Frustrated - wanted to vent
Meh - I've been pushing hard to get out of my RIA job into HF L/S space. Probably just made a very stupid move by turning down an offer at one small ~$400mn L/S fund in hopes of getting an offer at another place. The place with the offer didn't seem right ultimately, but maybe I got overly confident.
Jut got dinged at this other fund though (for the same reason 2 large places dinged me a few months back - "we think you are really smart and capable, but we need someone with more sector experience.") It is actually the 3rd time I have heard that after minimum of 4 interviews in, even though when each started the process they knew I come from a generalist background. In reality it is probably "you didn't do IB or SS ER, so why go with a risk over these other people?"
Now I am back to zero leads, and starting up the cold email process from square one. I know this is a numbers game and required determination, I just hate getting cut before a case round because I have already successfully passed a case round now and know I should be able to impress on that round (or hope?).
Yes this is a pity post, just wanted to vent, so feel free to throw some MS. It all works out in the end (I hope), I'll keep my head down and keep pushing, keep improving, keep learning. I can't imagine doing anything else... that is the scariest part though... what the hell am I going to do if I never make it. Or is it just a reality that I won't make it because if I deserved to make it I would already be there. Fuck it, back to earnings...
PS: Why did I turn down that first offer? - well I have always felt like I got to where I am today because I settled for worse "prestige" or "name brand" positions (turned down SS ER at one point years ago), and just accepted places where I thought I could learn the most about fundamental equity investing. I didn't want to go somewhere again where I'll undoubtedly learn a lot, but still struggle to "move up" (all whilst making the same amount of money for the most part).
Sigh - They always fking want someone with more sector experience (but want to pay junior analyst salary of course)
I got rejected plenty by cushy LOs right before case round and then they ended up hiring someone with like 8+ years of buy-side experience (vs me coming from SS ER). It's just the industry structure - low turnover (HF or LOs), "if you are on the inside, you are on the outside" kinda industry if you don't fit the standard mold of IB / PE / ER background.
To rub salt into the wound, every shop thinks they are differentiated (they aren't) so they are so particular about a candidate profile, that just slight deviation from it can derail your candidacy.
IT'S THEIR LOSS. Keep on the fight if you want it bad enough.
Obligatory no HF knowledge or experience, but your post really resonated with my past job hunt experience. I was in Consulting for a number of years and was looking to make the jump to Corp Dev. I could gain traction but I would regularly get dinged in the first round due to lack of experience (i.e., I didnt have the generic two years of IBD experience). Should go without saying but I had never consistently been dinged except during superdays so I knew it was experience-specific (some of the firms were candid about this as well).
My advice to you would be to take the next role that resembles the one you turned down. If you get a HF offer that doesnt feel perfect, doesnt hit your comp expectations, but aligns to your long-term career obligations, take it. It would be ignorant of me to tell you that you should have accepted the role, but for me, I had to take a less than optimal Corp Dev role in order to land a solid one. Yes it is an extra hurdle and more recruiting is required, but sometimes you arent well positioned enough to make a jump into a new industry at a really strong firm.
In other words, its worth it to take a pay cut in order to enter the industry you so badly want to play in so that you can make a hop later on to a more established and quality firm.
Just the $0.02 from a guy who was trying to break into an industry with sub-optimal experience. Best of luck to you
Definitely agree - I think I got wrapped up in some advice from some other people and got more confident that I was going to land the next role. Appreciate you sharing though.
I dont blame you, nor necessarily think you made a mistake. I am a firm believer of trusting your gut. Best of luck to you as you continue recruiting, Im rooting for you
Keep your head down and keep grinding. Like you said it is a numbers game.
Delete - accidental comment
Maybe this will help you get rid of some of that FOMO from turning it down. Chances are the employees at that $400M fund will be faced with this exact thought when their fund closes down in a few years and they have no transferable skills. You dodged a bullet. Everyone has to believe they'll be the exception, but the base rate for subscale funds working out is pretty low. Just keep hustling and being opportunistic - you'll figure it out.
what do you mean no transferrable skills? hate to break it to you, but the l/s analyst skillset is fairly commoditized
I agree, it's commoditized. Will find a hard time finding another job in the industry. And the skillset isn't very transferable to jobs outside the industry. Not sure what the contention is?
You turned down a hedge fund role because they pay was bad or because the firm didn’t have prestige in your eyes? Can you suck up your pride and reach out to them again?
I don't know why this is getting MS. Sure it's humiliating, but still, the odds are greater than zero so why not try
Lol you know why I get downvoted constantly, don’t fake ignorance :)
The key point is that they have been around for +10 years and were at ~$300mn or so for the last 6 years and only recently got up to $400mn and have 6 investment professionals already which seems way too high. The pay would be roughly the same to what I am earning now so it felt like why go somewhere that I most likely would end up trying to leave after 1-2 years and start recruiting for the same jobs all over again when I am already getting traction at the places I like. I also was getting great feedback at this other fund before I got dinged (lol). Anyways obviously I regret my decision, but appreciate your commentary.
The most important part of your situation was here at the end. You have a chip on your shoulder and are insecure about your career choices because you care about prestige over experience. If you are truly gaining quality investing experience you should be able to make your career work out, one way or another. I also disagree it is your generalist vs. sector experience that has been holding you back, at least in that one example. Once you're in the door, it is fair game and up to you to make the lasting impression. Unless someone was really, specifically looking for a specialist and you shouldn't have even been waived in I'm confident there is a way to sell your background.
I think you should reflect on what you really want. If you are a good hedge fund analyst then why do you care about prestige? All you should care about is how much money a fund has and what that means for your earning potential. There is a comp ceiling to prestige-only credit...
Hey there appreciate the input - I think I am the literal opposite of chip on shoulder / prestige whoring but I can understand why it comes across that way. Some feedback I have gotten has been: you didn't take the BB SS ER jobs and went to this place instead? Well I did it because I wanted to be an investor and keep growing through a role where I have been given a lot of responsibility - I have ownership of names in the portfolio currently, I am part of our "investment committee" and my feedback is as valued as my bosses at our discussions. I pitch new stocks all the time and initiate new positions. I build models and do DCFs and invest in a variety of situations. The problem is from a comp standpoint there will be a limit to my growth here as we charge no performance fee and returns don't drive our business as much as gathering new clients, so going out to become an advisor is the real growth path longer term. From a resume standpoint everyone sees RIA and will give IB or ER looks before me. This is not complaining and I don't regret for what I have learned, but sometimes I wish I was more calculating like current undergrad hardos about what exit options look like.
I don't actually think being a generalist is the real issue holding me back, it was more so saying that is the "excuse" they give when I got rejected. At two places, I networked in super hard through cold pitches and all of their previous hires were GS/JPM + APO/TPG guys. Feedback there was that I was really impressive but they wanted someone with more industrials sector experience. Although this past fund I just dinged at was healthcare sector specific, and I would only be medtech / life sciences, but it definitely makes sense in the second circumstance as a true issue vs. me just not being good enough.
I don't give a shit about prestige - my last two jobs have had zero prestige. I want to work somewhere where I can grow and learn from successful PMs, and where I can get a chance at upside for doing good work. This $400mn fund offered me the same base as now and bonus opportunities marginally better vs. what I have now (like maybe 30-40k different at most), which makes sense given the number of IPs they have. All that being said, I do appreciate the input!
Why not accept the hedge fund offer and continue the job search before starting your new job?
The only difference is that rescinding an offer you have accepted may burn a bridge. But rejecting an offer after a bunch of interview rounds might do the same thing.
Dude I can’t believe I’m wasting time posting this here but for god sake take the 400 mn HF offer dude. I’ve seen guys go from 100mn SM to massive pod PM. Just get ur foot in the door man. Makes a huge difference trust me
I did exactly the same mistake and been living with regret since then
I said this in a comment above, but the best thing you can do is let go of the FOMO. Honestly there is nothing the "best" investors can teach you that you cannot learn yourself. Will it take more time and hard work? Sure. But if you really want to get good at this craft then you can do it even without being at a little subscale fund.
If you want to shoot your shot at pod shop glory with a $5b book then ok maybe you can't self-learn that. But then sell side ER would work just as well, if not better.
Seems dumb/reckless to decline the offer simply because the salary is too and there aren’t any “prospects for growth”. Nobody’s saying you need to stay there for your whole life, but just a few years there would help you transfer to another fund pretty easily.
Hard truth, but starting from where you are you cannot expect to jump directly into your dream role and immediately earn an outrageous salary.
Totally understand- at the time I was still in later rounds with another fund. Was more about being concerned that I would still struggle to move to another fund in two years anyways and i don’t want to move somewhere again where I know I’ll learn but have no shot at moving upwards, which was my last decision when I accepted my current job.
I obviously recognize that citadel and Viking aren’t real options for me and that’s not what I’m pursuing, but it was my 4th interview with this other fund when I got dinged and it was a much better opportunity. I also definitely feel bad about my choice per the post, but I deliberated for a while and sought advice from different people. Anyways, appreciate the input!
Well, well, well, sounds like you're having a bit of a rough trot, mate! Turning down an offer from a small $400mn L/S fund? That's a bit like turning down a cuppa from the Queen, isn't it? But hey, we all make mistakes. It's like when I turned down a date with Cheryl Cole back in '08 because I thought I had a chance with Susan Boyle. Rookie mistake, I know.
But don't you worry, sunshine, you're not alone. The ol' rejection letter can sting worse than a bite from a drop bear, but it's all part of the game. You just gotta keep your head up, keep grinding, and keep sending those cold emails like it's your job. Oh wait, it is your job now, isn't it?
And hey, if it makes you feel any better, I've heard that sector experience is overrated anyway. I mean, who needs to know anything about a specific industry when you can just throw darts at a board and hope for the best? That's how I invest my pension, and it's been working out pretty well so far.
So keep on keepin' on, my friend. You're a smart and capable bloke, and you'll find your place in this crazy world of finance. And if all else fails, there's always a spot for you at the pub for a pint and a good ol' fashioned moan. Cheers!
Love seeing this uplifting energy! Gosh I love the Brits lol. Thankful to have my good British friend for so many years that cheers me up when life gets me down.
Turn down an offer from here? https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3399681476/
Do you work there? lol
What does RIA stand for? Thanks in advance
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