HF Graduate Program Thread
Have lots of friends who just finished their '26 internships at HFs (P72 Academy, Weiss, Citadel, DE Shaw) and I put their thoughts here.
P72 Academy - great training program, little bit political, get to become "analyst" after 6mo in Academy FT. RO rate was lower than historical (~60% vs 80%) but overall recommend.
CAP - Great training program and attracts the best talent; caveat is that out of the small class, only a few CAPs get placed on top pods. Few associates become analyst in general
Weiss - Low RO rate but great seat if you can get RO (my friend term-timed since college is nearby) and enjoy Boston
DESCO - same comment as Weiss but in NYC
Bridgewater - "fuck this place"
Don't really know anything about LOs, would love to hear any opinions
Based on the most helpful WSO content and insights from your thread:
P72 Academy: Known for its structured training program, it offers a solid pathway to becoming an analyst after six months in the Academy full-time. However, the return offer (RO) rate has dipped to ~60% from the historical ~80%, which is worth noting. Despite the slight political environment, it remains a strong recommendation for those looking to break into hedge funds.
Citadel Associate Program (CAP): A highly competitive program that attracts top-tier talent. While the training is excellent, only a small portion of the class secures placements in the top-performing pods. Additionally, the transition from associate to analyst is rare, making it a challenging but rewarding path for the right candidates.
Weiss Asset Management: Offers a great opportunity if you can secure a return offer, though the RO rate is notably low. It's a strong seat for those who enjoy Boston and are willing to take the risk for the potential reward.
D.E. Shaw (DESCO): Similar to Weiss, it provides a great opportunity but with a low RO rate. The NYC location might appeal to those looking for a vibrant financial hub.
Bridgewater: The feedback here is less than favorable, with a blunt "avoid" sentiment. It seems the culture or environment might not align with many candidates' expectations.
If you're considering these programs, weigh the training quality, RO rates, and cultural fit carefully. Each has its pros and cons, but all offer unique opportunities for those aiming to excel in hedge funds.
Sources: How to get a Hedge Fund Internship, Q&A: HF out of undergrad, ~5 years later, https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/hedge-fund/the-hedge-fund-experience-good-bad-ugly?customgpt=1, Hedge Fund Careers: Getting a Hedge Fund Job Out of Undergrad and Beyond, Hedge Fund Careers: Getting a Hedge Fund Job Out of Undergrad and Beyond
For “CAP few associates become analyst”. I’m not an expert but CAP hasn’t even been around long enough for the oldest cohort to become analysts…
I think once you’re an associate you’re not treated any differently vs an associate that joined from banking or 2+2.
CAP was started in 2020 so first 2 cohorts should be analysts now and afaik there is only 1 or 2 analysts
This is wrong. The first CAP class was for undergrads who graduated in 2022, and I have a good friend in this class. That would put the oldest people from CAP at ~3 years into the job. Most people from this cohort are now senior associates.
Obviously there won’t be any analysts that are 3 years out of undergrad.
P72 has great training, it’s the oldest program, and academy associates have gone on to become PMs at P72 or have been successful at the other platforms. Ive been impressed with the people who come out of the academy, but that is likely a testament to the types of people these programs attract (type A, top of their class in undergrad, hungry, smart etc) and maybe not a function of the academy being so great at training analysts. However, it’s the most cut throat, they hire too many people which results in a lower return-offer rate and they fire associates before they finish the academy. In general, P72 is a great place to be a PM (much, much looser risk limits), but not a great place to be an analyst (very few analysts have real attribution / manage sleeves, so they can get screwed on pay)
CAP is a newer program and it’s smaller than the academy. Since it’s smaller I’ve interacted with fewer people who have done this program, but in general I’d say they have been smarter/more talented than those from other programs or associates who have come from other channels (PE, banking). This might be reflective of what OP was saying around Citadel attracting the best undergrad talent. Citadel, in general, can be a cut throat environment for juniors as everything is tracked. Your estimates and previews are submitted and benchmarked vs others in the firm, you participate in a simulator of sorts (they call this alpha tracker) which is used to track your ideas and determine whether you can become an analyst. However, if you’re a good associate and can make money in your coverage, this obviously won’t be an issue and you can ultimately become an analyst and PM. Citadel (most of citadel, to be clear) is great place to be an analyst as you usually manage capital, have attribution, can get economics, manage a junior or 2 (you can at P72 as well), and can make meaningful, life changing amounts of money without being a PM. In general, the teams tend to manage a bit more GMV than other platforms, but the risk model is stricter.
DESCO, I believe, pays more for undergrads than the other programs, but I don’t know anyone who has worked in this program. I don’t know Weiss and thought that firm closed?
In general if I was a graduate today and wanted to work in this industry, I think these programs can be an accelerated path to becoming a PM. A lot of you kids could, in theory, graduate at 22 and be a PM at age 30
Yeah from what I heard from friends seems like P72 Academy and CAP are not as different as people make it out to be. I think CAP has better return rate because of the quality people they hire vs. Point72 who is just screens for general intelligence + interest in investing
MLP program is ok. Pretty chill and some good teams hiring in the matching process
Millennium has an undergraduate program? Didn’t know that
Does Balyasny have as well?
MLP hires FT analysts not sure about SA. Baly runs internship program at my school and a couple of others
I don’t know about baly but MLP has had a grad program for a few years in NY & LDN. We recently started a HK one too. Involves a secondment at ubs so it is really chill compared to the training periods at p72 and CAP
Are these programs open only to undergrads, or can international students apply via an MBA program from an M7 (like Harvard, Wharton, Stanford, Columbia, or Booth) or NYU? (Given the STEM OPT MBA = 3-year work authorization).
I have heard that P72 has faced an issue where they insist on benchmarking pay for relatively young analysts(25-30 yrs old) to fixed bands of pay based on YOE.
But the pay benchmarks being quoted internally are 30-50% of what Citadel and even Baly have been offering people on guarantees, hence many of them leave.
Supposedly there might have been some moves internally as of late to address this via guarantees or higher base etc, but based on conversations it's pretty clear that the median analyst gets paid noticeably less especially in banner years.
Can you put some numbers on it? What have you heard for the P72 bands, what have you heard for guarantees moving from P72 to C/B, and what are the new P72 numbers?
can confirm this. unfortunately true
Any updated insights for fundamental roles at quant hedge funds (e.g. Two Sigma) and prop trading firms (e.g. Jane Street, Citadel Securities, SIG, Optiver, etc.)?
The pay is great but personally not a fan of them. I believe a lot of the fundamental work done at prop shops is very event/catalyst driven, and to support their options trader on vol, less so directional, views. You won’t really develop a skill set to become a trader, which is the seat to be at those shops. If one was looking to do L/S eventually, I’d much rather do P72/CAP or IB/PE to get a better training.
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