Passing up on a job?
Have FT offers for HF and ER. Long-term, I'd prefer to work at a HF, but I'm concerned about:
- what happens if I do poorly at the HF in my initial year(s)? What exits are there realistically?
Would ER prepare me better for a long-term investing career?
I am weighing the options.
I don't think it is crazy, but I would consider just how well known the fund is/rare the opportunity is.
If this was e.g. Viking, something everyone in the industry would know, and a super desirable seat that opens up rarely, I would urge you to strongly consider sucking up the downsides and taking the HF role.
Assuming this is a fairly generic good-quality fund with 5-10bn AUM, I think this is a reasonable decision. the BB name will make your branding more clear, and you should be able to get more HF opps in the future.
If you wash out of the HF after 2-3 years your options will basically be recruiting for more similar funds or going to business school. the ER stint would likely give you a bit more visibility into finance roles in corporate, other ER roles, plus HF recruiting.
Take all this w/ a grain of salt because I started my career at an institutional quality startup fund that got washed out and went to business school.
When it comes to deciding on research offers, the decision is not as black-and-white. Without knowing who will be your MD at BB ER or who your PM is at L/S HF, most cannot comment on your situation adequately.
Speaking of your L/S HF, depends on how good your PM as a mentor and investor, etc. If you can share more info off the record, sign up for a free call with me (in my signature) and I can help you.
ER does NOT prepare you to be better for a long-term investing career, especially long-term investing style. It does give you solid foundation in technical skill and industry expertise, both of which are valued by the buy-side. However, there is a perception hurdle to overcome for sell-siders to get to the buy-side (especially non-multi manager funds) because your opinion as a sell-sider doesn't directly translate to any money being put to work.
Sellside ER investing is not “real” investing; ur just selling your research.
that nobody reads
Genuinely curious, why do clients buy the research then?
If you're asking my opinion and if it was truly at reputable HF, it was a huge mistake. Reason being is because you can always go back and get a BB ER job from that kind of seat. There's no guarantee that this type of opportunity will happen to you again.
Honestly HF investing isn't like PE investing. You don't need the training of a bank to be a successful stock picker. The only advantage of a bank is the formal training. Though is the training really a factor considering that a reputable HF was willing to take you out of undergrad? I think if that a firm was willing to take you out of UG then you're smart enough to figure it out without the training that a bank provides. The best training for HF investing is actual investing. If you have a good mentor at the firm, they'll show you the ropes on what's important and not. The in-depth model building is less of factor at a top HF.
Lastly, making a career decision based on where your friends are is childish.
Overall, yes I think you made the wrong decision. The BB ER job will always be there, the investing seat will not.
Unfortunately I agree with the above post.
Assuming this was a legitimate multi billion dollar L/S single manager with at least an average culture and performance and not a pseudo rotational program (i.e. two years and out), imo if would be a huge mistake to choose BB ER.
The amount one can learn in BB ER is 1/10th of the learning at a HF with a track record and a real investment process (this applies to both MM and SM), and there's always some scarcity value to a multi billion AUM SM seat.
On the other hand, if this was a sub scale HF (e.g.
Take the HF job 100%, caveat it's truly a reputable fund.
You're giving up a great buyside opportunity that has better pay, hours, interesting work, and that's closer to your career goals to be a sell-side monkey essentially because you have friends in NYC? I want what you're smoking. Also BB branding doesn't matter for ER, it is dependent upon who you're working under. You're essentially trading an exit opp people at your BB would kill to have for formal training and your friends... Wild
From my undergrad, far too many people took roles just b/c they wanted to be in NYC. They had no idea what they were even taking when they weighed their options. I personally gave up living in NYC and live in a location that I definitely don't enjoy for the job (when I told someone where I lived when I was skiing, their response was "my condolences").
But the job I have now from an investment standpoint is superior. My career is leagues ahead of where it would be otherwise. And if I really can't stand to stay, leaving is pretty easy.
Prospect in IB-M&A, I think you should still take the HF offer despite the location and possible underperformance. If you're really worried about performance being a problem, here's the thing: you're probably going to suck at both jobs at first.
As for location, if you really hate where you live, you know exactly the kind of job that will get you back to NYC, BB ER or something similar to the HF. I think there's very little risk and a ton of reward associated with taking the HF job. I understand the not having friends piece. I'm admittedly dealing with that myself right now.
If you PM me, I'll be happy to talk through with you what you are both thinking and feeling. You obviously don't have to follow what this forum says, but I was in a super similar situation as you when graduating. I don't regret my decision.
What are the reputable Boston HFs today besides Baupost Finepoint Adage Bracebridge? Highfields / Convexity were big but they both shuttered. I guess that fool Gavin Baker on twitter manages a bit of money in Boston...
I was gonna say Whalerock, but then ... ...
ShawSpring hit ~$1bn AUM.
Altimeter, Aterides.
Most of Altimeter (vast majority...) is in SF now
Don't know why this site hates Gavin Baker so much in particular, have met a lot of the folks at Atreides and they're not particularly differentiated but no better/worse than your other Whale Rock/Altimeter/Tiger Cub levered beta growth investors IMO
Add Abrams to list as well for Boston HFs
HF offer seems like a clear choice but Boston really sucks
If you don't want to move to a city where you have no ties and don't know a single soul, that should not be entirely dismissed. It's hard to just build a social network from scratch, particularly if you are not part of a large class with a bunch of peers (e.g., investment banking).
People on this forum tend to be pretty hardcore, so 9/10 people will move to Antarctica if Viking had an office there. But, in the end, you will have plenty of opportunities to join the buyside after your stint in ER (plus, the fact that you already got a HF offer means that you clearly have what it takes). So I wouldn't worry too much about it.
You’re ignoring the fact that it is probably HARDER to get to the buyside after working in ER bc you’ll only be considered for seats in your sector AND you’ll have more experience than you do now. So it’s not necessarily the same, let alone easier.
You aren’t an idiot OP. Sure HF is more prestigious but if you want to be able to sleep at night soundly, know you have a comfortable job for the next five years if you want it, you made the right choice. Most of these HF guys will get blown out and they will be running back to the sell side so fast. Also the idea that Previous HF will get you to sell side in a heart beat isn’t accurate unless it’s a top top top tier. I know a recruiter who says he has a stack full of hF resumes looking for 1 equity research (associate) role.
Facts, before you make your decision you should check out this link:
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/you-work-at-a-hedge-fund
Median comp at a HF is $300k (50% of HF guys make $300k or less, only 10% ever clear $1 million and that’s at the PM level).
Of course once every 5 years or so on an incredible year for the fund you can land high six figures in comp but for all intents and purposes I’d only price in $300k a year at the associate/pre-PM level.
VPs in ER are essentially guaranteed to clear $250k - $300k with much more job stability. It is very rare to last at a HF for more than 4-5 years. Just look on LinkedIn at each fund’s median job tenure.
The biggest factor of this decision is to ask yourself how much confidence you have towards your investing ability. If you pick HF, you will need to more or less consistently beat the market (or some risk adjusted benchmark) to keep your job for more than 2 years.
Obviously, many users on this forum have extreme confidence in their ability to kill it a HF. In their eyes, ER is a role that restricts their investing superpowers and offers them less upside potential. However, it is far easier said than done to perform well at a HF. NYC vs Boston shouldn’t be a driving decision unless you have a significant other/family situation, but rather your appetite for risk. If you choose the HF route, I would strongly encourage you to consider the possibility of b-school as a parachute to help save you if you blow up.
Hedge fund gives more optionality and, at this point in your career, that is the goal.
Your hesitation screams risk-averse. Stay in ER, that's your place.
lol alot has been said so i won’t comment on OP’s decision, but take this forum’s opinions with a grain of salt. missing out on chilling, partying/raving, and having fun with your friends in your 20’s is brutal. clearly some of these people don’t have any friends so it doesn’t matter to them.
Yes, given your goals and the options, you made a mistake. However, experience in SS ER isn't irrelevant or worthless for a successful career in investing. Make the most of it and recruit for HF as early as you can.
I'm guessing this was xxx since they're the major Boston HF with a SA/FT program. If that is the case, then yes you seriously fucked up. People overstate the importance of sell-side experience and "optionality". If I were you, I would reach out to the hiring manager or one of your interviewers and say that you made a serious mistake and if the opportunity is still available, you would immediately accept.
What these sell-side firms provide you is legitimacy and a little bit of mediocre training (which is easily replicable via an online course).
Going to a good single manager HF or a UMM/MF PE firm and skipping banking is almost always the right step. There's very little inside or outside of finance you can't do if you started your career at a good HF. So many people do 2 years of IB and 2 years of PE to end up at a good single manager. You had the opportunity to learn from some of the best tech investors in the space, and you passed on it.
Your decision is tantamount to someone who wants to be in PE turning down an analyst offer from KKR/BX/Silver Lake/Bain Cap/BDT/LGP PE to work in banking. It just does not make sense.
Yeah, location sucks, but that's a short-term sacrifice in a long-term career. Jumping to a NYC SM HF would be very easy. If you decide not to reach out and ask for the job, then maybe you're not a particularly good decision-maker (which would mean you would be a bad investor) in which case you would not have been a good fit for the job making this a moot point.
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