Need Some Advice on Best Path to Macro HF PM / Starting Own HF
Hi all, looking for some honest advice on optimal pathing toward a long-term goal of building a career at the intersection of macro and quant with the intent of carving out a niche in that overlap (macro trade with syst. overlay/research) and pursuing active risk-taking roles in rates/FX/vol. Ultimately, I want to progress to either becoming a PM at a macro HF or starting and running my own HF in that space.
Some background:
- 20yo in final year BS (majors Maths & Finance) at a non US/UK/EU university (strong reputation domestically, though I’m not fully sure how it is perceived globally) - top marks, high class rankings, particularly in trading, financial mathematics, and derivatives modelling/pricing subjects - also have ranked 1st/2nd in-campus/nationally in various uni competitions like integration bees and global markets comps, and have 130+ zetamac pbs. Previously held directorship position at the leading finance society in my country where I led an initiative to write and distribute weekly market updates to 6,000+ uni students nationally. Currently also casually macro trade FX/equities on a PA with ~ 20k USD, and have done some projects in macro vol modelling
- Incoming role at a BB in Rates/FX Trading (flagship / near top Rates and FX desks) with potential to move internally to overseas desks (particularly into rates/FX vol), which I’m very interested in - current location has minimal flow/liquidity in vol vs major hubs, so I’m keen to move overseas (LDN/NY) as early as possible
- Have spent a lot of time self teaching knowledge that I believed would be valuable through consistently reading up on a bunch of academic / central bank research papers on macro / funding markets plumbing, as well as going through papers/textbooks on the more technical / quant / vol side such as Hagan, Mercurio, other Springer, etc.
- Deliberately trying to position myself for active risk-taking seats where the combination of macro intuition and quantitative skillset is actually monetizable, particularly in rates/FX/vol
- Worth noting I’ve had multiple people in the industry (BB traders / ex HF traders) ask why I’m not going straight to a HF, which has made me question whether I might be under-optimising my starting point
As such, just looking for some advice on whether the path I’m on is actually optimal or if I should be more aggressive about repositioning early, e.g unsure on:
- Is a start in Rates/FX Trading at a BB (flagship Rates and FX desks) the best launchpad for this path, or should I be trying to lateral as early as possible into a hedge fund seat, if my goal is to be in a seat straight of uni with the steepest and quickest learning curve?
- How valuable is pushing for an internal transfer to a major hub (LDN/NY) early, especially for rates/FX vol exposure?
- For macro pods / macro PM paths, how important is direct vol experience vs coming from linear rates / FX and learning vol later (even if theory is self taught, but lacking exp in managing vol book)?Is it better to (A) Stay at the bank, build deep product + risk intuition (and ideally move desks/locations internally), then reassess my options; or (B) Move to a HF as early as possible, ie start applying LDN/NY/HK/SG macro HF grad trader roles now (prioritising ones where risk taking is possible early), though noting that I’d be applying from overseas?
- How should I be thinking about developing edge early beyond formal training, to best position myself for the LT goals I mentioned.
- For people who’ve actually ended up as macro PMs or started their own funds: what were the non-obvious things that mattered most in getting there (timing, seat, mentor, strategy, etc.)?
Any advice or blunt takes would be very greatly appreciated. Sorry for the super long post.
To carve out a niche at the intersection of macro and quant, and ultimately become a PM or start your own macro hedge fund, here’s a breakdown of actionable advice based on the most helpful WSO content:
1. Starting in Rates/FX Trading at a BB
2. Internal Transfer to Major Hubs (LDN/NY)
3. Volatility Experience vs. Linear Rates/FX
4. Stay at the Bank vs. Move to a HF Early
5. Developing Edge Early
6. Non-Obvious Factors for Success as a Macro PM
Final Thoughts
Your current path is well-aligned with your long-term goals. Focus on excelling in your BB role, gaining exposure to major hubs and volatility trading, and building a strong network. Transitioning to a HF after 2-3 years on the sell-side is a proven path to becoming a macro PM. Starting your own fund will require not only a strong track record but also the right market conditions and investor backing, so keep that as a long-term goal.
Good luck carving out your niche—sounds like you’re on a promising trajectory!
Sources: Q&A: Non-Target School to Portfolio Manager at a Top Hedge Fund – 6 Years Out of Undergrad, Macro: Rates and FX, Q&A: Non-Target School to Portfolio Manager at a Top Hedge Fund – 6 Years Out of Undergrad, 1st Year Macro HF Analyst: My Macro Framework
Would recommend a sellside seat. Usually if you don’t get into a HF grad program you have to start at a BB. Only real way to land a BB is to do their summer program. In addition if you fail, you have the sellside experience to fall back upon
NYC > London best but you can build good intuition in HK / SG as well
With HF the important thing is on the sellside desk when you cover clients to give great ideas and be likeable - a PM at a HF you cover may be the one hiring you
Sellside/buyside: Choosing sellside flattens the tail of potential outcomes. Lower probability of getting fired and riding the steep (financial/learning) curve of buyside roles. In EV terms, sellside is great for building a network (tremendous value), which will be critical for your longer term goals - having a portfolio of clients, plus internal prime brokerage and cap intro teams, that might want to seed or work for (with) you. As your career progresses, relationships become increasingly valuable for achieving your career goals - I cannot understate their value.
Location: NYC and London are meaningfully better options and should be your primary targets. Transferring from another office is a viable Plan B, but it’s still Plan B.
Vol: Not my area of expertise, but if it's not in your job scope, read vol books and trade options in your PA to develop this. It's definitely a different skillset and mindset than delta one.
Seat: You should be targeting NYC/London-based hedge fund roles now. Candidly, the bar is very high as a foreign candidate, but clearing it can save you years of slower progression. The sell-side → internal transfer route is a perfectly valid fallback, but it likely comes with a more gradual learning curve (but also the benefits listed previously).
General: This is worth reiterating. Think back to how people chose project partners in school - most picked people they liked and trusted, not just the smartest person. Then people enter the workforce and assume it’s purely meritocratic. It isn’t. To achieve your goals, a lot of people will have to 'bet' on you - because they like, trust, and/or respect you. Your job is to make that decision easy: be highly capable, but also reliable, low-friction, and someone people want to work with.
Hedge fund careers can be “nasty, brutish, and short.” You’re on a strong trajectory, but durability matters. Consistently compounding both your skill set and your network is what makes you robust over time.
Really appreciate the response - enormously helpful and definitely a lot to think about.
Just wanted to ask a bit more on the point of targeting HF grad roles now, did you have any advice on how to evaluate which roles are worth taking at the junior level compared to junior trading at a BB? I know a lot of HFs are introducing more grad recruitment pathways but I’ve seen quite a bit of concern over these roles being fairly peripheral/support/research focussed in BAU rather than actually serving as an accelerant towards a risk-taking in broader product/region coverage seat, which to my understanding (though from someone yet to enter the industry FT) could be a sub-optimal start to my career.
I've seen a number of people who started their careers in mid-office roles at hedge funds successfully transition to front office. Maybe I'm unfairly pigeonholing this track — it's a great route for people coming from second-tier schools and/or aren't the smartest person in the room, but are super reliable. It's a legit track, especially if you're capable in your role and flex it to impress a PM who'll onboard you as an analyst.
But you have as much opportunity on a sell-side desk to impress that PM — plus hundreds of others you interact with — to land a hedge fund seat. So my recommendation is to start sell-side.
Sorry, I have little to share re training and junior PM incubation programs.
I haven't even tried to "walk you off the ledge" of having such strong ambitions at such an early and unproven career stage. There's a high probability you're setting yourself up for failure - and unhappiness - unless you're resilient and resourceful, which I hope you're developing alongside your markets skillset.
On that note — I always found Conan O'Brien's 2011 Dartmouth commencement speech, given soon after he lost the Tonight Show, very poignant. One line in particular: "It is our failure to become our perceived ideal that ultimately defines us and makes us unique." Wishing you a fruitful journey and destination.
Reading this, I realize it’s over before it even began
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