Equity sell-side sales has become an absolute joke
Has anyone noticed this, but being on the buy-side, I've noticed the sell-side sales equity coverage in many big banks have become an absolute joke. No real insights and all they do is report on what stocks are moving big any given day, with zero insights on what will move the next day (which is what's actually valuable). The vast majority of sales desks that serve buy side desks now just regurgitate news headlines and report what's "ripping" or "tanking" any given day like they are some influencer/bot account on Twitter. Zero analysis, just endless noise and summary of what's "moving", "ripping", etc... and yet they can't tell you what moves tomorrow (which is what I care about, not what's already ripping today), which actually would be valuable. Sell-side equity sales has just become a colossal joke and are glorified bot accounts/news reporters that add zero actual value. I think these people should be fired they add absolutely nothing to the industry and it's very annoying because they try to trick you into trading these headlines every day. These people also don't get punished for making the wrong calls, but they gladly selectively highlight the "right" calls they made whenever a stock goes in the right direction. Very annoying.
Sell side is helpful in many cases. Also if you use them well can push your view of the stock > they tell other buyside > stock moves in your favor > you can sell before even having to see if it plays out, or force shorts to cover because they are afraid of your thesis
That’s called market manipulation and it’s illegal.
Sell side only push the views of big clients that pay them a lot. That's why I don't trust sell side pitches. 1. they don't have actual money so it's just cheap talk, and 2. you don't know what their agendas are.
I think most buy side analysts are total shit and I'm smarter than 99% of them. So naturally if sell side is pushing something I don't give a fuck.
Cool story bud you go get em tiger
knowing whats going to move tomorrow is kind of your job
You’re just shitty at your job bro you should prob go to sellside if you really think there’s no way to predict how securities trade LOL. Let’s not even get into how pods have killed it for over a decade now and by definition they ride 0.00 beta. Clown show
This. Also, everything OP said abt sellside is nothing new, was always that way.
Are you serious? It’s called sell side for a reason, and they’re not on the buyside for a reason as well.
Take it or leave it.
So how the fuck does the Buy side know what tweets will come out of the Orange clown's ass tomorrow that moves stocks up down 20% when you're on a 5% drawdown limit?
Only those with inside information / access to the White house can make money in this corrupt market right now.
Did someone fuck your sister? You sound like you need psychotherapy two years ago. Like seriously you sound very mentally ill and should definitely seek some sort of help. Hope you didn’t just get fired bc your pod hit a drawdown or something
I'm your boss. If sell side tells me what stocks to buy for tomorrow then what the hell am I paying you for? Pack your stuff and get out.
Tell me you’re shitty at your buyside job without telling me you’re shitty at your buyside job if you are truly looking to the sellside for idea generation LMAO
No PM on the street knows what stocks will move in T+1 right now.
Ever heard of Mashall Wace. They have built a $60bn business largely based on sell-side ideas.
https://www.wsj.com/finance/investing/the-billionaire-odd-couple-whose-…
Oh yes very good I agree that random NPC college grad HF analyst should definitely seek to replicate incredibly complex quantamental Eureka strategy as his go-to method of idea generation. Sounds like a reliable and sustainable process
This has always been the case to an extent but I think that you may be starting to see the "efficiencies" of AI at work here.
Don't ask the barber whether you need a haircut!
Their job: client engagement, attract flows, earn commissions = dictates their bonus. For the people they like they might even go to bat for you for in-demand management access/NDRs, tell you how to best leverage their analyst pool, where they (quietly) disagree with the house view, PB/ECM color, flag incremental takes from IR/corporate interactions pre-dissemination, gather bogeys, top 10 owner perspectives etc etc
Your job: understand what's signal vs noise, and what's mispriced to the extent that it, probabilistically, will make $PNL = your bonus.
You are not the same, and not aligned in how you make money...
Whilst I can sympathize with the frustration of low value add work they have very little incentive to spend hours uncovering an angle that's sound for you. Some push best ideas, with mixed success (just like us). Even if they have a good angle/view they are not incentivized to put that on a silver platter to everyone and blast it around the Street whilst disintermediating themselves w/o engagement that logs $ under their name. That's where 1x1 chats come in. I'd even bet some sales people tell you they agree with what they actually think is your crap thesis, just because they hope to secure your II vote.
I don't envy them. Imagine sitting there speaking to socially awkward buysiders who think they're hardo's for betting other people's capital - acting like they're not replaceable in 2 minutes. You're the 20th call of the day, and they have to sit their listening to your unoriginal thesis you're so proud of, when they had legends of industry on the line 15 minutes ago. But you gotta get your service too they tell themselves whilst looking down the list of 50 names that needs to be called today before heading home... No time for proprietary research angles for Mr Analyst running $120m of GMV under a tier 3 account.
That said, even mid sales takes can be decent barometers for what sentiment/momentum is atm, and when alpha risks degrading in one of your names.
Has anyone noticed that poker dealers are so unhelpful, they don’t even tell you what hands to play, all they do is turn the cards up. What value do they even add?
Under Trump term, fwd headline became a part of job! But that aside, at least in my sector, many good ones. KR, AR, SO, PC, etc. Not a big fan of TW and SD tho. Feel like they’re more of headline repeater with less insights than formers.
I have no idea who these acronyms are besides pc tw and sd...is it same sector
People are clowning you, and they're probably partly right but there is definitely ongoing juniorisation going on in equity sales. And that's probably affecting service levels. Lots of seniors who actually liked provided value add have left.
Totally understand the criticism and it is justified. I think the biggest problem is the incentive structure -98% of analysts are there to do corporate access (most important aspect of comp) and therefore drive their research for the benefit of the company they cover versus the investor. THIS IS ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR IPOs!!! Extremely frustrating for someone like myself who is on the sell side
That's my exact point. The criticism is justified. About 5-8 years ago, sell side coverage was at least a bit helpful - they would highlight the fundamental changes and you could actually speak with sales or equity research and they would have actionable insights. Now a lot of sales team is just sending you a list of what stocks are "ripping" (+5%, +10%, +20%, or -10%, -20% etc...) on random X or Trump headlines these days, with zero analysis and zero value (what do you expect me to do? Chase these MEME stocks)? They've become annoying news reporters with zero insights. At least if you want to highlight what's ripping, tell me what rips TOMORROW (which I can actually make money off of this), but naturally they can't.
Your job is to make money. You don’t have to engage with sellside analysts / sales people if you think they suck. Pay for whatever service helps you make pnl bro
Probably one of the funnier threads on this site
I'm a tad confused. When wasn't it exactly? 20+ years ago, maybe?
sucks when I can't outsource my job to sell-side... or is that the only reason I have a job?
Obviously. This has been the case for like a decade+ at least.
Equity sales teams are basically the illegitimate love child from a three way between someone on the events team, an administrative assistant and a NorthwesternMutual sales rep.
These people are complete imbeciles. Everyone knows it but them. The good ones are the ones that actually know it and act accordingly.
I remember I had a sales person from GS that was just a complete moron. All I needed her for was to schedule corporate access/conference 1x1, and she would just routinely be trying to pitch long/short ideas the likes of which would make a summer intern or college investment club contributor to SeekingAlpha cringe.
You’re in PE but have a GS sales person picking stocks? Or wrong title
What’s more likely that I work in PE and have an equity sales person pitching me stocks and getting me corporate access or that the holy grail of information, WSO User Profile stats aren’t up to date?
To be honest - I agree it’s not their job but it’s shit service what they’re doing. I really appreciate spec sales people that actually sit there and tell me their views on stuff. Ppl that constantly say here’s what I’m thinking about this stock for xyz reasons. They pen down their thesis on paper. And yeah sure we know you don’t have time to uncover angles he way buysiders do. But it really is far more interesting to read what your view is on a stock even if it’s not super detailed. It’s far more of a value add.
That's not even what is happening. Right now, a ton of sell side shops basically just regurgitate what's up x%, down y% pre-market, at market open, at noon, and post market close. They just report on which stocks have big moves, with no insights on what the next big move will be (which actually makes money for you). Reporting on big stock moves is utterly useless because it's dictated by the news/flavor of the day which by definition is 100% unpredictable. Yet they cannot give any insights on what the next big mover. These people should not be employed at all as they offer zero value and often try to trick you into chasing big movers which end up getting you deeper into a drawdown.
Equity sell side really sucks. The quality of the "service" has gone way down to the point that they are just summarizing stock moves rather than giving any real insights. These people should not be employed. They provide zero value to anyone.
So you are expecting them to predict the unpredictable?
Quia doloremque quas voluptatem officiis ut possimus. Ex rem aut nihil qui voluptas harum aliquam. Sequi qui et dolorem officiis. Quam fuga ad a facilis nemo.
Consequatur maxime consequatur incidunt inventore ut adipisci temporibus est. Quis est molestiae voluptatem omnis illo. Perspiciatis ut harum nam aut cupiditate incidunt cupiditate. Et maxime qui non est commodi totam nulla. Possimus corporis enim dolore possimus in. Sed libero nemo delectus iste maxime.
Ad culpa dicta odio fugit. Totam provident nam repudiandae ex ut labore. Enim reprehenderit soluta molestiae ipsum velit sint omnis. Beatae beatae dolorem incidunt tempore cum. Fuga sunt animi distinctio voluptas quia. Occaecati fugiat ratione iusto. Qui est enim velit animi.
Sit ea est dicta sed velit tempore. Iste veniam et qui sequi placeat corporis. Eos asperiores voluptas quidem mollitia illum error.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Ratione dolores et blanditiis rem voluptatem. Nihil adipisci quod praesentium fugit voluptas illum. Id omnis illum sunt ipsa. Alias dolor ducimus voluptate est consectetur iste corrupti ratione.
Vero assumenda fugit pariatur inventore sit occaecati laudantium eaque. Nisi quo id voluptatem aspernatur ab impedit. Odit est sit animi blanditiis voluptatum voluptatibus. Dolores vel quia ut amet. Deleniti animi voluptatem qui placeat molestias vel. Accusantium qui ab ea sequi quae.
Autem eum saepe consequatur hic ipsa non nobis. Facere quam dignissimos aut nihil et. Sint veritatis est numquam quisquam quam deleniti dolorem. Reprehenderit iure voluptatem labore enim. Quisquam modi eum commodi.