Hi All,
I was wondering if anyone could provide any color, examples or information on what a reasonable comp/bonus guarantee should look like as a new experienced Analyst hire (7-8 years) at a platform?
I'm in later stages with a platform, but having been burned in the past (PM had guaranteed comp and blew up), I've communicated to them that I would likely only accept an offer if I was given a bonus guarantee for the first year. Ideally I would like this as a sign-on bonus with a 12 month claw-back (though I haven't told them this part yet). Is this a reasonable ask based on anyone else's experience? Also, can anyone share numbers on what $ is reasonable to ask for? I know PMs can make in the 7 figures, but I was wondering if $400-600K is a reasonable ask for an Analyst?
Is it Citadel where "analyst" means running a scaled carve-out? Because 8 YOE would certainly fit that, if you're coming from a pedigreed single manager. In that case, I've seen $4-6m all-in guaranteed (again, for someone joining as the analyst title with 6-10 years of HF experience). There could be a 18-24 month clawback. Some gets deferred but gets invested into the fund, so it grows.
Is it ExodusPoint or something and you're joining from a small single manager or LO? Then maybe $500k-1m.
Are there guarantees if joining as a senior associate (not full analyst) from another HF?
Yes, there are. I’ve heard people joining from other HFs with 2 years of experience at said HF getting $1-1.5m guaranteed as a senior associate at Citadel.
I also struggle with this... $4-$6m sign on bonus for an Analyst at a MM? Nah. That is PM-level only type of sign on money.
You’re out of the loop then
It is the latter. But thanks a ton - this is helpful information. Do you know how the bonus is paid? The other consideration that this is also a new launch so book likely wouldn’t go live until Q4. I prefer to get it paid up front or is that something that’s very rare to do?
New launch I think you really need to push for more, from my experience. Year 1 of a new launch the team is not live for 12 months, and even once live is sub-scale, so the PNL generated for the bonus pool can be rounding error next to a real year. Depending on how late the team joins in Year 1 (Q3-Q4) you may not even be at full scale for all of Year 2.
Would be interesting to hear what people have seen in this case.
I would say your original ask of $400 - $600k is reasonable. I would be extremely surprised to hear of Senior Associates at Citadel being given a $1m+ guarantee unless it was part of an Analyst promotion in their first year.
I would also be shocked to hear of Analysts being given $4m+ guarantees as the poster above said. The highest you will likely see for sign-ons at that level would be $1m - $2m, and that would be pretty high.
Equally I know plenty of people who have joined Citadel / MLP and not been given sign ons...
Just sharing what I’ve seen, and these people have showed me their exact packages
They will be on the very top end of spectrum in that case. I don't think it is reasonable to expect $1m - 1.5m sign on if joining as a senior associate, fine there may be the odd example but they will be pretty extreme. $250 - $500k would be a reasonable ask at that level I would say.
The range you mention is definitely reasonable. But I've mostly seen it paid at end of year 1, not on signing. Usually only taken from you if fired for cause before that.
Thanks for all the input guys! Question - does the guarantee number include base? In other words should I ask for $800K all in (assuming 200 of that is base) or $600K bonus? Or should I go more aggressive and ask for $800K guarantee (excluding base)?
You should think in terms of all-in figures and your employer will likely think in those terms as well. The all-in figure is more important than the split between base/bonus, but obviously a higher base helps with daily expenses. I'd say 25th-75th %ile on base salaries at the major platforms would be $150k-250k.
I would suggest you start with $800k, but know that you'll more likely be walking away with ~ $600k unless you're bringing something special to the table and are willing to walk if you don't get the number you want.
What is standard nowadays for a signon bonus or guarantee? Seems like payouts have only gotten higher with the P72 $50mm news. Is the standard $1mm sign on +$1mm guarantee or is that too low?
I’m joining a T2 pod in UAE. The team is made of 1pm, 1 senior analyst and 2 juniors, managing +1bn book.
Base salary is $120k, is it reasonable to ask for 150k of bonus first year?
I have 2YoE, all in buyside
Hey! Would love to know more about pods in UAE. Please let me know if you can DM and chat. Thanks!
extremely reasonable
Based on what couple of connections have noted below id posit the market for a good analyst is 2-4 and associate with 1-2 year experience is 1.5-2. Take that with whatever grain of salt and yes def be more aggressive if its a new pod launch because you can get screwed pretty badly the first year
Citadel 3MM analyst
Citadel 2MM analyst
Citadel 1.5-2MM associate
Point 72 1MM associate
Point 72 1.5MM analyst
BAM 1.5-2MM associate
BAM 3-4MM analyst (from a top pedigree/SM)
Jain Global 4Mm analyst (also from good background)
lol ok
Forgot to mention these are for existing analyst getting bought from funds. Lower end data points coming from direct ibd or private equity got 500-750. Distinguish the background clearly to press ur advantage.
any idea if these people had deferred comp that got bought out?
Also whats a reasonable as for an analyst with 5YOE joining a $700MM 2-person pod?
Do you know what year 1bonus guaranteed I can expect?
I have an offer from a small team in a T2 pod in London. I have 2 years of experience in the buy side already. Base salary of £120k.
Is £150k bonus reasonable or is it too optimistic?
Expect? £0.
Oh I was far from reality then
I thought it was industry standard to have a first year bonus guarantee in the contract
You mean, it’s standard to have no clause regarding first year bonus in contract?
I think some of these are off / specific to Citadel. I recently joined an MM, have 17 experience and 10 on the buyside and unless you are getting a sleeve with near full clawbacks if you don't make P&L the days of huge analyst guarantes have faded considerably. Continue to hear Citadel is the outlier due to the brutal culture and churn at analyst level. That said, your ask is definitely reasonable.
I’m surprised with how much dispersion there is with what people think a reasonable bonus (I’m sure the MMs love this opaqueness). I think it’s pretty difficult to price the expected bonus but generally what I’ve seen so far at the analyst level (and i mean analyst in the way Citadel refers to them) is anything from 0 bonus to MSD millions.
Not sure why so many above seem to think $5m is out of the question. You get 0 if the firm is doing you a favor by giving you a seat (typically someone with loads of experience on sellside or someone from a LO). Getting a HF seat is your bonus.
On the other end of the spectrum, you have the guy who has a great track from a different MM and is just looking to jump either because he’s having a mediocre year or he can get better economics elsewhere. If he hasn’t blown up yet + has a good track of at least 3 years running his own sleeve making “decent” pnl (call it 25m per year on avg), he can probably cash in 4-5m. More if you have multiple offers and get bid up. You’re considered “plug and play” at this point and a “mini PM”.
You then have your pedigree SM guys. Those that have a murky track or claim that they have some sort of track cause they have full discretion with what they manage. These guys typically have very big books so MMs like the idea they can manage money at scale. But risk management and investment style is different. You’re not tried and tested in the MM world with a transparent track so you cant command sky high signings. But it’s really difficult for MMs to bid SM analysts for a variety of reasons so again depending on seniority. But if you were truly managing the risk (you’re the one calling the shots when to trade in and out etc), you’re also getting close to MSD mil signing. But please be real. If you’re the guy calling the shots and you indeed were successful, you would’ve got paid 7figs already at your SM. Think that’s not a bad litmus test. If you’re getting paid 5-600k at your SM, it either means you aren’t the guy managing the book or you weren’t successful so in this scenario, you’re looking at 1m or something.
I was talking about guarantee not bonus. $5mm for high performing senior analyst is still common but save for maybe Citadel I am no longer hearing about $1.5mm+ and or multi-year guarantees unless they are effectively a “guarantee” in name only.
P72 / Millennium / Baly are all doing it afaik
""guarantee” in name only - what do you mean by this?
You get a first year guarantee with some level of team / individual P&L payout hard percentage as part of deal. In a simple example where only % of your P&L, lets say you get 5%. You might have a $2mm guarantee but if you don't put up $40mm in P&L you effectively are in the hole for year two (almost akin to a high water mark). So in said hypothetical, you only put up $20mm in year 1, you get no bonus on your first $20mm P&L in year 2 and if your pod gets blow out they can often clawback the $1mm of your "guarantee" you were paid but didn't "earn" as you didn't put up enough P&L to justify it. So yes you get $2mm in year 1 but no free lunch.
The big platforms are still paying in that zip code. Think about it this way. If they spend 10 million on new PMs those PMs come with budget packages to get talented analysts and associates. The standard is 1-2 for associates and 2-5 for analyst depending on junior or senior with sleeve, YoE and PnL track record.
This is correct. Senior analysts with decent track are getting MSD 7figs.
Prob Millennium, know for a fact P72 has backed off a tad.
Are you all referring to equities? Numbers sound a little high for the asset class I’m most familiar with.
From my experience at P72 and MLP, depends on your experience and what stage your PM is. If PM is well established, long track, easier to negotiate up. Opposite if PM is new-ish, and just building team.
What can I expect as an analyst at Verition/Exodus/Schonfeld in London in terms of base and first year bonus?
I have 2 years of experience (all in buyside).
Is £120k base + £100k possible?
Yea seems fine to me in a flat / small up yr
Bump
Curious, how do numbers for credit / fixed income compare to equities at pods?
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