London/Europe Buyside 2022 Comp
There's robust forums on US comp. Europe total comp is less transparent so let's use this forum as a way to gauge personal vs market comp.
I'll start.
Yrs of experience: 3, years on buyside 2.
SM mrkt neutral <$1B, fund is up +3% net.
Base: £72k, bonus £40K
Thanks for this, I often feel bad seeing the crazy US comp
5y exp, all in buyside, 2bn systematic fund
2021 100k base 60k bonus, fund down -5%
2022: 110k base, don't know bonus yet, funds up 12%
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What drives the big discrepancies between US and UK comp?
Curious to see MM comp in the UK
MM comp will be closer as formulas are almost the same in Europe and US, base might be a bit lower in Europe but it won't impact much TC
Why wages lower in Europe ? I am not sure,
But I think it is the case not only for finance but for all sectors.
When I read that IT dev get 200k$ in the US, it just seems crazy for Europe.
I have friends working for Deloitte/BCG/KPMG, I don't know their exact total comp but from our discussions it is around 150k, which would seem low for US guys
Just thought about my surgeon' friends. They haven't finished yet their studies (10y total), but they told me they hope to start working around 100/150k comp
Pretty sure hat would make a US surgeon laugh
Yes some of the salaries I hear about outside of finance are also considerably higher in the US vs. UK.
I suppose the lower cost of living in London vs. NY accounts for some of that, but the differences are pretty staggering regardless
Before 2008 UK comp was a lot closer to US, since then GBP has weakened from 2 to 1.2.
Do you happen to know what the primary drivers of the divergence in GBP/USD price was?
3 y exp., all in buyside, midsized AM (100bn+ AUM). Just changed jobs.
Base 2022: 80k w/ indicated sign-on bonus of 25k. Not in a major financial hub.
Base 2022 previous job was 50k, 2021 bonus was 35k + additional comp worth 20k-ish.
1yr exp buyside, 2yrs in finance overall
£100k base
London
Not sure what bonus will be, will update when I receive
Update on bonus? :)
YOE: 1, Years on buy-side 1
Grad program @ multimanager
Base: £100k ish 20k signing. No colour on bonus yet
Same figures. Pretty standard for junior role at a MMHF in London.
What's your academic background like?
Non-finance, ok grades.
Mind sharing academic background?
PM base at pods depending on track and size anywhere from £225-350k. SMs slightly lower given different drawdowns. Bonus wide range, also depending on share of fees / equity ownership etc.
3 years experience on sell side and 1 year on the buy side at US long only.
Mediocre/bad year
Base: £120k
Bonus: £60k
The numbers from the posters above (excluding the multi managers) seem quite low to me. Especially when considering that most ER associates are now on bases above £100k. ER VP base is now £150k at the bulge brackets. Why would anyone leave the sell side for these numbers?
ER associates = the most junior role in the sellside ?
In London, they are definitely not paid that much.
Sorry for the confusion. Just to clarify I mean people internally ranked as “associate”. Although externally the Analyst/Associate ranks are flipped, internally at my old BB shop the hierarchy was still analyst/associate/VP/ED/MD. So by associate I mean those with 3-6 years experience.
I guess there are several reasons :
Would assume its because getting past VP in sell side ER is very difficult due to low turnover + going to the buyside is what everyone else is doing and seems more exciting.
Agree some of the no.s seem low
My take is:
- Buyside comp can rise a lot after 5-7 yrs experience, if you are good. I think lots of people especially grads on the LO side join and tolerate being not paid that well for some years thinking it can get good over time.
- You will know as well as me but as you get more senior, buy-side role is an investor and sell-side is a salesman. A lot of people want to be investors and not sales people.
4yrs of buyside experience / Continental Europe
2019: Equity LO, AUM ~$1bn, $80k base + $20 bonus
2020: L/S Equity HF, $90k base + $30 bonus
2021: L/S Equity HF, $100k base + $30 bonus
2022: L/S Equity HF, $100k base + (bonus not yet communicated)
2020 switched job and fund had very good year, 2021 not great year, 2022 bad year. Same HF since 2020, small one.
4YOE. 1 yr sellside, 3rd year buyside. £150k base. All in £350k. Work at MM.
That's some good cheddar, congrats.
just curious to know how much is base at MM for someone joining with 1,5/2Y of experience in ER/IB if 100k is the starting base salary for fresh grads?
£110k
100k is the starting base for fresh grads where?
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8 years of experience, 5 on buyside.
£155k base. Bonus not officially communicated yet but it's a formula so I can work it out to a pretty tight range now. Expecting £280-330k. Some of that will get deferred. Mediocre year for the strategy I work on (we didn't lose money).
In one of the huge global AMs that does every kind of strategy. I work on an equity L/S strategy. At the moment I have a senior analyst / #2 to PM type role.
Last year (more junior role & title) was £120k + £150k - in a much better year for the team (high single digit % alpha).
Is that £280k-330k bonus or all-in?
Quite a nice jump from prior year, assuming the above is all bonus
That's bonus so call it ~£450k all-in. Thought would be useful to give a practical example of how comp starts to ramp up meaningfully after ~5 years on the buyside given some other people have been discussing it.
How do you know that’s the range you’ll get in comp despite the average performance?
Sensing two elements to the question: "how do you know the number" and "why are you getting paid in a mediocre year". Will try and explain both.
1) It's a formula where I know what most of the inputs are now that 2022 is over. Not all of the inputs are purely last 12 months peformance - I don't work at a pure 'eat-what-you-kill' type shop. If I was I would've been paid a lot more in 2021 given the numbers we put up then.
2) Last 12 months were mediocre vs previous few years, but still slightly up. Most places I've looked at working you'd still get paid in years like that, obviously not as well as in good years. The comp numbers for 2022 are "average" - would be a lot lower if we lost significant amounts of money, could be a lot higher in a good year.
That’s the base for PMs at MMs
Just started my first role on the buy-side, at an Event Driven MM. 4 years experience prior to that.
Base is £90k. Bonus will be discretionary - no idea of range at this stage.
What dis you do and what was your comp before?
You do L/S now?
Thanks
Not topic related but what has been your path to get into event-driven team ? IBD ?
Thx
I did M&A for 2.5 years followed by 1.5 years PE
YOE: 8 / Buyside 4
Special Sits fund (European team of a US fund)
Base: £150k. TC: £460k all cash
Nice numbers. Care to give some insight into comp for As1 at your special sits fund? In the process of recruiting for a few SS funds and want something to benchmark against
Generally £90-100k base and bonus in the 100-150% range. TC should be £180k for AS1 going towards £250k for AS3
3 YOE total; 3 YOE buyside
LO AM 100bn+ AUM
Tech fund --> bad year
100k base; bonus 20-30k
Continental Europe
For reference, if last year was a good one, what was comp? 30% bonus is really low.
Not sure if it should matter or not, but I only joined my current fund/company in mid summer, so this is for 5/6 months work. Also this is just indicative, don't actually know what the final number is yet.
What's a reasonable % range in your opinion for my experience/position?
5 years sellside, 1 year buyside. LO AM
£95k base
£20k bonus
Ngl this kind of seems terrible. On sell side your base would be higher than your current total comp? Assuming VP1 6 years in. What's the logic behind a move here?
I wasn't in London or ER prior to the move
Jesus, the amount people are underpaid in London is scary.
There aren’t that many good funds in London so data will skew negative.
every US fund has a London office
YOE:4.5 (all on buy-side, joined out of undergrad).
Base: £130k, Bonus: £50k. (TC: £180k).
Very large LO AM. Pretty sweet gig with hours no longer than 50-60. I make about 75% of IB money with 75% of the hours.
Off topic, but do you know much about ninety one in London?
The name rings a bell - did this used to be Investec? I don't know very much besides anecdotally from former colleagues and classmates. They have a very large presence for a foreign asset manager - similar to that of Vanguard, TRP, etc. Pay is very good - but they've experienced significant outflows this year.
Can comment on the special sits team. Hired the top 2 guys from OakHil illiquid to start a new SSG team in London. Hired 4/5 juniors (EQT, HL, etc). Raised I think £750m (but could be up to £900m) so not really big. Would not expect top of the market comp at this stage but potentially good upside if it works out.
any colour on comp in a (large) pension setting (Canadians, etc.)
bump
Posted somewhere else before but numbers have changed slightly.
YoE (since Grad / on Buyside): 2 / 1
Strategy: Quant Alternative
Total 2022 Comp (Base + Bonus): ~£310k (~95 + ~215)
Company has been doing v well second half of the year. Expected bonus given an average year was closer to ~105.
Expecting ~£250k all in next year given average year (currently 100k base, expecting 150k bonus split).
Continental EU MM fund; high yield fixed income LO.
3 years xp sellside, 1 year buyside
2022: EUR 65K base, 25k bonus. Massively outperformed peers but still a mediocre year (flat returns, one major outflow)
2023: EUR 75k base, don't know how much bonus. Performance is strong and we have more than recovered AUM.
London MM
Strat: L/S equity
YoE (since grad / on buyside): 4 / 1
Total 2022 Comp (Base & Bonus): ~£330k (~120 + ~210)
Any ideas about the comp I should expect as an analyst at Gladstone?
Is the base salary at London SM far lower than in MM?
Thx
London MM
YoE: 1 at time
Base: 125 GBP
Bonus: 100% pro rated
YoE?
1 at the time
1 at the time
What are your hours like?
Around 9-7, Monday to Friday
This is an excellent thread! Just realised I must have been massively underpaid?
10 yrs exp (joined $500bn+ AUM LO AM after 5y in IB)
Comp progression:
Yr6: £105k + 50k
Yr7: £105k + 50k
Yr8: £135k + 60k (changed job to c.$1tn AuM)
Yr9: £135k + 40k
Yr10: £150k + 102k (changed job to $700b AuM, smaller but US so pays better)
Yr 11: £150k + current year unknown but won't be great because of AuM outflow last year
Btw, ever since I moved to buyside, I was told every year by every single firm that I'm already paid above industry and peers (because joined from IBD, and got pay raise through lateral hire, etc.., but not sure how much this is true though because pay is so un-transparent for buyside), so base does not get increased...
Can anyone please comment how much should I expect to get paid if moving to boutique LO (not interested in centralised model such as Capital/TRP/Fido)in the US?
Thanks a lot!
.
The Europoor meme is so real
European comp on mid-/senior level is dogsht compared to US one. I have a couple PM friends and both their absolute comp and progression is laughable. Unless successful founder or good track at a MM the equities industry in Europe pays terribly. Time that people make that clear to juniors and aspiring kids.
I was told by headhunters PM in London may get £250-300k + bonus fund dependent. That’s still much higher than analysts, that’s why everyone wanted to become a PM.
may I ask what’s the laughter comp progression that you heard about and what’s equivalent of senior analyst pay in the US?
I read from WSO that post-MBA is about $300-400k and senior analyst 500k - 7 figure? Is that accurate?
Figure is accurate. At the London arm of a big US AM. Our senior PMs are on £260k base - but this is about 10% of their TC (including deferred components like defer into funds).
Yeah, and I completely agree ppl should make it clear to juniors the comps in Europe is so miserable :(
How much do L/S at the big 4 MMs make? Some of these numbers are surprisingly very low. I'm at MF PE An1 and currently at 150k
London comp is trash unless you work at an MM or a US fund
Can‘t comment on NY vs Ldn equities comp, but keep in mind that life in London is much cheaper than in NY, especially post COVID. Just take look at the rent cost difference in sought-after locations or what eating out costs.
Jesus Christ. I'm an ASO at a US MF in London and will make ~£300k this year with 4 YOE. Is there any comp upside at all on the public side? Why would anyone make the switch given some of the numbers in this thread? Surely publics comp must be in line at the funds hiring out of the type of program I'm in, otherwise I can't see how they are able to attract talent.
One argument is that lower pay is compensated by more intellectually stimulating work (you are doing proper investing, based on your own judgement) and better hours and lifestyle (40-50 hours of work per week, no formatting/last minute calls/admin stuff, can plan your weekends and long holidays, etc), so some people may still want to move from IB/PE to public side, but to be honest, I've almost never seen any PE people in LO firms I've been at, there are some IBDer, but very few single digit number.
Don’t believe the above. No one and I mean no one is taking a material pay cut moving from PE to HF because the work is more interesting. Better lifestyle maybe but not cause it’s more interesting.
To answer the above comment - you work at a US MF: that’s why you get paid decent. Places like Elliott, TCI, Farallon or any of the big US funds will comp well (probably more than MF PE). Or go to Citadel and it’s not unheard of making 7figs with 5YOE. But we both know you’d never go to a shop like citadel cause you’re probably a PE / risk averse guy.
Bottom line is the big US funds rarely have seats open in London and when they do open up, they can hire whoever they want. They don’t need to attract talent from ppl like you on a regular basis.
In the end, you’ll just end up staying in PE cause the places that pay well either don’t hire or is a multimanager and PE guys don’t go there cause they don’t actually know anything about the HF game.
Also - why do you think a MF PE assoc is considered talent or even something that HFs all value? It’s not necessarily the case at all. Some shops like PE backgrounds but most don’t care.
Thanks for your comment, helpful context. It makes sense to me the funds with small investment teams most likely to look for the PE-type background (with the corresponding expectations on comp) will pay up. To your point, there's not a lot of seats, but on the flip side there's not as many PE seats in London as there are in NY either so while I'm sure competition is tough, there's just fewer seats in London in general.
That being said, I think your comment is needlessly disparaging. I know plenty of people that went to multi-managers from MF PE (or other transaction-related backgrounds, e.g. IBD) and are killing it. I haven't worked at a hedge fund but at the end of the day, a smart individual with an investing mindset should be able to excel in any kind of environment. Let's not kid ourselves, finance is not rocket science. 5 years of sell-side equity research experience is not a prerequisite for being smarter than the next guy.
The path from MF PE to HF is well trodden with a lot of resources and knowledge passed down from folks that have gone the public side so I think it's a bit ignorant to assume PE guys don't know anything about publics and are just doing it because it's the next step on "the path". This forum likes to make it seem that way but believe it or not, most of us are thoughtful individuals that carefully weigh career moves in the context of the optionality this job has granted us. That includes talking to friends and mentors that work at HFs (multi + single manager, which to your point are more interested in the PE skillset), exploring the MBA route, thinking about staying on, or pulling the plug and doing something else. And yes, comp factors heavily into this decision, hence my post in this thread.
Many of you have rather low salaries for your yoe. Do you at least have great wlb?
Might as well stay in ib otherwise. Junior Associates get close to 100k (3rd year in) then by vp you're at c.180k base. Sure some of you have very nice bonus upside but many bonuses mentioned are closer to that of an ib analyst
Don't mean to be offensive - just wondering what I'm missing as I'm considering next steps post ib..
If you are in LO public equities, your working hour is c. 50 per week or some places less, so WLB is considerably better than IBD (i.e. 40% reduction in time), and your total comps is still about 70-80% of IBD. Overall a good deal despite headline number appearing low. More importantly, you have a life, that's incredibly valuable to some people.
If you are in SM HF, your working hour may get slightly longer than LO or some really good places same, but your total comps will be better than IBD.
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