Rates FT @ Top BB vs Intern @ Macro Fund

Have a full time offer in NY in rates trading at top 4 BB next year. Deciding whether I should consider internships at macro funds (esp. risk of not converting) as well as full-time but they seem rare. Also, disregarding the risk of not converting, how much stronger is starting career at a strong macro fund compared to doing 4/5 years at a bank then trying to move over? I've heard banks train you better + less risky but same time the rigor of funds seems appealing to motivate getting stronger.

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Starting your career in rates trading at a top 4 BB versus pursuing an internship at a macro fund comes down to weighing the trade-offs between training, risk, and long-term career goals. Here's a breakdown based on the most helpful WSO content:

  1. Training and Skill Development:

    • Banks: A top BB will provide robust training, especially in foundational skills like financial modeling, market analysis, and risk management. Banks are also a safer environment to make early mistakes and learn without the immediate pressure of PnL accountability.
    • Macro Funds: While funds may not offer the same structured training, they often have a steeper learning curve. You'll be thrown into the fire quickly, which can accelerate your development if you're prepared to adapt. However, this environment can be unforgiving for those who aren't ready.
  2. Risk of Non-Conversion:

    • Internships at macro funds carry the inherent risk of not converting to a full-time role. If you’re considering this path, you need to be confident in your ability to stand out and secure a permanent position. The risk is higher compared to starting full-time at a BB, where your role is more secure.
  3. Career Progression:

    • Starting at a Bank: Spending 4-5 years at a BB can position you well for a move to the buy-side. You'll have a solid foundation, a strong network, and a proven track record, which are all attractive to macro funds. Additionally, banks are a better place to build a reputation and hone your skills before taking on the higher stakes of a fund.
    • Starting at a Fund: If you're certain about a long-term career in macro, starting at a fund can give you a head start in building fund-specific expertise and relationships. However, the lack of structured progression and the variability in fund performance can make this path riskier.
  4. Lifestyle and Culture:

    • Funds often have a more intense and performance-driven culture compared to banks. If you thrive under pressure and are motivated by the rigor of a fund environment, this could be appealing. On the other hand, banks typically offer a more balanced entry into the industry.
  5. Long-Term Impact:

    • Starting at a strong macro fund can be advantageous if you’re confident in your ability to excel in that environment. However, the WSO dataset suggests that banks are often better for building a broad skill set and reputation early in your career, which can make transitioning to a fund smoother and less risky.

Recommendation: If you're risk-averse or unsure about your long-term goals, starting at the BB is the safer and more versatile option. It provides a strong foundation and keeps your options open for a future move to a macro fund. However, if you're confident in your passion for macro and willing to take on the risk, pursuing an internship at a fund could accelerate your path—just be prepared for the challenges of converting and succeeding in a high-pressure environment.

Sources: Megafunds starting associates 6 months earlier, https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/going-from-mm-investment-bank-to-mega-fund?customgpt=1, Anyone regret LMM/MM?, Q&A: Non-Target School to Portfolio Manager at a Top Hedge Fund – 6 Years Out of Undergrad

I'm an AI bot trained on the most helpful WSO content across 17+ years.
 

Few things.

  • No harm in applying, but nobody would fault you for enjoying your senior year and just sticking to sell-side offer
  • I think it depends on the exact fund, some of which reportedly have great training and others have close to none. I don't necessarily agree that "banks train you better": there is a ~two-week mandatory training presentations which all new joiners sit through on markets101. That's it. After that (+ exams), you join your desk and knowledge is built through looking at the same products all day constantly. Maybe other BBs were different but I wouldn't know.... Even the funds with no training will still be clients of banks, which means can pool together resources/primers/teach-in crash courses/trader knowledge/etc. The day-to-day at HF will likely get you exposure to a much wider variety of products & markets at faster rate / earlier part of your career, but you won't necessarily be as tuned in to the  market micro-structures as someone whose full-time job is market making that specific product.
  • Won't be difficult to move over later in career, at all. Rates is an in-demand skillset: people are moving between banks and to HFs all the time, at all levels. I know analysts -> MDs who move. You'll need to prove that you can think critically, have a risk-taking appetite, and don't mistake franchise P&L for risk-taking P&L (obviously the bar to entry rises the more senior you are). 
  • Depending on how quantitative you are, could try for internships at prop trading firms with macro desks, but note that macro is not their forte (yet). I believe these firms (+ a few HFs with dedicated grad training programs) are where the best trading training is by a long-shot (e.g. thinking about trade psychology, probabilistic thinking, trade sizing, risk management, etc.)
 

Hey, in the same position as OP - but for summers instead.

Appreciate your answer, but would you not say its almost two separate industries though, i.e. rates @ BB -> Macro / Disc pods, and then prop -> quant / systematic funds? 

How much leeway is there to move between the two industries, e.g. rates on the sell-side to a prop fund, or going from prop into a macro pod? 

How feasible is it to lateral  from GS/JP/MS desks in London office to the NY office? And the same for macro funds or macro pods at MMs.

 
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I think the main difference is between investing sytle: discretionary or systematic. That would moreso determine the type of fund/pod you go to rather than where you come from. People from prop-firms and banks move to the same buyside shops.

You can move from banks to prop-trading firms (or vice versa in theory, but less frequent I think). Prop-trading firms have been building out their fixed-income businesses in recent years and thus have been hiring people from banks. I assume there is a limit to this once the teams are staffed.

The top/smartest grads have been going to JS/CitSec/5R/etc type places (+ equivalent buyside training programs) for a while now; I think would be straightforward for them to go to a HF if they wanted to. However, I think they are taking lots of risk + comp already v. strong at some of those places, so less incentive to leave. 

Moving between offices is certainly possible over time, but depends on factors out of your control (i.e. people leaving/being fired in target location to open spots up for you). Also, note that the three banks you listed above span the spectrum of mobility difficulty in my opinion. On the buyside, probably less likely for a pod to move an existing (junior) employee from one region/away from the team to another unless there is a strong reason - others may disagree. Of course, you can move between regions by hopping to a new job (keeping in mind sponsorship requirements).

 

Would you mind elaborating more about the names of "HFs with dedicated grad training programs" and why macro desks at JS/CitSec/5R/etc prop trading firms provide best training experience? Appreciate your time!

 

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