person. Most people are much more intelligent and experienced than you. Learn from them.
Thank you so much! I’m curious, do you just create pitches for fun while following the market? Also, are there any resources you’d recommend for the basics of investing or did you learn just by reading some of the memos and notes put out by funds?
Funny thing is 99% of people on this site are also college students so you prob indeed have more knowledge than them
Nice man. Barriers to entry
Did you ask them "may I meet you"?
lol we talked about Bill Ackman
lol can i pm ?s about just getting opportunities at P72/C. That in itself is enough haha
Congrats! I don’t know you, but I’m excited for you anyways. Sounds like this was a best case scenario - top-tier role plus a great mentor to boot.
May I ask how do you develop your skills? Many thanks!
Posted a response to @sunwukong1008 earlier on this thread.
Thanks! May I ask what do you mean by saying "I think one that they really liked was a macro vol play I had on a pawn shop stock." Do you mean thesis driven by macro volatility ? Appreciate that!
don't know anything about you but can just tell from reading this you will be successful given how humble and passionate you are about equities. just thought I would post to keep up the good work. Really well done
Thank you so much this means a lot lol. Long time to go until then but fingers crossed :)
Wait are there actually people who go out to bars and just sit there by themselves?
Who talks shop with a stranger for six hours at a bar? Are they trying to get into your pants?
If it’s legit, no brainer. You can be the Jamie Dimon to Sandy Weill, Jimmy Levin / Danny Och, etc.
Citadel/P72 whatever training programs is a dime a dozen.
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